Bobbleheaddoll asked that this thrower be posted. He would "Like to have comments." So go ahead everyone, give Bobbleheaddoll your comments."
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Cap_n>Is this pitcher available for signing?
Mechanics and methodical movement in forward movement are absolutely magnificent>
I have never used that term here before, if that tells you anything.
Shep
Mechanics and methodical movement in forward movement are absolutely magnificent>
I have never used that term here before, if that tells you anything.
Shep
The young man looks good overall. His stride foot does appear to be landing on the heel, however. And his body is overrunning the stride leg. I realize that this is what some teach. I would prefer to see more hip rotation rather than the torso overrunning the stride leg.
Obviously the young man has worked hard on his mechanics.
Obviously the young man has worked hard on his mechanics.
tend to agree with texan but he does look like a work in progress..leftys just look different when they pitch.
That's beautiful
A really nice motion - one item I really liked was the tuck of the glove back into the body - getting that pull from the right side.
A little overstriding perhaps - leading to a flat rather than toe down landing... but I am really stretching to find that criticism...
A little overstriding perhaps - leading to a flat rather than toe down landing... but I am really stretching to find that criticism...
Nice stuff!
Fair balance....good direction...keep glove over front foot and work to it...this will prevent premature spinning and promote forward handspeed that is desireable for ability to throw all pitches....he gets through the pitch and doesn't spin till after he releases the ball, just be aware of front side leaving before you get through the pitch........when he starts to the plate he may want hands and front leg to be in sync....his leg starts down and forward but his hands are still together a little longer and they don't separate till leg has started down and forward..remember that the leg kick provides momentum but more importantly it allows you to use your lower half which you appear to be doing ......AND it allows your arm time to catch up w/ the rest of your body, in that area I feel you are lacking a touch.....at foot strike you would like your back (throwing) elbow at or near shoulder height....
Basically what you are doing may cause you throw the ball up or up and armside......think about throwing the ball THROUGH your catcher...all the while working to your front side......
Instead of thinking about a bunch of mechanical stuff......separate your hands when your front leg starts down and forward and see how close you can take your nose to your catcher while maintaining a solid/balanced finish..
All in all you look pretty solid.....the thing you do can cause you miss up in the strike zone...(and by UP, I mean thigh to belt high)
All of the above are fixable and not major problems to correct.......
Delivery is coordinated and somewhat fluid......
Basically what you are doing may cause you throw the ball up or up and armside......think about throwing the ball THROUGH your catcher...all the while working to your front side......
Instead of thinking about a bunch of mechanical stuff......separate your hands when your front leg starts down and forward and see how close you can take your nose to your catcher while maintaining a solid/balanced finish..
All in all you look pretty solid.....the thing you do can cause you miss up in the strike zone...(and by UP, I mean thigh to belt high)
All of the above are fixable and not major problems to correct.......
Delivery is coordinated and somewhat fluid......
I would say the arm action is subpar.
Can he throw harder than low 80's?
Can he throw harder than low 80's?
How old is he? How big is he? How hard does he throw?
I think he's too deliberate. I count about 33 frames from high knee lift to release. Most hard throwers are 25 frames or less. I think he's stalling at high knee lift. I also think his rotation into foot plant is too drawn out. In hard throwers, especially shorter pitchers, I see a late much more violent rotation of the hips into foot plant. He looks big so he may be able to get away with it.
A very linear (i.e. straight towards the plate) delivery in my opinion. He also appears to be pushing a bit. I think that too is related to poor rotation (of the shoulders). His arm action, from high zone to release, gives me the impression he's spent some time with the "towel drill".
These are just my opinions.
Jason
I think he's too deliberate. I count about 33 frames from high knee lift to release. Most hard throwers are 25 frames or less. I think he's stalling at high knee lift. I also think his rotation into foot plant is too drawn out. In hard throwers, especially shorter pitchers, I see a late much more violent rotation of the hips into foot plant. He looks big so he may be able to get away with it.
A very linear (i.e. straight towards the plate) delivery in my opinion. He also appears to be pushing a bit. I think that too is related to poor rotation (of the shoulders). His arm action, from high zone to release, gives me the impression he's spent some time with the "towel drill".
These are just my opinions.
Jason
How hard does he throw?
Thanks for the comments.
He was 17 when I shot that video.
At the finish he comes up a lttle early because the mound is too small for him. he usually stays low and his kick leg lands parallel tp his stride leg.
His late hand break does help keep his weight back. I like his plant foot almost planted before he drives to the plate. This gives him control.
He maxes at 84mph but his off speeds are his strenghts.
He needs lower and upper body development to get his velocity up. He is 6'3" 170lbs.
Thanks Cap_n
He was 17 when I shot that video.
At the finish he comes up a lttle early because the mound is too small for him. he usually stays low and his kick leg lands parallel tp his stride leg.
His late hand break does help keep his weight back. I like his plant foot almost planted before he drives to the plate. This gives him control.
He maxes at 84mph but his off speeds are his strenghts.
He needs lower and upper body development to get his velocity up. He is 6'3" 170lbs.
Thanks Cap_n
Flip that is slow motion.
You can't throw hard by throwing soft....
Light a fire under him.
Light a fire under him.
quote:He maxes at 84mph but his off speeds are his strenghts.
You're welcome.
What's special about his off speed throws? What's their velocity and does he throw with the same arm speed as his fast ball throws?
BHD, you have a PM.
Yes Cap_n he uses the same arm motion. Generally 10-12mph slower.
If he is on his game his offspeads break at the front of the plate which is hard to pick up and he throws them for strikes.
If he is on his game his offspeads break at the front of the plate which is hard to pick up and he throws them for strikes.
BobbleheadDoll,
I hope you were kidding. Of course the clip is in slow motion. You can open animated GIFs in Quicktime and view the clip just like it's shown here or frame by frame. That is what I did. He's at least 33 frames from hand break to release. That's a pretty slow tempo based on what I've seen from high level hard throwing pitchers.
I mentioned the towel drill in my previous post. Has he used that drill at all?
Jason
I hope you were kidding. Of course the clip is in slow motion. You can open animated GIFs in Quicktime and view the clip just like it's shown here or frame by frame. That is what I did. He's at least 33 frames from hand break to release. That's a pretty slow tempo based on what I've seen from high level hard throwing pitchers.
I mentioned the towel drill in my previous post. Has he used that drill at all?
Jason
BobbleheadDoll,
I wanted to thank you for posting a clip of your boy. It's not easy to do that and hear comments from strangers. Especially comments that aren't necessarily complimentary. Hopefully you understand that nothing I say is personal. I'm guessing your boy is a decent pitcher. I just think he could be better.
Of course that's only my opinion, which may or may not mean anything to you or anybody else for that matter.
Thanks again for sharing!
Jason
I wanted to thank you for posting a clip of your boy. It's not easy to do that and hear comments from strangers. Especially comments that aren't necessarily complimentary. Hopefully you understand that nothing I say is personal. I'm guessing your boy is a decent pitcher. I just think he could be better.
Of course that's only my opinion, which may or may not mean anything to you or anybody else for that matter.
Thanks again for sharing!
Jason
Flip I put it out so I can take the comments.
I can assure you that is slow MO campared to his delivery speed. I have the original of corse and that would put me to sleep if that was his full speed motion. I don't know why it is slower than the original but it looks like half speed.
I can assure you that is slow MO campared to his delivery speed. I have the original of corse and that would put me to sleep if that was his full speed motion. I don't know why it is slower than the original but it looks like half speed.
quote:I don't know why it is slower than the original but it looks like half speed.
It's always like this. You need to down load the clip and run it on your own computer to see the real speed. There are no duplicate frames, there are no dropped frames. When this is the case, you can generally count frames.
It appears there's 19 frames from hand break to release, which is pretty good, but 32 frames from high knee to release, which is pretty slow...if you want to compare his style/tempo to high velocity throwers.
This young man's mechanics show what hard work can do, very impressive. Love the way he gets out over his plant leg @ release. As Tx mentioned, he does appear to land on his heel rather than toe. Also, he "swings" his leg up a bit rather than lifting, might want to experiment a little there, these two may be related. This may help bring his windup delivery closer to stretch delivery and improve overall command. I am assuming his stretch will not want the lead leg to go back behind plant leg in order to help hold runners. Best of luck!
Thanks Yank.
His pickoff is excellent and head goes to the plate during the pickoff and trails back towards 1st base. He is actually looking at home plate when he starts to throw over.
At the top of his lift at balance point he goes straight out at a 45degree angle.
He upsets a lot of players and parents but not UMPs. Take more than 2 primary steps and you are usually gone.
His pickoff is excellent and head goes to the plate during the pickoff and trails back towards 1st base. He is actually looking at home plate when he starts to throw over.
At the top of his lift at balance point he goes straight out at a 45degree angle.
He upsets a lot of players and parents but not UMPs. Take more than 2 primary steps and you are usually gone.
BBscout I am not sure why the clip is so slow. Maybe Cap_n can explain. I was surprised when I saw it.
It was a fairly large file that I e-mailed. I could e-mail it to you.
It was a fairly large file that I e-mailed. I could e-mail it to you.
Thanks Cap'n I was going to send him a bottle of Geritol.
BBscout I appreciate the advice.
I know that the hip turn was what he used to do until The head pitching scout from the Blue Jays stopped him a few years ago.
I don't know what cahnges his college coach has made. Havn't seen him since August.
I will mention your comments when I talk to him tonight.
Thanks
I know that the hip turn was what he used to do until The head pitching scout from the Blue Jays stopped him a few years ago.
I don't know what cahnges his college coach has made. Havn't seen him since August.
I will mention your comments when I talk to him tonight.
Thanks
BobbleheadDoll,
I'm curious what you think of your son's delivery.
Jason
I'm curious what you think of your son's delivery.
Jason
Based on results and lack of problems I think it is very good. He is effortless and releases his ball way out front. In the video which was a couple years ago he is not throwing with the intensity that he would show in a game situation. The full length video got raves from College coaches and several offers. Can't be too bad.
He is not as of yet a power pitcher but his control is usually excellent. There is always fine tunning and room for improvement.
He is not as of yet a power pitcher but his control is usually excellent. There is always fine tunning and room for improvement.
I don't see anything "wrong" with the delivery so much. I do think he would pick up velocity if he broke his pitching hand from his glove a hair sooner, so that he could get the arm up in the back sooner and get his hand more out front at release. He has a slight arm drag and while this can increase "action" on the ball, particularly for a lefty, it does hinder velocity somewhat. But 84 mph for a lefty is fine, esp. if he has good off-speed stuff and good spot control. You may lose some tailing action as you get more out front on release, so you have to consider what's more important to you, what works best for him. Ultimately it's more important to get batters out than to light up RADAR guns.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The full length video got raves from College coaches..
Who
BBscout my son rotated is hips slightly and the Scout emphatically told him not to. I even have it on video. He was running an instructional class and did a little demo. It was quite funny. Never forgot it.
I know some scouts have tried to shorten his arm motion. More like an infielders arm motion. he defintely gets more power when he does that.
Midlo makes a good point. Son actually slows himself down to get movement. Even Maddox does that.
I know some scouts have tried to shorten his arm motion. More like an infielders arm motion. he defintely gets more power when he does that.
Midlo makes a good point. Son actually slows himself down to get movement. Even Maddox does that.
Yes I watched it.
I am referring to an interview with Maddux's coach and he did not want him throwing in the 90s. He pointed out that he was more effective in the 80s. He pointed out that he was capable of throwing in the 90s but they backed him off.
I am referring to an interview with Maddux's coach and he did not want him throwing in the 90s. He pointed out that he was more effective in the 80s. He pointed out that he was capable of throwing in the 90s but they backed him off.
I think you move your head a little too much. Most good pitchers hardly move their head throughout the whole delivery. They dont pull it to the opposite side
quote:Originally posted by smokky1:
I think you move your head a little too much. Most good pitchers hardly move their head throughout the whole delivery. They dont pull it to the opposite side
This is such a load of nonesense.
There is no way you can throw without NOT moving your head at all. Especially to the side.
Take a look at some video of different pitchers. They ALL move their head to the side when they throw.
Rob,
The head is irrelevent after the ball is released....where ever your nose goes so will your back side, which has the ball in it....forward hand speed is important or should I say impairative (sp?)....if you don't have forward hand speed it makes if very difficult to get the ball to do what you want as well as locate it....I think if you look at video of successful MLB pitchers you will find that a great majority keep their nose on the catcher at least untill after they release the ball...if the head or any other part of the front side leaves early it will affect what the arm does...ie. it will not promote forward hand speed, can cause you to push the ball etc.....and with out that you can't throw CB's,SL's, Split's, CH's(w/ armside run/sink) or sinkers properly....
The head is irrelevent after the ball is released....where ever your nose goes so will your back side, which has the ball in it....forward hand speed is important or should I say impairative (sp?)....if you don't have forward hand speed it makes if very difficult to get the ball to do what you want as well as locate it....I think if you look at video of successful MLB pitchers you will find that a great majority keep their nose on the catcher at least untill after they release the ball...if the head or any other part of the front side leaves early it will affect what the arm does...ie. it will not promote forward hand speed, can cause you to push the ball etc.....and with out that you can't throw CB's,SL's, Split's, CH's(w/ armside run/sink) or sinkers properly....
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Rob,
The head is irrelevent after the ball is released....where ever your nose goes so will your back side, which has the ball in it....forward hand speed is important or should I say impairative (sp?)....if you don't have forward hand speed it makes if very difficult to get the ball to do what you want as well as locate it....I think if you look at video of successful MLB pitchers you will find that a great majority keep their nose on the catcher at least untill after they release the ball...if the head or any other part of the front side leaves early it will affect what the arm does...ie. it will not promote forward hand speed, can cause you to push the ball etc.....and with out that you can't throw CB's,SL's, Split's, CH's(w/ armside run/sink) or sinkers properly....
thats the way i was taught. Keep nose to the target. I had control problems before, but now i keep my nose the target and my control is much better.
Maddux is 26 frames to release in his clip.
33 is a lot if the goal is to throw hard. On the other hand, it is an easily identifiable place to pick up velocity. Get to 30 then 27. My bet us that there will be mph's there. I'll bet he can throw from the slide step as hard as he throws full windup. Am I close?
If he gets guys out then so be it. However if he he wants to throw harder...it's there for the taking.
Thanks for posting the clip. You do expose yourself when you do it but it is of great benefit to you and all involved.
Good luck.
33 is a lot if the goal is to throw hard. On the other hand, it is an easily identifiable place to pick up velocity. Get to 30 then 27. My bet us that there will be mph's there. I'll bet he can throw from the slide step as hard as he throws full windup. Am I close?
If he gets guys out then so be it. However if he he wants to throw harder...it's there for the taking.
Thanks for posting the clip. You do expose yourself when you do it but it is of great benefit to you and all involved.
Good luck.
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
.......I think if you look at video of successful MLB pitchers you will find that a great majority keep their nose on the catcher at least untill after they release the ball...
This is a great example of why "establishment" people are dangerous.
Watch the heads of these 5 pretty good pitchers before they release.
All righthanders. All have their head move significantly to the left to make room for their arm.
Mr LOW337. Just how can a pitcher get his arm perpendicular to his spine, which it has to be for maximum energy transfer, without moving his head aside? If he doesn't move his head he has to throw side arm.
Always.....compare what anyone tells you to video of the best doing it.
Info,
Can I borrow these clips?
Shep
Can I borrow these clips?
Shep
That's what they are there for.
Hopefully you can pass them on to the establishment.
Hopefully you can pass them on to the establishment.
Thank you brother. Establishment it is because these are the best I've seen.
Shep
Shep
HOLD on INFO.....first of all I'm a little tired of the "establishment" comment.....can I help it that I played pro baseball, coached college and minor league baseball?...and baseball still puts clothes on my back and feeds me......It's the profession I chose......and continue to still work in.....
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
HOLD on INFO.....first of all I'm a little tired of the "establishment" comment.....can I help it that I played pro baseball, coached college and minor league baseball?...and baseball still puts clothes on my back and feeds me......It's the profession I chose......and continue to still work in.....
That's great. I'm happy for you.
You have an opportunity to go on a campaign to teach them how the skills of baseball are really done as opposed to how many in established baseball teach them..........or don't teach them.
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
I see absolutley no "nose to the catcher" in any of these. Clearly the head, which controls the nose, is not going toward the catcher.
Why say that when 90% of the listeners will take it literal and 90% of them will be wrong.
I'm tired of establishment comment too.....
Have viewed countless hours of film and have basically the same philosophies so why do you guys BD/IP and a few others keep bashing The Establishment???
Have viewed countless hours of film and have basically the same philosophies so why do you guys BD/IP and a few others keep bashing The Establishment???
INFO.
You are not talking about what I was....don't now any other way to tell you....
You are not talking about what I was....don't now any other way to tell you....
Well then Info....
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
quote:There is no way you can throw without NOT moving your head at all. Especially to the side.
Take a look at some video of different pitchers. They ALL move their head to the side when they throw.
Posts: 21 | Location: Macomb, MI | Registered: August 16, 2005
RobV say it best right here in this quote and I know that LOW knows this because we talked about it last night.
Info, your trying to twist things a little bit here.
We all know the head must tilt here and can't believe Smokey said the opposite up a few posts.
IMHO
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Well then Info....
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
I thought you worked in baseball? I don't.
I'm a dad at a computer who has studied and taught my sons and I know more about baseball skills than 90% of the establishment that I am exposed to.
Does that say something about me.........or them.
I do this as a hobby. It is their livelihood.
quote:think you move your head a little too much. Most good pitchers hardly move their head throughout the whole delivery. They dont pull it to the opposite side
BTW,
This is the post by Smokey that I was referring...
Shep
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Rob,
The head is irrelevent after the ball is released....where ever your nose goes so will your back side, which has the ball in it....forward hand speed is important or should I say impairative (sp?)........
Shep
Read the above.
Is that the truth? Does your backside go where you nose goes? Look at the video.
Is forward hand speed important? What is forward hand speed? Or is the rotational speed of the hand at the end of the arm at the end of the shoulders powered by the rotation of the body what is most important to know?
Forward? Why does the hand end up near the post knee? Is that forward? No. The arm is in a rotational arc.
Maybe this will help, Info....
By moving the head I am referring to it moving side to side or jerking if you will,... BEFORE you release the ball....
By moving the head I am referring to it moving side to side or jerking if you will,... BEFORE you release the ball....
May not be worded perfectly but believe me info this guy LOW337 knows what he's talking about as far as everything and anything in pitching dept, LO fo SHO!
Educated me a bit last night in fact about a few things in pitching delivery as well as hitting.
Shep
Educated me a bit last night in fact about a few things in pitching delivery as well as hitting.
Shep
Forward hand movement as opposed to side to side hand movement....how do you explain the spin on a curve ball if the hand is moving side to side.....it moves forward for a short time....
What would be an example of side to side hand movement? I just can't imagine what you're talking about. Throwing side arm? Therefore, your words are bad. They have no meaning.
Forward. What does that mean? Yes, the ball, therefore the hand/arm goes forward. But isn't it really in an arc defined by the rotation of the spine and body and perpendicular to the spine for maximum energy transfer?
So why not talk about the arm plane and how the plane is angled to create an arm slot of which most pitchers are 3/4 or nearly 3/4. And that doing this is one of many absolutes that are required to throw your hardest.
This nose stuff and the head doesn't move stuff is way off base.
Forward. What does that mean? Yes, the ball, therefore the hand/arm goes forward. But isn't it really in an arc defined by the rotation of the spine and body and perpendicular to the spine for maximum energy transfer?
So why not talk about the arm plane and how the plane is angled to create an arm slot of which most pitchers are 3/4 or nearly 3/4. And that doing this is one of many absolutes that are required to throw your hardest.
This nose stuff and the head doesn't move stuff is way off base.
quote:.if you don't have forward hand speed it makes if very difficult to get the ball to do what you want as well as locate it
LOW, you are absolutely correct in this statement because your upperhalve has to get a running start to generate enough forward mometum to bring hand forward fast enough to throw to spots.
IMHO
By side to side handspeed I do not mean sidearm.....you do not want your hand coming around the ball....in order to throw all pitches forward armspeed is needed....if you don't have it you cannot throw FB's(sinkers in particular), CB's (it will flatten them out), SL's (cutters, slurves, you stay behind these pitches) and CH's (w/ side to side hand speed you can't sink the ball because you tend to come around the ball).....(submarine guys are another topic)....
Might I add throw to spots with movement as well.
Info, believe LOW is talking about HTQ arm slot....
SHEP
Info, believe LOW is talking about HTQ arm slot....
SHEP
I never the said the head doesn't move....you just want to avoid any violent head jerking and spinning or flying off of the pitch at least untill you release it.....
Exactly LOW
It is a fact the arm is dragging if the head "BOBBLES"
Don't mean like Barry Bonds dragging either.
Did you guys see what Barry Bonds did in SF to raise money today for charity?
Shep
It is a fact the arm is dragging if the head "BOBBLES"
Don't mean like Barry Bonds dragging either.
Did you guys see what Barry Bonds did in SF to raise money today for charity?
Shep
Exactly Shep,
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot.....I wouldn't ever teach a kid and certainly wouldn't change HS, COL or PRO pitcher to change natural arm slot.....the front side will take care of the back side provided we are talking about a person whose arm works reasonalbly well.
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot.....I wouldn't ever teach a kid and certainly wouldn't change HS, COL or PRO pitcher to change natural arm slot.....the front side will take care of the back side provided we are talking about a person whose arm works reasonalbly well.
Shep,
I did see Paula, I mean Barry.....good to see him do that....
I did see Paula, I mean Barry.....good to see him do that....
Hilarious!
Dressed up like Opray or Queen Latifa, not sure which.
Only raised about 700 dollars though.
Think I would have given 'em that much not to have to dress up like that
Dressed up like Opray or Queen Latifa, not sure which.
Only raised about 700 dollars though.
Think I would have given 'em that much not to have to dress up like that
Paula A. ??? My bad.
At least he's showing the establishment he still cares.
Shep
At least he's showing the establishment he still cares.
Shep
Shep,
I think he was supposed to be Paula Abdul ala American Idol....LOL....It was good...very funny...
I think he was supposed to be Paula Abdul ala American Idol....LOL....It was good...very funny...
Info
Do you still caarree sir?
Sheppy-JK
Do you still caarree sir?
Sheppy-JK
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot...
Now you change from "forward" to HTQ, TQ and LTQ.
Why?
Why don't you say what you mean in the beginning. Forward has no meaning.
Read MN-MOM's post up in General Items didn't go to link yet.
Info,
How are you tonight sir?
Good conversation so far fellows.
Actually communicating here.
Shep
Info,
How are you tonight sir?
Good conversation so far fellows.
Actually communicating here.
Shep
You most certainly can have forward hand speed w/ all of those arm slots.....
LOW,
Think I should warn ya about info.
He loves a good arguement.
Shep
Think I should warn ya about info.
He loves a good arguement.
Shep
And as I said before you must have the forward handspeed to throw all pitches w/ desireable result.....when throwing you impart spin on the ball and to get the desired spin your hand must move forward.......
I gave him my number and told him to call me.
That would be okay. I've spoken with Info and he really is very intelligent LOW.
Great Guy actually, just brain-washed-JK Linear
Shep
Great Guy actually, just brain-washed-JK Linear
Shep
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
And as I said before you must have the forward handspeed to throw all pitches w/ desireable result.....when throwing you impart spin on the ball and to get the desired spin your hand must move forward.......
Duh!!
Another great establishment example.
Who thinks it goes backward? or sideways?
Brainwashed.....geeeezzz.....LOL
Call me info.....i will explain it to ....
Good night fellas.
Shep
Shep
Info.....
explain to me how you spin a breaking ball w/o forward handspeed.....
then explain how you spin a CH w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin a sinker w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin or, lack thereof, a splitter.....
then explain how you spin a slider/cutter w/o forward handspeed....
I'd like to hear what you think...
explain to me how you spin a breaking ball w/o forward handspeed.....
then explain how you spin a CH w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin a sinker w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin or, lack thereof, a splitter.....
then explain how you spin a slider/cutter w/o forward handspeed....
I'd like to hear what you think...
take care shep....
I really don't need "nothing" explained to me.
By nothing I mean your statement that you have to have forward hand speed.
Who doesn't know that? Who believes throwing hard comes from backward hand speed? Who believe throwing hard comes from slow speed?
As my daughter says......"No Duh!"
Perfect example of the "stuff" you get from baseball.
If we're talking pitching/hitting all I ask is you say something when you speak.
Talk about rotation into footplant. Scap loading. Tempo. Intent. Especially intent. Arm action. Something that has meaning.
By nothing I mean your statement that you have to have forward hand speed.
Who doesn't know that? Who believes throwing hard comes from backward hand speed? Who believe throwing hard comes from slow speed?
As my daughter says......"No Duh!"
Perfect example of the "stuff" you get from baseball.
If we're talking pitching/hitting all I ask is you say something when you speak.
Talk about rotation into footplant. Scap loading. Tempo. Intent. Especially intent. Arm action. Something that has meaning.
I'm simply saying that you do not want to come around the ball...that is all......
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Maybe this will help, Info....
By moving the head I am referring to it moving side to side... BEFORE you release the ball....
Clearly, all 5 pitchers move their head to the side before they release the ball.
Choosing descriptors is very important, and trying to illustrate actions (verbally) can be very difficult. As well, a cue that results in an affirmative response or action by one person does not mean that cue works for all.
Richard…this forum is not the place for you to try to save the throwing world from "the establishment" by ridiculing participant’s and/or their statements.
I encourage debate, but I discourage the constant badgering and attempted belittling (by you) toward every person that doesn’t word their thoughts exactly as you think they should word them.
If you continue with this style of posting, then things will change.
Richard…this forum is not the place for you to try to save the throwing world from "the establishment" by ridiculing participant’s and/or their statements.
I encourage debate, but I discourage the constant badgering and attempted belittling (by you) toward every person that doesn’t word their thoughts exactly as you think they should word them.
If you continue with this style of posting, then things will change.
Wow yhis had gotten interesting if not confusing.
TJ's head is very steady and moves to the target. He normally stays down a little longer but his foot falls off the mound and brings him up early after release. On a ball diamond he finishes in a BFP position allowing him to face the plate and move in any direction.
To me head movement is when you turn your head away from the target in order to get more power and I don't see that here.
Some things have been pointed out that need attention but his coach may have worked on them already.
TJ has been used to demonstarate proper pitching mechanics by MLB scouts and the pitching coach of Team Ontario. PG knows this gentleman very well.
Shep I hope you weren't referring to me about ESTAB bashing. I love all the establishments.
TJ doses what the coach standing in front of him tells him to do.
TJ's head is very steady and moves to the target. He normally stays down a little longer but his foot falls off the mound and brings him up early after release. On a ball diamond he finishes in a BFP position allowing him to face the plate and move in any direction.
To me head movement is when you turn your head away from the target in order to get more power and I don't see that here.
Some things have been pointed out that need attention but his coach may have worked on them already.
TJ has been used to demonstarate proper pitching mechanics by MLB scouts and the pitching coach of Team Ontario. PG knows this gentleman very well.
Shep I hope you weren't referring to me about ESTAB bashing. I love all the establishments.
TJ doses what the coach standing in front of him tells him to do.
no no Bobble...not at all referenceing you into that category, at all. Quite the opposite in fact
Shep
Shep
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
I never the said the head doesn't move....you just want to avoid any violent head jerking and spinning or flying off of the pitch at least untill you release it.....
Thats what i meant people
forget i said anything. This guy had great mechanicsI was looking at Jake peavy right now, and he keept his head on target and DIDN'T violent jerk it.
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:quote:think you move your head a little too much. Most good pitchers hardly move their head throughout the whole delivery. They dont pull it to the opposite side
BTW,
This is the post by Smokey that I was referring...
Shep
LOL i meant a violent jerk. You head moves but it's not a violent jerk to the ground
smokky1
Glad you cleared that up for us and apologize in advance for miscommunication.
Shep
Glad you cleared that up for us and apologize in advance for miscommunication.
Shep
See that's what the prolem is really. People using words that possibly do not describe what they are thinking or how they are trying to teach.
These "keep head steady" threads strike a nerve with me because I went to a clinic clinic with my son, and this college "coach" (who also happens to be a scout) teaches this head to the target junk, spews all the Tom House nonesense, towel drill up the wha zoo, and has my sons entire high school team fooled basically (for lack of a better word). Possibly a good portion of our community.
He's teaching kids that their throws (using their arms), should be akin to sitting in a pec deck machine when they throw. It looks laughable when you see him demonstrate it.
When he sees one kid who's head tilts to the side when they throw....."oh no...see...you gotta fix that!".
And yet, people here think he is going to save them and lead them into the throwing promised land. They are throwing money at this fraud. They don't know, that they don't know and it's sad. What's worse is that he is screwing up a lot of kids, and making their parents spend a lot of money with the hope that they may "make it" one day because of his connections.
These "keep head steady" threads strike a nerve with me because I went to a clinic clinic with my son, and this college "coach" (who also happens to be a scout) teaches this head to the target junk, spews all the Tom House nonesense, towel drill up the wha zoo, and has my sons entire high school team fooled basically (for lack of a better word). Possibly a good portion of our community.
He's teaching kids that their throws (using their arms), should be akin to sitting in a pec deck machine when they throw. It looks laughable when you see him demonstrate it.
When he sees one kid who's head tilts to the side when they throw....."oh no...see...you gotta fix that!".
And yet, people here think he is going to save them and lead them into the throwing promised land. They are throwing money at this fraud. They don't know, that they don't know and it's sad. What's worse is that he is screwing up a lot of kids, and making their parents spend a lot of money with the hope that they may "make it" one day because of his connections.
quote:Originally posted by RobV:
See that's what the prolem is really. People using words that possibly do not describe what they are thinking or how they are trying to teach.
These "keep head steady" threads strike a nerve with me because I went to a clinic clinic with my son, and this college "coach" (who also happens to be a scout) teaches this head to the target junk, spews all the Tom House nonesense, towel drill up the wha zoo, and has my sons entire high school team fooled basically (for lack of a better word). Possibly a good portion of our community.
He's teaching kids that their throws (using their arms), should be akin to sitting in a pec deck machine when they throw. It looks laughable when you see him demonstrate it.
When he sees one kid who's head tilts to the side when they throw....."oh no...see...you gotta fix that!".
And yet, people here think he is going to save them and lead them into the throwing promised land. They are throwing money at this fraud. They don't know, that they don't know and it's sad. What's worse is that he is screwing up a lot of kids, and making their parents spend a lot of money with the hope that they may "make it" one day because of his connections.
It's obvious that his head isn't looking at the left side dugout
http://www.padresnation.com/players/jakepeavyII.JPG
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img7310772.jpg
http://images.chron.com/content/news/photos/03/08/31/peavy.jpg
LOL i'm sorry i ever brought this up. The kid has very good mechanics. And will get very good.
In the video clip that started this group snit, I don't see much head tilt in the first place.
Head tilt is NOT a good thing. There are a whole host of reasons, some dealing with control, some with injury prevention. Still, lots of effective pitchers have it. You wouldn't want to teach it, any more than you would teach a young hitter to copy Julio Franco's stance or swing, but clearly some people are capable of having departures from standard form and still doing well.
One thing I would note is that head tilt often accompanies a dragging throwing arm. In fact, the dragging arm will result in the ball's being delivered off the plate to the arm side (to the left-handed batter's box for a lefty) unless either the drag is corrected or some other accommodation is made. Most kids start pulling their torso to the glove side, leading with their head, to compensate for the dragging arm.
The best cure is to get the arm up and out front sooner, so that the head is behind the hand. If you do this, the head will be more straight on to the plate. In other words, instead of solving one problem (arm drag) with another mistake (head pull), you're better served if you fix the original problem and eliminate the need to compensate.
Again, in the video, there is only a modest amount of arm drag going on, and thus, only a slight head pull. In this particular pitcher I don't see much cause for alarm, and if he has good arm health and is effective, why mess with success?
Head tilt is NOT a good thing. There are a whole host of reasons, some dealing with control, some with injury prevention. Still, lots of effective pitchers have it. You wouldn't want to teach it, any more than you would teach a young hitter to copy Julio Franco's stance or swing, but clearly some people are capable of having departures from standard form and still doing well.
One thing I would note is that head tilt often accompanies a dragging throwing arm. In fact, the dragging arm will result in the ball's being delivered off the plate to the arm side (to the left-handed batter's box for a lefty) unless either the drag is corrected or some other accommodation is made. Most kids start pulling their torso to the glove side, leading with their head, to compensate for the dragging arm.
The best cure is to get the arm up and out front sooner, so that the head is behind the hand. If you do this, the head will be more straight on to the plate. In other words, instead of solving one problem (arm drag) with another mistake (head pull), you're better served if you fix the original problem and eliminate the need to compensate.
Again, in the video, there is only a modest amount of arm drag going on, and thus, only a slight head pull. In this particular pitcher I don't see much cause for alarm, and if he has good arm health and is effective, why mess with success?
I am surprised that you would be so bitter towards Tom House. His method are excellent and we have not given him a nickel. We take his books out every spring from the local library. His approach is generally referred to as Tall & Fall. I know lots of pitchers who use this approach and are very successful.
The other approach is Drop & Drive which suits a lot of pitchers as well. I recommend the Louisville Slugger book called everything you kneed to know about pitching. This book gives a wide range of views and is a great read. This book gives several frame by frame looks at MLB pitchers and their mechanics.
I was curious why you think it is a fraud ?
The other approach is Drop & Drive which suits a lot of pitchers as well. I recommend the Louisville Slugger book called everything you kneed to know about pitching. This book gives a wide range of views and is a great read. This book gives several frame by frame looks at MLB pitchers and their mechanics.
I was curious why you think it is a fraud ?
That's Jake Peavey. Take a look at VIDEO of others like Nolan Ryan.
I'm not bitter towards Tom House (although I don't think his methods are that great), I'm more dismayed at the local guy here using his methods and conning people that don't know any better. Using his "status" as a means of getting people to pay him, regardless of what he's teaching.
I think there are much better ways to optimally throw a baseball.
I'm not bitter towards Tom House (although I don't think his methods are that great), I'm more dismayed at the local guy here using his methods and conning people that don't know any better. Using his "status" as a means of getting people to pay him, regardless of what he's teaching.
I think there are much better ways to optimally throw a baseball.
quote:Originally posted by RobV:
That's Jake Peavey. Take a look at VIDEO of others like Nolan Ryan.
I'm not bitter towards Tom House (although I don't think his methods are that great), I'm more dismayed at the local guy here using his methods and conning people that don't know any better. Using his "status" as a means of getting people to pay him, regardless of what he's teaching.
I think there are much better ways to optimally throw a baseball.
I have seen video
Oh god...
Tom House and Molan Ryan are co authers of several books.
I understand but there is no need to spend huge amounts of money. We used books to get started and had various coaches tweak TJ's mechanics. We had different opinions from top level coaches and listened to all of them. He did what was comfortable for him. A college player who helped coach his varsity team tried to totally change his mechanics. He asked me what to do and I told him to try his method. He tried it but reverted back to his original motion during the games. The college guy was trying to help but TJ was not comfortable with the motion.
House's method may not be right for your guy but it won't hurt him either. The pitching motion is not a natural motion and you have to find what works for you. It may take time to adjust. I know lots of guys who went to a very qualified pitching coach and said they pitched worse than before they started.
I understand but there is no need to spend huge amounts of money. We used books to get started and had various coaches tweak TJ's mechanics. We had different opinions from top level coaches and listened to all of them. He did what was comfortable for him. A college player who helped coach his varsity team tried to totally change his mechanics. He asked me what to do and I told him to try his method. He tried it but reverted back to his original motion during the games. The college guy was trying to help but TJ was not comfortable with the motion.
House's method may not be right for your guy but it won't hurt him either. The pitching motion is not a natural motion and you have to find what works for you. It may take time to adjust. I know lots of guys who went to a very qualified pitching coach and said they pitched worse than before they started.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
...You wouldn't want to teach it, any more than you would teach a young hitter to copy Julio Franco's stance or swing, but clearly some people are capable of having departures from standard form and still doing well.
...
A kernel of wisdom.
BobbleheadDoll,
I'm curious why you posted the clip of your son. You sound happy with his mechanics and his production on the mound so why did you have cap_n post the clip?
I'm just wondering what exactly you're after.
Jason
I'm curious why you posted the clip of your son. You sound happy with his mechanics and his production on the mound so why did you have cap_n post the clip?
I'm just wondering what exactly you're after.
Jason
Flip I am very happy with his mechanics. Is he perfect ? No !
I wanted other peoples imput and I got some good discussion. I agree with some negatives and not others. This is a moote question because the only thing that matters is his college coaches imput.
Can I ask you the same question ?
I'm just wondering what exactly you're after ?
I wanted other peoples imput and I got some good discussion. I agree with some negatives and not others. This is a moote question because the only thing that matters is his college coaches imput.
Can I ask you the same question ?
I'm just wondering what exactly you're after ?
I'm after the truth and I think I got it. I made an assumption that you were looking for advice to help your son improve. I was wrong.
Good luck!
Jason
Good luck!
Jason
I think for the most part the discussion has been very good. It is very interesting to see what others think.
