Maybe he believes he is bigger than the game, untouchable cause he is Roger Clemens? I think the proverbial cat is way out of the bag! Maybe one day we will know the truth, then again maybe not. Until that time we all need to make up our own minds. Everyone will have somewhat a different stance, most based on whether or not you really like the athlete. Most don't like Bonds, but do you really think anyone is left out there that believes he didn't know what he put into his body? Most people knew Jordan had a gambling problem, coincidence that he retires from basketball the 1st time? Probably not. Coincidence that Roger doesn't come out to play for the Astros until after the 50th game?Probably not!
Originally posted by 2Diamonds:
Maybe he believes he is bigger than the game, untouchable cause he is Roger Clemens?
Maybe one day we will know the truth, then again maybe not. Until that time we all need to make up our own minds.
What a statement. I sure would not want you on my jury. Did you convict the Duke lacrosse team also before you heard the truth? Did you judge Andy in the same manner or is what he said not good enough for you?
His statement to his use is good enough for me! Read his book and you will understand why I believe him.
I think you should be more concerned about the two faces of Mrs. Clinton and what would happen to this country if she is elected
Sorry off topic, well maybe not
Maybe he believes he is bigger than the game, untouchable cause he is Roger Clemens?
Maybe one day we will know the truth, then again maybe not. Until that time we all need to make up our own minds.
What a statement. I sure would not want you on my jury. Did you convict the Duke lacrosse team also before you heard the truth? Did you judge Andy in the same manner or is what he said not good enough for you?
His statement to his use is good enough for me! Read his book and you will understand why I believe him.
I think you should be more concerned about the two faces of Mrs. Clinton and what would happen to this country if she is elected
Sorry off topic, well maybe not
The trouble with the performance enhancement substances is once they are in a sport, they don't leave. Doubt that? Just look at the Olympics. Sure a few are caught, but the records still are falling. Ironic that Jones admits and then the IOC is debating whether or not to give the gold to the silver medalist since she was put on probation for not showing up for a drug test at the next Olympics. Is baseball testing for diuretics? other masking agents? And what about the designer steriod(s) that they can't detect yet? Oh, and no test for HGH.
We are talking millions of dollars here. Yes, it's easy to say I wouldn't do it, but most of us are not put into that situation in our lives. Not only dollars, but to many it's the dream. Also from my limited understanding, the steroids affect your personality since the testosterone is higher than normal. Many of us had trouble with the testosterone amount we had in our late teens and early twenties (highest amount in life span). So that adds fuel to the fire.
Oh, and back to the Olympics (using that since they are supposed to have the best testing), our Superheavy weight lifter Mark Henry, a monster of a man, could not compete with the lifters from other countries. He was touted as a legitimate shot for a medal, but he reached his plateau and was about a hundred pounds off in each lift. He said he knew that he could not reach them because he would not use. Cry babying? No, he knew the truth.
Also for clarification - HGH use can cause (but maybe not, depends on individual) enlargement of the bone structure. Steroids do not cause bone structure changes. Steroids cause increased nitrogen uptake, but if the nitrogen (protein) intake is limited then there is not the additional there to cause hypertrophy of the muscles. So one could use steroids for recovery and some extra strength without necessarily increasing size - much like the weightlifters in smaller weight classes do.
Tim Robertson
We are talking millions of dollars here. Yes, it's easy to say I wouldn't do it, but most of us are not put into that situation in our lives. Not only dollars, but to many it's the dream. Also from my limited understanding, the steroids affect your personality since the testosterone is higher than normal. Many of us had trouble with the testosterone amount we had in our late teens and early twenties (highest amount in life span). So that adds fuel to the fire.
Oh, and back to the Olympics (using that since they are supposed to have the best testing), our Superheavy weight lifter Mark Henry, a monster of a man, could not compete with the lifters from other countries. He was touted as a legitimate shot for a medal, but he reached his plateau and was about a hundred pounds off in each lift. He said he knew that he could not reach them because he would not use. Cry babying? No, he knew the truth.
Also for clarification - HGH use can cause (but maybe not, depends on individual) enlargement of the bone structure. Steroids do not cause bone structure changes. Steroids cause increased nitrogen uptake, but if the nitrogen (protein) intake is limited then there is not the additional there to cause hypertrophy of the muscles. So one could use steroids for recovery and some extra strength without necessarily increasing size - much like the weightlifters in smaller weight classes do.
Tim Robertson
quote:I think you should be more concerned about the two faces of Mrs. Clinton and what would happen to this country if she is elected
Be afraid 3bd. Be very afraid. LOL
Patience. Give them a little time. My guess is if we wait a month or two a lot will come out one way or another, but people who can afford lawyers will usually be pretty cautious regardless.
you hit the nail on the head ... the remainder of your post also is sensiblequote:by Tim R: The trouble with the performance enhancement substances is once they are in a sport, they don't leave.
Do you think Clinton's on the Juice.
I know GW is??
LOL.
Anyway, They need a good PR person for all involved.
You can't spin this problem and make it go away.
You need to face up to it.
Even if your as clean as a Bird, You allowed it to happen on your watch by being and remaining silent.
For the sake of the game.
EH
I know GW is??
LOL.
Anyway, They need a good PR person for all involved.
You can't spin this problem and make it go away.
You need to face up to it.
Even if your as clean as a Bird, You allowed it to happen on your watch by being and remaining silent.
For the sake of the game.
EH
Clemens Speech Canceled
The Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association cancelled an appearance by Roger Clemens, according to a report by the Houston Chronicle.
Officers of the association spent the weekend reviewing the situation before concluding Clemens "was an inappropriate influencer to baseball coaches and students alike."
The report says Clemens was scheduled to be the keynote speaker on Jan. 12, with the topic being "my vigorous workout, how I played so long [in professional baseball]."
MLB.com News
The Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association cancelled an appearance by Roger Clemens, according to a report by the Houston Chronicle.
Officers of the association spent the weekend reviewing the situation before concluding Clemens "was an inappropriate influencer to baseball coaches and students alike."
The report says Clemens was scheduled to be the keynote speaker on Jan. 12, with the topic being "my vigorous workout, how I played so long [in professional baseball]."
MLB.com News
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dad04:
Clemens Speech Canceled
with the topic being "my vigorous workout, how I played so long [in professional baseball]."
Although complete diagrams and illustrations on how to fill a needle and picking the right injection site will soon be available online for $9.95
Clemens Speech Canceled
with the topic being "my vigorous workout, how I played so long [in professional baseball]."
Although complete diagrams and illustrations on how to fill a needle and picking the right injection site will soon be available online for $9.95
Now that sends a message. We are at day 5 and counting. He has become the butt of numerous jokes and even some sarcastic comments from the talking heads on ESPN. Now he is being treated like this by the High School Coaches. Step up and tell us the truth we can handle it.
Befoe anyone starts feeling sorry for the treatment of Clemens, Petite, et al, just remember, they did it to themselves with their support of their union representatives fighting every single attempt at testing. Specifically regarding Petite's non-denial denial, to paraphrase the church-lady, "how convenient!"
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
Now that sends a message. We are at day 5 and counting. He has become the butt of numerous jokes and even some sarcastic comments from the talking heads on ESPN. Now he is being treated like this by the High School Coaches. Step up and tell us the truth we can handle it.
If the story had a happy ending, it would be history already.
DAD04
Make sure you know thereof you speak !!!!
Make sure you know thereof you speak !!!!
Its easy for those of us not in the hot seat to come up with all kinds of speculation as to why Clemens has not addressed issues the way that some of us think he should.
He's human and he has a big piece of problem on his plate.
I'm sure he, his family, his lawyers, etc. are all trying to deal with this, the best way they know how.
Not taking sides,...and dont know the man personally,....but do hope that he gets treated fairly and just.
If he did wrong, he knows it. It will all come out in the wash.
The issue is big. The problem is big.
It will take time for ALL of the truth to come out.
I'm all for if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck,....its probbaly a duck,..but I'm not going to call it something else, until I know for sure.
Living under a cloud of doubt can be quite painful, in and of itself.
How quickly the bashing begins.
He's human and he has a big piece of problem on his plate.
I'm sure he, his family, his lawyers, etc. are all trying to deal with this, the best way they know how.
Not taking sides,...and dont know the man personally,....but do hope that he gets treated fairly and just.
If he did wrong, he knows it. It will all come out in the wash.
The issue is big. The problem is big.
It will take time for ALL of the truth to come out.
I'm all for if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck,....its probbaly a duck,..but I'm not going to call it something else, until I know for sure.
Living under a cloud of doubt can be quite painful, in and of itself.
quote:He has become the butt of numerous jokes and even some sarcastic comments from the talking heads on ESPN.
How quickly the bashing begins.
Yep t r I'm afraid. I'm also not as naive to believe that the ped problems in mlb is not a whole lot bigger than the names brought out in this report. Roger, judging by the posts on this site in the last few days is guilty of public opinion.The story of his longevity and greatness has been compromised and no one including him need look any further than the mirror.
And hey wasn't W one of the owners when Jose C. was with the rangers?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
DAD04
Make sure you know thereof you speak !!!!
I didn't cancel his keynote speech with the Texas HS Baseball coaches Association. The coaches did. Take it up with them and their bosses. Maybe they will reconsider if you call them.
* For more information contact THSBCA President,
Jim Long at (979) 277-6570 Ext. 3121
or
Rex Sanders at the new THSBCA office
2114 Southwood
College Station,Tx. 77840
979)694-2934.
I have never used steriods or HGH, lied about it or proclaim their wonderment or healing qualities, but if I'm a bad person for it, please just tell me that, and be done with it.
I hope I am proven wrong. At this point, what reasonable conclusion can a normal person make? His hometown high school coaches are running away. His teammate Lance Berkman pleaded with him in the Houston newspaper today to make a statement immediately or the Astro teammates would run away.
Sorry post above was for 3 boys dad not tim robertson
Dated December 18, 2007
NEW YORK - Roger Clemens denied allegations by his former trainer that he took performance-enhancing drugs, calling them "a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take."
ADVERTISEMENT
The accusations against the seven-time Cy Young Award winner from his former trainer, Brian McNamee, were contained in last week's Mitchell Report. Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell said McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Toronto Blue Jays, and steroids and human growth hormone in 2000 and 2001, while with the New York Yankees.
"I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life," Clemens said Tuesday in a statement issued through his agent, Randy Hendricks. "Those substances represent a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take.
"I am disappointed that my 25 years in public life have apparently not earned me the benefit of the doubt, but I understand that Senator Mitchell's report has raised many serious questions. I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."
Another McNamee client, Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, said last weekend that he took HGH twice while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. Mitchell said McNamee told him he injected Pettitte with HGH two-to-four times that year.
Baseball players and owners didn't have an agreement banning steroids until September 2002. They banned HGH in January 2005.
------------------
Are you satisfied?
NEW YORK - Roger Clemens denied allegations by his former trainer that he took performance-enhancing drugs, calling them "a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take."
ADVERTISEMENT
The accusations against the seven-time Cy Young Award winner from his former trainer, Brian McNamee, were contained in last week's Mitchell Report. Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell said McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Toronto Blue Jays, and steroids and human growth hormone in 2000 and 2001, while with the New York Yankees.
"I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life," Clemens said Tuesday in a statement issued through his agent, Randy Hendricks. "Those substances represent a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take.
"I am disappointed that my 25 years in public life have apparently not earned me the benefit of the doubt, but I understand that Senator Mitchell's report has raised many serious questions. I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."
Another McNamee client, Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, said last weekend that he took HGH twice while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. Mitchell said McNamee told him he injected Pettitte with HGH two-to-four times that year.
Baseball players and owners didn't have an agreement banning steroids until September 2002. They banned HGH in January 2005.
------------------
Are you satisfied?
Given recent history, obviously more will be required to clear his name. No one in baseball will ever forget Raffy Palmiero wagging his finger at Congress, snarling the same, exact thing.
It's gonna be a he said I said type of thing, finger pointing and a beleive who you want to beleive dilemma.
Any player that is suspect and says he didn't use will really open up a bigger can of worms if along the way some of his former teammates will talk to save their hides.
You will never get any player (beside the Canseco types) to rat on another. That's why we have this problem. It's a brotherhood, a bond they will not break between them, even if they realize what one is doing is wrong.
I think it's time to set some ground rules (MLB, players union and the government and move forward).
Any player that is suspect and says he didn't use will really open up a bigger can of worms if along the way some of his former teammates will talk to save their hides.
You will never get any player (beside the Canseco types) to rat on another. That's why we have this problem. It's a brotherhood, a bond they will not break between them, even if they realize what one is doing is wrong.
I think it's time to set some ground rules (MLB, players union and the government and move forward).
pg
i found this about hgh.
http://www.hgh9.com/
this one is steroids.
http://www.hgh9.com/
so much info you can't believe it. and probably shouldn't.
i found this about hgh.
http://www.hgh9.com/
this one is steroids.
http://www.hgh9.com/
so much info you can't believe it. and probably shouldn't.
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
Dated December 18, 2007
NEW YORK - Roger Clemens denied allegations by his former trainer that he took performance-enhancing drugs, calling them "a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take."
I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."
OJ
As part of his plea agreement, Clemens trainer Brian McNamee is under threat of federal felony prosecution for perjury if any of his statements to the feds, later reproduced in the Mitchell Report are found to be NOT true. He will probably go to jail if he lied.
I am glad that Roger finally said something.
He is saying he didnt do any of the stuff - ever.
I hope that he is telling the truth.
He is saying he didnt do any of the stuff - ever.
I hope that he is telling the truth.
Walk like an Egyption.
Roger's in DeNile.
Even if he did not take them.
He would be better off admitting that it was prevelant and wide spread.
And that Baseball should be cleaned up for the sake of the Game.
EH
Roger's in DeNile.
Even if he did not take them.
He would be better off admitting that it was prevelant and wide spread.
And that Baseball should be cleaned up for the sake of the Game.
EH
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
Dated December 18, 2007
NEW YORK - Roger Clemens denied allegations by his former trainer that he took performance-enhancing drugs, calling them "a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take."
ADVERTISEMENT
The accusations against the seven-time Cy Young Award winner from his former trainer, Brian McNamee, were contained in last week's Mitchell Report. Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell said McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Toronto Blue Jays, and steroids and human growth hormone in 2000 and 2001, while with the New York Yankees.
"I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life," Clemens said Tuesday in a statement issued through his agent, Randy Hendricks. "Those substances represent a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take.
"I am disappointed that my 25 years in public life have apparently not earned me the benefit of the doubt, but I understand that Senator Mitchell's report has raised many serious questions. I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment."
Another McNamee client, Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, said last weekend that he took HGH twice while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. Mitchell said McNamee told him he injected Pettitte with HGH two-to-four times that year.
Baseball players and owners didn't have an agreement banning steroids until September 2002. They banned HGH in January 2005.
------------------
Are you satisfied?
I'm hardly satsified with a hand written prepared statement that was delivered by his agent, Randy Hendricks (another person who by the way got his cut from Rocket Juice's inflated salary). Perhaps Roger's testicles are more shrunken than ever before. Too bad he can't show his non-performance enhancing drug using face in public anymore.
At the very least he could give the weak watered down apology that some of the others are giving. If he's innocent as he claims to be, the stud should be raising all kinds of heck if his clean reputation was being tarnished. Let him rot for all I care. Take the money and run, Roger. That will be his legacy.
It's a legacy thing. Not that any one us should really care, but I'm sure Roger thought it out clearly in terms of what's in Roger's best interest for Roger's legacy and Roger's hopes of his own wing in HOF and Roger decided that Nixon's approach was the best way to handle things.
Much more importantly imo, on the radio today was a report that despite MLB spending $ 500,000 trying to get a urin test for HGH, the prognosis isn't good for one. They are not far removed from an effective blood test however, but the players are blocking any attempt at one due to privacy and personal rights issues. The players also say the science isn't there yet so we need to wait. Doesn't it sound like the tobacco industry's position on the dangers of smoking?
Please let's not hear any more about the poor unfortunate few who've been nabbed and about the rights of the players. This position continues to be used and abused to thwart legitimate testing programs. This report has changed nothing except the battleground.
Much more importantly imo, on the radio today was a report that despite MLB spending $ 500,000 trying to get a urin test for HGH, the prognosis isn't good for one. They are not far removed from an effective blood test however, but the players are blocking any attempt at one due to privacy and personal rights issues. The players also say the science isn't there yet so we need to wait. Doesn't it sound like the tobacco industry's position on the dangers of smoking?
Please let's not hear any more about the poor unfortunate few who've been nabbed and about the rights of the players. This position continues to be used and abused to thwart legitimate testing programs. This report has changed nothing except the battleground.
"If Roger Clemens is innocent like he says he is, he will settle it in the courts"
No chance Roger will take this route, even though he can afford it and win big money settlement for these so called lies about him.
Roger Clemens will not take this to court because he is so guiltyand would loose!!!!
No chance Roger will take this route, even though he can afford it and win big money settlement for these so called lies about him.
Roger Clemens will not take this to court because he is so guiltyand would loose!!!!
ESPN just did a poll, 73% of people in America who responded believe that Clemens is NOT telling the truth. INTERESTING!!!
He will most likely be invited to testify in hearings, under oath to the U.S. Congress next month. That should be interesting. If he doesn't show up or forgets how to speak english, that would not look good.
quote:Originally posted by deldad:
ESPN just did a poll, 73% of people in America who responded believe that Clemens is NOT telling the truth. INTERESTING!!!
Did they say who made up the 27%? I have some ocean front property in Arizona that is for sale and could use a few extra buyers.
As once said in Angels in the Outfield - "It could happen." 
It was The Rockets family who made up the 27%.. 
Roidger Clemens says that he never used substances that were on the MLB banned list.
A non-statement if I ever saw one.
A non-statement if I ever saw one.
I find it extremely interesting that Mariano Rivera has spoken out in support of Pettite..but unless I missed it, he didn't say a word about Clemens.
Seems odd that he'd speak favorably of Pettite, a guy that has at least admitted that he used HGH..even though I highly doubt the "I only used it once or twice" spin...while he seems to have completely ignored Roger.
Maybe Mariano knows something...
Seems odd that he'd speak favorably of Pettite, a guy that has at least admitted that he used HGH..even though I highly doubt the "I only used it once or twice" spin...while he seems to have completely ignored Roger.
Maybe Mariano knows something...
quote:Originally posted by Quincy:
Roidger Clemens says that he never used substances that were on the MLB banned list.
A non-statement if I ever saw one.
Excellent point. I thought so when I read his statement. He supposedly was seen using by McNamee before steriods were banned in 2003.
We may very well have heard the last from him, his lawyers and agents, on the subject. I'd be shocked to see him questioned by Congress. I don't think it happens.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
I am glad that Roger finally said something.
He is saying he didnt do any of the stuff - ever.
I hope that he is telling the truth.
I am answering my own quote - LOL
Personally - I think Clemens is a total liar.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
I am glad that Roger finally said something.
He is saying he didnt do any of the stuff - ever.
I hope that he is telling the truth.
I am answering my own quote - LOL
Personally - I think Clemens is a total liar.
I don't know for sure. My heart wants this to be some Agatha Christie plot twisting whodunnit mystery, with Brian McNamee turning out to be Bud Selig and Marge Schotz' love child (tragic visual), brainwashed to get The Rocket. My head agrees with you. To say it is disapointing is an understatement.
I read that the Texas HS Baseball Coaches Association was reconsidering having RC address their annual convention next month with a keynote speach, after cancelling him. I wrote the association president, apologizing for butting in, but asking them to considier have Roger address the group later, after questions have been answered. Having him address coaches now on "My workouts; How I pitched so long in the big leagues." would be counter productive to cleaning up the game.