Albert Pujols

thats an amazing clip, perfect mechanics

Thanks for the clip Jason!

Has Pujols increased the width of his stance over the last few years? More than likely I am just now noticing how wide his stance is.

What are the benefits / detractors of a wide stance?

I use Pujols as a model for my youngest son. If Pujols has any flaws, I can't see them!

You're welcome GFK!

Jason

I am always amazed at how long he keeps his bat in the zone. It is such a level swing. It seems when he mis-hits a ball it is a screaming single or double in the gap. A thing of beauty.

I agree on outstanding mechanics.. but level swing? I just don't see the path of that swing as level... slight upslope? yes.

A question?

Would Pujols be as good if he didn't finish his swing that way?

His swings are usually leveled. This is the difference between pujols and other homerun hitters. He don't just pull the ball, the ball goes all directions, and he hits for linedrives. This is why Pujol's just so amazing, and so clutch.

I don't know, PG. He has an awfully quick swing, but that extension has to count for some. His nice wide stance keeps him from over striding and limits his movement. I think we all love watching this guy hit.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
A question?

Would Pujols be as good if he didn't finish his swing that way?

PGStaff, what in particular are you referencing regarding his finish? (Please be patient with my ignorance.)

I once read a thread on the sEtPr0 site by Ny-Man describing the swing as starting with a flail and extending into a whip. More than likely I do not fully grasp the concept but Pujols swing seems to match the flail extending into a whip concept.

When I first came across the idea, it made me think of the cue “Short to the ball and long on the follow threw.”

quote:

Originally posted by Diablo con Huevos:
I agree on outstanding mechanics.. but level swing? I just don't see the path of that swing as level... slight upslope? yes.

A correct level swing plane is not parallel with the ground. Are you confusing the two?

GFK,

The finish of the swing is all things that happen from contact on. Including the high finish.

The only reason I brought it up is because there has been discussion where people have said it does not matter what happens after contact. While this is probable true in a scientific way, I've never seen a good power hitter who doesn't appear to finish the swing with authority.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
GFK,

The finish of the swing is all things that happen from contact on. Including the high finish.

The only reason I brought it up is because there has been discussion where people have said it does not matter what happens after contact. While this is probable true in a scientific way, I've never seen a good power hitter who doesn't appear to finish the swing with authority.

I guess I tried to read to much into the question.

I do know that the finish on a hitter's swing is a result of all that takes place up to contact. I would bet good money you see similarities in the finish of good hitters because they are doing lots of things the same up to contact.

I guess you could use the finish to evaluate the swing to contact. If the finish is off, the swing up to contact must have been off.

PG

Interesting question. I think that what happens after contact is a direct result of what happens before contact. While it may be true that what happens after contact may be irrelevant, the reality is that the finish was created by the start.

quote:

Originally posted by Callaway:
PG

...I think that what happens after contact is a direct result of what happens before contact. While it may be true that what happens after contact may be irrelevant, the reality is that the finish was created by the start.

Callaway, you said it a lot better than I and in a lot less words!

Based on my observations of MLB hitters some
extend and some hook after contact.

Here's Ortiz who is a pretty good power hitter hooking after contact:

[URL=http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro/DOrtiz2002MIN_Double_SView.gif]

Great points. Can anyone think of a hitter that has a great finish but a poor swing? I think this will be hard at the MLB level because they wouldn't be there if they couldn't hit. But some hit better than others; maybe a pitcher that has a great finish but couldn't hit water of they fell out of a boat.

Try this...

LINEDRIVE-

i am not confusing the two... i assumed he was talking about a "level" swing (to the ground) whcih most people do talk about - that doesn't take place in MLB unless the pitch is across the letters... if he was talking level to the ball, that is fine... don't know what he meant...

Diablo,
A little of both, I guess. He keeps the bat in the plane of the ball longer than about any hitter I have seen. He is also swings with a more level(to the ground) swing than most.

I don't have the technical knowledge that many on this board have but here's what I see in Albert's video clip (or at least what I think I see)....

Albert's weight shift and perhaps the early part of his rotation appear to create momentum that drives into his left leg and left foot. I can't tell this for sure but it looks like this momentum recoils back up through his left leg to continue the hip rotation. He doesn't appear to squash the bug...doesn't appear to drive off his back foot at all.

I can't slow the video down any further but it looks like he pulls really hard with his front side/shoulder then throws the barrel at the ball with his right hand. Though it could be that what I see as throwing the barrel actually occurs after contact. Hard to tell at this speed.

His spine angle is pretty much vertical, which differs from many power hitters whose spine angles appear to tilt back toward the catcher a bit. This might be why Albert hits so many line drive home runs, as opposed to towering fly balls (which he hits only occasionally).

Perhaps some here can tell me if what I think I see is correct.

Thanks.
Jon

well, after seeing these clips (and others), it seems to me that hip rotation happens as or just after footplant, certainly not before. And not "the hips rotate into foot plant". I would think the hips need a solid, stable bases to rotate upon.

Go back and look at both clips. Draw a line through the toe and heel of the players. Watch that line change before it plants. The players are opening their foot to about 45 degrees open. This takes hip rotation before plant.

Because both hitters rotate around a firm front leg. Their hands tend to return to the plane they left. One hitting guru is teaching to flatten the finish. This would really be difficult. Go back and watch where Pujols and Ortiz hands are when the initiate and see if their hands return to the same plane.

If you built a machine and fixed the rotational axis point and started above and fed a swing lower than the starting point, it would finish on the same plane it started.

NYdad, you have come a long way and I commend you for that.....

GoMo- yes, front foot should touch before hip rotation (the ground is an energy source) and kinetic energy works from the ground up....

BASEBALL PAPA- you do not need hip rotation to open front foot 45-60 degrees.. there is a joint at the ankle that can do that without recruiting the abductors of the thigh/hips

quote:

GoMo- yes, front foot should touch before hip rotation (the ground is an energy source) and kinetic energy works from the ground up....

This is absolutely untrue.....Not even close....

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro;jsessionid=2cv3...&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

The hips opening is what forces the front foot to the ground in a high level swing....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/bonds600.mpeg

BlueDog,

quote:

The hips opening is what forces the front foot to the ground in a high level swing....

Do i understand you correctly here, you are claiming that hips open before the foot hits the ground?

BlueDog,

In both the clips you provided the hips are moving forward (weight transfer in the general direction of the pitcher) before the front foot plants but it appears that hip rotation (opening) does not start until after the foot plants. I would agree that the ground is not the source of energy for the swing. The hitter pushes against the ground but his body is the source of energy.

The Ortiz clip shows him hitting an inside pitch, hence the hook swing. I have seen him extend very well on pitches over the plate.

ummm, if you think the rotation of the hips throws the foot to a plant on the ground, you are blind.

watch any of these clips and stop them at the landing of front hip.. then switch to watching hips, they happen at different times... foot then hips...

you are saying that when someone strides, that they DO NOT re-establish a balance point before they initiate hip rotation? THAT does not make sense. BLUEDOG- are you sure you took a biomechanics class in college?? If you are right, you could make a mint re-writing every college book on the Biomechanical Principles of Human Movement...

SO if I understand this right, the hips force the planting of the foot (downward transfer of energy) yet the arms, hands, bat are on a slight upslope through swing (upward transfer of energy)... so basically you have energy going in tow differnt directions at about the same time??? not very efficient.

What I see may be described more as a weight transfer to about toe touch and then rotation to plant and through...

BLUE-

Great footage of Hank.. look at Clemente too (#18) and Boggs (#20).. great footage of nothing rotating at hips until heel drop...

i just realized that if there is rotation in hips before front foot lands (as BLUE states) then the hitter is rotating while on back foot (because front hasbn't touched yet). Would that not be a squishing the bug of sorts?

you would think boxers would then box on just their back leg for knock out punch..

Diablo, you nothing about momentum....With momentum, the weight is not on the back foot....I understand, and know, this is something of which you are not aware.....Epstein doesn't teach it, and you are not aware enough to seek out and learn it.....

Diablo, how can a hitter sit on his back leg when his back leg is in the air?..

quote:

Do i understand you correctly here, you are claiming that hips open before the foot hits the ground?

Well, yeah, that's what I said.....Is it not what I said?...

Diablo, to understand what happens in a high level swing, which you don't, you must first understand where a MLB hitter's power source is.....Again, which you don't....

Nydad, more frames per second would make it perfectly clear to you......Although, I can see it very clearly.....The hips begin rotating before footplant and force the foot to the ground....