Who is your national champion?

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Would USC be undefeated right now playing Utah's schedule?

No. They both played Oregon State and USC lost. USC needs to shut up and take care of business. Last year Stanford and this year Oregon State. I blame the coach for that.

Coach May - I just saw your last post.

You clearly see how silly this all is. Computer geeks and media nerds deciding who is the champion?
That is absurd. No one argument beats another imho.

How many "national" football powers are there in the PAC 10 btw? USC only has themselves to blame imho.

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They play a schedule that many teams in the nation would end up undefeated with.

I don't know if Mizzou or Illinois beats Alabama, but the rest of those games I'd say are winnable for both Missouri and Illinois.

I agree with you Coach May. They play too easy of a schedule.

CleavelandDad, I agree with the Pac-10 not really having anybody other than USC. So how USC claim to have such a tough schedule?

It may not matter to those who have already decided, but here's what I think. Assuming don't work in politics, and it surely don't work in sports. "That's why they play the game!"
Everyone assumed that Alabama would take care of Utah, including Alabama. Didn't work out did it?. Utah just went out and lined up against everyone on their schedule, and they walked away with all W's. In football, that's called a perfect season. Every other top ranked team in the BCS, no matter how good they were assumed to be or how tough the schedule, lost games they were expected to win. Florida, Oklahoma, USC, and Texas. Again, the assumptions didn't work out. Are there still folks out there assuming? Texas? Florida?
Pete Carroll handled this controversy with class. no pi$$ing or moaning about what should be. Carroll has my respect as a great football coach and a great person.
Utah deserves everything they can get, because they earned it all on the field. As far as Texas/Ohio St, and OU/Florida, I'm hoping to watch some more good football, but it's gonna be hard to top the excitement of "perfect."

I agree Spizzlepop, Perfect is perfect.

USC lost,
Florida Lost,
Oklahoma Lost.
Texas Lost.

They only have themselves to Blame, Right


ClevelandDad, However the Pac10 started, they ended very well.
And they have every bit the Football that any conferance in the country has.

Utah played everybody on there schedule and beat them.
Including the #1 team for 5 weeks straight in the BCS rankings.

They handed it to Alabama, convincingly to me.

EH

Sorry guys, but without getting into a long drawn out debate, strength of schedule means alot.
While I agree that "Perfect' looks very impressive, that doesn't tell the whole story. Are they a top 5 team? Probably. Are they NC worthy? Yes, if a "perfect" season is your only barometer. But if you throw in strength of schedule vs other teams and or conferences, then no, they are not. Just my opinion guys.

Thats the question.

Who decides strength of schedule??

Those that control the BCS and the BCS conferances.

Not the Utahs or Boise States of the rest of the NCAA world.

Are you going to tell me that Florida earns alot by playing Citadal.

EH

EH,

They all play non-conference patsies, but looking at the conference schedules and their conference opponents schedules, I think you can decide for yourself. You or I have no way of knowing if Utah would have went undefeated in the SEC or Big 12 South, or if Texas, Oklahoma and Florida would of went undefeated in the Mountain West. I do know that if I had to bet on it or I was trying to make an educated guess, the three would have fared better in the MW than Utah in the other conferences.

But we know how "smart" the BCS is.. remember they named Germany the winner of World War II!

One of two things-either the BCS was WRONG when they had Alabama ranked #1 or they were right about that and wrong about ranking Utah so low. Can't have it both ways.

As far as I'm concerned they can play 12 patsies in a row and if they kick the 13th teams a$$ like they did Alabama then they're No 1. Not Florida, not Oklahoma, not Texas , not USC. They all lost a game didn't they? So using all this convoluted logic how can they be ranked higher than the team that beat them????

PLAYOFF!!!

Utah did not play patsies in Non Conf.
Michigan, Oregon St., Alabama.
They tell these non BCS teams to play tougher non conf. schedules.
And when they do.
They do not get recognized for it.

As I stated earlier, no long debate here. Good points by all.

p.s Michigan was a patsy this year.

This is why we need a championship series for NCAA D1 football.
It just is time for it to happen.
EH

I grew up about a mile from the University of Utah. I am not here to claim they are number 1 but I do beg to differ with those that say "many" teams would go undefeated with their schedule. I do not think "many" teams would beat TCU. TCU is going to finish well within the top 10. No one has shown that they can run on them. Utah had a much easier time moving the ball against Alabama than they did against TCU and plenty felt Utah was lucky to win. I didn't see any need for luck against the Crimson Tide.

Utah and many other good teams have to go undefeated just to get a sniff in a BCS bowl. Even if they lose once and that loss is a close loss against a big time team the the non-BCS team has lost their chance to play in a BCS bowl. That one loss will "prove" they are not BCS worthy in the system we have. In the mean time a BCS conference champ, no matter how mediocre (2004 Pitt for instance) gets a bid.

Thank goodness Fresno St. got their chance in baseball. The WAC is not a strong baseball conference. That didn't stop Fresno from kicking butt against the big guys.

Here are the BCS Championship Game teams for each year since they started the BCS. The first team listed for each year won the game. The conference listed is the one they are in now. USC actually shared the championship one year, winning the final AP poll.

Interesting that only 5 conferences have ever participated. Also that in 11 years only 11 teams have played in the championship game. Does kind of make you wonder if only so many are even eligible.

Whether Utah is the best team or not, they're the only ones to finish the season unbeaten. They didn't beat any patsy in the last game and they looked very good doing it.

BTW, Don't people have to change there mind about the so called weak Pac 10. 5-0 in the bowls. The Big 10 on the other hand showed their lack of strength by winning just one bowl game so far. Of course, that one win came from who? The HAWKEYES! Just think, had Iowa not kicked that last second field goal to beat Penn State we would be watching Penn State play for the championship and either Oklahoma or Florida wouldn't be in it.

BCS Results

2008
Florida – SEC
Oklahoma – Big 12
2007
LSU – SEC
Ohio State – Big 10
2006
Florida – SEC
Ohio State – Big 10
2005
Texas – Big 12
USC – Pac 10
2004
USC – Pac 10
Oklahoma – Big 12
2003
LSU – SEC
Oklahoma – Big 12
2002
Ohio State – Big 10
Miami – ACC
2001
Miami – ACC
Nebraska – Big 12
2000
Oklahoma – Big 12
Florida State – ACC
1999
Florida State – ACC
Virginia Tech – ACC
1998
Tennessee – SEC
Florida State - ACC

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They didn't beat any patsy in the last game and they looked very good doing it.

Just to clarify, no one is calling Alabama a patsy.
Utah played great and are a very good team!

Regardless of what you think of Utah, their schedule or conference there is one thing I believe they have done - earn a chance to play for a national championship. Only way to do that is a playoff.

Every other sport gives each school no matter their schedule, conference or history a chance to win. Football doesn't.

Every level of football - rec league, high school, NAIA, DIII, DII, DIAA (or whatever it's called now), pro - has a playoff. DI doesn't because they say it "won't work" but yet everyone else makes it work.

There is always going to be discussion about sports in general about who is better, who should have made it and stuff like that. The problem is that we are debating over who should be the national champion instead of who should be the 16th team allowed in. There are great points for Utah and there are great points against Utah. Same can be said for Oklahoma, Florida, Texas and USC. Each of those 5 has a legitimate claim to be national champion. Best way to decide it is on the field.

06catcherdad I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this

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Coach, are you sure you're talking about football? I thought this same line of thinking went to baseball, only you can substitute the SEC for Big 10. Our western conferences, especially the Pac-10 and Big West, never get the respect they earn. Western Conferences just win college world series titles!

I was saying that the ACC and Big 10 are not very good. A few years ago when BC, VTech and Miami left the Big East there were people saying that they didn't deserve to be a BCS conference. I'm just saying that the ACC and Big 10 are both much lower than the Big East. I will say the ACC seems to be getting better.

Until you have a playoff system installed you cannot have a NATIONAL CHAMPION---yes playoff systems are flawed but at least the teams meet head to head and nobody can complain, though many will

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Regardless of what you think of Utah, their schedule or conference there is one thing I believe they have done - earn a chance to play for a national championship. Only way to do that is a playoff.

Coach I agree with you completely. It is definitely doable, but they are afraid of losing money somehow..

Bulldog and Coach,

I also agree. We can argue this and that until we are blue in the face and not change anyones mind.
The fact is, a playoff system is the only way to decide a very debatable subject and lay it to rest.
Will it ever happen, not anytime soon I'm afraid.

I've noticed that my lifelong football friends have pretty much lost interest in bowl games. Indeed, the NCAA has managed to completely ruin New Years Day. Think about it. The big sports attraction was a hockey game!!! As ratings (read: money) decrease, the NCAA will wake up and we will get a play-off. Hopefully with four meaningful games on New Years Day, although that may be well beyond wishful thinking.

They will have to determine the top 8 teams??

4 games on Christmas weekend.
2 Games on New Years weekend.
1 Championship game one week after new years.

Its doable.
EH

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USC needs to shut up and take care of business.

It's basketball season now SC!

Not just this year, but there have been other years where many thought USC was the #1 team, though they didn't play in the BCS final. I thought they were the best team the year Ohio State won the BCS.

What I have failed to notice is much complaining from them. Seems they do a great job of taking care of business and a great job of shutting up.

I think Carroll is a master at answering questions from sports writers looking for something controversial. If he thinks his team is the best or not, he always handles those questions with class and without ever down playing any other team.

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Sorry guys, but without getting into a long drawn out debate, strength of schedule means alot.
While I agree that "Perfect' looks very impressive, that doesn't tell the whole story. Are they a top 5 team? Probably. Are they NC worthy? Yes, if a "perfect" season is your only barometer. But if you throw in strength of schedule vs other teams and or conferences, then no, they are not. Just my opinion guys.

What does a tier two conference do when the power teams refuse to play them? The BCS conferences love to play the lesser teams when the team is not talented, but once they start winning, ie. Southern Miss. then they find it harder to get a game with a BCS team.

Utah beat Oregon State, TCU, BYU and Alabama. They played Michigan but it turned out to be a down year for the Wolves.

Not a super strong schedule, but those were the Nos. 4, 11, 17 and 24 teams in the final AP poll.


Trust me, if Notre Dame, for example, went undefeated with the same schedule they'd be playing Thursday night.

Further note: Florida only played three teams ranked in the final 25 and they lost to Ole Miss.

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Originally posted by GapFinder:
What does a tier two conference do when the power teams refuse to play them? The BCS conferences love to play the lesser teams when the team is not talented, but once they start winning, ie. Southern Miss. then they find it harder to get a game with a BCS team.

Great point GapFinder. This is another way for the big dogs to keep the smaller conferences from getting bigger and wanting more of the BCS money. It's a no win situation for a BCS school with a legitimate chance at a national championship to play a tough 2nd tier conference team in the regular season. If a Florida, USC or Oklahoma were to play a Southern Miss and lose then their chance to recover is gone because they lost to a weaker conference.

Great game last night. I thought Mack Brown did a great job. Jim Tressel, well... not so much.
Texas may have won that game in the third quarter. That long drive in the hurry-up O really took a toll on the Ohio Sate defense and I don't think they ever fully recovered. OSU has plenty to look forward to with Pryor, but they are really on the schnide now.

I don't want to hear any more about Texas being one play away from being undefeated. The Horns were actually one play away from going home losers last night, that play being the big fourth down conversion. They looked very strong, but far from perfect.
I still have Utah #1.

We all know that if there was an 8-team tourney any of the 8 could win it each year. Utah and Ohio State just proved it (someone proves it every year)...

Utah did what they could... they schedule Michigan probably 5 years ago; nobody knew the Big Blue would be Pale Blue that year... then they take it to Alabama...

if i had a vote I'd give it to Utah.

I still have USC because I believe they are not only the most talented team in the nation but the best. There is not one single team out there they would not be favored against if they lined up to play.

If I were a coach and I had to play USC , OU , Florida , Utah or Texas for a NC , USC would be the last team I would pick to play.

Sorry Coach, although I'm a Horn, OU would get my vote. They just seem to be running on all cylinders right now.

No argument from me on who's best Coach May. USC is definitely the best team, and I'd say that even if I wasn't a USC fan. However, the championship (in all sports) doesn't always go to the best team. In my book it goes to the most deserving team. Utah deserves it because they earned it on the field.

I like that post spizzlepop.

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There is not one single team out there they would not be favored against if they lined up to play.

That really doesn't make any difference. Sure, they were likely heavy favorites when they played Oregon State but that didn't stop the Beavers..

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There is not one single team out there they would not be favored against if they lined up to play.

I would disagree. I would think USC and OU would be a tossup on a neutral field. If I recall, OU does have the Trophy winner at quaterback. And I can't stand OU!!

Florida is favored over OU Danny.

Heck on any given day anything can happen. Thats why we need a playoff. Ole Miss beat Florida. Florida is playing for the NC. Wake Forest beat Ole Miss. Navy beat Wake Forest.

Penn State beat Oregon State. Oregon State beat USC.

USC beat Penn State.

Texas beat OU.

Maybe spizzle is right. Maybe we just need to proclaim Utah as the NC since they are the only unbeaten team left. I would rather see them win it than OU or Florida anyway. Maybe then the big boys would work harder for a playoff system?

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
No argument from me on who's best Coach May. USC is definitely the best team, and I'd say that even if I wasn't a USC fan. However, the championship (in all sports) doesn't always go to the best team. In my book it goes to the most deserving team. Utah deserves it because they earned it on the field.

I was at the Holiday Bowl when BYU beat Michigan 14-7 to win a national championship. I was not sitting in the BYU section. The general concensus in the stands was outrage BYU was going to win a national championship with it's schedule and barely beating a better than average (that year) Michigan team.

I'll give Utah credit for going 13-0. Watching them dominate Alabama was great. But I'd feel better about them being #1 if they had to beat three top ranked teams in a playoff over three weeks. I'm in agreement with Coach May, chances are in a tougher conference they would have lost a couple of games along the way. Being physically overmatched in the trenches I don't believe they would hold up over the season.

What I do like about Utah's win versus Boise State's a couple of years ago is, Utah dominated. Boise State won a shoot out on a trick play.

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Maybe then the big boys would work harder for a playoff system?

Q: Why do we have the BCS? A: BYU

I remember watching that game RJ. I remember thinking "BYU is going to win a NC and they doing it by beating an average team and they played a weak schedule as well."

I also remember the year Ga Tech shared a NC with Colorado. Both of those teams were not NC caliber teams. It just fell right for them.

So much of it is luck , schedule , favorable match ups , etc etc. Imagine what college basketball would be like if at the end of the regular season they had bowl games and then went on polls? What if college baseball was the same way? How many teams have won NC in those sports that would never have gotten in the bowl games? We would never have seen that NC State basketball team play Houston would we? Fresno State would never have accomplished what they did last year.

We are missing out on something that could be so exciting and special. An 8 team playoff would create so much excitement and the players would determine their own fate.

We can all agrue about who is the best etc forever. But the sad thing is we will never really know. And thats what is so frustrating to me.

Coach, We really need to understand what the line is all about.

When setting lines, Sheridan stresses that he’s not predicting the winner. He’s simply figuring the perception of the game with the betting public.

Also realize that this is not a neutral field as I stated, playing in Florida is worth something!