Heres just one scenario that happened with one of our kids where he recieved a scholarship to a Div I program where the coach never saw him play. Area scout comes to an Easter Tourney that we are playing in. Area scout is a long time friend and former teamate of the Head Coach of this University that gave the scholarship. Area scout sees our kid play in two games and is very impressed with him. He tells me that he loves the kid and feels that he would be a perfect fit at the school. He calls the Head Coach and tells him about the player. At our next practice the Assistant Head Coach shows up and offers at the practice. Now this head coach never saw the kid play not once. But he knows that the scout is not going to tell him the kid is a player and put his reputation on the line for a kid that can not play. The player signs and excells for four years. Starts as a Freshman and ends up being the closer his Junior and Senior year. Another example - We have a kid that signs with a School and the Coach sees him play and comes and watches our practices and we become pretty close baseball friends. He tells me that he admires the way we run our program and the kid that he signs not only does a great job for him but he loves the way he approaches the game. Two years later I call him and tell him about another player. He asks me if he is as good as the last kid we sent him. I tell him the truth of course and tell him that he is probaly a better player and just as good a kid. Coach comes down a couple of weeks later and offers a scholarship without ever seeing him play a game. This kid also did a great job for him. Over the years you build a great repore with coaches at the college level by being honest and doing things the right way. You build a reputation and you dont do anything to tarnish it because you dont want to hurt the deserving kids. The vast majority of the time players are seen many times by college coaches before they are offered. But my point is sometimes it does happen. But I am aware of High School coaches that their word about a player can hurt him more than help him because they have a bad reputation. And everyone knows who they are believe me. Kids that go to showcases and play on quality summer and fall teams get seen by alot of college coaches. It is a great advantage for the players that are capable of playing at the next level. It also will expose the ones that are not.
quote:
I've seen situations where a kid received an "offer" from a school where the HS coach knew the college coach and a 10% offer was made to an out of state school. Both coaches knew it wouldn't work for the family, but both guys had done what they thought they had to do to make everyone happy.HS coach covers his bases with the family...college coach does his buddy a soild by offering.
Then again, some 10% offers are signed immediately since mom and dad don't need the financial help and the scholarship "offer" was all that was required to satisfy them. The papers still report the signing of the LOI regardless of the award.
quote:
Parents are always amazed at the huge number of kids who can play the game well at showcase tournaments. They often ignore the fact that coaches in attendance normally arrive with an idea of who they are there to see, and receive further intelligence when they get there. Trying to stand out in the crowd on your own can be pretty tough in most instances.
So true, rbinaz...............................
Just in order to clear up any misconceptions...
The title of this thread "You don't have to be that good to get a scholarship" Could be very misleading to many young players and parents.
Talent is always the #1 ingredient and can not be replaced no matter who one might know.
It's odd that you never hear parents of the very best prospects complaining about the politics of baseball.
A player needs to have the ability to over come any politics involved rather than spend their time complaining about them.
The title of this thread "You don't have to be that good to get a scholarship" Could be very misleading to many young players and parents.
Talent is always the #1 ingredient and can not be replaced no matter who one might know.
It's odd that you never hear parents of the very best prospects complaining about the politics of baseball.
A player needs to have the ability to over come any politics involved rather than spend their time complaining about them.
I've known of no players locally that received a scholly that weren't good players. I have known some kids that could have played somewhere, but due to various reasons, they didn't receive money. PG staff is right, complaining never helps any scenario - work, ball, home..... Do something about the situation to make it better if you don't like it. People have to pick themselves up every day all over this earth - life isn't easy and neither is getting a college scholarship.
quote:
It's odd that you never hear parents of the very best prospects complaining about the politics of baseball.
PG,
But you know those who do not complain are the parents/players that are responsible for holding little johnnie back. If those kids did not work so hard to get where they are the others would have the same opportunity.
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:quote:
I've seen situations where a kid received an "offer" from a school where the HS coach knew the college coach and a 10% offer was made to an out of state school. Both coaches knew it wouldn't work for the family, but both guys had done what they thought they had to do to make everyone happy.HS coach covers his bases with the family...college coach does his buddy a soild by offering.
Then again, some 10% offers are signed immediately since mom and dad don't need the financial help and the scholarship "offer" was all that was required to satisfy them. The papers still report the signing of the LOI regardless of the award.quote:
Parents are always amazed at the huge number of kids who can play the game well at showcase tournaments. They often ignore the fact that coaches in attendance normally arrive with an idea of who they are there to see, and receive further intelligence when they get there. Trying to stand out in the crowd on your own can be pretty tough in most instances.
So true, rbinaz...............................
PG I agree. However, I do think there are circumstances where two players of equal abilities and academic aptitude can experience different responses from schools due to other factors:
1) The reputation and profile-level of his high school team.
2) Whether he has been active in the showcase and camp circuit.
Ultimately talent wins out in the end.
However, all players aren't lucky enough to have discovered resources such as Bob's recruiting timeline and learned of the importance of events such as PG until later in the game.
quote:
However, all players aren't lucky enough to have discovered resources such as Bob's recruiting timeline and learned of the importance of events such as PG until later in the game.
Maybe "luck" is not the issue rather than parents that do not take a proactive approach. I see your point, however, when you go out to look for a car or a house, do you not research in order to get the right fit and the best deal? I would think that with a kid involved that has talent, you would be right on top of the situation.
PGStaff-
Since most of my colleagues are going off in a thousand different directions, let me get back to your original point:
1- I think your order is a bit off. Can't imagine that local fans have more credibility than coaches - unless you are talking about some really garbage programs. Other than that, you are exactly right...parents are never trusted as sources by any coaches that I know (of their OWN kids, I mean), and recruiting services are a waste of money, as most college coaches distribute that "bought advertising" in the circular file pretty quickly.
2- I think #2 is more dangerous long-term, because he's crying wolf and is endangering the chances of other kids down the road.
Since most of my colleagues are going off in a thousand different directions, let me get back to your original point:
1- I think your order is a bit off. Can't imagine that local fans have more credibility than coaches - unless you are talking about some really garbage programs. Other than that, you are exactly right...parents are never trusted as sources by any coaches that I know (of their OWN kids, I mean), and recruiting services are a waste of money, as most college coaches distribute that "bought advertising" in the circular file pretty quickly.
2- I think #2 is more dangerous long-term, because he's crying wolf and is endangering the chances of other kids down the road.
quote:
Originally posted by Bizazz:quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:quote:
I've seen situations where a kid received an "offer" from a school where the HS coach knew the college coach and a 10% offer was made to an out of state school. Both coaches knew it wouldn't work for the family, but both guys had done what they thought they had to do to make everyone happy.HS coach covers his bases with the family...college coach does his buddy a soild by offering.
Then again, some 10% offers are signed immediately since mom and dad don't need the financial help and the scholarship "offer" was all that was required to satisfy them. The papers still report the signing of the LOI regardless of the award.quote:
Parents are always amazed at the huge number of kids who can play the game well at showcase tournaments. They often ignore the fact that coaches in attendance normally arrive with an idea of who they are there to see, and receive further intelligence when they get there. Trying to stand out in the crowd on your own can be pretty tough in most instances.
So true, rbinaz...............................
PG I agree. However, I do think there are circumstances where two players of equal abilities and academic aptitude can experience different responses from schools due to other factors:
1) The reputation and profile-level of his high school team.
2) Whether he has been active in the showcase and camp circuit.
Ultimately talent wins out in the end.
However, all players aren't lucky enough to have discovered resources such as Bob's recruiting timeline and learned of the importance of events such as PG until later in the game.
I should have used an adjective such as "fortunate or prepared" rather than "lucky". My point being that everyone doesn't start at the same level in terms of knowing the best way to promote a player. Yes, it's the parent's and/or player's responsibility to get their name out there. But, it's possible for those players and parents to be ignorant about some of the resources that are available to them.
Talent gives you the ability to play and exposure can give you the opportunity to play.
Coach Knight,
I have to agree, it was kind of stupid on my part adding Local Fans to the list. Sorry about that!
Anyway, what I meant was unbiased fans who follow baseball very closely in their area. Obviously, the majority of fans would not be considered unbiased.
At any rate, be it HS coaches, Fans or anyone else giving info, you soon find out who you can rely on and who you can't.
I have to agree, it was kind of stupid on my part adding Local Fans to the list. Sorry about that!
Anyway, what I meant was unbiased fans who follow baseball very closely in their area. Obviously, the majority of fans would not be considered unbiased.
At any rate, be it HS coaches, Fans or anyone else giving info, you soon find out who you can rely on and who you can't.
PG- the part about the "parents" made me laugh! I remember when my son first touched that "magic 90". My husband was at the game out of town and called to tell me. My first question was "who had the gun, because if it was you , then you know it doesn't count don't you! 
Luckily for us, it was a guy a few rows down, so we could celebrate for real! 
Luckily for us, it was a guy a few rows down, so we could celebrate for real!
Not surprising at all, happens all the time. My son was offered a full scholarship to (at the time) the nation's #1 ranked NJCAA junior college. None of the coaching staff had ever seen my son in person, much less seen him play. They knew of him by reputation .... all it took was the recommendation of a professional scout that they knew and whose opinion they valued.
Same thing happens at the highest levels of college baseball. Not unusual.
Same thing happens at the highest levels of college baseball. Not unusual.
hsbbweb posted:
"all it took was the recommendation of a professional scout that they knew and whose opinion they valued"
Still learning about the whole recruiting process so do forgive me if I am posing a ridiculous question here but are there actually professional scouts whose opinions aren't valued by college coaches/recruiters?
"all it took was the recommendation of a professional scout that they knew and whose opinion they valued"
Still learning about the whole recruiting process so do forgive me if I am posing a ridiculous question here but are there actually professional scouts whose opinions aren't valued by college coaches/recruiters?
MTO7LHP,
My observation is that your quote needed some emphasis.
that they knew and whose opinion they valued.
Sure, there are professional scouts whose opinions aren't valued by college coaches/recruiters.
But professional scouts that aren't very good aren't professional scouts very long.
They get paid mainly on production.
My observation is that your quote needed some emphasis.
that they knew and whose opinion they valued.
Sure, there are professional scouts whose opinions aren't valued by college coaches/recruiters.
But professional scouts that aren't very good aren't professional scouts very long.
They get paid mainly on production.
FormerObserver,
Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I was trying to ask.
I understand some scouts recommendations may carry more weight than others, but the fact that an individual has reached pro scout status would indicate to me that his professional opinion should carry some weight and it would surprise me to hear that there are actually scouts out there who's opinions would simply have no value to a particular coach/recruiter.
Perhaps I wasn't clear on what I was trying to ask.
I understand some scouts recommendations may carry more weight than others, but the fact that an individual has reached pro scout status would indicate to me that his professional opinion should carry some weight and it would surprise me to hear that there are actually scouts out there who's opinions would simply have no value to a particular coach/recruiter.
MT07LHP,
Actually MT07LHP, I didn't read your post very well and popped off sooner than I should have.
I missed this very important point....
"Still learning about the whole recruiting process "
We all are, though.
If you are just starting out, my "that they knew and whose opinion they valued" quote didn't mean very much to you.
I should have considered your perspective more when I answered and maybe I shouldn't have answered at all.
First when you are just starting out, the attention of a professional scout seems very, very far away.
But,like every other profession, there are various levels of scouts. I think there is a nice article about the scouting profession on the main part of the website under articles that will increase your understanding about how scouting works.
My response may have been somewhat tainted by a raging debate in another thread about high school coaches credibility with college coaches. I think it works the same way with scouts or any "reference", if you will.
Make a few references that don't work out for someone or your evaluation skills don't pan out, then credibility becomes an issue and the value of the opinion declines.
So, that's why I put that emphasized quote in my response.
To add just a little more. Scouting is very subjective and scouts are not always looking for the same skill set. There is also a good article on the home page about what scouts look for in players by position.
Just because a person is a MLB scout does not mean that they are at a level where every college coach would take their word for a player sight unseen.
That is not bad news. That is good news. It mean that your son will have multiple opportunities to show what he can do. So, if he does not do well in a particular opportunity, there will be other chances.
I believe it is relatively rare that players are taken on a reference sight unseen with no cross checks or questions.
Actually MT07LHP, I didn't read your post very well and popped off sooner than I should have.
I missed this very important point....
"Still learning about the whole recruiting process "
We all are, though.
If you are just starting out, my "that they knew and whose opinion they valued" quote didn't mean very much to you.
I should have considered your perspective more when I answered and maybe I shouldn't have answered at all.
First when you are just starting out, the attention of a professional scout seems very, very far away.
But,like every other profession, there are various levels of scouts. I think there is a nice article about the scouting profession on the main part of the website under articles that will increase your understanding about how scouting works.
My response may have been somewhat tainted by a raging debate in another thread about high school coaches credibility with college coaches. I think it works the same way with scouts or any "reference", if you will.
Make a few references that don't work out for someone or your evaluation skills don't pan out, then credibility becomes an issue and the value of the opinion declines.
So, that's why I put that emphasized quote in my response.
To add just a little more. Scouting is very subjective and scouts are not always looking for the same skill set. There is also a good article on the home page about what scouts look for in players by position.
Just because a person is a MLB scout does not mean that they are at a level where every college coach would take their word for a player sight unseen.
That is not bad news. That is good news. It mean that your son will have multiple opportunities to show what he can do. So, if he does not do well in a particular opportunity, there will be other chances.
I believe it is relatively rare that players are taken on a reference sight unseen with no cross checks or questions.
FormerObserver,
Sometimes it's difficult to get one's point across in words alone. Nevertheless perhaps I read too much into the "value" comment. I certainly understand credibility issues with HS coaches but didn't realize such could be an issue with scouts. Although we are just starting out my son was approached by a pro scout when he attended his first showcase recently. Lastly, I am simply trying to educate myself about the process by absorbing as much information as possible from this website
(credible posters of course lol) which has already been a tremendous asset but still quite a bit of road ahead!
Sometimes it's difficult to get one's point across in words alone. Nevertheless perhaps I read too much into the "value" comment. I certainly understand credibility issues with HS coaches but didn't realize such could be an issue with scouts. Although we are just starting out my son was approached by a pro scout when he attended his first showcase recently. Lastly, I am simply trying to educate myself about the process by absorbing as much information as possible from this website
(credible posters of course lol) which has already been a tremendous asset but still quite a bit of road ahead!
MTO
It may be a long road but is a real fun ride if you do your homework and have the right people in your corner all the way.
The end result is what makes it so gratifying
It may be a long road but is a real fun ride if you do your homework and have the right people in your corner all the way.
The end result is what makes it so gratifying