Who runs the program?

Sounds like this is a good opportunity for you to stay on the sidelines in this battle.

The schools that have this sort of "booster" or parent input are the ones I prefer to stay away from. In our instance, I had almost 10 weeks in our area when I moved here before the family moved up. It gave me a chance to research the schools and I actually chose, perhaps a lesser academic school district, but one pretty much void of all the politcal intrigue.

Great question obrady!

What you describe is almost identical to our situation. It is frustrating to say the least.

You will hear from great coaches here on the HSBBW and they will give you great answers and insight and that is good...very good actually.

But their perspective is that of a good coach with a good program...what to do with the situation that you describe and the one here?

I'm sorry, but baseball programs should be run by baseball people...if this were always the case then many, many problems like ours would disappear. Vanish!

You're right to test the water and feel your way around. You don't know at this point where the axe will fall...if the AD is absolutely a football guy then I can almost guarantee that it will be rough sledding for the baseball folks!

It is understandable that the folks who are serious about baseball are getting agitated...they know that a baseball guy, as coach, would solve most everything...so close, yet so far away!

Hang in there and be helpful and constructive...be positive...don't hand out ammo to those who would want to harm you and your son...be smart...and most importantly...keep your nose in the HSBBW!

As usual, wood-man imparts the truth (I know, he is getting a swollen head).

This site has already helped me and so many areas and my player is only a HS freshman. Stay tuned and you will gain very helpful advice.

I just hope I can learn enough to pass along things I see to the next group through!

To answer your question of: “Who runs the program?” The answer is the coach and NOT the parents. I hope the coach doesn't share the same premature negative opinion of the parents and the predestination for failure that you express. I would save my criticism until after graduation. Who knows, the team may win the state tournament and your son may be selected as the MVP of that tournament.
Fungo

I have to disagree with you on this one Fungo with the exception of who runs the program. You are absolutely correct in stating that the coach runs the program...no argument there whatsoever!

The parents and taxpayers ultimately run the school district...and if the situation is not desirable concerning the athletics at the HS then the parents have every right and duty to step in and affect the desired change.

Mind you, they must work through proper channels and be civil about it...otherwise their effort will be doomed.

But I see no reason for good, energetic, and enthusiastic baseball families to sit back and just take it from an arrogant, and uncaring Athletic Department!

I emphasize that any and all efforts to correct a situation like this must be done wisely and smartly...and it seems that some folks at obrady's school are not doing that. They will most likely not acheive their desired goal...they are working from a position of frustration and in a negative manner...most likely a losing effort!

Fight for what is right! Just be smart about it, is all!

In this case it sounds like the committee or football booster club may be running the team. When we speak of politics in high school, I don't see the coaches as the real problem. Its schools that have background committee's that corrupt the whole program. They are meadler's and nosy body's that want influence over everything that involves their kids. Some coaches are caught in the middle. I would seriously suggest, if its possible for you, to seek out another school. On some occasions the school boards will honor requests to have a student go to another school, but never on an athletic request. You would need a logistical excuse.

OBrady~

IMO Where my son plays, it seems that the summer travel/select programs are where the kids get the most exposure. That's not to say that the high schools don't have recruiters/scouts watching, it's just that they are typically watching specific prospects.

IMO high school ball is a bonus...10 hours of workouts, 2 games a week, instruction, skills, development, at bats....all a bonus. At my son's high school it seems as if the kids are what it's all about.

The coach is the coach, just like our boss is our boss...if you broach the topic as a mob, then the results will probably be as such.

Has anyone talked mono a mono with him? Have all other avenues been exhausted? What is the ultimate goal your looking for? If you were in this coach's position, how would you want the situation handled?

Our school doesn't have a committee and if it did, I would heed JT's advice:

quote:

Sounds like this is a good opportunity for you to stay on the sidelines in this battle.

Stay positive....

It sounds like "Football" runs the program. In Texas a state championship is worth 6 figures to the school and that is powerful incentive.I have heard of "baseball" coaches (really a football coach that got stuck with the duty)at football schools actually doing everything they could to make the season short(blown playoff runs), so they could get back to spring football.
Collikar is right, if your son is a prospect then his select team is what is important. If you live in an area where that is not available, then I would seriously consider moving.

Coachric:

Thanks for the insight and perspective on the situation. I hadn't really considered the impact that the football booster club has on the situation...you're probably right about it having considerable unwarrented influence.

Personally we don't have any sour grapes. Anything I can do to help at our school to get things changed will most likely be too late to impact our son who is a junior.

Our old baseball coach was a baseball guy, but he got run out of town so to speak...he handed out too much ammo to those that would throw it back at him. Too much of that improper parent involvement in that case...trust me on this one!

The new coach is nice enough really...just not a baseball guy. The HS has hired two new teachers that evidently are great baseball guys..we, the baseball families, will do what we can to get one of those two into the Varsity coaching slot...the program deserves it.

We'll be smart about it and hopefully successful.

obrady...You're in Atlanta...one of the HOTBEDS of baseball in America; and, you're afraid to get involved with parents who don't want kids SCREWED by the inept baseball/football coaches?

You have got to be kidding me.

You don't have any b...s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stand up to everyone who is an adult and screws around with kids minds/futures, whether in baseball or anything else.

I'm with the parents and the boosters and anyone else who wants to LAUNCH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

When we speak of politics in high school, I don't see the coaches as the real problem. Its schools that have background committee's that corrupt the whole program. They are meadler's and nosy body's that want influence over everything that involves their kids.

Coachric...Of course you wouldn't see it as a coaches problem.

You're a coach!

Wow Beenthere!

The control board for my entire missle defense shield just got fried! That firepower is impressive...where can I get some of that?

You, obrady and myself are all on thes same page with this one...it's just that you're apparently really battle hardened!

Remember...if you are going to slay the King, you had better be successful...obrady doesn't know who all is in the battle, let alone how well equipped they are!

gw4s,
You are allowed to disagree just like I'm allowed to respond. I will NEVER endorse a program that allows the parents and/or the booster club to evaluate the talent and to determine who plays where or when.

quote:

For example, if he likes a guy, a football guy, then that guy plays the position he wants to play, even if he leads the league in errors.

SO WHAT! Should we look at every team that happens to have a player that leads the leauge in some "negative" stat and suggest they have a parental revolt. If we do, there will be a bunch of them. Passed balls, Wild pitches, strikeouts, groundouts, lowest BA, etc.

BeenThere, I'm not suggesting that coaches are not a problem someplaces, however, when folks say politics, it usually involves behind the scenes politics. The coach usually doesn't look around and say, Billy has money, and Johnny's Dad is a great guy, so I'll play them. No sir, there are booster clubs handing out big money for $4000 infield tarps and $2500 batting tunnels, and they expect results. AD's, Football coaches who really run the schools sports programs, and YES, bad baseball coaches can turn a program into a nightmare.
Hey, you folks are like reporters, you only quote want you want to read. I did advise looking for a new school, because the source of the meddling and poltics is unkown at this time and may never be known.

IMHO taxpapers shouldn't "run" the school district anymore than they should "run" the police department.

Taxpayers have the right to vote for school board that will "run" the school district in a way that best meets the needs of all students within a budget, but that's it.

This issue is so much larger than what has been posted here. Guy coaches a team and he is not qualifed. Yup happens. The question then is why? Is it because he is a football coach first or is it because no qualified candidates applied? Reasonable question! Has this district gone through a RIF? (Reduction in Force) We just had a local basketball coach who is highly qualified lose his job because he was RIFed last night. The people that will take over have to be in the school district since they are laying off 16 teachers at the high school and eliminating the full time AD position. Can the school find qualified teaching candidates who fit the bill. Now, coach you're getting ridiculous. Am I? I was just informed yesterday that the State of Illinois just passed a measure that demands that a teacher in a classroom be "highly qualified." Guess what, under that new law, I'm not. Why? BECAUSE I GOT MY DEGREE PRIOR TO 1988!!! Anyone that recieved their degree prior to 1988 will have to take a test to keep their jobs. I've taught Advanced Placement U.S. History and Regular Trac History for 20+ years and now, ... (back to the subject) Next comes the role of the Booster Clubs. Each has an agenda. When a teaching position comes up, they are the first to approach the Principal and AD over who gets hired and what deficiencies the school district has in the coaching ranks. We only have one booster club. I like it that way. What is the history of the school and facilities? They can directly determine who applies. How active are various parents in school board meetings and volunteer programs at the school? These will determine who has the ear of the Superintendent.

Well enough. I'm a coach as well so my opinion isn't worth squat. If you and those others are determined to get rid of this sap then get after it. However, do it to his face and not behind his back. BTW, he will know those active anyway. Believe me on that one. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by Coachric:
No sir, there are booster clubs handing out big money for $4000 infield tarps and $2500 batting tunnels, and they expect results.

Coachric, this almost sounds like heaven. Of course, I buy mine but then again, no strings attached when they are used. (NO TARP but 3 cages, 2 half cages and a rolling backstop.)

There's a reason they put a fence between the Players and the Parents.
And it has nothing to do with foul balls.
The Coach plays whomever he feels like, and there's nothing any PARENT Could are Should do about it.
If the AD doesn't see that there's a problem with the win/loss record are feels its just not important.
Why do Parents think that it should be that Important.

Give me a break, Its Just Baseball.

Have a contest see which Parent could keep there mouth shut the Longest if your so Darn competitive.

obrady,

What is the parent mob going to do if they get their players in there and the players do not perform as well as the parent mob thinks they will and/or the team doesn't perform as well either?

Who is responsible now? Who takes the bullet for the failure?

If the coach is run off, is the parent mob going to hire the new one? What if he is worse than what you had?

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

theEH

I would disagree with you

"The Coach plays whomever he feels like, and there's nothing any PARENT could are should do about it."

If I want to support my local school and it's baseball program, don't I have the right to demand some accountability? It sounds like in your opinion a family should move rather than try to implement positive changes to a program.

T Bird

I say that the parents want someone with more professionalism to and dedication to the sport we love. I don't think it's as much wanting certain players to play; it's more to have solid baseball decisions made on and off the field. You wouldn't settle for a teacher who only teaches basic math to a class of advance placement students would you? These are advance placement athletes and deserve that level of coaching.

I know that sometimes, if not often, there are problems getting qualified coaches based on rules established by a principle or board member, but they could allow a layperson to be an assistant if they so desired. We have a neighboring county system that allows an expro player coach because it’s important to them.

Liberty:

quote:

Originally posted by Liberty:
IMHO taxpapers don't "run" the school district anymore than they "run" the police department.

Taxpayers have the right to vote for school board that will "run" the school district in a way that best meets the needs of all students within a budget, but that's it.

You're right of course...I just didn't extend my thoughts out as well as you have.

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
We have a neighboring county system that allows an expro player coach because it’s important to them.

This poses a problem in itself. You're looking on the other side of the fence and seeing greener grass. Unfortunately, you're not allowed through the gate.

More flies are caught with honey. Stay positive.

quote:

(My son isn’t involved in this, “yet”, in case you think it sour apples on my part)

Another good reason to see what's going to happen......

collikar,

Actually, we have several assistants who'd make GREAT head coaches. That's why they knew what changes needed to be made last year.

Fungo:

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
gw4s,
You are allowed to disagree just like I'm allowed to respond.

Abbsolutely the truth. It is the inability of some people to comprehend this basic principle of civil discourse that is really gumming up the works nowadays. I'm referring to the political situation primarily.

quote:

I will NEVER endorse a program that allows the parents and/or the booster club to evaluate the talent and to determine who plays where or when.

We're on the same page here. It was just this that screwed up our program recently.

quote:

quote:

For example, if he likes a guy, a football guy, then that guy plays the position he wants to play, even if he leads the league in errors.

Here is where we disagree. If that football player is playing for no other reason than he is a football player...then that is wrong. The coach has every right to play him for that reason...and the rest of us have every right to be upset with that type of decision. We then, through proper channels and being civil, can put in motion a plan to affect the desired coaching change...the deck may be stacked against us and we may fail, but we have every right to try. It's no different really than in any other aspect of life. Please know that I drool all over good coaches...they are very valuable and when they are doing their job right they are working extemely hard...it's not easy at all to be a good coach...that's why I respect each and every one of the good coaches here on the HSBBW.

quote:

SO WHAT! Should we look at every team that happens to have a player that leads the leauge in some "negative" stat and suggest they have a parental revolt. If we do, there will be a bunch of them. Passed balls, Wild pitches, strikeouts, groundouts, lowest BA, etc.

I agree with you here also. All sorts of negative things can happen as you have listed. That would not be good. Now if that player is leading in those negative stats because he is playing for the reasons stated above, then people will be upset...and the proper course of action has already been discussed.


We agree on most...and disagree on a little.

At our school, the parents did not run the program. And as booster parents, our sole job was to raise money for badly needed funds for improvements to make our team better. Though many parents complained to the AD because they wanted a BETTER coach to lead them to more victories and teach more skills, he is still there, where most of those players and parents moved on. I had a friend who was so incensed because her son lost his starting position, though she knew he wasn't as good, she claimed the coach ruined her sons self esteeem. She transferd him to another school, he didn't get more playing time.
I can't say what posted is right or wrong, seems like so mnay parents are so unhappy with their HS baseball programs, coaches these days, it amazes me. Those parents that complain about the HS coach, wouldn't say a bad WORD about their son's summer or fall team coach, yet they pay $$$$ to have their sons sit out, but oh so happy it is an elite team he is on, so ok to sit. What are you going to do when your son goes to college, or pro?
I may be going out on a limb here, but interesting enough I find the parents with the most complaints are the ones whose sons really lack the talent their parents think they have.

Let me tell you a story. When my son was a senior, we got a chance to go to the regionals, first time in 6 years. On friday the coach's father passed away and he had to leave town for the funeral. On monday he was not at school and 5-6 players on the team (having senioritis) cut their last class, which was HIS class, unexcused. On Tuesday am the AD called those players parents to tell them they were not to play the first regional game that evening. Rule is, you cut you don't play. Those players never thought the coach would turn them in. When my son had to pitch that night, he was missing his catcher, and two of our best hitters. We lost to a team we could have beat easily to go onto the next county level. Parents of the players were MAD at the decision to bench those players. They wanted to go higher up. They weren't mad at what their players did, amazing. Parents of the kids who worked hard all season were mad at the players who were benched for letting the whole team down. Only ONE set of parents approached my son after the game to apologize to my son. The whole county knew about it the next day. It was a bitter pill to swallow. I know of many coaches in our area who would have done nothing, just for the win, but not his coach. My son and his parents learned alot that day about what HS baseball is all about.
I only relayed this story to show how parents feel they need ot have CONTROL over every situation in HS for whatever reason. THey would have NEVER questioned thier sons summer ball coach for that decision.

obrady,
Stay out of it.

TPM~~~~

Beautiful!

Obrady.....if the coach is as incompetent as described....if his assistant coaches are rebelling....then the AD needs to be involved....IMHO.

I don't think the parents and players should be allowed to run the team, but likewise, I don't think that Assistant Coaches threatening mutiny is a situation that should be ignored. If it has reached that point....then administration needs to be involved. Let the AD earn his/her salary. An experienced AD should be able to sift through the Boosters, parents, coaches and players and come up with an objective finding. If he/she can't....then you are stuck with a bad coach for a while longer. Oops! Did I say bad and coach in the same sentence? Before I head for the foxhole.....let me add, I think it wrong for parents and players to try and run a team, just as it is wrong for imcompetence to be acceptable.....

There was a speeding problem in a neighborhood. The people in the neighborhood complained to the police about kids speeding up and down their quiet street. After numerous complaints the police decided to stake it out. Well several tickets were issued and the residents were very happy. Untill one day one of them was stopped for speeding coming home from work. Then the problem was not the kids speeding but the police for stopping the local residents that had actually made the complaint. In other words "What are these parents going to do when one of the kids sitting the bench ends up being one of theirs"? Who is going to decide who is the best players the parents? Which parents? Are the parents that complain going to make sure that all of their kids are in the line up? What if there are 10 unhappy parents? There will be 9 happy parents then another group of parents will have to take their place and replace them right? What a joke. Lets see the parents make out the line up and decide who plays or the coach is out. Are they going to hire the next coach under the assumption that he will make sure he plays their kids? Ridiculous situation. These parents are the problem. What are the parents of the kids that are playing going to do when all of a sudden their kids are riding the pine and the players of the complaining parents are now playing in front of them? Form their own group and hire their own coach to replace the other group? Good grief.

I know Coach...before you know it...we'll be having Coaches ticketed for questioning an umpire's call.....what is this world coming to?

Suggest we all go back and read Obrady's original post......

TPM:

quote:

...so mnay parents are so unhappy with their HS baseball programs, coaches these days, it amazes me. Those parents that complain about the HS coach, wouldn't say a bad WORD about their son's summer or fall team coach, yet they pay $$$$ to have their sons sit out, but oh so happy it is an elite team he is on, so ok to sit. What are you going to do when your son goes to college, or pro?
I may be going out on a limb here, but interesting enough I find the parents with the most complaints are the ones whose sons really lack the talent their parents think they have.

I think you are out on a limb with that comment because you didn't qualify it...not all parents are in that situation...perhaps most...but not all.

And the complaint here that obrady brings up is not about playing time or roster spots...it's about a baseball program being held hostage by the football program!

His HS has capable baseball guys that are asssistants and should be running the program...
why be a hostage?...why settle for mediocrity when excellence can be found
around the corner with some amount of effort?

Admit it...bad situations can and do occur...and they can be fixed...simple.


BTW...I liked the story you told. Absolutely those boys should be held accountable for their actions...they knew the risks and they took them. Their actions ended up hurting themselves and more unfortunately their teammates...

Good post the AD should meet with the Head Coach and his assistants and see what is actually going on. Are the assistants agreeing with the Head Coach and then telling the parents something else? One things for sure the assistant coaches should either work for a change in the staff outside of the public forum, resign or keep their mouths shut. If you are going to work for someone you either support them or do not work for them.

LadyNmom:

Two thumbs up on each of your last posts!
Oozing with common sense... which seems to be in such short supply these days!

Do as LadyNmom suggests...read obrady's original post.

I have changed my thoughts on football players getting preferential treatment. This season 2 "football" players made A basketball team. They were awful, they sucked!! Everyone, including me, said it was because they were on the football team and were shaking our heads.

Basketball ended last night. Guess what 2 players had, through hard work and practice, improved the most? One of them was high scorer. You guessed it!
The parents saw favoritism. The coach saw athletes with dedication.
I learned a great lesson.

Coach May:

quote:

One things for sure the assistant coaches should either work for a change in the staff outside of the public forum, resign or keep their mouths shut. If you are going to work for someone you either support them or do not work for them.

Agreed...work through proper channels in an ethical and civil manner...otherwise you are doomed!

"I personally am, kinda, in the middle. I want the program run like a baseball program, not something to do while waiting for football to come around again. But, I see a few of the parents that are fanatics. They are as much, if not more, concerned about their kid getting exposure as seeing the program advance.

Do your schools have committees, or something like it, that help keep the program on track?"


I think the above quite summed it all up for me, and to answer the question, our booster club made a complaint committee, but it got them nowhere.

sluggo:

Good story..you learned a good lesson.

Those were not only good football players, but more importantly they were good athletes!

What if the reverse had occurred?

They were good football players and horrible basketball players that showed little or no improvement during the course of the season?

What then?

If the same situation happens again, I will understand the coaches thinking. He gave them a chance to prove themselves and in this instance it worked out. They have "intangibles" and he saw that. I know it will not always work out, but at least I will see it in a different light.

TPM:

I agree that obrady should not latch onto those disgruntled parents...nothing but trouble there!

sluggo:
That's fair.