Who you know vs what you know

Who rated him high?  Yes sometimes who you know matters a little (See MLB draft there are always a handful that fit this mold) but very little.  coaches get few scholarships and will not use them on kids that can't play regardless of who their dad is.  As far as mom and dad being atheletes, look at race horses, bloodlines matter, there are always exceptions but alot of times the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  

You are also comparing different classes. Is it possible the schools that these young men verbaled to needed those positions for the 2014 class?

I don't think it matters as much in College Recruiting, because these guys are under extreme pressure to win. Now, I am not saying that if all things are equal, a coach would not take someone he knows first.  Who wouldn't?  In the pros I think it happens more, because they have 40 rounds.  They can do a favor for a friend, or take a chance on a familiar name.

You didn't tell us how big the kid is. Does he have power or the potential for power? You didn't tell us how big the parents are. The recruiting coach may see indications the kid will develop into the player his father was. Plus the kid is a two-fer. While he will probably become a pitcher or position player, going in he's a first baseman and a lefty pitcher.

College recruiters don't make decisions on stats. Stats are a brochure at best. They only invite a look. Coaches look at tools, skills and potential to play at the next level. Worrying about what happens for someone else is a waste of energy. It falls under things you have no control.

Sorry for parsing your quotes. 1) How do you know his fastball tops 79?  He may have taken a big offseason jump (trust me, I I've seen it happen).  2)  You shouldn't "push" but encourage your son to be on the best travel team (for exposure).  3) I never played college baseball or any other sport in college yet my son was recruited.  4) Stats mean nothing. 

And as RJM points out, comparing 2014 to 2015 is apples to oranges. 

The 2015 is supposedly 6'1'' 170( my son is taller-so I stretched him

to 6'2" now cause when they stand side-by side he is taller).His parents are average height. You can't go by parents all the time of course only if parents are making a point  of making themselves visible a lot to the coaches.  Which is my original reason I asked the question in my post. We stay in the background.

I only become visible after my son makes a team.

We have always told our son it is a baby step process.

Maybe we were too humble in all of this. Told him you can't get to the

MLB if you never make your high school team etc.

I checked the roster of 2015's  college-yes they could use a LHP.(which can be

said of all colleges-whatever level)

But, my point is I am sure there is another 2015 with his height

and weight and probably better skills that could have that spot too.

In regard to 2 way player-my son was told at varsity tryouts pitchers on the

HS team don't play another position and was told they don't tryout for infield etc.

When I told another coach on another team that the 2015 got to play 2 way

on the HS team- the coach told me that it usually the result of someone talking in the

coaches ear. Granted this kid has  some skills to back it up.

HS play time-press coverage-leads to invite showcases. It all had to start

with someone saying something to the initial coach or recruiters or the press.

My question is why some kids that have equal skills of others  are on the radar and the others not.

My son met with a DIII coach who recently told him everyone try outs for his team.

It doesn't matter if you are all- conference etc. but he did say that LHP pitchers

usually show up throwing 86 on average. My son isn't there yet.

If you are a 2015 parent or a 2014 parent doesn't it make anyone else disenchanted here that a 2015 throwing 79-81 at an invite showcase in August is already committed

in Nov to a DI!

I think you forgot to add in the LUCK aspect, of being in the right place at the right time and having a great performance.

LDLHP Mom: I'd suggest it might be helpful if you step back and see some of the comments you've made:

He is a good player.

I have seen better players.

This kid has some skills.

Some kids ... have equal skills of others.

I've seen others with better velocity.

If given a chance ... would be equally as good if not better.

Can you see how these comments sound a lot like what you'd hear in a scout meeting -- college or pro?

The difference is, they're scouts. When they say these things, it's usually rooted in something neither you nor I possess: unbiased knowledge and years of experience.

I appreciate your frustration, but to assume it's favoritism on the part of the decision makers ... rather than experience and a desire to win ... is a recipe for a lot of pain and frustration.

And that's OK, I suppose ... as long as you keep this perspective to yourself. If you share it with your son or others you care about, you give them built-in excuses for failure.

If the boys you're talking about are really prospects, I hope for baseball's sake you keep these opinions to yourself.

Otherwise, there's zero chance the rest of us will some day know them.

Who you know is sometimes a boost, but it's what skills you possess that is always more important. 

jp- Nice post. I especially like this part: 

The difference is, they're scouts. When they say these things, it's usually rooted in something neither you nor I possess: unbiased knowledge and years of experience.

Last I checked there is more than one roster spot available for any kid who wants to play college ball.  Why are you disenchanted?  IMHO you should be glad for the kid.  BTW size has little to do with it if you throw hard enough.  Son was 89 in h.s. as a LHP, was drafted, went D1, was drafted again, and is now pro.  He's 5'9". 

Have your son go to a qualified pitching instructor in the offseason.  Perhaps some mechanical changes can be made to bump up his velocity and refine his offspeed pitches.  Have him long-toss 5x week this offseason, lift, do band work and plyometrics.  You'll see a different kid in the spring.

Good post jp.

LDLHP Mom (?),

Here is a bit of very important advice given to you that I will strongly recommend, keep your thoughts to yourself.  Your concern should be for you/son and him only.

Luck is where hard work meets opportunity.  

The harder you work the luckier you get.  

TPM,

WOW!  Really?  What kind of response is that to someone coming here looking for advise? 

The OP is frustrated and asking anyone for some insight into how things work.  Where did she say she was saying these things to anyone her kid plays with or for?  She hasn't even discussed it with her son!  I think it's safe to say the 2015 who got a D1 offer has obviously shown something the OP doesn't see.  Sometimes you need others to point out what it is you aren't seeing.  My advice would be to have her son work that much harder and become the player that can no longer be over looked.

Cav: That's just juvenile. Why the hell didn't you come after me? I was far more blunt with the OP.

Did you even read the thread??

Advice ain't always easy. But it's still advice. And here, it's serious. 

Are you?

In the second topic which I just read the OP stated her son throws 74.  This is the problem, not who you know or exposure or size or parents with a pedigree.

74 is not even an average h.s. fastball.  Just the facts.

Just to clarify a few things.  We have never considered our son

to be D1 material or to  assume his playing is currently at any college

level. Nor does my son think he is college ready. As to the player that got D1- My son thought it was great for  that  player.

When I first came to this site I was looking for advice and guidelines.

Your recruiting guidelines spelled out quite clearly what is expected for college

recruitment at all levels. Frankly it was helpful but a little bit of a bummer when we realized how invested people are in on this and we were not ready at all.

We were thrilled when our son made varsity as a Junior after being cut his Soph year

because HE went to coach and asked him what he needed to improve on to be a

varsity player the next year.

 I was only questioning current HS players who are college level ready and on an even playing field  as their peers-why some of them are on radar and others not. Especially when they aren't falling with  in the guideline ranges. Which I know are only guidelines and there are exceptions.

 We realized personally that we started the process too late and are obviously not as talented as others and that playing in  college might not be in our son's cards. My son continues to train and works hard in hopes of making Varsity again. His FIRST goal of the upcoming  season. Baby steps.

My son doesn't complain about his playing time or bash other players.

We have taught him to own up to his own abilities and not blame his bad pitching

outings on others. He is his own worse critic. Corrects his own mistakes. Learns and moves on. He supports and likes his team mates.

We cheer for the whole team and are there even when our son doesn't pitch.

Another thought to add because I realized that people will  twist my comment and claim that because I said my son is his own worse critic that he must not be coachable by others.

My son has the upmost respect for adults especially coaches.

We have been told that by teachers, bosses(yes he works too), and coaches of other sports teams at our son's high school -sports that he doesn't even play for !.

We are told constantly what a great kid he is and how incredibly how hard working he is. The one thing that he never does his toot his own horn. Other than this post

I have never "bragged" to others about him. Our son knows how proud of him we are.

Just a real honest question: If you're hoping he makes varsity as a senior why do you think he's a prospect to play college ball? Even D3 players are typically quality high school players. A good friend of my son started for two and a half years in high school making some level of all conference two years. He has sat the bench for two years of D3 ball so far. I'm not implying your son can't get there. But he has a ways to go from 74 mph.

Just a point of reference. There was a player one year ahead of my son who was drafted out of HS. When we played them there were 20+ scouts in the stands. I thought to myself after watching him play that day "what was the big deal", there were other kids who looked as good as him. Well now three years later the kid is in the bigs and more importantly will stick. People who know baseball see things different than us biased parents. 

Why assume the worst about the poster?  HSBBW should be a welcoming place.

JP,

Yes, I read the thread and also what you wrote.  Where's the advice in telling someone to keep their mouth shut and their opinions to themselves? She said she wasn't sharing her opinion with anyone including her son.  She's frustrated with what she perceives as favoritism.  Are you going to honestly say there is no favoritism going on in the various levels of baseball our boys have been in?  It can go all the way up through HS and sometimes beyond.  It's something that has ruined entire leagues and made many kids quit the sport entirely.  I'm not saying that's the case here as it sounds like the OP's son has some work to do. I agree with you that advice isn't always easy and the truth sometimes hurts, but I think there are more constructive ways to say it.  

I agree.  Favortism has ruined the game for many.  I prefer the kid throwing 81, not 74.  And I really prefer 91 over 81.  And I know my son ruined a lot of h.s. hitters and destroyed the league's weak hitters.  Many quit in tears.

Really?

Bum, I hear you and I like the way you put it  Bottom line is what does the kid bring to the party and I agree 74 is not bringing much.  I was just stating that I've seen favoritism really hurt some good kids and help elevate some questionable ones.  That's why I mentioned earlier that the OP's son needs to get his game to a point where he can't be over looked anymore, if there's still time for that to be done.

Many of the poster's on this thread have been around long enough to be seasoned so why be such a negative Nelly or sound like a elitist. I don't think the OP was lashing out at anyone here so why not try and help her see how you see it and not give drama and be rude.

Look at the title of the original post.  "Who you know v what you know".  This implies favortism vs. talent.  Our response is a loud, resounding, brutal "talent".  If our sons happen to have talent and others don't, does that make us elitist?  Many of us (I know I did) experienced favortism in h.s. One kid off Bum, Jr's h.s. team had a dad that donated tractors, money, and was a VERY political k.a. and yes, his son made varsity ahead of mine.  But in the end, it was talent that Bum, Jr. possessed that trumped all.

This is not a case of favortism.  This is a lack of talent.  The OP can be distressed by this or come back on here next year and describe that, despite all odds, he worked his butt off and got his scholarship.  If that happens, I'll be the first to eat crow and congratulate her.

The OP needs to hear the truth, not sugarcoated b.s., IMHO.

Cav, I agree with your last post.  Work so hard that your talent can't be denied.

Running, we ARE helping her.  This is a man's game and we don't coddle.  Her energies should be focused on helping her son develop the necessary talent, rather than stew over perceived (and incorrect) unfairness.

While I will say there always seem to be a bit of nepotism in any sport, the best way to get noticed at any level is performance and hard work. Be the first at practice, the last to leave. Show what you can do and make it harder to be overlooked. If you put in the work, someone will notice.

I agree however, hard work, being a good teammate, polite, the first one to arrive and the last one to leave doesn't guarantee success if you do not have the skills needed to be successful.

I am a bit confused as to who is really posting, I got the impression from another topic started it could be the player.

Regardless, people DO get opportunities based upon who they know, don't HS/travel coaches makes phone calls all of the time to come watch a player? 

There are circumstances that happen in this business where most do not understand why player A got an offer and the better player B or C is still sitting waiting for things to happen and they are perceived as being better or just as good as. That's because that is the perception as to how one who has no clue about the business of baseball works. In this instance, I can't see how a 2015 LHP not hitting 80 got a verbal commitment to a D1, however, as stated there are lots of circumstances that we don't know that took place to make that happen. If he is a top prospect in his area there is a reason, and comparing players size by standing next to each other is just IMO ridiculous.

In my opinion when you have to create a post where 60% is about another player and the opportunities he has gotten while others didn't, well to be honest I just don't get it. If you as a player can't hit 80 but concerned about others then your time is better  spent thinking and doing what would be good for YOU as a player. As we always say worry about things you can control (yourself) and not what you can't (others in this case).

Yesterday in the grocery store I met a man who was a scout in the 80s for the Yankees who still keeps up with what is going on in college baseball as well as pro.

At the end of the discussion his words to me, "people really have NO CLUE about how difficult the business of baseball really is".

So if you come onto a website and feel that you aren't getting that warm fuzzy feeling because you or your player has been slighted, hold onto your hats folks, because you haven't seen nothin' yet.

Bum's got it right, this is a man's game, and there is no cryin' or whinin' in baseball!

That sums it up for me.  In my experience, there are vastly more "head scratchers"  going on in the draft than in top college recruiting. 

Please point out sarcasm.

Thank you.

This is a good topic, at least from the point of view of how talent is evaluated.  I am well aware of the 2014 class here in the DFW area, as I have watched almost every top player in the area play, some for many years.  As a parent and 2014 class baseball watcher, I realize I have virtually no ability to understand why some get top offers and others do not.  Sure the 6-4 pitcher throwing 90+ that has won almost every start is easy to evaluate, but many of the others are not.  I have seen big kids and average size kids that can crush the baseball not receive hardly any offers, while a kid that may be fast, but not that good of a hitter or defensive player statistically be offered by multiple top D1 universities.  Without a background in this stuff it seems very perplexing from the outside.

Can someone explain to me why stats have very little value in the scouting process, especially against top competition? 

I have a feeling you WILL have that ability after watching a few years of college (or minor league) baseball at a high concentration level.

To some degree, I felt similar to you before that.  I don't really anymore.  It now feels to me kind of analogous picking the best players out of a LL tryout way back when.

I now struggle (somewhat) with discerning between players who make it from AA/AAA to MLB and those who don't.  I suspect (hope ) in a few years that may become easier too.

Stats don't matter as much as the eye test, because stats can be deceiving. player's stats may be because of lesser competition, luck, poor fielding, etc.  For instance:  I watched several kids put up great stats during our high school season because they seemed to get pretty lucky this year.  Poorly hit little flares that seemingly always found a spot.  Poorly hit balls that a good outfielder would have caught, but the outfielder wasn't good, so the hitter got a hit.  I saw other kids this year, that didn't get so lucky.  They hit the ball hard a lot, but it always seemed the defense made a great play, or the ball was scorched right at somebody.  Scouts can tell a legitimate hitter by their mechanics.  Likewise, they can tell a bad hitter by their mechanics, and sometimes, the poor hitter may actually have better stats.

Speed could also help a poor hitter to put up better stats.

Way too many variables and something that can be manipulated.  As you know, the competition level across HS is vastly wide.  In most instances, it is impossible for college coach/RC to determine what stats were against top competition and even if so, who was keeping score?  It is usually someone who can, intentionally or otherwise, slant the numbers.  Now, in the rare instance where a HS or travel coach knows the college guy personally and he tells him player A performed X at X level and the college guy is familiar with X level, then it may be a consideration.  If a kid had several AB's at a particularly high profile event, those numbers would probably carry some merit as well.

Also, we tend to talk about them as meaning nothing.  I don't think that's completely true but they are certainly taken with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Did not see cabbagedad's post before posting mine below.  

On stats, here's my take...

Back to youth baseball.  The teams I coached often won our Pony league, thus often making me the all star coach.  I was mystified as to how my team could win the title year-after-year, yet our players (our all stars) had batting averages 1/2 of other players on lesser teams and our pitchers with ERAs well above them as well.  It woulda seemed we should have come in last place every year.  I'd like to say I was the greatest coach Pony baseball had ever seen, but I just don't think thats reality.

In HS, I did the stats for our older son's HS team for 2 years.  We came in 2nd one year and 1st the following year.  But same deal…our coach would go to the all-league meeting, stats in hand only to find out our best players were well behind others in "stats."  In fact, we would often see that a particular pitcher must have given up his only earned runs ALL YEAR LONG against our HS team…there was no other explanation for their 0.XX ERAs with only 5 runs allowed all year.  (Never could figure out how those pitchers lost more than 1 game all year while only giving up runs to OUR team?!?!  ).

I remember one dad getting angry at me for not awarding his son a "hit" when he sacrificed but due to a fielder's choice wound up safe at 1st.

At HS and below levels, stat-keepers aren't reliable…at all.  I'm not even gonna say I was "reliable" in the college and above sense…I did my best.  But who knows?

Now someone may say, 'Yeah, but I watched my son's travel team all year and Pitcher-X had a 3.50 ERA while Pitcher-Y had a 1.50 ERA…on the same team!"  I say, did Pitcher-X get the tougher assignment time and time again?  Did he usually face the toughest team?

You see, there's many things that go into HS stats.  Even college stats…where pro teams may(?) use them to evaluate.  Heck, even that AAA->MLB decision can sometimes be confusing to us fans based on the "stats."  Scouts are paid to discern the differences and if they get it right most of the time, they keep their jobs.  Same as a college coach.  If they blow it too many times, they lose their jobs.  Therefore, they're gonna rely on their own 2 eyes and years of experience more than anything else.

There are two stats that colleges rely on:  HR's and strikeouts.  The rest can be fabricated.

Just Baseball, you make a point that I didn't even think about.  When I kept score last year, and posted the Box Score on our team's site, I too had to deal with a few complaining parents.  They would request for me to change their kid's ROE to a hit.  One parent was worse than the others.  Also, when my son was in Babe Ruth, I thought a particular parent was keeping score to make sure he could influence his son's stats, i.e. all close calls seemed to be a hit for his kid.