A question about summer collegiate teams

Well, the thing with the Cape Cod league is that all of these guys are so good, someone is bound to get left out of pt just based on sheer talent. (You are First team All Sec, they got a first team all american etc.)

My fall ball coach does a summer college league in the Tri State Area. Gets some good players from Rutgers, NJIT, Rider etc. Obviously he has his opening day lineup, and the 4-5 guys that start every game because they are that good. But he also shifts around to get every player some starts. For example, he may have his stud third baseman play first or DH in a game, and give a younger guy a start, while keeping the stud's bat in the lineup. Real standup guy. Great coach.

I think it varies on a league level likely. Also, I am new to the site, so I don't know your/your son's history, but is there something that maybe the coach sees in other player than he does in your son? Maybe something generally unnoticed like speed, or aggressiveness? Don't take it the wrong way, I do believe there are some coaches would show clear preference to certain players, but was just wondering if there is another side to it. 

How are the other 3 outfielders playing time on their college programs as opposed to your sons?

I appreciate your post, but I'd really rather not have this drug into a "sour grapes" thread. Let's say the left fielder is really good and deserves all the playing time he gets. The center fielder isn't really good, and has done nothing to show he has earned the playing time he's received and leave it at that. 

SomeBaseballDad posted:

I appreciate your post, but I'd really rather not have this drug into a "sour grapes" thread. Let's say the left fielder is really good and deserves all the playing time he gets. The center fielder isn't really good, and has done nothing to show he has earned the playing time he's received and leave it at that. 

I think that in most cases, its supposed to be done fairly.  Since you play almost everyday, players should rotate,  maybe a starter one day then depending on the pitcher, they sub. As an example, son was a starter so he was a reliever at the cape. If your son needs work, his coach should indicate as such. If he needs a lighter schedule, that's indicated as well.

If he feels he isn't playing as much as needed, let him call his coach for advice.

JMO

It is pretty early in the season.  Be patient, unless the roster is too deep things will probably balance out.  Coaches will adjust once they see various players perform.  They are balancing player development and winning which is a tough thing to do, especially early in the season. 

If the coach was there last year look at the players playing time.  Did he seem to give a fair amount of time to all the players?

Most coaches will develop a playing time pattern that is somewhat predictable.   I'd encourage your son to just keep working and improving his skills.  Make the most of the batting practice and fielding repetitions.  Ultimately, there is little he can do but battle for playing time.  This is a mental challenge of trying not to do to much when opportunities are provided.  Just stay relaxed and play to his strengths.  Enjoy the experience and develop his skills.

I know this is nothing you probably haven't told him already.  It is a journey that he should enjoy while working hard to improve.  Best of luck.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

I appreciate your post, but I'd really rather not have this drug into a "sour grapes" thread. Let's say the left fielder is really good and deserves all the playing time he gets. The center fielder isn't really good, and has done nothing to show he has earned the playing time he's received and leave it at that. 

I didn't mean it like that. The best advice I can give is to make sure your son doesn't lose his confidence. Keep telling himself he is an accomplished ball player. I do this myself. I play with some guys that are better than me, but when I am on the field, I will never admit it. Mark your territory.

Funny you posted this question.  One of my sons is in his first year as HC in a prominent summer league.  Through him, I am getting some interesting insight into the dynamics and workings of those teams and leagues.  I was actually going to get a thread started to see what different players are experiencing in various places and with different summer teams around the country.

With summer college ball, perhaps more so than any other level, there are some seriously contrasting perspectives.  The college coaches are sending their players to play and get better, so they all expect their players to play when agreeing to send them.  The owners are trying to put a winning product on the field to sell tickets and sponsorship, so they want the coaches to put the best players on the field all the time and they want the players to give their all out best to win.  The better players (typically those who played the most during the college season) are worn out physically and mentally and many need a break, at least to the extent that they don't want to play in a game every night for several consecutive nights.  Parents often travel a good distance just for a few days in hopes of seeing their kid play.  The summer coaches are often largely caught in the middle of all this.  Some were involved in bringing players on board and some were not.  Some were partially involved and know what playing time discussions took place and some were not.  They have to try to make everyone happy (impossible with the conflicting agendas) and keep players motivated to play well all the way through the summer season.  They have to try to motivate them to want to earn a playoff berth for the right to spend yet more time away from home without  rest and without seeing family with what little time they have left of their summer before they have to head back to school and start the grind all over again.  Most of the summer college coaches are also regular college coaches/asst coaches and have those relationships and reputation to protect.

Further complicating the whole equation are things like formal contracts, injuries, home sickness, work requirements, summer school, host family experiences, pitcher inning limitations, etc., etc.  Also, college coaches will often leverage sending a good player with the agreement that the summer organization will also take a few "other" players.  It can become quite the tangled web.

So, bringing this back to your particular scenario, somebaseballdad, I think a key is first knowing how your son came about being part of this particular team/league.  Did his college coach refer him or did he make his own arrangements?  The answer will factor in to determining the best course of action.

SBD, my son was on the other side of this equation last summer. The coach was playing him quite a bit and he wasn't producing at the beginning of the season. I'm pretty sure it was because he put up very good numbers during his spring season. The coach knew he could hit, he just needed some time.
I've always preach that BA doesn't mean anything over 5 or 10 games (more and more I'm convinced that it doesn't mean a whole lot period). I think he was worn out from a long springs season. The hits eventually came.

Somebaseballdad.....my son is in the GLSCL for his third year now.  The league is very competitive....and teams play to win.  Yes, the goal is to get kids playing time in the summer, but from what I've seen it's not like Little League where everyone has to get the same amount of playing time.   I guess like any other team, the coach sees certain things to make him play one kid over another.....and maybe the "local" kid being "local" has something to do with it.  These teams cost a lot of money to run and they all have some local kids that bring fans and $$$ to the field.  I'm gonna guess that at away games he may not play as often.   As someone else mentioned, it's early in the season (son's team has played 5 games).  With only 2 or 3 practices before the season started, and not everyone there right away (Regionals, Supers) it takes a couple weeks for things to shake out.  I wouldn't be too concerned.  42 games in 45 days is a lot of baseball.  I'm sure your son will get plenty of playing time.   

Feel free to PM me.....I'm sure we'll run into each other this summer.....would be fun to say hello to a fellow HSBaseballweb'er

Cabbage  thanks for the reply  His college coaches placed him, and given the talk he had with the HC I'd assume they thought there was a understanding as to position etc.  

I guess I assumed playing time would be more evenly distributed to start then becoming more merit based. As to the "hang in there" and BA doesn't matter. Like I said, I didn't want this to become a "it's not fair" thing.  Just surprised at the obvious favoritism being displayed. And for context, with a good number of AB's now the kid sits at .500 with a .750 OBP. The center fielder is  .186 and  .320 and the kid he shares time with at right is  .000 and .111.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Cabbage  thanks for the reply  His college coaches placed him, and given the talk he had with the HC I'd assume they thought there was a understanding as to position etc.  

I guess I assumed playing time would be more evenly distributed to start then becoming more merit based. As to the "hang in there" and BA doesn't matter. Like I said, I didn't want this to become a "it's not fair" thing.  Just surprised at the obvious favoritism being displayed. And for context, with a good number of AB's now the kid sits at .500 with a .750 OBP. The center fielder is  .186 and  .320 and the kid he shares time with at right is  .000 and .111.

 

OK, good.  The fact that his college coach placed him should provide additional leverage to keep in his back pocket for now.  He may want to just start by asking the summer HC what the plan is going forward in regards to playing time.  This isn't straight up college ball where you completely have to earn any opportunity to play.  Like I said, there is usually some reasonable expectation of playing time distributed when the college coach refers a player.  Now, that said, it certainly may not be an expectation of even distribution.  Son's team has seven OF's on the roster and a few are really good and owners would flip if they were on an even distribution.  A tough balance.  

Hopefully, a mention/inquiry will either get him on the radar more frequently or let him know exactly where he stands, good or bad.  Then, if outlook is bad, he can look into other options if necessary that can include checking with the college HC to see what his thoughts are (at which point, he may be making a check-in call on your son's behalf) or asking for release so that he can find a setting that may be a better, more productive fit.  There is a lot of movement with these things sometimes.  There may be another team nearby in the same league that is losing an OF or two and he can be plugged right in.

Son has already had a couple of these conversations with players, explaining what he inherited and what he can and cannot do for them as well as his willingness and desire to put them in the best possible spot, including the possible option of release (in one instance) and talking to other summer coaches.  

Also, as i understand, attrition often happens during second half of the season.  Additional PT can certainly come about that way, although I know you don't want to hang your hat on a maybe.  From what you describe, my best guess would be that more platooning is likely as the season plays out.  Again, most of these guys don't want to play every day after finishing the grueling college season.  Hope you can find something helpful here.

Thanks. I don't believe it's worth it to ask for a release. Maybe it will come to that point but not now. We'll just advise him to let his college coaches know and if they want to they can deal with it. Mostly use it as a lesson learned and maybe be a little more proactive in finding a team next year. 

We did go see him last night. Sat with his host family. Just salt of the earth people. They are big supporters of the team. Had dinner with the general manager the evening before. So during the game he stated he noticed a core group of the kids were getting a lot of playing time. I took it as a sign from god. As of now that man knows exactly how I feel. What he decides to do with that knowledge is up to him but I'd assume it will make its way to the GM. 

Dad;

Playing in the Basin League in South Dakota, I recall the team roster constantly changing, players injured, released and "home sick".

Take extra BP, if you are a "hitter". Find a local player to throw BP at the HS Field. If you are a pitcher, study all hitters [opposing and your own], take notes. Run, don't walk. Keep the arm "loose". Hit fungo to your teammates.

Be ready for the "opportunity"!!! Be prepared. Do you have the 6th tool.

Bob

PS: my son played the Virginia Valley League and struck out 4 times in his 1st game and I expected him to be release, but he played 2 years.

Cabbagedad has a great read on the leagues!   Many factors involved unfortunately.  Also what may happen is that a coach inherited player as part of a package and knows nothing about them.  The player turns out to be a very good and now wants to keep rather than temp or play them more often.

Do we know that the center fielder will be there all summer? Perhaps he has an internship or other commitment, and can only play first part/half of the summer.

Hopefully it works out.

Also, the CF may be a returning player and played for the coach previously...we have a similar situation on our summer team where a kid is inexplicably in the line up (like halfway to the mendoza line) but last summer hit .400.  Its only been 10 games but I think he won't last much longer if he does not break out of the slump soon.

Summer collegiate league can be an eye opener. My son opened the season by hitting a batter, giving up a triple, then a single, K'd a guy, walked a guy and got pulled. That was June 6. He hasn't seen the mound since. Not sure why and no coach has even talked to him about it. He is the youngest player in the league, though and they carry 20 pitchers, so...

I am currently a hitting coach in the GSCL and I'm not sure what team you're talking about, hell maybe my team haha. I don't think I would put much stock into thinking the local kids get to play just because of them being local. However, I understand your frustration. I dealt with playing time issues all throughout my collegiate and professional career and it isn't fun. On my team we're having enough trouble trying to get guys playing time. We're playing to win but still honoring some contracts. Some very good players. I think the other thing to remember is what schools these kids go to. If its a big name school the coaches and gm will want to keep that school happy so they keep sending players back. 

<<...moved to podcast thread>>

somebaseballdad......my son's team plays your son's team tonight and tomorrow if the rain holds off.  Looks good as of now

Really. Looks like we may not make it tonight  Depends on when the wife gets home  Be there tomorrow if the rain holds off. 

I'm headed up to the Pacific Northwest for a long weekend... gonna try to catch a West Coast League game.  Checked the roster of the team I'm going to see...  23 pitchers, 8 OF's.  From the full roster, all but 3 are D1 guys.  A lot of very good players won't play a lot.  

Cabbagedad;

will you watch the Victoria Harborcats. Great city and the Head Coach is Brian McRae.

Bob

Thanks for the tip, Bob.  Unfortunately, not where I'll be.  In the Portland area... can't pass up on an opportunity to watch the Portland Pickles.  How cool will the t-shirts be?  

Pete; will you visit Nike in Beaverton? Frank Mutz is coaching Walla Walla.

Bob

yeah, I used to be in the biz... have visited the Nike campus several times.  Pretty amazing place.  I actually still have some work to do to talk the women into the ballgame.  My wife and I are visiting my daughter and we already have a pretty full schedule of activity... whitewater rafting, golf, hiking, town tour, day at Hood River...  As we speak, I am sending "go you mighty Pickles" texts to the girls, trying to close the deal on the ballgame   Sorry all, we should probably take this PM Bob   I hope Santa Rosa is well on the road to recovery!

My son's summer ball experience sucked. Son is a rising senior. Was offered a spot on a Cape team early last Fall through his college coach. Sons teammate, also a pitcher, was offered a spot on the same team late Spring, this kid is pretty good was drafted out of high school and played in the Cape last year for a full season. College coach is experienced and has sent several kids to the Cape in the past but not on this team. Both players head up early and watched a ton of other players show up. By the third game the team was at least 8 pitchers over the maximum amount allowed. After the third game both were told they were being released along with several others without ever touching a baseball. A complete waste of time and money but most importantly opportunity. Also pretty disrespectful to the host families. Pretty important time in these players lives. No, these players were not told they were place holders neither would have shown up for that.

Wow, a very interesting thread. As many know, I am the President of a summer league team and a lot of the comments above are spot on, and some not so much.  Typically, and there's no pattern that fits every team, coaches try early on to get everyone plenty of PT, and then let the "cream rise" (the exact expression my sons heard when they played in the league) as the season goes on.  If you can hit, they will find a spot, and if you can throw strikes and get outs, you can marry the GM's daughter. It also takes 25-45 at bats to get used to playing with wood. Some hitters adjust lightening fast, others can take quite a while. (Lots of guys have hit with wood in BP, but haven't hit facing 90-94 mph.) It is hard to be the parent of an athlete, a fact well-known to all. You adore your kid of course and want the best for them, and if it doesn't look like he is getting a fair shake, it hurts...and your spouse is probably in your ear about it frequently.  I have heard discussions where a player is kept because a team doesn't want to tick off his college coach, so if it is a close call, the kid from Clemson will get a fairer shake than a kid from Podunk University (and I apologize if there is such a place), but ultimately it's about performance. College coaches do get calls, and make calls, and when a kid is hitting .120 after 45 at bats, not many college coaches fuss at the summer team about PT. We  received a call from a college coach after one pitcher's horrible evening telling us to send him home-which we didn't and wouldn't do as we want him to get a chance to right his ship.    We currently have a guy hitting well below the  Ryan Flaherty line (Orioles fans will get it), our season is off to a lousy start, the kid is clearly over-matched..yet we probably exchanged 50 test messages internally about whether we release him and upgrade or stick with him.  When we had a prospect that was a clear upgrade, the parent in me was a stronger influence than the team president, and we maintained status quo.  The Cape is different from any other league-they cut, release, etc. on a dime, and lots of guys have gone up and  then are released before ever taking the field. Some pitchers that are released hang around hopeful they will get picked up, making it a "Cape or nothing" summer.   The best and most honest answer that I can give to all of the baseball moms and dads, and I was one for many years......"It's complicated".  Pray for your kids, be supportive, be as positive as possible-that's all a parent can really do.

compare posted:

My son's summer ball experience sucked. Son is a rising senior. Was offered a spot on a Cape team early last Fall through his college coach. Sons teammate, also a pitcher, was offered a spot on the same team late Spring, this kid is pretty good was drafted out of high school and played in the Cape last year for a full season. College coach is experienced and has sent several kids to the Cape in the past but not on this team. Both players head up early and watched a ton of other players show up. By the third game the team was at least 8 pitchers over the maximum amount allowed. After the third game both were told they were being released along with several others without ever touching a baseball. A complete waste of time and money but most importantly opportunity. Also pretty disrespectful to the host families. Pretty important time in these players lives. No, these players were not told they were place holders neither would have shown up for that.

The bolded should surprise nobody, the truth is what college baseball coaches expect and demand from the players would often get them fired in the real world...and many times sued as well.

It is the culture of the game from the top down and it won't change anytime in the near future. I do love when I read tweets from coaches about how they love the kids...all 35 to 45 of them they have on the roster!! They don't care about the kids, they care about having enough kids so they can do whatever they want and still be covered. All while expecting them to pay tuition and raise money...it is actually ridiculous when you really think about it.

In fairness they are least pretty open about it.

At the Cape, you can believe that "temp" means "temp". Lots of players take the temporary contract hopeful they can make such a good impression that they are asked to stay for the summer. While that does happen, it is not the norm.  The Cape is the Holy Grail and truth be known, players would sell their soul to get there.   Sitting at the Cape, or getting released after a week at the Cape will not help one's career as much as playing well over a season in the Valley, Northwoods, Coastal, etc.   We have had several players on our team (Valley League) receive offers from Cape teams for a full contract for the following summer so the Cape folks do look  around the country. 

Info on the Cape. Never committ unless your program has a solid relationship with the coaching staff. Also, it's not really a good place for rising seniors unless there is a strong possibility they might get drafted within first 10 rounds. I think Hokie best described how things work.

 While teams want to win, they also want to put a product on the field that attracts attention. This is good for business, so primarily it becomes a draft eligible league.

JMO

old_school posted:

compare posted:

My son's summer ball experience sucked. Son is a rising senior. Was offered a spot on a Cape team early last Fall through his college coach. Sons teammate, also a pitcher, was offered a spot on the same team late Spring, this kid is pretty good was drafted out of high school and played in the Cape last year for a full season. College coach is experienced and has sent several kids to the Cape in the past but not on this team. Both players head up early and watched a ton of other players show up. By the third game the team was at least 8 pitchers over the maximum amount allowed. After the third game both were told they were being released along with several others without ever touching a baseball. A complete waste of time and money but most importantly opportunity. Also pretty disrespectful to the host families. Pretty important time in these players lives. No, these players were not told they were place holders neither would have shown up for that.

The bolded should surprise nobody, the truth is what college baseball coaches expect and demand from the players would often get them fired in the real world...and many times sued as well.

It is the culture of the game from the top down and it won't change anytime in the near future. I do love when I read tweets from coaches about how they love the kids...all 35 to 45 of them they have on the roster!! They don't care about the kids, they care about having enough kids so they can do whatever they want and still be covered. All while expecting them to pay tuition and raise money...it is actually ridiculous when you really think about it.

In fairness they are least pretty open about it.

^^^^ This, this and this again.  Nothing is more true.  It's difficult listen to the broadcasters talk about how much a coach cares for his players and how these players happily sit and wait for any opportunity.  How a coach is a great communicator.  How "aw shucks", down home the guys appear during their interviews.  It's a complete fantasy that is created to hook into the emotion of fans who have watched "Rudy" one too many times. 

The reality is that College baseball is professional baseball.  Every person is being paid EXCEPT the players, and every person receiving a paycheck is as self serving as anyone who works to provide food and benefits for their family and will act and make decisions accordingly.  Remember this as you go through the recruiting process and continue through your son's career.

Nuke hit the nail on the head here.  Truer words have not been spoken or written on this site.

"The reality is that College baseball is professional baseball.  Every person is being paid EXCEPT the players, and every person receiving a paycheck is as self serving as anyone who works to provide food and benefits for their family and will act and make decisions accordingly".

Hokie One;

great summary of the strong Summer College Leagues. Having previous experience with the Virginia Valley League [my son played in 1990 with Winchester] and coached by a former Minor League Manager. "It is the learning experience that is important"

My experience was the old Basin League #1 in World. Each team roster included ex-professionals. Alumni in one year included 40 future MLB players [Dick Howser, Bob Gibson, Ron Perranoski]

Keep up the good work!!!!!

Bob

"Area Code games and Goodwill Series"

It's a "learning experience" all right> My son, having thrown only 0.1 innings in the 2 weeks he's been with the team and not having pitched since June 6, was told he's getting a start Sunday...in an exhibition against a local Babe Ruth team. He's frustrated, but all kidding aside, it may be an actual "learning lesson" in handling the types of frustration he's likely to see frequently if he thinks this is actually what he wants to do for a living.

Nuke83, Please don't lump all summer leagues with the college baseball issues. Our "paid" employees are the head coach, 2 assistants, and our trainer. Everyone else, top to bottom volunteers-ticket takers, souvenir shop, folks that work on the fields, mowers, announcers, and most importantly, host families.   Everything going on behind the scenes is strictly volunteers, and a lot goes on behind the scenes, from program printing to bus drivers to post-game meals every home game to anything else you can think of. We have 40-50 different people that volunteer in some aspect of the operation. The host families really enjoy their "summer sons" and tears are shed when they leave.  There are a lot of people that give of their time and talents so the players have a good experience and the community has a point of pride.   All of these folks are doing the right things for the right reasons. 

hokieone posted:

Nuke83, Please don't lump all summer leagues with the college baseball issues. Our "paid" employees are the head coach, 2 assistants, and our trainer. Everyone else, top to bottom volunteers-ticket takers, souvenir shop, folks that work on the fields, mowers, announcers, and most importantly, host families.   Everything going on behind the scenes is strictly volunteers, and a lot goes on behind the scenes, from program printing to bus drivers to post-game meals every home game to anything else you can think of. We have 40-50 different people that volunteer in some aspect of the operation. The host families really enjoy their "summer sons" and tears are shed when they leave.  There are a lot of people that give of their time and talents so the players have a good experience and the community has a point of pride.   All of these folks are doing the right things for the right reasons. 

My comment was on College baseball, not the summer leagues.  My reply was in the context that Old School posted which was more broad than summer leagues.

My son has had many, many host families on his journey and I completely appreciate all that the volunteers do and don't mean to detract in any way from their sacrifice and efforts.

Nuke83 posted:

old_school posted:

compare posted:

My son's summer ball experience sucked. Son is a rising senior. Was offered a spot on a Cape team early last Fall through his college coach. Sons teammate, also a pitcher, was offered a spot on the same team late Spring, this kid is pretty good was drafted out of high school and played in the Cape last year for a full season. College coach is experienced and has sent several kids to the Cape in the past but not on this team. Both players head up early and watched a ton of other players show up. By the third game the team was at least 8 pitchers over the maximum amount allowed. After the third game both were told they were being released along with several others without ever touching a baseball. A complete waste of time and money but most importantly opportunity. Also pretty disrespectful to the host families. Pretty important time in these players lives. No, these players were not told they were place holders neither would have shown up for that.

The bolded should surprise nobody, the truth is what college baseball coaches expect and demand from the players would often get them fired in the real world...and many times sued as well.

It is the culture of the game from the top down and it won't change anytime in the near future. I do love when I read tweets from coaches about how they love the kids...all 35 to 45 of them they have on the roster!! They don't care about the kids, they care about having enough kids so they can do whatever they want and still be covered. All while expecting them to pay tuition and raise money...it is actually ridiculous when you really think about it.

In fairness they are least pretty open about it.

^^^^ This, this and this again.  Nothing is more true.  It's difficult listen to the broadcasters talk about how much a coach cares for his players and how these players happily sit and wait for any opportunity.  How a coach is a great communicator.  How "aw shucks", down home the guys appear during their interviews.  It's a complete fantasy that is created to hook into the emotion of fans who have watched "Rudy" one too many times. 

The reality is that College baseball is professional baseball.  Every person is being paid EXCEPT the players, and every person receiving a paycheck is as self serving as anyone who works to provide food and benefits for their family and will act and make decisions accordingly.  Remember this as you go through the recruiting process and continue through your son's career.

Some of these comments are not true and sound like sour grapes.  Having a coach son, he cares so much for his players, you wouldn't believe what lengths he goes to, just to make them better people not just better pitchers. He works harder at his job than most anyone does. Coaching at the college level isn't easy! If the players don't buy in, are disrespectful which often happens, parents get in the way, there is nothing you can do about it and it's their loss. 

College baseball IS NOT and never will be professional baseball.

There is a perception from many parents here that it's often the coaches fault, the program sucks, blah, blah.  Not always true. Yes, some of these coaches are tough to deal with at times, but funny thing is that these will be the coaches your sons will always remember. Some kids have been spoiled so much its hard for them to adjust.

As most of you know, sons college coach was Kevin O'Sullivan. Sully could be your worst nightmare, if you didn't do what was expected of you. But reality is, he is the coach of a National Championship team, gets to Omaha every year for a reason, and he gets his pitchers to the next level every year, not one or two but many.

Patrick Jones posted:

I am currently a hitting coach in the GSCL and I'm not sure what team you're talking about, hell maybe my team haha. I don't think I would put much stock into thinking the local kids get to play just because of them being local. However, I understand your frustration. I dealt with playing time issues all throughout my collegiate and professional career and it isn't fun. On my team we're having enough trouble trying to get guys playing time. We're playing to win but still honoring some contracts. Some very good players. I think the other thing to remember is what schools these kids go to. If its a big name school the coaches and gm will want to keep that school happy so they keep sending players back. 

Well let's see. The center fielder isn't necessarily fast, hasn't shown a standout arm, isn't defensively head and shoulders better than the other outfielders and has one of the lowest batting averages on the team. Yet he has played almost every inning and every AB of every game. Does he deserve to play, yes. Has he done anything to monopolize play in CF? No, not even close.

Now, as someone mentioned maybe he has commitments and won't be there the whole season. 

From experience, Summer league management is made from folks like HokieOne.  They spend nearly 40 weeks each year so that our sons have an opportunity for 8 weeks each year.  Having a successful Summer team for those who run the team is a time intensive effort that few of us or our sons ever realize.  Luckily, we got to spend a considerable amount of time with the management of 2 different Summer teams where our son played and learned first hand how much they do before  our sons arrive in their town and after they leave.

With that background, playing time very often is not about what some other teammate is or is not doing. It is what our son is doing. Is he early, is he doing early work, is he staying late, is he doing everything off the field and within the Community that they hope he will do. Is  he keeping himself ready for any opportunity which arises, and how does he perform when that happens.

One Summer, ours (a former D3 kid) got moved aside when a drop down from the Cape was signed.  He happened to be a starting  SEC shortstop.  However, ours was not moved off the line up card. He then played every game the rest of the Summer at 2B, 3B and any game at shortstop the head coach felt the SEC guy needed "to rest."

Whether it is college baseball, Summer league baseball, or any level of Milb and MLB above, sometimes things are not fair in terms of playing time. However, if a player does everything off the field to be fully ready and then performs on the field when the opportunity arises, they play. 

It is not what the other guy is doing or not. 

A player gets playing time by doing the things he can control and doing them better and more often than anyone else and then performing when his opportunity on the field arises.  Success occurs when 1000 hours of preparation meets one moment of opportunity!

Here's the rankings of the top teams so far this year:

http://www.collegiatesummerbas...lege-baseball-teams/

Whoa! Nice!!

We have a members son who is the HC for one of those teams!

He's talked to the coach a couple of times and was given three options. 1. Go home. 2. Coach calls and voices his displeasure (ripp them is the word he used). 3. Get released and find another team. 

We are going to try option 3. The kid went as a two way. Just so happened they had 4 pitchers go down so the first year they asked him to PO. He reluctantly agreed. Before the start of official practice the PC decided to change his delivery. That did not go well. By the time they gave up on the PO thing the season was basically over. So if he were to come home he'd get to campus this fall and compete for a spot not having played "live" baseball for over a year. I also get the feeling there was an agreement as to playing time the team did not keep. Because the coach is being a lot more supportive than I thought he would be. I guess agreeing to the PO thing probably helped. He and the coach talked about it after the season and he agreed the kid got the shaft on that one. 

I can't say I'm optimistic though. I can't believe find a spot will be easy. On the other hand the kid can add am arm to the pitching staff. We'll see, disappointing to say the least. This was daddy ball stuff. 

SomeBaseballDad posted:

He's talked to the coach a couple of times and was given three options. 1. Go home. 2. Coach calls and voices his displeasure (ripp them is the word he used). 3. Get released and find another team. 

We are going to try option 3. The kid went as a two way. Just so happened they had 4 pitchers go down so the first year they asked him to PO. He reluctantly agreed. Before the start of official practice the PC decided to change his delivery. That did not go well. By the time they gave up on the PO thing the season was basically over. So if he were to come home he'd get to campus this fall and compete for a spot not having played "live" baseball for over a year. I also get the feeling there was an agreement as to playing time the team did not keep. Because the coach is being a lot more supportive than I thought he would be. I guess agreeing to the PO thing probably helped. He and the coach talked about it after the season and he agreed the kid got the shaft on that one. 

I can't say I'm optimistic though. I can't believe find a spot will be easy. On the other hand the kid can add am arm to the pitching staff. We'll see, disappointing to say the least. This was daddy ball stuff. 

First, it's not "we".  It's "he". 

Second, there are 4/5 weeks left of the season. At any given moment, in any sport, in every program, some player is asked to step up. It always happens. Take BA with the team, work in the gym to get in the best shape he can to be prepared for the fall.

Instead of trying to go somewhere else where roles have been established, work on being prepared. What many parents fail to realize is everyone at one point has to learn this is how the real world works. Life isnt always fair.  

And yes, sounds like sour grapes. Only a few folks know this but when son was with one ML organization, he sat for games at a time, with better stats. It was tough. Came playoffs, he was asked to step up. He did.

Never once came here with sour grapes.

JMO

I appreciate your input 

Do you understand what projecting is? 

If you had any idea how big of a critic I've been of my son. The words that have been exchanged between us. What he went through trying to continue to play baseball after a serious injury and the time he put in coming back from that you might somewhat understand what a misguided assholish post you just made. JMO

For context here's a text I received from him not long ago  

"you’re such an asshole that whenever you say dumb shit like that it motivates even more to prove you wrong all the time so honestly thank you for being an idiot" .

Many of our sons have been through a lot more than you might imagine.

This assholish posting mom doesnt give a rats, you know what, how big of a critic you have been of your son. 

TPM posted:

Many of our sons have been through a lot more than you might imagine.

This assholish posting mom doesnt give a rats, you know what, how big of a critic you have been of your son. 

 

Really? When you went in to your son's room to tell him to get ready did he tell you "just a minute"? So that you did not see that he rolled out of bed and crawled across the floor and crawled up the wall to get dressed? Because he knew if you saw that you wouldn't have let him play.

Like I said, do you know what projecting is? Don't judge me by what you or others you know would have done. Your post says more about you than I. 

Please don't act like your son has ever been the only one to have a serious injury.

Get over it. 

This is getting pretty personal.  I'd ask both of you to step back and rethink your posts.  Injuries are tough for both players and parents.  I think many of us have been there.  My daughter played the last 17 games of her college career on a leg/knee that was injured.  Knowing that both of you have had the stress of dealing with a hurt child should enable both of you to empathize with each other.  I hope both of you will rethink your approach to this thread.  

CoachB25 posted:

This is getting pretty personal.  I'd ask both of you to step back and rethink your posts.  Injuries are tough for both players and parents.  I think many of us have been there.  My daughter played the last 17 games of her college career on a leg/knee that was injured.  Knowing that both of you have had the stress of dealing with a hurt child should enable both of you to empathize with each other.  I hope both of you will rethink your approach to this thread.  

Thanks Coach B but somehow this topic about not getting enough time in the game this summer, turned into being injured and some father/son stuff that has nothing to do with me, got nasty.

Several of our players are starting to drop. Lost three players in the last week due to homesick and injuries. This is the hardest part of the summer. Its starting to get hot outside and if players aren't playing or don't have good numbers they panic. Control what you can control. Take every AB seriously. I always tell me guys "be selfish in the box" the game can get out of hand at times but your statistics don't care. 

Patrick Jones posted:

Several of our players are starting to drop. Lost three players in the last week due to homesick and injuries. This is the hardest part of the summer. Its starting to get hot outside and if players aren't playing or don't have good numbers they panic. 

I could only hope. We won a game 27-6 and some of the kids had 1-2 AB's and some had 5,6,7. Let see, get some kids some playing time or allow the local kids to pad their numbers..... decisions, decisions.

Now about my earlier post. Shouldn't have mentioned the kids injury. Was pointless and knee jerk. That said this thread was started looking for advice/experience not opinions as to my state of mind. I see all kinds of posts here that I my have an opinion as to subject matter or the OP. I tend to keep them to myself. 

Sour grapes? I guess, whatever. I was glad when the kid wasn't sent to a more competitive league. He doesn't need that, he needs reps. It was encouraging to receive a email from the GM stating how our players development was their number one priority and how seriously they took it. That was BS. 

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Patrick Jones posted:

Several of our players are starting to drop. Lost three players in the last week due to homesick and injuries. This is the hardest part of the summer. Its starting to get hot outside and if players aren't playing or don't have good numbers they panic. 

I could only hope. We won a game 27-6 and some of the kids had 1-2 AB's and some had 5,6,7. Let see, get some kids some playing time or allow the local kids to pad their numbers..... decisions, decisions.

Now about my earlier post. Shouldn't have mentioned the kids injury. Was pointless and knee jerk. That said this thread was started looking for advice/experience not opinions as to my state of mind. I see all kinds of posts here that I my have an opinion as to subject matter or the OP. I tend to keep them to myself. 

Sour grapes? I guess, whatever. I was glad when the kid wasn't sent to a more competitive league. He doesn't need that, he needs reps. It was encouraging to receive a email from the GM stating how our players development was their number one priority and how seriously they took it. That was BS. 

Big mistake in perspective in my view.

Summer league baseball is about the team, competing and having success.  It is not about meeting any individual expectations of any player and especially a parent!

There is at least as much responsibility on the player as there is on the team when it comes to development, especially knowing those folks have been working so many days, weeks and months for players to show up and give 100% for about 60 days.

Thinking Summer teams are there to serve any individual need is not only a huge mistake, it borders on insulting to those who created an opportunity!!!

infielddad posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

Patrick Jones posted:

Several of our players are starting to drop. Lost three players in the last week due to homesick and injuries. This is the hardest part of the summer. Its starting to get hot outside and if players aren't playing or don't have good numbers they panic. 

I could only hope. We won a game 27-6 and some of the kids had 1-2 AB's and some had 5,6,7. Let see, get some kids some playing time or allow the local kids to pad their numbers..... decisions, decisions.

Now about my earlier post. Shouldn't have mentioned the kids injury. Was pointless and knee jerk. That said this thread was started looking for advice/experience not opinions as to my state of mind. I see all kinds of posts here that I my have an opinion as to subject matter or the OP. I tend to keep them to myself. 

Sour grapes? I guess, whatever. I was glad when the kid wasn't sent to a more competitive league. He doesn't need that, he needs reps. It was encouraging to receive a email from the GM stating how our players development was their number one priority and how seriously they took it. That was BS. 

Big mistake in perspective in my view.

Summer league baseball is about the team, competing and having success.  It is not about meeting any individual expectations of any player and especially a parent!

There is at least as much responsibility on the player as there is on the team when it comes to development, especially knowing those folks have been working so many days, weeks and months for players to show up and give 100% for about 60 days.

Thinking Summer teams are there to serve any individual need is not only a huge mistake, it borders on insulting to those who created an opportunity!!!

If winning is the main goal then maybe the email should have read "Your players development is important to us but we need to field a winning team blah, blah, blah. If that's the case it would seem you would coach accordingly.  Most teams, after a certain amount of losses, will try different lineups in hopes of finding a better combination. Not playing the same people loss after loss to last place in the league. Nor would they do things like down by 2 with 2 out and 2 on bottom 9th pull a kid hitting .400 from the on deck circle and replace him with one hitting .160. Is that how they play winning baseball where you come from? 

Back to the email. It could have read "your kids development is important to us. However  in an effort to increase revenue and keep the doors open we will give the majority of playing time to local talent in an effort to bring fans to the park".  I could understand that  I may not like it but I would have appreciated the honesty. Like I said, if this were 8U TB or LL it wouldn't have come as a surprise. Now I know so if it happens again it's on us. 

That teams stats show no one hitting over .350 so your reference to the .400 hitter being pulled is lacking!

Your post come across as though you feel your son was promised something and is owed something by the Summer league team.  What is he owed other than a spot on the roster. Seemingly, for your son to "given" "development," some other player(s) innings would need to be reduced. 

That team has 5 outfielders. One is clearly performing at a different level than the other 4.

From their stats page, it appears 3 outfielders are hitting below the Mendoza line but with nearly equal opportunities in games, innings and AB's.  Total AB's for the 3 are 38, 38 and 37.  There is nothing meaningfully different between the 3 from the stats page.  Why should one be "given" some preference, as your continuing posting suggests should happen. Just because he is your son is not a reason to be posting negatives about the team and GM.  Your son cannot be "given" anything unless playing time is taken away for other teammates.  From the stats page, it appears every outfielder is being given an opportunity to perform and separate himself. At the midpoint in the season, only one did that.

If you were to have really read through this thread you would know I said one of the outfielders was really good and deserved his playing time. When the AB occurred earlier in the year there were two players hitting over 400. My son being one of them but not the one that was pulled.

Yes my kids average has tanked. He did however start the season tearing it up. Regardless of that playing time was rewarded to a local kid who has never put up good numbers  The other two outfielders never got going but they never really had a chance. It's kind of hard to get into any rhythm at the plate when you get two at bats every 3 or 4 days because 3 people are sharing time at one position.

I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time with this. This team is taking care of a local kid and screwing three others out of playing time. It is what it is Sherlock Holmes.

That all said it's time for this thread to die  Cabbage and others who offered some good advice, thank you  The kids coach called and was promised playing time would increase. So he has asked the kid to stick with it and be a good teammate.  

Bottom line is it doesn't matter who the coaches play because it's out of your control. It's really none of your business. Playing time is something that needs to be addressed between the player and the coach .

Your son has a decision to make . If he wants to get tuned up and ready to return to his school and compete for a spot in the fall,  which is only 8-10 weeks from now , he may want to inquire about a summer ball league close to home . Some place where he'll get playing time . It doesn't matter how tough the league is. He needs Reps . IMO a kid is better off playing in a men's Sunday league and a low level summer program and or training with a hitting coach, A strength and conditioning coach or even track coach at a local University than he is sitting in a summer league.

Summer time for College players is about adding, getting better. Period. There are a multitude of ways to accomplish that . Summer ball is just one of them . The main thing is that he returns to school better and or bigger , stronger , faster than when he left .

The kid has came home for all star break and I got a chance to talk to him face to face. He said one of the other outfielders confronted the coach about playing time and was told he had promised the coaches of the two kids they would receive the majority of the playing time. So some of you that offered advice were right. I guess welcome to the big leagues and so on. And I guess the kids coaches didn't take care of their own.

That said it really doesn't sit well with me. I was a manager for 30+ years and no matter what else anyone might say about me they always knew where they stood. I never mislead anyone about their standing on the crew or with me. To send an email stating how important my sons development was to them and how seriously they took the responsibility, all the time knowing they were going to screw the kid.... I guess I would have made a poor baseball coach.

Ten months ago I'm sitting at my kids HS game talking to a scout that's watched him closely the last four years and telling him the kid wouldn't accept low round slot money. That the wife and I thought college was the best path for him. And now here I sit watching the kid sit the bench because some mook azz coach made promises to some other coaches that at the end of the day could care less it the guy lived or died. Between the kid being forced into a PO because of injuries at college and now this mess the wife and I have done a lot of soul searching.