2024s

TPM;

In 1987, when I initiated the Area Code games to this day, there was no charge the players, the pro scouts selected the players thru tryouts, which involved 800 additional players each for the Scouts and College Coaches to evaluate.

Pro scouts were the team coaches and over 6 days there were many clinics and the knowledge and respect of the game existed. Players and family received $35 million each year in signing bonus.

All the players need to do was to ask questions.

In addition, Dusty Baker, Eric Davis, Tommy Lasorda added knowledge and entertainment.

Each year, we formed a American Team to play the Japan and Korean National Teams.

Bob

@ClevelandDad posted:

I've wanted to post in this thread 100 times and held off.  A feeble attempt at saying something that maybe can help...

Frustration.  This is caused by knowing something that you think is important (e.g., am I missing out on some hypothetical timeline) that has little relevance to you.  I've always felt there can be harm with the way information may be used/received here at the hsbbweb.  The idea of a timeline has always baffled (frustrated) me.  God made each of us completely different.  He blesses each one of us with different gifts and at different "times."  Some kids may be college ready (baseball wise) in 8th grade.  Should one be concerned about their timeline?  Other kids may not be college ready (baseball wise) until years after high school.  The funny thing is, those late bloomers may turn out to be better players in the long run than someone who seemed to be a sure bet at a much younger age.  None of us know the future - even the shrewdest baseball professionals.

There are scouts at every game.  Many people don't realize this.  Coaches, players, parents, grandparents, spectators, umpires, and so forth.  Don't go so much by what the people on your sidelines say.  What is the reaction of the non-interested observer?  Do opposing coaches make comments to your son after the game?  Do opposing parents come over to your side and mention what they noticed?  Do opposing players notice?  In a fall ball league we played in Sandusky, Ohio this fall, one of the umpires was a scout for several D1 and D2 teams in Michigan.  He made it clear which players he noticed and asked for their information.

Stats.  Yes, the better players tend to have the best stats.  They are highly misleading at the youth level.  There are some kids who go 4-4 whenever they face slower/mediocre pitching, for example.  When the talent level goes up - with higher velocity and breaking balls, some of these same kids seem clueless.  Yet, when you average it all up, their "numbers" look good.  Other kids wilt in big moments of a game.  The kids who are noticed usually have something to do with the outcome of a game - offensively, defensively, baserunning, hustle, baseball IQ, and so forth.  Maybe your guy was 0-3 on a given day but he made defensive plays that affected the outcome of the game.

I love kids who at the end of a game, their uniform is dirty.  That type of information tells me something about a player.

Making the high school team and helping them win.  I've read thousands of posts here where parents tell how their travel team blows away the high school team.  Maybe so.  But the high school team is the hand you are dealt so it presents an opportunity.  One player can make a difference on a high school team.  I still believe it just as important as summer travel baseball for different reasons.

About 10% of all high school players go on to play college or professional baseball.  My contention has been - and I will never back down from this - if you are a decent player (not overwhelming talent but decent talent), there is a place for you somewhere at the next level be it D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA, or pro.  Do I need to get frustrated if I do not know "today" what level or team my son will play at?  No.  We need to be grateful for the blessings and opportunities of today.  God willing, tomorrow will take care of itself.

Thank you so much for your words. I'm going to turn back to this often and re-read this. You're very right in the fact that our frustration is a result of us trying to fit some "schedule" when in all honesty my son has been on his own unique journey. He is where he is today because of having that atypical journey. He's turned out pretty spectacular thus far and so when I start to get frustrated...I'm just going to have to remember to re-read your thoughts, take a deep breath, and just be grateful.

@Momball11 posted:

Thank you so much for your words. I'm going to turn back to this often and re-read this. You're very right in the fact that our frustration is a result of us trying to fit some "schedule" when in all honesty my son has been on his own unique journey. He is where he is today because of having that atypical journey. He's turned out pretty spectacular thus far and so when I start to get frustrated...I'm just going to have to remember to re-read your thoughts, take a deep breath, and just be grateful.

The schedule is weird and always changing. Recruiting for 2024’s is about to get very slow and will pick up again around May. That doesn’t mean you stop the process, just keep it in mind so hopefully the frustrations are minimal. Many here told me stories of their sons not being committed until November of the senior year.

You’ll have schools that start recruiting hard as soon as their season ends and others that don’t start until July. Some won’t even start making offers until August.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I bet I can find more owners and academies willing to pick up the tab for a good player than you can find good players pushed out because they can't afford it.

The model is simple, you are just making up assumptions that have no way to be proven. I'm sure 20 years ago this was happening but it isn't today. There are tons of programs available for kids to keep playing. There is a relatively lower-income community in the next county over. They always had a scrappy travel team that was our rival and beat us most of the time. They all opted to play Legion ball for their summers because it was either very cheap or free. Those kids are still being recruited and a few of them were even scooped up by a couple national clubs to play in Jupiter this year. If the family of a good player today can't figure out a way for their kid to keep playing travel baseball they aren't trying very hard.

This sport can be very expensive and suck the money right out of you. It doesn't have to be though. Just in the past couple of days I've seen prime examples posted here of parents wasting their money on things that likely won't yield results.

No need to bet, again who absorbs the cost, ask your friends, does it come out of their pocket or is the cost spread out from the lower levels.  Simple business model,

Note, while attending the ABCA Convention in 2020 I sat in on a panel discussion discussing the diversity challenges .

The program in question are more area based, ie. RBI.

As for Legion Baseball, it is not truly available in all areas and has since a significant decrease especially in NJ, as for in South Jersey the powerhouse (Legion team) feeds into the powerhouse Private school, due to the increase influence of travel baseball, it is difficult for the legion team to retain players because the fear missing out of the showcase travel circuit.

I will keep it this simple,  Willingboro NJ, eliminated their LL programs around 2006, so where to the 6u to 12u learn the basics.

Because of limited resources, the high school team has it challenges.

As for assumptions, we can go back and forth, all you have to do is look at the makeup of many college baseball teams to understand there is a lack of opportunities at many levels.

Note, been there and done that between 2010 and 2014, told my son when he sees somebody that looks like him, nod your head to acknowledge.

Upon looking at every roster for the since 2014, at the college level you will notice less than 5% coming from African American background.

Now there are other nuances, to this challenge, for example, sports are normally generational, between 1990 and 2010, many AA went in a different direction from a sports perspective, and as you aware, the game changes at 13u/14u level.

Secondly, once you get to the high school level, sports have been pushing for specialization by training 10 mos out of the year.

Of course there is much more to this dynamic.

@PitchingFan posted:

I've said this before and I will say it again.  If you are spending more than $2,000 a year on baseball teams/coaches/lessons/equipment to try to get a college scholarship you are wasting your money.  If you are a top D1/P5 legit player, someone will let you play for free at the PG and PBR tournaments.  If you are not top D1/P5 legit player, you don't need to go to those places.  If you are wanting to play D2/D3/NAIA/Juco then you don't need to go to the expensive tournaments/showcases to get there.  Invest your money in TRYING to get bigger/faster/stronger and play locally where you can be seen by the D2/D3/NAIA/Juco teams.  Go to their camps/showcases and get in their ears.

I know I just opened myself up to a thrashing but after being in this recruiting game for 20 years as a baseball and a softball varsity HC, parent of 3 guys who went through it, friends with a multitude of baseball and softball HC's at all levels, doing lessons for 15 years, and watching 100's if not a 1,000 guys and their families go through it, this is my conclusion right or wrong and I can almost prove it 90% of the time it is right.

No thrashing. No need to prove.   IMHO, the challenge is getting enough QUALITY game experience in order to gain the necessary skills. Where that can be obtained is the crux of the issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

No need to bet, again who absorbs the cost, ask your friends, does it come out of their pocket or is the cost spread out from the lower levels.  Simple business model,

Note, while attending the ABCA Convention in 2020 I sat in on a panel discussion discussing the diversity challenges .

The program in question are more area based, ie. RBI.

As for Legion Baseball, it is not truly available in all areas and has since a significant decrease especially in NJ, as for in South Jersey the powerhouse (Legion team) feeds into the powerhouse Private school, due to the increase influence of travel baseball, it is difficult for the legion team to retain players because the fear missing out of the showcase travel circuit.

I will keep it this simple,  Willingboro NJ, eliminated their LL programs around 2006, so where to the 6u to 12u learn the basics.

Because of limited resources, the high school team has it challenges.

As for assumptions, we can go back and forth, all you have to do is look at the makeup of many college baseball teams to understand there is a lack of opportunities at many levels.

Note, been there and done that between 2010 and 2014, told my son when he sees somebody that looks like him, nod your head to acknowledge.

Upon looking at every roster for the since 2014, at the college level you will notice less than 5% coming from African American background.

Now there are other nuances, to this challenge, for example, sports are normally generational, between 1990 and 2010, many AA went in a different direction from a sports perspective, and as you aware, the game changes at 13u/14u level.

Secondly, once you get to the high school level, sports have been pushing for specialization by training 10 mos out of the year.

Of course there is much more to this dynamic.

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

No thrashing. No need to prove.   IMHO, the challenge is getting enough QUALITY game experience in order to gain the necessary skills. Where that can be obtained is the crux of the issue.

Yes, finding that quality has definitely been an issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights we know that minority struggle personally. When moving to Appalachia I knew I would be a minority. So when my son got into baseball, I knew he automatically would have to deal with implicit bias/racism. It's been interesting to say the least. Fortunately I think he's pretty oblivious to it and it's just made him that much more resilient.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

At one point Barry Larkin was a baseball tv analyst. He stated his son has zero interest in baseball. His son said baseball is uncool. Shane Larkin played for Miami and five years in the NBA. He could have stayed in the NBA. But he signed for a lot more money to play in Europe.

I volunteered time to RBI clinics. Almost all the inner city kids showing up were Hispanic. There were very few blacks.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

I'm not going to debate you because you believe you understand the community on multiple levels, you have a snippet,  I lived it and know a little bit more of based on our experiences.

So it is not a black or white then there is a shade of grey and some nuance,  which is easier to discuss vs debate over a thread.

Again, the challenges will be different based on region (NorthEast vs midwest (chi) vs south vs west).

Say NYC, tough in the inner cities, most from Long Island and Upstate NY, which is a different demographic.

When do you identify good enough?  14u (HS).

@Momball11 posted:

Yes, finding that quality has definitely been an issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights we know that minority struggle personally. When moving to Appalachia I knew I would be a minority. So when my son got into baseball, I knew he automatically would have to deal with implicit bias/racism. It's been interesting to say the least. Fortunately I think he's pretty oblivious to it and it's just made him that much more resilient.

KISS method, don't look at race, play to the best of your ability, but understand you will be in the minority.  Which is why when my son was a junior we played with a very good team from North Jersey, more because I wanted my son to have experience with a hard nose African American coach, who's son was drafted and could put some humility into my son.

Also, the objective was to show my son leaders and/or leadership can come from anybody.

It was more about character building and providing my son with addition resources to discuss  things that he might not want to speak to me about.

As you are aware at some point you can only advise vs tell your young adult.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

I'm not going to debate you because you believe you understand the community on multiple levels, you have a snippet,  I lived it and know a little bit more of based on our experiences.

So it is not a black or white then there is a shade of grey and some nuance,  which is easier to discuss vs debate over a thread.

Again, the challenges will be different based on region (NorthEast vs midwest (chi) vs south vs west).

Say NYC, tough in the inner cities, most from Long Island and Upstate NY, which is a different demographic.

When do you identify good enough?  14u (HS).

I agree with you 100% on regional challenges. We have baseball year round in FL. In the fall we compete with football and in the spring we compete with basketball and sometimes football. I mentioned to another poster that the football coaches would literally come to our games to try to convince the kids to leave to go play in a football game. It was a tug of  war. Even now in high school it is hard to get the kids to put in the right training and throwing because the football and basketball coaches are constantly trying to get them for tournaments.

Here in FL kids can play rec for free starting at tee ball. Travel used to start at 9u but now there are teams as young as 7u. Good players of a low-income family won't have trouble finding a team to let them play for free.

When I refer to good HS players I'm referring to potential college prospects. If they aren't a potential college prospect and that is the goal, playing on a team may not be the best for them anyway. They should be training to get biggerfasterstronger until they are.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I agree with you 100% on regional challenges. We have baseball year round in FL. In the fall we compete with football and in the spring we compete with basketball and sometimes football. I mentioned to another poster that the football coaches would literally come to our games to try to convince the kids to leave to go play in a football game. It was a tug of  war. Even now in high school it is hard to get the kids to put in the right training and throwing because the football and basketball coaches are constantly trying to get them for tournaments.

Here in FL kids can play rec for free starting at tee ball. Travel used to start at 9u but now there are teams as young as 7u. Good players of a low-income family won't have trouble finding a team to let them play for free.

When I refer to good HS players I'm referring to potential college prospects. If they aren't a potential college prospect and that is the goal, playing on a team may not be the best for them anyway. They should be training to get biggerfasterstronger until they are.

Totally agree.  IMHO, the from what I'm seeing the South has made some significant inroads with respects to this issue via Minority Baseball Prospects.

I believe there are about 4 or 5 organizations that are trying to help.