Youkilis-Porcello

I deleted my topic, LOL.

My feeling is that Cabrera got in the way of the pitch (but we don't know if it was an intentional hit) and Youkilis was out of line, he intentially charged the pitcher. I do feel Porcello was protecting himself and had a right too.

I don't know the suspension punishment for each, but I suppose MLB had to be fair in handing both out.

Ahhh retaliation in the game of baseball, don't you just love it?

Porcello getting suspended is a joke. Yuklis charged the mound and threw his helmet. Porcello has to defend himself.

Did Porcello get a warning before before hitting Yuklis? Pitching inside doesn't warrant a warning.

If a warning was issued on an inside pitch, shame on the umpire but the warning was issued.

If he got no warning, then the ejection was a joke.

One good thing for the Tigers is they can extend Porcello longer this season since they got some pitch limitation on him. Looks like those 15 pitches he threw will give him a longer year

zomby- I don't think there was a warning given out, but I wasn't watching so I don't know.

Youkilis didn't appeal the suspension, Porcello did. Each player was given five games fined an undisclosed amount.

I watched both games. My opinion only; Cabrera got in the way of an inside FB. Penny isn't that good to control his inside pitches. Youkilis got plunked twice, the second time by Porcello, who acted on his own.

Porcello is a rook. If a rookie plunks an All-Star, he better get ready to rumble.

I agree about Cabrera, not so sure a rookie should be given the go ahead to pounf the allstar, but allstar should have acted like one.

JMO.

quote:

Pitching inside doesn't warrant a warning.

If a warning was issued on an inside pitch, shame on the umpire but the warning was issued.

Brad Thompson of the Cardinals found out that apparently in some eyes, throwing inside warrants a 3-game suspension!

I don't have any data to back this up, but it just seems to me that this stuff happens more often in the American League where the pitchers never have to go to the plate themselves. It may not be the case, but it seems that way to me.

I look at it another way

Why does a position player get the same 5 days as a pitcher ?----the pitcher may not even miss a start---if the position player is to miss 5 games why can't the pitcher miss 5 starts?

I don't know why Porcello was even ejected. From what I saw I can't say he threw at him intentionally. You know, sometimes balls do just get away from you, especially someone young and inexperienced. His body language when the ball hit Youkilis indicated to me he was upset with himself, not glad he got the job done.

I suspect the suspension was the Commissioner's office's way of saying, we have to do something, but it doesn't really justify much.

Youkilis, on the other hand, charged the mound and threw his helmet. That can't go on.

I do give props to Porcello for the takedown. Youkilis is a lot bigger than him but he looked like maybe he had some wrestling experience in his background!

quote:

Why does a position player get the same 5 days as a pitcher ?----the pitcher may not even miss a start---if the position player is to miss 5 games why can't the pitcher miss 5 starts?

Because nothing's stopping a manager from using a pitcher as an everyday player in some capacity or use a pitcher in consecutive games. The league could never get away with it. It would never fly with the union.

Make a pitcher miss 5 starts?

Sounds good at first, but how do you handle relief pitchers? There are starters, spot starters, long relievers, setup men, and closers. Or sometimes the closer is a committee.

So the elapsed time between outings varies from perhaps a week down to 1 day. I'm not able to think of a rule construct that would be more fair than the way it is done now.

Hey, Youk went to my HS and alma mater...I'm taking his side!

OK, seriously, I didn't see the thing. I don't see how MLB (or any league for that matter) can dissect percentage of fault and dish out suspensions accordingly. That requires measuring (spell that g-u-e-s-s-i-n-g) intent of each player accurately.

All the league cares about is that they don't have too many high-and-tight pitches followed by mound-charges. So they need to suspend both players, the same usually, so that the next guy thinks twice.

Its really that simple.

Reading body language? I wouldn't put too much stock into that at all.

Who will be the first pitcher to charge a batter after he hit a homerun. Why not, if your gonna get suspended for protecting yourself. You might as well take a bat out of the line-up and charege the hitter. Based on the precedent.

Clemmens came close when he tossed the broken bat at Piazza

As you can tell by my name on here I can be unbiased and objectively comment on this whole situation!!

In all seriousness they got the exact suspensions I thought they would get. Porcello gets an extra day of rest (5 games = 1 start) while Youk gets a week off (5 days) and makes Francona's line up choices much easier for those 5 games.

Anyone who thinks Porcello did not hit Youk on purpose is really kidding themselves, if you watched the whole game unfold it would be obvious to you! The kid had hit ONE batter all season. It all started the night before when Cabrera got hit by Penny (He does hang over the plate) and the Tigers then hit Youk (he too hangs over the plate). In the game on Tuesday Cabrera got hit in the hand..a hand that was OVER THE PLATE..it was a high fastball that clipped his hand, now that pitch was most likely unintentional..ball was over the plate even. In the bottom of the first Porcello (to his credit) stood up for a teammate and threw very inside (2 outs nobody on..hmm) to Martinez but he was able to get out of the way of the pitch. Message sent or so everyone thought. Next inning Cabrera comes up again and takes a swing but his hand is hurting and he has to leave the game. Apparently at this point Porcello figured since Cabrera had to leave the game justice hadn't been served, so he threw the first pitch of the bottom of the second SQUARE in Youk's back, watch it again it splits the 2 and the 0 on his jersey!! THERE IS NO WAY that it wasn't intentional. Youk charged the mound because it was the second time he had been drilled by the tigers in 11 innings and was sick of being the one to get retribution so he did something about it. Porcello was probably shocked as it was the first time he had been charged before!! Youk should NOT HAVE THROWN his helmet at him and Porcello did a nice job on the take down.

So please don't sit there and think for ONE SECOND it was an unintentional pitch that hit Youk or buzzed Martinez for that matter. I watched the whole game as well as the one the night before. Right or wrong it was a typical plunk fest and as is the norm it ended with a batter charging the mound.

Porcello got 5 because MLB isn't stupid and could tell it was an intentional pitch that started it all. Youk got 5 because he charged the mound and threw the helmet. Probably would have only got 3 games without the helmet toss.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty's Dad:
I don't have any data to back this up, but it just seems to me that this stuff happens more often in the American League where the pitchers never have to go to the plate themselves. It may not be the case, but it seems that way to me.

Seems that way to me too, but FWIW, I think that there is an unwritten rule that you don't retaliate on pitchers other than charging the mound.

If a pitcher had to miss 5 games (that's like weeks), makes no sense to me, that could ruin a pitcher for the rest of the season. I think MLB did the right thing, they both get the same punishment, no pay for five days.

Maybe we are getting back to "old fashioned" baseball---let them police themselves

TPM

Are you sure it is suspension with no pay ?

As far as I know the rules are whenever a player is suspended for misconduct, failed drug test, etc., he gets no pay.
I would think they intend to hit them where it might hurt them the most, in the pocketbook.
5 game supension with pay, sounds like a VACATION to me!

The league needs to be more consistent on their rulings. Wasn't there a pitcher from the White Sox that spoke openly about hitting a batter on purpose to "protect his guys" yet there was no disciplinary action taken?

Who knows what Porcello's intent was but someone better teach him to get rid of his glove and be better prepared to take a hit in those situations. He recovered nicely with the take down but the first few steps away from the mound were not his finest moments. Rick's only a year older than my son and I can't imagine how Jerseyson would have reacted if Youk was coming at him head on.

quote:

The league needs to be more consistent on their rulings. Wasn't there a pitcher from the White Sox that spoke openly about hitting a batter on purpose to "protect his guys" yet there was no disciplinary action taken?

It was the White Sox manager...

And I agree with you as I stated above...

I think perhaps some of us aren't giving enough credit for a 90MPH fastball in the mid to upper back. A few inches up and it could have spelled disaster.

IMHO give me a batting helmet thrown from 10 feet...but don't hit me that close to the back of my noggin.....

Never heard of a person killed by a batting helmet....

Good point 1B dad, but most pitches intended for retaliation are not FB, but off speed pitches.

Back in the early 90's, when Griffey Jr. was early in his career.
A NY Yankee pitcher decided he wanted to pitch high inside to Jr.,
Knocking Griffey to the ground.
Griffey did not charge the mound, the pitcher was cocky and Jr. just smiled and got back in the box.

The very next pitch Griffey's bat flew out of his hands and pin wheeled directly over the pitcher's head why he fell to the ground avoiding being hit.

Griffey calmly walked out and picked up his bat.

I've never seen Griffey ever knocked down again.

Thats how you handle pitcher's in the AL

EH

There is tremendous pressure on pitchers to protect. They are way more fearfull of how they will be treated in their own clubhouse if they dont than they are of the league or other team.

Its part of the game always has been I expect always will be. If you dont want to be thrown at dont throw at the other team. But a rookie has to show he is up to the task if called upon to take up the task. I thought it was intentional. I thought Youk could have taken it like a man and just went to first base. I happen to love Youk and the way he plays. JMHO

I guess the controversy is how inconsistent things are. Pitchers getting fined and not suspended even after admitting it was intentional, got to make some rules I guess.