Multi-year deals and arbitration cases are most important. Agreed, If you happen to be a highest level major league player. Those who are looking for advice on this site do not require arbitration. They need help starting their career and signing the best possible contract. First things first, get the career started. The best thing an advisor can do is get teams to know as much good as possible about his player and create as much interest as possible before the draft. Talk to the clubs abd promote the player as much as possible. Often the negotiations take place before the draft is even held. Most never go through arbitration so high school or college players getting an agent because of that is meaningless. Do step one first. Then many years down the road you will know if you have the right guy for an arbitration case. Because arbitration won't happen for many years. Most agents don't have a lot of experience in arbitration. The easiest thing in the world is to get rid of or change agents if you need to. I don't understand all this talk about ARod, Schilling, and the others. At this point what do they have in common with your sons situation? One question I would ask is who do you represent. Unless your with a giant firm, how much time and interest will you have for my son if you are involved with lots of long term contract negotiations and arbitration cases. Will you give my son as much time as you give your client whose making you millions of dollars? If the answer is no, you are an honest man. If the answer is yes everyone is treated equally, beware.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"Multi-year deals and arbitration cases are most important. Agreed, If you happen to be a highest level major league player.Those who are looking for advice on this site do not require arbitration. They need help starting their career and signing the best possible contract. First things first, get the career started."

Isn't that what a draft prospect player aspires to be "a highest level major league player"? If not, why bother? If so, isn't it better to find an Agent who can help you with your entire career?

Also, chances are that if an Agent has experience in Arbitration & multi-year deals he also has the experience & contacts necessary to help a draft prospect get his career started. In my opinion, that's a much better choice than going with someone & hoping that when/if you make it he will have gained the necessary experience to help you. Otherwise you will be jumping from Agent to Agent to find someone who can.

"The best thing an advisor can do is get teams to know as much good as possible about his player and create as much interest as possible before the draft. Talk to the clubs abd promote the player as much as possible. Often the negotiations take place before the draft is even held."

Thanks for the advice Einstein. I never would have thought of that.

"Most never go through arbitration so high school or college players getting an agent because of that is meaningless. Do step one first. Then many years down the road you will know if you have the right guy for an arbitration case."

Wrong. See above comments.

"Most agents don't have a lot of experience in arbitration.The easiest thing in the world is to get rid of or change agents if you need to."

That's why you pick one who does have experience, so you don't have to jump from Agent to Agent if you make the right choice.

"One question I would ask is who do you represent. Unless your with a giant firm, how much time and interest will you have for my son if you are involved with lots of long term contract negotiations and arbitration cases. Will you give my son as much time as you give your client whose making you millions of dollars?"

Great question to ask. However, I disagree with your statement "If the answer is no, you are an honest man. If the answer is yes everyone is treated equally, beware." If an Agent won't take care of all his clients equally, I wouldn't touch him with a 20 foot pole.
quote:
Originally posted by pops:
Boras is the best agent.


WHY? Is it:

Because he's lost 9 of his last 10 arbitration cases?

Because he advised Kevin Millwood to turn down a 5 year $75 million contract & now the best Millwood can do is to accept arbitration from the Phillies?

Because he told Pudge Rodriguez he'll get him a 4 year $40 million contract & won't even sniff half of that?

Because he alienates EVERY team he negotiates with & reporter he talks to with his arrogant personality & blackmailing tactics?

Because he consistently uses his clients to grandstand & seek publicity for the greater good of himself?

Boras has been a GREAT recruiter. To call him a great Agent is an entirely different matter. If it were my kid, I wouldn't let Boras represent him if Scott paid him instead of him paying Scott.
today's Detroit Free Press -

"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."

"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."



lefties? - - - they just aint right!
Pudge went from the Rangers to the Marlins, got his ring, and now is only interested in money and not winning. I would not want him. Detroit will not get better by paying an aging catcher a huge amount of money to turn around a 119 loss team. It is another example of why Detroit is an awful franchise. I would hope my agent would advise to go to juco rather than sign with them.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee:
today's Detroit Free Press -

"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."

"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."

"It ain't over till it's over."

Let's wait & see if #1 the deal gets done & #2 what the real numbers are. If this turns out to be true, I'll be the first to tip my cap to the man.
quote:
Originally posted by Headfirst:
Pudge went from the Rangers to the Marlins, got his ring, and now is only interested in money and not winning. I would not want him. Detroit will not get better by paying an aging catcher a huge amount of money to turn around a 119 loss team. It is another example of why Detroit is an awful franchise. I would hope my agent would advise to go to juco rather than sign with them.


You left out a part. He is an "aging catcher" with a bad back & a million miles on his odometer. You are 1000% right about the Tigers being a three ring circus. Kind of tarnishes Dombrowski's previous image doesn't it. His talent was always in hiring good scouts & then taking credit for their work. Seems it isn't just some players that get fat & lazy with multi-year deals.
Since most people on this site have children in college or high school, I think that having a good agent when you are drafted is important. Baseball America lists the players who have signed and who their agent is, and how much the player received.

Scott Boras clients:

2000: Jason Young 2nd round--$2.750 million
Xavier Nady 2nd round--$1.1 +
major league contract.
Bobby Hill 2nd round--$1.3 million

2001: Tag Bozied--Senior drafted in 3rd round
$700 thousand
Mike Gosling--2nd round $2 million
Mark Teixeira--1st round $4.50 million
bonus with a ML contract that doubles it

2002: Jeremy Guthrie 1st round #22 $3 million
Vince Sinisi 2nd round $2.070 million


All the players above far exceeded the bonus amounts of the players taken around them in the draft, in some cases more than doubling the bonus amounts of the other players. He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has.
Voodoo, I wasn't even talking to you at all. Einstien I am not, but I'm smart enough to pick up on paranoia and insecurity in a persons character. Why do you think everyone is talking directly to you? I don't even know who you are and could care less. Did you say or not that he would not get half of that 40,000,000 four year deal. Seeing that you are an agent that acts like he knows so much about arbitration. What are the 5 major issues in every arbitration case? Also it is the Players Union and the owners that has been the most responsible for the salary structure in baseball not some players agent. For the draft Boras may or not be the best, for a major league player he for sure is one of the best. Unless making the major league teams paying the player more than his real value is bad for the player. JD Drew, ARod, etc. I thought that was the agents job. How can you be snake enough to tip your cap to someone you have cut to ribbons on an open forum. To do it as an unknown is even lower.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"Did you say or not that he would not get half of that 40,000,000 four year deal."

I did say it & until I see the deal is done & done at those numbers I'm not wrong. the $10 million/year isn't the part I really doubt, it's the 4 year guarantee for a guy WAY past the prime of his career.

"Seeing that you are an agent that acts like he knows so much about arbitration. What are the 5 major issues in every arbitration case?"

I don't just "act" like I know. Actually, there are 6 criteria used in a salary arbitration hearing:

1) Quality of the Player's contribution to his club the previous season.
2)Length & consistency of his career contributions
3)Past compensation of the Player.
4)Comparative salaries
5)Existence of any physaical or mental defects on the part of the Player
6)Recent performance record of the team he plays for.

"Einstien I am not"

Well, at least you're right about something.

"Also it is the Players Union and the owners that has been the most responsible for the salary structure in baseball not some players agent."

Not to take anything away from the MLBPA but they couldn't have accomplished the enormous escalation in Player salaries without the hard work of the Agents who have pushed the bar higher depsite the best efforts of the owners to roll salaries back.

"For the draft Boras may or not be the best, for a major league player he for sure is one of the best."

Depending on how you determine "the best", I would agree that Scott is one of us. If you leave out the whole idea of how much vs. how you get it.

"How can you be snake enough to tip your cap to someone you have cut to ribbons on an open forum."

SNAKE? It takes a man to admit when he's wrong & if Pudge gets a 4 year guaranteed deal for a present value of $40 million, I'll be man enough to admit I was wrong & tip my cap to him. Just like when I played I tipped my cap to a pitcher when he got me in a tight situation. It's called being a good sport. Einstein you are not.

"To do it as an unknown is even lower."

OK I'm tired of everyone calling for me to identify myself. I'm actually Michael Jackson.
VC aka Michael Jackson

It matters not to me because I would certainly never send any of my players to you but VC you keep digging the hole deeper and deeper for yourself in terms of credibility-- you are beginning to make a total fool of yourself

TRhit
voodoo,

You sneaked the words "present value" in there and with the max payments of $10 mill per year, there is no way you can be wrong, because the PV of the 4 $10 million payments is already less than $40.

You may not be the only Einstein in the world............
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:

OK you TORCH me for my attitude on a message board where I'm anonymous & is seen by a small segment of the Baseball community:
pops
Member
voodoo, Your attitude is one of the reasons that agents get put down so much.
pops
Member
Voodoo, Sit back and put yourself in a parents position. Read the voodoo posts and then tell your wife that you would like to have this guy represent your son. You may end up paying the kids bonus money to a divorce lawyer."

And now you're a cheerleader for THE most universally despised Agent in the game who makes statements in the NATIONAL press & on NATIONAL T.V. & Radio that makes his clients look like greedy fools for being asssociated with him?

Everyone hates this guy. I'm not even sure his Mom likes him. Tommy Tanzer(no angel himself) had to be held back from trying to kick Boras' butt at an MLBPA Agents meetin in LA a few yaer ago. There are MANY teams that tell their scouts to cross a kid off their list if they even THINK he's working with Boras.

So if as you say "Since most people on this site have children in college or high school"
Don't you think that should be taken into consideration?

Furthermore you said:

"pops Member"
"The value of an agent starts when arbitration is approaching for the young major leaguer."

Arbitration is crucial for a young player & Boras has lost 9 of his last 10. Even more important is the art of making a deal without having to go to a hearing. More often than not, because of their loathing for the man & his poor record in recent cases, teams won't negotiate with Boras on his arbitration eligible cases once figures get exchanged.

"He has his own staff of scouts and also sees the players himself. Being a good judge of talent and understanding a players real value is a talent that he has."

Big deal. Do you seriously think that he has any better idea of a players worth than his team does? If that were true, why has he lost so many cases in arbitration? This is a selling point that is so bogus as to be beyond a fantasy. How about the 100 pages of BS he sent to teams about ARod that his "staff" compiled. That must've been what impressed Tom Hicks so much right?
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
voodoo,

You sneaked the words "present value" in there and with the max payments of $10 mill per year, there is no way you can be wrong, because the PV of the 4 $10 million payments is already less than $40.

I added the words "present value" because if Pudge signs a deal like the one he had last year for $3million in '03 with $7 million deferred @ no interest, I hardly think it's fair to call that a $10 million deal because the present value of it is $9,289,000 not $10 million.

You may not be the only Einstein in the world............
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
I guess Boras is busy enough that he doesn't have time to piss his time off on message board for high school and college players...................


OK OK I have to come clean. I'm actually Dick Cheney & what with the polls being so good & all there's not much to do here in my "secure location" but listen to my pacemaker hum so I have some time to check on HS Baseball.
Voodoo. I enjoy your participation no matter what I might think about you. Its hard to give your posts any credibility without knowing who you are. If we knew who you are it might be even harder to give you any credibility. Einstien was a genius and a fool. 4 of the 5 you got right. You have been around but not enough. You failed to mention one of the most important. Now I have to think again about just how valid you are.
I may not agree with everything Voodoo/Michael/Scott/Dick (or whatever his next alias is) has to say. BUT he has made some very important points in this post that some people refuse to consider. Especially his assessments of Boras and Pudge.

If Rodriguez can get 4yrs, let alone $10 mill a year, in these times, then Detroit is surely out to lunch. They could have him for half that. Not that it's going to help them much.

And I for one would not jump to sign with an agent with no arbitration experience - I would hope that most people would expect to sign with one agent and be with him for their entire career. THere are many considerations to evaluate when assessing an agent. Experience is surely one of them. Every player drafted expects to get to the majors one day - do you want to be the first player that agent attempts to win an arbitration case with? And multi-year deals are at least as important.

"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DocBall:
"4 of the 5 you got right. You have been around but not enough. You failed to mention one of the most important. Now I have to think again about just how valid you are."

Doc, I hate to break it to you, but the 6 count 'em 6 criteria are right from the "Basic Agreement Between The 30 Major League Clubs And Major League Baseball Players Association". You can find them there on pages 17 & 18. You might want to check your facts with Sneezy, Grumpy & Bashful.

I'll post who I am as soon as I see how it is relevant to the subject & everyone else who posts here agrees to identify themselves as well.
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Voodoo,

I am not interested in your identity.

Would you just list three agencies that represent baseball players that have web sites?

I don't care if you list yourself or not.

I just like to learn more about your industry.

Please just point me in the right direction.


If you're truly interested contact the MLBPA @ 212-826-0808. Wouldn't recommend either of the groups that PCX mentioned unless you're interested in being a guppy in the Pacific Ocean.
Voodoochile, Wow, you don't think much of the other agents do you? What is your response to the bonus money that Boras has negotiated for the drafted players compared to his fellow agents? I think that many agents are jealous of Boras because he has such a top notch client list, and has embarrassed many of them at draft time by negotiating contracts that are much larger than most of the other guys.

I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him and how about Brown, Maddux and the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort. About a 100 mill for two guys that have done nothing since or very much before. Detroit may be lacking, but Boras is not, and in the tightening of the belt times that are going on right now, he may just prove his worth again.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
"Voodoochile, Wow, you don't think much of the other agents do you?"

There are a few I happen to think highly of. However your boy Boras isn't one of them.

"What is your response to the bonus money that Boras has negotiated for the drafted players compared to his fellow agents?"

He's gotten some good deals for some players, not so good deal for others. Don't forget the cost & I don't mean his commission. If your team despises your Agent what will they think of you for choosing him? Remember David Espinosa & Dane Sardinha? What about their deals?

"I think that many agents are jealous of Boras because he has such a top notch client list"

Not jealous of him at all. Enjoy being able to look myself in the mirror. Wouldn't trade places with him for Bill Gates' money. Not if I had to do what he's done to too many players.

"has embarrassed many of them at draft time by negotiating contracts that are much larger than most of the other guys."

He never embarassed any of my deals. As to the guys he has embarassed, it's almost always been at the cost of their relationship with their team. How many of his clients get scouting, coaching, broadcasting jobs with their former teams when they're done playing? Almost none because they won't forgive them for their Agents'conduct.

"I don't know what his 100 page effort did for A-Rod, but he negotiated a $250 million dollar deal for him"

That now hangs like a millstone around his neck. ARod would give $100 mill. to get out of the deal if he could.

" the two best deals of all time for Chan Ho Park and Driefort."

Can't disagree that those two are astonishing deals. Chan Hopeless & Dreifort should be naming all their kids after him. I'd like to know who he has blackmail pictures of & what they were doing in the pictures to come up with those deals.

Still wouldn't touch the guy if you were holding the 20 foot pole& paying his commission.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bee:
today's Detroit Free Press -

"The Associated Press, quoting a baseball source, reported that Rodriguez has been offered a $40-million, four-year contract by the Tigers."

"Dombrowski would neither confirm nor deny it, saying he preferred not to comment."

For another view of Pudge/Maddux/Boras check out this story:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1712521
Thanks Starzz.

I haven't had time to look at all of them yet.

Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports. I thought they usually were specialists in one sport. Maybe so within the firms.

Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues.

More to learn here than just hiring an agent.

More to it than just contract negotiaton. Might have had a tendency to do it myself. Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent. Broader area than my skill set.

It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin.............
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Starzz:
Former Observer....Very reputable.

http://business4.odc.net/athletesfirst_v255/home.asp


Are you aware of the $44.6 million judgement against this firm from the lawsuit that also put them into bankruptcy? Testimony in the trial clearly showed legal & ethical transgressions on the part of the people at the top of this firm. You may want to check http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/ for details. Look before you leap.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FormerObserver:

"Did not realize that agents operate in multiple sports."

Many try to work in multiple sports. As is the case in many fields, it usually works better for the client if you specialize. Nobody can do everything & do it as well as people who specialize in their individual areas.

"Intrigued by the impact of marketing and broadcasting issues."

Don't get blinded by someone pitching their expetise in marketing & broadcasting. First of all the number of people with true experience in those fields is small & secondly, for 99% of players the "impact of marketing and broadcasting issues." will be minimal. VERY few players in Baseball make an amount equal to 10% of their salaries off the field. For example, LeBron James' $90 million Nike deal has NO parallel in Baseball. You'd be hard pressed to find ANY player in Baseball getting 1% of that amount.

"More to it than just contract negotiaton."

Yes, but that's the "meat & potatoes" issue. Without a contract, you're a fan on the outside looking in rather than a player with a chance at a future in MLB.

"Might have had a tendency to do it myself."

HUGE mistake. You don't have the experience necessary, you don't have the contacts & most of all you can't be objective about your own flesh & blood.

"Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent."

This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.

"It really ain't time yet, so I need to keep readin............."

Good idea. You never hear someone say they made a mistake because they had TOO MUCH information.
"Notice that bbscout has advisor/agent."

This is probably an accomodation of the hoops to jump through re: NCAA BS. Call them advisors for the NCAA, call them agents for MLB,doesn't matter it's all the same thing.
----------------------------------------------


When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bbscout:
"When you have to deal with the NCAA, everything matters........especially advisor/agent"

NCAA is a "paper tiger". They know their regs are BS & would never stand up to a court challenge. Obviously you don't want your kid to be the test case. Therefore, you call your Agent an advisor. If it walks like a duck etc.

For the last 20 years, the most they have done to any kid who was "caught" or turned himself in for having an Agent was to suspend him for 10% of his games the next year. Most recent was Jeremy Sowers having to sit out 6 games his Freshman year.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×