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5A Region I Area Round

wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FMHS Grad:
I don't doubt the coaches, players and parents at FM will go over the game between Plano West and FM but I don't think or you should not hear we were robbed or it was stolen from us out of FM. We didn't get the job done It hurts but really saying we should have or could have only makes it worse.

This was really a great thing to say.

You're taking all the fun out of baiting FM'ers.
D 58diamonddad10+ posts
all series are based on agreements between coaches - if they can't agree, there is a coin flip - # of games, home field or neutral, dates, umpires - everyone has the same opportunity - how can you say FM would have won a 2 of 3 series - both their aces threw last night - one gave up 5 runs in 1 1/3 and the other 3 runs in 5 2/3

they played earlier this year and tied on a phantom call

should we also consider delaying games if one team has a "star" injured?
FG FMHS Grad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
quote:
Originally posted by FMHS Grad:
I don't doubt the coaches, players and parents at FM will go over the game between Plano West and FM but I don't think or you should not hear we were robbed or it was stolen from us out of FM. We didn't get the job done It hurts but really saying we should have or could have only makes it worse.

This was really a great thing to say.

You're taking all the fun out of baiting FM'ers.


Sorry to ruin your fun but one thing I cannot stand is to say "ya we lost but we are better and should have won or they just got lucky" Luck is part of any sport and PW was better last night. Do I think FM has the better team and maybe program, yes but not when it counted last night. It sucks that when we needed our pitchers to be their best and our hitters to be their best they did not get it done. I cannot and will not degrade what PW did last night. They won in a convincing manner so kudos to them.
TV The Voice of Reason10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
If you truly believe this, then explain how the Yankees ever lose a game. The "better team finds a way to win" sounds great, but in real life, it doesn't always happen that way, particularly in baseball. Or, I suppose that you have never won with a weaker team, or ever lost with a stronger one.

Ok, so the Yankees should never be judged by a single game, because we all know they are really "better". So the next time they end up in a game 7, maybe Bud Selig should just release this statement:

"It looks like this series has come down to a single must-win game. Everyone in the universe knows that the Yankees are the best team, because they have the best roster, and they won the most games during the regular season. But due to all of the variables in a single baseball game that are beyond their control, we feel that it would be incorrect to expose the best team to the statistical hazards that may cause the best team to actually lose.
We therefore award the series to the Best Team, the Yankees."

Or maybe they should just keep playing enough games until the Yankees win +1 ?


Your example is fatally flawed, and it's interesting that you criticize my position by using the example of a 7 game series. Neither the Yankees, or any other MLB team are judged by one game, since if they manage to qualify for the play-offs at all, they have to win two multi-game series to even get to the World Series. I've never said that the winner should not be determined on the field--obviously it should. The truth is that in baseball the "statistical hazards" are more significant in a single game than in a series, and surely everyone on this Board knows this. In a given game, anything happens, in a multi-game series, it's less likely (although not impossible) that the weaker team will prevail.

A more accurate example of your position would be to have the Yankees (or Red Sox, etc.) play the National league winner in a One game, winner take all championship game, since as we all apparently know, the better team always wins. Then,of course, it would be known as the World Championship Game, and not the World Series.
A Aloysius10+ posts
I know it's hockey, but......Ask the Washington Capitals and the Pittsburgh Penguins who the better team is? Montreal eliminated both of them in a 7 game series! Had they been 3 or 5 games series; Montreal would have lost both!

1. z-Washington 82 121
2. y-New Jersey 82 103
3. y-Buffalo 82 100
4. x-Pittsburgh 82 101
5. x-Ottawa 82 94
6. x-Boston 82 91
7. x-Philadelphia 82 88
8. x-Montreal 82 88
R RLB100+ posts
The reason baseball needs 162 games and multiple rounds of 7 game playoff series to determine the champion is because baseball has the highest degree of variance of any sport - unlike football. There is a ton of luck involved in baseball and the larger sample size offsets this variance determining more of a true champion.

In high school I would like to see each playoff round to have a set number of games (such as 3) and each team go from there instead of a coin flip to determine how many you play. But that isn't the rule so you make the best of the situation and set up your gameplan for one game.

I also do not think anyone should complain if a team uses the coin flip rule to their strategic advantage just as Grapevine did to Coppell last year. The Grapevine coach knew his chances were maybe 1% to beat them in a 3 game set but since Grapevine had a good pitcher those percentages rose a little and anything can happen so why wouldn't he try for the 1 game? I mean he doesn't want to go home.
S Summertime10+ posts
Don't see FM beating PW in a three game or seven game series. FM was great in 6-5A, but the standard of play in 8-5A is much higher. FM did a great job of grooming FMM, C and SLC to whip up on 5-5A, but no one pushed FM in return. Next year in 8-5A, Allen finally gets some district competition in football and FM and FMM rise to the new standard of play in baseball.

Next rnd, Jesuit vs PW.
txbball14txbball14100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Summertime:
Don't see FM beating PW in a three game or seven game series. FM was great in 6-5A, but the standard of play in 8-5A is much higher. FM did a great job of grooming FMM, C and SLC to whip up on 5-5A, but no one pushed FM in return. Next year in 8-5A, Allen finally gets some district competition in football and FM and FMM rise to the new standard of play in baseball.

Next rnd, Jesuit vs PW.


Rut roh Rorge...Let's see where this topic flys off to now...
Chief NocahomaChief Nocahoma100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Summertime:
Don't see FM beating PW in a three game or seven game series. FM was great in 6-5A, but the standard of play in 8-5A is much higher. FM did a great job of grooming FMM, C and SLC to whip up on 5-5A, but no one pushed FM in return. Next year in 8-5A, Allen finally gets some district competition in football and FM and FMM rise to the new standard of play in baseball.

Next rnd, Jesuit vs PW.


You weren't singing that song last year when 6-5a eliminated every team in 8-5a.
H hornsr1100+ posts
I think the performance by PW left no doubt who the Overall stronger team was last night. 8-3 and the #1 and #2 got shelled for FM. FM is an excellent team and I felt they would win. The bats are just better at PW and more experienced.

It was a great matchup between two of the best teams in the area and congrats to FM on a great season
BB Bronco Baseball10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Summertime:
Don't see FM beating PW in a three game or seven game series. FM was great in 6-5A, but the standard of play in 8-5A is much higher. FM did a great job of grooming FMM, C and SLC to whip up on 5-5A, but no one pushed FM in return. Next year in 8-5A, Allen finally gets some district competition in football and FM and FMM rise to the new standard of play in baseball.

Next rnd, Jesuit vs PW.


I'm going to hold off on agreeing that 8-5A is better than 6-5A until I see the outcomes of the Jesuit/SLC and Boyd/Marcus series. I think Jesuit is in good position to move on with their pitching depth, but SLC proved last week they could come back from an 0-1 deficit. I don't know a whole lot about FM Marcus other than they beat a solid Heritage team last week, so I expect them to be playing with a lot of confidence right now.
L Letot100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by hornsr1:
I think the performance by PW left no doubt who the Overall stronger team was last night. 8-3 and the #1 and #2 got shelled for FM. FM is an excellent team and I felt they would win. The bats are just better at PW and more experienced.

It was a great matchup between two of the best teams in the area and congrats to FM on a great season


Not sure I would say the #2 got shelled, 3 runs in 5 2/3 innings.
W WatchemplayMember
quote:
Originally posted by hornsr1:
I think the performance by PW left no doubt who the Overall stronger team was last night. 8-3 and the #1 and #2 got shelled for FM. FM is an excellent team and I felt they would win. The bats are just better at PW and more experienced.

It was a great matchup between two of the best teams in the area and congrats to FM on a great season


Not sure I would say the #2 got shelled, 3 runs in 5 2/3 innings.

And that was on a (3 run)HR after intentional walk.

The Lefty threw great. PW Arm & bats were just better last night, Next.
D DFWFan10+ posts
If this is about the UIL making money... shame on them!!!! This should be about he student athletes and what is right and best for them. Teaching them that manipulating a within a system to have a chance to win is next aweful education! Let the UIL change to do what is right and "teach" our student athletes to compete not look for loopholes!
quote:
Originally posted by Outsider:
Its the same for both teams playing.

Again, the UIL has to take into consideration the smaller districts with less money that would have drive several hundred miles to play. Not everyone goes to a 4A or 5A school in the area. They HAVE to leave that option open. And who makes up the rules that the UIL goes by? The UIL Legislative Council, which is made up with.......... superintendents. Its their budgets.

In a perfect world where everyone is equal, yes, a 3 game series would be ideal. Last time I checked it was far from perfect.

As far as the 3 team or 4 team thing making the playoffs. Its about increased student athlete particitipation. It use to only be the district champion went to the playoffs. Football and basketball playoffs expanding meant 2 things: expanded participation, and more money for the UIL. They take 15% of all varsity football and basketball gates. Follow the $$$$.
D DFWFan10+ posts
Wow! You are a wise man! And I say man because men will get this system changed! Boys are out there playing the game and rightfully being coached to make no excuses. That is the way the coaches must and should teach them. But it does not make the system right!
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
quote:
Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
So did the better team win last night?


I don't know if PW is better than FM or not. I just know that the PW coach had his doubts-he opted for a one game play-off, and was unwilling to face FM 2 out of 3. Certainly, PW was better in that one game.

In other 2nd round series throughout the State, first game losers will get opportunities to advance--FM will not. And, in many cases, it's just because the coach of the 'better' team won a coin flip. What a way to run a tournament.
D DFWFan10+ posts
Voice: I don't know who you are but you are a wise man. I don't have a horse in this race, but I am a fan and I like you and like you would love to see an even race that makes sense! Maybe the UIL board will hear us somehow!
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
The Board seems to be dividing into the following categories on this whole question:

1) The play-offs are not about who is "better" anyway, so if the there is disparity in the play-off format, no big deal. (I wonder if those who think this would support a District Champion v. District Champion, 2nd place v 2nd place, 3rd v 3rd, etc. format in the first round. Perhaps it should be set up so that play-off teams always play the team that is closest geographically, regardless of record or district finish).

2) The best team always wins, ie. a win proves that the winner is really better. (don't know how this squares with the fact that there are many split series winners, and honestly I can't believe that there are real baseball fans on this board who really believe this anyway)

3) There should be some conformity in the play-off format, so that a) there is at least some reward for winning a district championship, and b) an individual coach is not in position to game the system to his team's advantage, even to the extent that the outcome of the play-off will sometimes depend in large degree on who wins a coin toss. (It will always happen, but a uniform system would help eliminate a 4th place team dictating the format to a District Champ, for example).

My previous posts are indicative of my position. My team is still alive and I don't have a personal interest in any of the teams affected by this situation thus far. But, I do think that the UIL should make the system uniform, with some acknowledgement of a District Championship taken into account.
D DFWFan10+ posts
True thoughts and noble words that all young men and parents and coaches and schools in that situation need to learn and say and believe! ... but that does not make the system the right system. We have to reform the system!
quote:
Originally posted by FMHS Grad:
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
If the criterion for "better" is "able to win last night's game", then the data sure seems to say Jesuit is a "better" team than Flower Mound.

However, I think there may be a whole pile of shouldawouldacoulda analysis on it's way that's going to dispute this fact...


Jesuit beat Southlake and yes they were the better team yesterday in that game.

I don't doubt the coaches, players and parents at FM will go over the game between Plano West and FM but I don't think or you should not hear we were robbed or it was stolen from us out of FM. We didn't get the job done It hurts but really saying we should have or could have only makes it worse.
D DFWFan10+ posts
oh that is a great analogy wise one!
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
If you truly believe this, then explain how the Yankees ever lose a game. The "better team finds a way to win" sounds great, but in real life, it doesn't always happen that way, particularly in baseball. Or, I suppose that you have never won with a weaker team, or ever lost with a stronger one.

Ok, so the Yankees should never be judged by a single game, because we all know they are really "better". So the next time they end up in a game 7, maybe Bud Selig should just release this statement:

"It looks like this series has come down to a single must-win game. Everyone in the universe knows that the Yankees are the best team, because they have the best roster, and they won the most games during the regular season. But due to all of the variables in a single baseball game that are beyond their control, we feel that it would be incorrect to expose the best team to the statistical hazards that may cause the best team to actually lose.
We therefore award the series to the Best Team, the Yankees."

Or maybe they should just keep playing enough games until the Yankees win +1 ?


Your example is fatally flawed, and it's interesting that you criticize my position by using the example of a 7 game series. Neither the Yankees, or any other MLB team are judged by one game, since if they manage to qualify for the play-offs at all, they have to win two multi-game series to even get to the World Series. I've never said that the winner should not be determined on the field--obviously it should. The truth is that in baseball the "statistical hazards" are more significant in a single game than in a series, and surely everyone on this Board knows this. In a given game, anything happens, in a multi-game series, it's less likely (although not impossible) that the weaker team will prevail.

A more accurate example of your position would be to have the Yankees (or Red Sox, etc.) play the National league winner in a One game, winner take all championship game, since as we all apparently know, the better team always wins. Then,of course, it would be known as the World Championship Game, and not the World Series.
D DFWFan10+ posts
It is not a matter of stategy under the current system. Every coach should play the system to their advantage. Your scenerio is correct. However the problem is not your scenerio it is the system! The UIL has to change the system! Enough said... time for bed! Good luck to the boys playing. Good luck to the Men/Women of the UIL that need to fix this flawed system!
quote:
Originally posted by RLB:
The reason baseball needs 162 games and multiple rounds of 7 game playoff series to determine the champion is because baseball has the highest degree of variance of any sport - unlike football. There is a ton of luck involved in baseball and the larger sample size offsets this variance determining more of a true champion.

In high school I would like to see each playoff round to have a set number of games (such as 3) and each team go from there instead of a coin flip to determine how many you play. But that isn't the rule so you make the best of the situation and set up your gameplan for one game.

I also do not think anyone should complain if a team uses the coin flip rule to their strategic advantage just as Grapevine did to Coppell last year. The Grapevine coach knew his chances were maybe 1% to beat them in a 3 game set but since Grapevine had a good pitcher those percentages rose a little and anything can happen so why wouldn't he try for the 1 game? I mean he doesn't want to go home.
I ironhorse5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by longballs:
Broncobaseball , yea 2 0 with no hits till the 5th, 6-5A is a breeze!! Go chat with summertime

Typical Flower Mound parent. Stay classy. And be sure to post your kids jersey # so we can see how far the apple fell from the tree. I'm sure he's one of the 75 JV kids suited up. If he made the cut.
D 58diamonddad10+ posts
Everyone needs to chill out - the rules are what they are - don't blame the coaches or the parents for using rules to their advantage - remember, this is about the kids

If FM had won the flip and chosen three games, who knows what would have happened? But they DID NOT and so they lost in one game.

Remember, this is supposed to be about the kids, not the parents!

My son plays HS baseball and knows (and plays in the summer with and against) players on nearly every team they play during the school season - and they are still firends after the game

The best news is that this will go away and there will be another thread just like this next year
FG FMHS Grad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by xPitcherx:
I'm tired of parents still complaining about the outcomes they can't control. FM lost. Final. Finished. Yes it was very unfortunate, but thats baseball for you. PW was obviously the better team that night. So congrats to PW and good luck rest of the season.


I do not see any Flower Mound parents or students complaining on here. We have manned up to our loss and said that's the rules.
TV The Voice of Reason10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by xPitcherx:
I'm tired of parents still complaining about the outcomes they can't control. FM lost. Final. Finished. Yes it was very unfortunate, but thats baseball for you. PW was obviously the better team that night. So congrats to PW and good luck rest of the season.


I'm tired of posters intentionally mis-representing my position or opinion. I'm not a "parent complaining about an outcome." I'm not a fan or parent of FM, and it doesn't personally bother me in the least that they lost.

I do believe that the system is flawed, and that it could be easily fixed. I don't think it's right that one coach can dictate to another the series format, by virtue of winning a coin flip, particularly in the early rounds, when seeding should mean something. Some series are one game, and others are 3. For all I know, PW will get burned later this year by the same system.

An interesting article in the Fort Worth Star Telegram:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2...-coaches-prefer.html
D DFWFan10+ posts
Amen to that "Voice" I'm in the same camp... no player in the tournament. Just interested in reform of the system!
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
quote:
Originally posted by xPitcherx:
I'm tired of parents still complaining about the outcomes they can't control. FM lost. Final. Finished. Yes it was very unfortunate, but thats baseball for you. PW was obviously the better team that night. So congrats to PW and good luck rest of the season.


I'm tired of posters intentionally mis-representing my position or opinion. I'm not a "parent complaining about an outcome." I'm not a fan or parent of FM, and it doesn't personally bother me in the least that they lost.

I do believe that the system is flawed, and that it could be easily fixed. I don't think it's right that one coach can dictate to another the series format, by virtue of winning a coin flip, particularly in the early rounds, when seeding should mean something. Some series are one game, and others are 3. For all I know, PW will get burned later this year by the same system.

An interesting article in the Fort Worth Star Telegram:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2...-coaches-prefer.html
D DFWFan10+ posts
Wonderful Article. Here are 3-4 coaches from top-notch programs saying the same thing! Fix the system, but we will play and coach as the rules state at this point. But please fix the system! If the coaches can get this fixed as the article says... then let the coaches step up to the plate and do what is right!!!
quote:
Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
quote:
Originally posted by xPitcherx:
I'm tired of parents still complaining about the outcomes they can't control. FM lost. Final. Finished. Yes it was very unfortunate, but thats baseball for you. PW was obviously the better team that night. So congrats to PW and good luck rest of the season.


I'm tired of posters intentionally mis-representing my position or opinion. I'm not a "parent complaining about an outcome." I'm not a fan or parent of FM, and it doesn't personally bother me in the least that they lost.

I do believe that the system is flawed, and that it could be easily fixed. I don't think it's right that one coach can dictate to another the series format, by virtue of winning a coin flip, particularly in the early rounds, when seeding should mean something. Some series are one game, and others are 3. For all I know, PW will get burned later this year by the same system.

An interesting article in the Fort Worth Star Telegram:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2...-coaches-prefer.html
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