AAU vs Travel

As far as I could tell AAU tournaments were pretty much the same as USSSA and CABA tournaments. Some tournaments the competition was very good, others not so good. I didn't notice any difference in how the tournaments were run.

AAU is just too darned expensive and the paperwork requirements are obnoxious. Once you realize what USSSA, CABA and a few others can do for you, you have to ask yourself why you want to mess with AAU. You sure don't get much for your dollar.

And around here, there are no AAU personnel to speak of, whereas with USSSA, there's a state rep who will bust his hind parts to help you.

I agree with Midlo Dad and golfball (golf?)

my opinion - With the entrance of USSSA in North Carolina, tourneys can go either way with strength. It allows for further dillution - more slots avaliable for teams, the more teams will form. (Which is great for younger players.) Ccoaches can be more selective about where they want to play. Some will always play up, others just wanting to win, will enter tourneys where they think teams are weaker.

I've noticed an influx of 14 and 15u teams, apparently an effort to prepare players for High Shcool.

A program will be as strong as the people behind it running the tournament. A name is just a name.

Find someone that runs a good tournament and you will find the teams. The tournament directors that put on good tournaments attract the teams and they sell out. We have several different ones from our area but as a parent (and used to be team mom) certain ones we looked forward to more because we knew how it would be run and that there would be good competition.

I wish everyone thought like you BBFam... :-)

-Adam

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
...And around here, there are no AAU personnel to speak of, whereas with USSSA, there's a state rep who will bust his hind parts to help you.

MidloDad,

I have found the EXACT opposite in VA. The USSSA guy for the state is not very strong while AAU bends over backwards for teams.

In my area this is practically hardly any AAU but USSSA. Most teams will play both but will mostly play USSSA b.c. it is cheaper and less of an hassle. The only problem i have seen with USSSA is not to many other states have it like if you go to a national tourny most teams are from the same area. AAU i have found will get more teams from wide areas in a national tournament

USSSA is the best game in town this year
in the Sacremento area,but Super Series
Triple Crown,BPA & AAU all have tournaments
here or close by.

Redbird,

I'll confess my info is maybe 2 years old, so I'm glad to hear that AAU is doing a better job in VA. Lord knows there was room for improvement.

In the old days, you had to pretty much go in person to their office in a warehouse district in Richmond to get anyone to answer a question for you. There was a very helpful lady there -- one person to cover all AAU activities in all sports. The rest of the program involved trying to get teams to organize and run tourneys and collect fees for AAU. They held a meeting every February at a hotel near their office and the main topic of conversation was usually, who's going to step up and host our state tourneys for us?

I talked to the guy who ran the states in Hampton/Newport News a few years back -- I think it was 2004. He was left to do it all himself, then at the last minute the AAU guy swooped in and decided to redo all the seedings, pools, and schedules -- twice in the last 24 hours before play began. It created mass confusion.

After the first redo, our team was set to play its first pool game at 8 p.m. on Friday night of the tourney weekend. Our boys didn't get out of school in Richmond until 3 p.m., so we were going to have to hustle to get them home, changed, packed and down I-64, but we had it covered. I took the day off work to go down ahead of the team and attend the coaches' meeting. At that meeting, a new schedule was distributed and suddenly we were supposed to play at 5 p.m. Luckily I wasn't the only one affected, so the meeting turned into a riot without my having to say anything. So, then the "official" AAU guy bailed and let the local guy take all the heat. (Our game got moved to the end of the Friday schedule and we played at 9:30 that night.)

To his credit, the local guy did a nice job the rest of the way. It rained some at the tourney's end, and he provided all the grounds crews, everything. I think his team got to keep a few thousand dollars out of the tourney revenues as their reward for doing all the work.

USSSA went the extra mile for us lots of times. The main guy is based near Petersburg so maybe our proximity helped us get better service. I know he personally helped organize fall travel leagues in the Richmond area. NEVER have I seen AAU do that. I don't know that they've ever had staff to do that.

I still am on the USSSA e-mail list and they appear very active. There never was an AAU list, never heard from 'em, still don't.

I don't know what the rates are these days, but if you need team insurance and you just want to play from tourney to tourney, I would recommend you at least check into the USSSA options because you'll save your team budget a few hundred dollars at least. I took a team to East Cobb last summer and I got the insurance PG/WWBA required from USSSA. It was by far the least expensive option.

Here in New England, AAU ball IS travel ball. There really is no other organization that has any kind of presence. That being said, Triple Crown does sponsor some tournaments in Branford, CT during the summer.

I've been very happy with my involvement with AAU baseball over the past 2 years. Very well run, very competitive. And the New England AAU league has tripled in membership since 2004.

ECTB, which runs USSSA out of Pennsylvania into New Jersey and New York has started running tournaments in Connecticut.

We have been playing travel ball in TX for several years and I don't think that I have even seen an AAU tournament here. Mainly USSSA a little Super Series and Triple Crown.
We are planning on going to Steamboat this year for Triple Crown WS

AAU = $60 Youth Club Per Membership Year plus individual player registrations with both AAU national, and the the local franchise... For us in Florida it's Sunshine Athletics - Ran by for MLBer Chet Lemon & and his wife Gigi... $10 per player per season and coach for Sunshine, we had 12 players, and 5 coaches = $170 per season... I think it's $12 for the AAU national fee per calendar year, per coach and per player, so that's an additional $204... Plus you had to pay $50 to go to the AAU Manager's meeting so you could make your doubleheader schedule (they also “announce” their tournament schedule at this meeting, so you can’t pre-schedule). Oh yeah, There is also a $10 insurance fee per location so we practiced at 2 different locations, and our doubleheaders were at another, so that was another $30 per season... Another thing we had to do was if we had kids tryout, they had to sign-up for and AAU membership on-line ($12), and if they were good, and we wanted to use them for a weekend doubleheader, I had to run to Sunshine's local bank, with their deposit # and deposit $10 in their Bank Account before Friday to get them on our roster for a Sunday DH... Plus, you had to use “Sunshine Athletics” Diamond Baseballs for you doubleheaders, which are $28.95 per dz.

So AAU’s final number’s for just league fees, and to play doubleheaders is:
$60 + $170 + $204 + $50 + $30 + $57.90 = $571.90

USSSA = No individual player registration fees, $35 USSSA Team fee (annually), $135 USSSA Insurance fee - which covers the team everywhere, and $100 Florida Travel Ball (USSSA Franchise) League Fee. You can use your own balls, so I’ll put in $25 per dozen for Diamonds. Also, USSSA Tournaments are announced prior to the FREE Manager’s meeting, so you can get a jump on field rentals and such…

So USSSA’s final number’s for just league fees, and to play doubleheaders is:
$35 + $135 +$100 + $50 = $320.00

The USSSA website is easy and straight-forward to use for managing a single roster, re-registering, and such - it’s a breeze… AAU has it’s own website where you have register your Club each year and you're assigned a different team number every year, then register each individual member, then provide their cards and their AAU registration ID numbers to the local franchise so they can provide them another local registration ID number and laminated picture cards…

Of course, all this is before any Uniform/Tournament/Field/Umpire/etc. fees you may or may not run into…

In my experience, once USSSA moves in, they start stealing business from AAU. In Florida the DIRECTOR of the state AAU office has his own teams in each age group. (Can anyone say conflict of interest?) If you were an umpire-who would you favor? The guy who's organizatiuon hires you, or some coach/team you may never see again? AAU usually has more inferior umpires, and you get seeded in tournaments based on how many "points" (read AAU games you play) you have. Consequently, you may have a team of cherry picked players getting a lower seed than a "neighborhood" team that plays aau doubleheaders every weekend. USSSA is the best thing that has happened in Florida youth baseball in a long time!

quote:

Consequently, you may have a team of cherry picked players getting a lower seed than a "neighborhood" team that plays aau doubleheaders every weekend.

They're rewarding the teams that do more business with them. It's not an unusual business practice. Every heard of frequent flyer miles? What does it matter where you're seeded in pool play? If you win two of three, or better in pool play you get a good seed in the elimination round.

I've been doing this probably longer than anybody on here. We started in 1992 (won 15&U AAU Nationals that year when it meant something). USSSA sucks like all the rest of them at the national level. I've been to the Elite 24 the last couple years and it was run atrociously, with complete disregard for the teams and their concerns (poor field conditions like not dragging the stadium once after the first game and proper rest when they had time slots when they got to the end of the tournament).

It's very simple- they are all about money, period. What to do? Good question. I think I will start a thread about that in the next few days.

quote:

If you were an umpire-who would you favor? The guy who's organizatiuon hires you, or some coach/team you may never see again? AAU usually has more inferior umpires,

I dont favor anyone.......certainly dont care who hires me........there is enough baseball that I and many other dont "owe" anything to anybody....

The only thing I agree with in that statement is that an "inferior umpire" is one who cares who hires him because his lack of ability keeps him from the better games..

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
I've been doing this probably longer than anybody on here. We started in 1992 (won 15&U AAU Nationals that year when it meant something). USSSA sucks like all the rest of them at the national level. I've been to the Elite 24 the last couple years and it was run atrociously, with complete disregard for the teams and their concerns (poor field conditions like not dragging the stadium once after the first game and proper rest when they had time slots when they got to the end of the tournament).

It's very simple- they are all about money, period. What to do? Good question. I think I will start a thread about that in the next few days.

At the local level a tournament will be as good as the people organizing it. The brand name is irrelevant. When SATB (Delaware) changed from USSSA to CABA it didn't change anything. When ECTB (Pennsylvania) changed from AAU to USSSA it didn't change anything.

RJM- No doubt about it. We have a local USSSA guy that runs a very good tournament. That said, USSSA is set up like Heroin. The more you buy, the more you are rewarded with points. They get these stupid teams hooked chasing $10 trophies.

ncball,

I saw you posted that you may start a thread on where to go with Travel Ball... I think that would be a great topic. I have often wondered the same thing.

Since Little League, youth baseball has been about chasing those cheap trophies. I think it was more about what the trophies represented - a piece of hardware stating that your team (collective accomplishments among the players) was the best ( or second best) a particular season or tournament. With the internet, I think USSSA's website accomplishes something similar; points and tournament wins showing everyone who is doing well and who isn't. If you travel somewhere to compete and win and nobody knows about it... reminds me of the old saying "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it make a sound?"

HS baseball has CCS , some local press coverage and a couple of websites for standings & maybe some message board posts... And that is only for Varsity really. So for most kids, first two years of HS ball are obscure. I guess you really have to love the game!

Travel ball is not an easy proposition for players or parents. You have teams based out of baseball academies that naturally have to run it as a business - must be very difficult be in the black and have a competitive teams. There is always the pay versus playing time issue. There are teams run by dad managers on ego trips and/or visions of glory for their kids and the kids of others who are "drinking the KoolAid". Most of it is "word of mouth" so it is difficult to find the right fit for your kid... There is certianly of lot areas that could use improvement!

I noticed Adam F. has made an attempts with the U13 Elite league... I would love to see an update on how that is working out. What worked and what didn't...

I have noticed that a lot of local HS end up putting summer teams together for PONY for those 15+ of age rather than doing Travel Ball. Looks like 14U is really the " peak" for travel. Sure, you have tournaments for 15-18 but not as many as say 11- 14 year olds. Just pointing out another area that could be improved on for travel Ball. My son is just finishing HS (Freshman) ball and it was not easy figuring out where to play summer baseball. Ended up having to do a "hybrid" solution of two seperate programs. Not sure how things will work out - one can only hope for the best!

Some early feedback on the 13u Elite League in N. Cal...

The Good: Kids are getting a lot of at bats against quality pitchers. Far far more than if the teams played in 2 or 3 different "open" tournaments and good hitters got 2 quality ab's in a weekend. Most of the teams are well-coached and the level of play has increased so far. Using the USA Baseball pitching rules is great and makes me feel better about what we're doing - more guys pitch and no one is being badly over-pitched. Playing with no time limits is great. Playing with no ties is great. Cost is less than a similar # of tournament games.


The Bad: Fields have been a murderously difficult challenge. Not all of the teams have been fully on board. We lost one team a week before the season b/c they disbanded (presumably over whether or not to participate in the league). Injury and illness have hurt a couple of the teams. 4 game series (28 innings) may be too much and we may be wearing out some families.


Early conclusions: We plan on doing it again next year, but we are thinking of doing a 7th/8th Grade league at 60/90 rather than just a 13u. We would move to 3-game series and put tighter controls on coaching (through some sort of training or certification process yet to be devised). We also need to do a better job of making sure all teams in the league have the coaching and talent to compete with the top teams.

The hard part to figure is whether to work with the structure of the existing travel teams or compete with it. In other words, should we just get 8 great coaches in their region and promote the heck out it OR should we try to make what's already there just a little better?

Thanks for the update Adam. I'll share some of my thoughts in case it helps...

I think you are on the right track with the 7th/8th grade league. IMO, having it run Jan - mid-May would be good- it would compete with PONY baseball and some travel tournaments. Come mid-May, those teams could do travel tournaments. Some 14U HS Freshman choose to do 14U travel and they help bring up the competitive level in U14's from May - August. Some others choose to do PONY all-stars during that time. They basically play 5-6 PONY games after HS Freshman ball and get put on the Allstar team bumping out kids that played the whole PONY season. I would rather see these kids do local travel tourneys (though many like the artificial ego boost in PONY all-stars). And of course there is U-15 and U-16 ball - but these teams often have a hard time getting started...
The May - Aug time frame is obviously the "peak" season for travel ball. I would not have a league at that time and would promote getting the best ball players onto the best teams for the best ball games. And to best represent N. California baseball versus S. California and the rest of the country. Once August comes around, you lose good players to HS football ( mandatory conditioning and practices start) and the baseball levels drops off a bit. Maybe an opportunity to do a Fall Elite season then to get kids ready for HS tryouts?

So I say the Elite and travel can both exist and should be timed to complement each other. I also think there should be better forums where various teams can ( or should be strongly encouraged) to post their plans, needs, etc... and families can see what the possible options are: league ball, Elite leagues, travel teams, etc...) And there could be a distribution among these teams to match talent to teams. This way you would hopefully end up with more local Majors level teams, AAA teams could compete against AAA teams ( fewer "open" tournaments), players not as strong could enjoy baseball in a league "rec ball" setting...

I know this is all easier said than done. But that would be my vision on what to accomplish.

Adam:

Rumor has it you will be having a 8th grade "elite league" next year. I assume this is similar to what NorCal has done with their "junior high" team. Is there any information on how this will work? The information about this years elite league came out so late (most rosters were already set) that many kids were left out and did not have an opportunity to play or even tryout.

Ncball - do you have any information on this rumor?

warningtrack- Our teams are all grade-based, not just for the spring. We made the change to fit what makes the most sense for our players through high school as well as more continuity in the spring for our youngsters. The problem we all have is that the May 1 age cut has forced 25% of players down and the balance by grade is 50/50. We feel its a disservice to a 9th-grader to play with middle school kids after playing high school.

Regarding Adam's intentions, I believe you are correct that it will be 8th-graders.

For the record--I love the grade based teams. It is great for the boys to be playing with kids at the grade they are in. We went and watched a local tournament this weekend with some 8th grade "13's". These boys haven't played with kids their own age yet. They will have only been on a regular size field for the fall and that is "if" they don't play football. I don't see any advantage keeping them down. They may be a "stud" on their team but how to they rate with their own grade?

BBfam- Great point! That kid will have a false sense of security and probably not be as prepared as he should be for school baseball.

Unfortunately it is kid(s). Most of which will be future teammates. And you are right, they think they are great ballplayers (which they might be) but when compared to what we've seen, not even in the same ballpark. For our area it may work out but if those same kids lived in a larger area, they could be in trouble.

ncball,

I agree that the grade based system is logical but a key factor for things to work out is that the 8th grade players should be 14. If a player was 14 and in 9th grade ( like my son and quite a few other players I know) and they wanted to tryout for your Freshman team they wouldn't have a chance. Looking at your freshman roster - I think most if not all those players are 15 and on JV if not Varsity already. Now of course you have the premier team in N. Cal and it is an honor for 14 year olds to even make your 8th grade team... My point is that in the real world it is hard to create compartments and have everything fit in those compartments... And do you see 14 year olds in 9th grade at a disadvantage? For instance, I know of players who were held back to repeat 8th grade (sent to private schools) even though they had great GPAs so that they would be 15 as freshman. You can PM me and I'll give the name of one that used to be on your roster that was held back with a 4.0 GPA!

As another real world example, a big N. Cal tourney coming up this month is this one: http://www.triplecrownsports.com/whoscoming.asp?results...rtid=1&tournyid=3033

I personally know a lot of HS Freshman that will be playing this U14 tourney so my guess is that every team will have some. I think the level of ball played will be pretty good and I don't think it will hurt them. In fact I think these teams are better than most U15 AAA teams. And I don't see a lot of tourneys out there for U15s in May - June...

I know your intentions are honorable - just saying the real world may not fit into a well layed out structure. One last point - in the example tourney I used, most teams are not from academies that have multiple teams. They are " one of" teams looking for the best players they can find to try and compete. In fact, as you know, "academy teams" are on the decline!

Regarding the Elite League. Our intention at this point is to do the league again but re-vamp a couple of things:

(1) We would make it open to 14-u 8th graders and play on 60/90. This should eliminate some of the field issues we faced getting 54/80 fields for league games this season.

(2) We will play 3 game series instead of 4. This will keep families from burning out too quickly.

(3) We will end around Mid-May when the HS players start returning.


I think with good coaches on board, this should be an appealing option for 8th graders who otherwise face a difficult couple months finding competition at 14u.

Still dealing with the question of whether to work with the existing travel teams or create something entirely different...

--Adam

bbdad2007- I'm trying to keep it apples to apples. Don't use my program as an example for if a player would make a team or not make a team. Good 14 year old freshmen will find it boring to play down with younger guys against teams of 8th and 9th graders.

FYI- We have 14's that we put on our roster at the freshman level. It is our goal for our kids to play at the next level. That means playing with kids at least the same grade as you (your future competition). If not, you are going backwards. Doesn't make sense to me.

Regarding your example of a kid staying back- it doesn't matter. Your son will still have to compete against that kid in high school as well as for a spot in college one day. As you know, THAT is the exception to the rule.

Finally, your last comment only makes my model and reasoning stronger. Are you putting a team together to "be competitive" or are you putting it together to help the kids get to the next level. How are you helping that 9th grader you are recruiting to help your 14 year old team be successful when he should be playing against older competition to push himself to get better.

Bottom line- My design IS for kids who want to play at the next level. You used our team as the exception to the rule. I would argue that there are tons of great kids out there who have the same ability and aspirations as our players and the same advantages of this model would apply to them. Mark my words- this evolution will happen at the higher level HS-aged and middle-school teams with 2-3 years.

ncball - I understand that you are trying to keep things "apples to apples". My observations have been that in the real world it's more like a fruit salad... Travel ball can certainly use some development and growth - and I hope it grows in the direction you are taking.

For the record, I am just a parent and do not coach or manage a team. I am posting here because I found the subject interesting and it's great to have the type of audience on this board which includes the likes of yourself and Adam as examples...

You asked "Are you putting a team together to "be competitive" or are you putting it together to help the kids get to the next level?" I take it from that statement that your program is to help kids get to the next level. I believe that is true for a lot of kids. But what about the kids you cut to make room for the new/better kids you recruit? You are always adding the best players you can find including some from out of state... There's only so much playing time to go around. And aren't you adding the new talent to make the team more competitive?

In my personal situtation, my son is slated to play on two teams in the summer/fall - one U14 and one U16. There is some overlap but no real conflicts between the two teams. The U14 tourneys end at the end of July and the U16 tourneys are mostly Aug- Nov. This was the best solution I could find - believe me I wish things were a lot easier in terms of having a good program, close to home, in one neat package!

Speaking to my son and to other players/parents with travel and HS experience - they have found travel tourneys more exciting than HS Frosh / JV ball. I think things change with HS Varsity ( it's clear that is where all the attention goes). So for now, they are all looking forward to the next few months of Travel Ball - trying to make it to the championship game is never boring no matter what age level! BTW, my son played a few tourneys with a U16 team last fall and has played up in the past. We have found the intensity comes more from the level of competition rather than from age level. At some tourneys last fall I often saw top U14 teams play up and beat U15 and U16 teams. Older doesn't automatically mean better.

bbdad- You have some misconceptions and inaccuracies about our program but that is not the focus here. If I was worried about that I would load up on freshmen for my 14's and take juniors from our junior team who throw 90 on my 16's to the JO's. The fact is that I would be doing those kids a disservice to their development. All of our players participating in 14&U are middle-school kids and they will do fine and benefit from that in the long run.

Regarding these local tournaments- they retard player development IMO. Too much emphasis is made on getting to the championship game and not enough on the process. The only people truly benefitting are the tournament directors (I do like AF's though). Not enough time is spent on practice and development. Kids don't even know cut-off assignments because there is such a push on getting in games that you can never take a pre-game in&out. Sorry, I detest them (sorry AF- lol).

My model IS on the elite players- the ones that want to play past high school. There are plenty of those and I believe those players will be better prepared playing against their grade. I also think they would be better off playing controlled games against quality opponents where you can instruct and correct during games.

There are plenty of teams and tournaments to play for players that are more recreational. That said, the players that are serious will start gravitating to grade-based teams and you will see more prominent national events that will be grade-based.

I talk to the top programs in the country on a regular basis. They all agree it makes sense and the transition to grade-based teams from the top programs will happen in the next two years. It is the natural evolution that is being spurred by the new May 1 cutoff that splits age-based teams into a 50/50 split.

NCBall:
"Regarding these local tournaments- they retard player development IMO. Too much emphasis is made on getting to the championship game and not enough on the process. The only people truly benefitting are the tournament directors (I do like AF's though). Not enough time is spent on practice and development. Kids don't even know cut-off assignments because there is such a push on getting in games that you can never take a pre-game in&out."

Your diagnosis is 100% correct in my opinion, but your placement of blame is off. I could make the same argument about "major" National tournaments- eg. how much 'focus on process' is going on when teams load for the Elite 24 or NATC week at Cooperstown with kids they've never played with before and will never see again?

We agree that travel teams in general do not practice enough and most have little clue how to develop players. We disagree about the pre-game infield I think: I see plenty of high school team that don't know cutoff assignments and they do nothing but take infield.

I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the coaches who recruit instead of coach, and the parents who shop instead of practice. There is a time for recruiting (and shopping) and a time to deal with whatever adversity is facing your team and work through it. This does not happen enough.

But "local tournaments", like national tournaments or practice games, are simply the vehicle for what we all really should be doing as coaches- developing players and teaching young people the skills they need to survive going forward.

A good coach shouldn't have any trouble setting expectations for his team so the process is clear, and any one single tournament fades in importance. Of course we all try to win when we're on the field, but a good coach never loses sight of the team's larger goals. If you take that focus, I think local tournaments can be great- they offer tremendous opportunities to deal with adversity.

XtremeBB- I stand corrected. I agree with you 100%. I'm going to adheed to your thoughts on approach to the local ones. Now, start having more open local tournaments and everybody will benefit.

ncball, I think our differences of opinion are based on "theory versus reality". Everything you say sounds great but reality says something different. Your program IS for elite players ( make that elite families as not everyone can afford your program). Speaking on behalf of a lot of players and families that are looking for what you described - where do we go to sign up? What options are available today in the Bay Area that offer what you described? I received a lot of calls and made calls within a group of families that have played travel ball together- all searching for what you described. Everyone has had to comprise in some way to end up with the best they could find... And these are all good players that all hope to play beyond HS. It's certainly not for lack of desire, or effort or sacrifices players and families have made and are willing to continue making.

I would love for tournaments to have games spaced apart so teams could have more pre-game field time. But I also realize tournament directors need to pay for field, umpires, etc... and they need to have tourneys profitable or they won't keep doing them. Teams simply sign up for the best ones available to them - what other options are there?

A lot of teams out there have trouble even finding fields to practice on. Good coaches cost money and there are a lot of families that are financially limited. This is just reality.

To use USSSA baseball as an example, your teams fall under the "elite" status - one could say there are 24 nationally per age group as in the "Elite24" tourney. So the majority of travel ball players fall under AAA or Majors classification. All these teams aspire to be or are "competitive" - rec would be LL, PONY etc... Most, if not all of these players would love to be on an Elite team. But they don't have to be to have the desire to become the best players they can.

So regarding grade level teams - it sounds like you are referring more towards Elite teams and national tournaments. I say that sounds great but again that affects a small percentage of travel ball players and teams. The rest are trying to do their best with what's available to them and have many real world issues to deal with.

I certainly enjoyed this discussion and hope I don't sound argumentative. It certainly is not my intention so I apoligize if anything I say comes across as anything other than an exchange of ideas and viewpoints. Another good topic could be " what differentiates an Elite player with a Majors/AAA level player? My son played on a couple of different teams last years that both faced your team. Unfortunately, they were always on the losing end... At one BPA tourney in Turlock, the game was decided by just one run though- I think 4-3. The difference could be attributed to the power of the hitters. We had a couple of balls hit to the fence/wall that were caught ( nice plays by your outfielders - one guy crashed into the wall and held on!). Your Alabama player hit one into the trees - probably around 450'. Other than these subtle differences, both teams played great defense and all pitchers pitched very well. I think some of these Elite players are the ones that have that abnormal innate ability like strenght or speed that others don't. And the Elite team that collects the most of these types of players increases their chances to win at the national level. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that - it is the basis of high level sports and competion - amateur or proffessional. I think that is the way it should be. But is it taboo to come out and say it or admit it?

bbdad2007- I don't apologize for being a good program. I've worked my butt off since 1992 trying to put together the best program possible to help our players get to the next level. I also don't apologize for players out of the area playing with us. It's been a great life-experience for those players.

The player from Alabama lived with friends here all summer and worked and developed like all of our other players. We looked at it much like a "foreign exchange program" that was great for our players as well as the young man. They learned alot about different cultures from each other.

What I don't like are the misconceptions that you and others have about our program that are either fostered by jealousy or ignorance. I.E.- We have NEVER turned a player away because of money. If they are on our team and need help, we help them- period. As a matter of fact, the only thing "elite" about our families are that they are good, hard-working people who are great fans and understand the journey is about the process and not "winning". There are other misconceptions you named but I want to keep this short of a novel.

I still don't think you understand why we do this.
Our program was established before your son was even born and I don't have a single trophy or medal to show for it. We don't keep wins and losses and we don't keep stats. We do keep the number of kids who go through our program and get baseball scholarships.

I've seen the landscape change dramatically and not for the better. We started our program to give good players a place to play against other good players- period. The problem is that everybody decided to move up and do the same thing.

So, what to do? Find a better way to create better competition for the best players and, by doing so, help those players. Here's the deal- Your kid is going to be a 16 year old junior before you know it. If you keep going the same direction, he will be playing with 15 year olds in 16&U tournaments. Other 16 year old juniors will be playing against juniors and seniors in places that will increase his odds of exposure as well as developing against better competition. What we have done is brand our players by "grade", not "age". Guys get recruited (and drafted) by grade. The sooner they start playing against the players they will compete against for a spot on a college team the better they will be.

Finally, there is NO reason NOT to switch. It's just as easy to put together a grade-based team as it is an age-based team if you are not worried about winning and losing. We are entering our 8th grade team in a 16&U Memorial Day tournament at the Stockton Ports' Stadium. I expect to be knocked around a little and that adversity will be a great lesson for our kids. They will get better because they understand that is part of the journey that baseball is teaching them on and off the field.

ncabll - to set the record straight, I have a lot of respect and admoration for your program and teams. You can call me a fan! The fact that you have out of state players is a good thing in my book. I really look forward to seeing your teams in tournaments and will watch them play when my son's team isn't playing. I saw the kid from Washington pitch once - phenominal throwing in the 80's at that age! As a fan of travel ball it is a pleasure to watch some of your players play! I know there are people out there who could be jealous or ignorant. I know I'm not jealous and hope I don't sound ignorant! I even know some families that play or have played with your teams and they are all great people. My son's team will be at the USSSA State Championships and I saw you may be there as well. I'm already looking forward to seeing you guys play!

Regarding what to do - again, I'm just a parent. Posting on this message board is probably the extent of my influence - which is to say practically zero. I have and continue to expose my son to the best coaching I can find. He has great private pitching and batting coaches. The new team he's on has great coaching as well. Regarding this whole age/grade thing, the only thing clearer to me is that he is at a disadvantage being a 14 yr old freshman. He has an August birthday and always did very well is school - it never even crossed our minds that this would be a factor later on... I'm just learning as I go along. If I had a second son I would be a lot smarter on a lot of things second time around!

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You can PM me and I'll give the name of one that used to be on your roster that was held back with a 4.0 GPA!

While some privates do this to redshirt athletes, there are plenty of kids getting A's in public school who struggle when they enter a more competitive private school.