Thank you brother. Establishment it is because these are the best I've seen.
Shep
HOLD on INFO.....first of all I'm a little tired of the "establishment" comment.....can I help it that I played pro baseball, coached college and minor league baseball?...and baseball still puts clothes on my back and feeds me......It's the profession I chose......and continue to still work in.....
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
HOLD on INFO.....first of all I'm a little tired of the "establishment" comment.....can I help it that I played pro baseball, coached college and minor league baseball?...and baseball still puts clothes on my back and feeds me......It's the profession I chose......and continue to still work in.....
That's great. I'm happy for you.
You have an opportunity to go on a campaign to teach them how the skills of baseball are really done as opposed to how many in established baseball teach them..........or don't teach them.
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Secondly.....when I speak of head movement I am talking about taking the nose towards the catcher.....it of course will not be a perfect direct straight line.....what you speak of in the videos you posted is not what I am talking about.......at release (even in the videos you posted) the head is on the catcher and is moving toward the catcher. you do not want your face looking in the glove side dugout while the ball is still in your hand.......that is all I was saying....you are speaking of something totally different........
I see absolutley no "nose to the catcher" in any of these. Clearly the head, which controls the nose, is not going toward the catcher.
Why say that when 90% of the listeners will take it literal and 90% of them will be wrong.
I'm tired of establishment comment too.....
Have viewed countless hours of film and have basically the same philosophies so why do you guys BD/IP and a few others keep bashing The Establishment???
Have viewed countless hours of film and have basically the same philosophies so why do you guys BD/IP and a few others keep bashing The Establishment???
INFO.
You are not talking about what I was....don't now any other way to tell you....
You are not talking about what I was....don't now any other way to tell you....
Well then Info....
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
quote:There is no way you can throw without NOT moving your head at all. Especially to the side.
Take a look at some video of different pitchers. They ALL move their head to the side when they throw.
Posts: 21 | Location: Macomb, MI | Registered: August 16, 2005
RobV say it best right here in this quote and I know that LOW knows this because we talked about it last night.
Info, your trying to twist things a little bit here.
We all know the head must tilt here and can't believe Smokey said the opposite up a few posts.
IMHO
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Well then Info....
The thing you must do is rush down to spring training and show all of the pichers and pitching coaches the videos of your groundbreaking discovery......
I thought you worked in baseball? I don't.
I'm a dad at a computer who has studied and taught my sons and I know more about baseball skills than 90% of the establishment that I am exposed to.
Does that say something about me.........or them.
I do this as a hobby. It is their livelihood.
quote:think you move your head a little too much. Most good pitchers hardly move their head throughout the whole delivery. They dont pull it to the opposite side
BTW,
This is the post by Smokey that I was referring...
Shep
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
Rob,
The head is irrelevent after the ball is released....where ever your nose goes so will your back side, which has the ball in it....forward hand speed is important or should I say impairative (sp?)........
Shep
Read the above.
Is that the truth? Does your backside go where you nose goes? Look at the video.
Is forward hand speed important? What is forward hand speed? Or is the rotational speed of the hand at the end of the arm at the end of the shoulders powered by the rotation of the body what is most important to know?
Forward? Why does the hand end up near the post knee? Is that forward? No. The arm is in a rotational arc.
Maybe this will help, Info....
By moving the head I am referring to it moving side to side or jerking if you will,... BEFORE you release the ball....
By moving the head I am referring to it moving side to side or jerking if you will,... BEFORE you release the ball....
May not be worded perfectly but believe me info this guy LOW337 knows what he's talking about as far as everything and anything in pitching dept, LO fo SHO!
Educated me a bit last night in fact about a few things in pitching delivery as well as hitting.
Shep
Educated me a bit last night in fact about a few things in pitching delivery as well as hitting.
Shep
Forward hand movement as opposed to side to side hand movement....how do you explain the spin on a curve ball if the hand is moving side to side.....it moves forward for a short time....
What would be an example of side to side hand movement? I just can't imagine what you're talking about. Throwing side arm? Therefore, your words are bad. They have no meaning.
Forward. What does that mean? Yes, the ball, therefore the hand/arm goes forward. But isn't it really in an arc defined by the rotation of the spine and body and perpendicular to the spine for maximum energy transfer?
So why not talk about the arm plane and how the plane is angled to create an arm slot of which most pitchers are 3/4 or nearly 3/4. And that doing this is one of many absolutes that are required to throw your hardest.
This nose stuff and the head doesn't move stuff is way off base.
Forward. What does that mean? Yes, the ball, therefore the hand/arm goes forward. But isn't it really in an arc defined by the rotation of the spine and body and perpendicular to the spine for maximum energy transfer?
So why not talk about the arm plane and how the plane is angled to create an arm slot of which most pitchers are 3/4 or nearly 3/4. And that doing this is one of many absolutes that are required to throw your hardest.
This nose stuff and the head doesn't move stuff is way off base.
quote:.if you don't have forward hand speed it makes if very difficult to get the ball to do what you want as well as locate it
LOW, you are absolutely correct in this statement because your upperhalve has to get a running start to generate enough forward mometum to bring hand forward fast enough to throw to spots.
IMHO
By side to side handspeed I do not mean sidearm.....you do not want your hand coming around the ball....in order to throw all pitches forward armspeed is needed....if you don't have it you cannot throw FB's(sinkers in particular), CB's (it will flatten them out), SL's (cutters, slurves, you stay behind these pitches) and CH's (w/ side to side hand speed you can't sink the ball because you tend to come around the ball).....(submarine guys are another topic)....
Might I add throw to spots with movement as well.
Info, believe LOW is talking about HTQ arm slot....
SHEP
Info, believe LOW is talking about HTQ arm slot....
SHEP
I never the said the head doesn't move....you just want to avoid any violent head jerking and spinning or flying off of the pitch at least untill you release it.....
Exactly LOW
It is a fact the arm is dragging if the head "BOBBLES"
Don't mean like Barry Bonds dragging either.
Did you guys see what Barry Bonds did in SF to raise money today for charity?
Shep
It is a fact the arm is dragging if the head "BOBBLES"
Don't mean like Barry Bonds dragging either.
Did you guys see what Barry Bonds did in SF to raise money today for charity?
Shep
Exactly Shep,
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot.....I wouldn't ever teach a kid and certainly wouldn't change HS, COL or PRO pitcher to change natural arm slot.....the front side will take care of the back side provided we are talking about a person whose arm works reasonalbly well.
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot.....I wouldn't ever teach a kid and certainly wouldn't change HS, COL or PRO pitcher to change natural arm slot.....the front side will take care of the back side provided we are talking about a person whose arm works reasonalbly well.
Shep,
I did see Paula, I mean Barry.....good to see him do that....
I did see Paula, I mean Barry.....good to see him do that....
Hilarious!
Dressed up like Opray or Queen Latifa, not sure which.
Only raised about 700 dollars though.
Think I would have given 'em that much not to have to dress up like that
Dressed up like Opray or Queen Latifa, not sure which.
Only raised about 700 dollars though.
Think I would have given 'em that much not to have to dress up like that
Paula A. ??? My bad.
At least he's showing the establishment he still cares.
Shep
At least he's showing the establishment he still cares.
Shep
Shep,
I think he was supposed to be Paula Abdul ala American Idol....LOL....It was good...very funny...
I think he was supposed to be Paula Abdul ala American Idol....LOL....It was good...very funny...
Info
Do you still caarree sir?
Sheppy-JK
Do you still caarree sir?
Sheppy-JK
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
And Info I am talking about HTQ, TQ and LTQ...more difficult to throw traditional CB w/ LTQ slot...
Now you change from "forward" to HTQ, TQ and LTQ.
Why?
Why don't you say what you mean in the beginning. Forward has no meaning.
Read MN-MOM's post up in General Items didn't go to link yet.
Info,
How are you tonight sir?
Good conversation so far fellows.
Actually communicating here.
Shep
Info,
How are you tonight sir?
Good conversation so far fellows.
Actually communicating here.
Shep
You most certainly can have forward hand speed w/ all of those arm slots.....
LOW,
Think I should warn ya about info.
He loves a good arguement.
Shep
Think I should warn ya about info.
He loves a good arguement.
Shep
And as I said before you must have the forward handspeed to throw all pitches w/ desireable result.....when throwing you impart spin on the ball and to get the desired spin your hand must move forward.......
I gave him my number and told him to call me.
That would be okay. I've spoken with Info and he really is very intelligent LOW.
Great Guy actually, just brain-washed-JK Linear
Shep
Great Guy actually, just brain-washed-JK Linear
Shep
quote:Originally posted by LOW337:
And as I said before you must have the forward handspeed to throw all pitches w/ desireable result.....when throwing you impart spin on the ball and to get the desired spin your hand must move forward.......
Duh!!
Another great establishment example.
Who thinks it goes backward? or sideways?
Brainwashed.....geeeezzz.....LOL
Call me info.....i will explain it to ....
Good night fellas.
Shep
Shep
Info.....
explain to me how you spin a breaking ball w/o forward handspeed.....
then explain how you spin a CH w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin a sinker w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin or, lack thereof, a splitter.....
then explain how you spin a slider/cutter w/o forward handspeed....
I'd like to hear what you think...
explain to me how you spin a breaking ball w/o forward handspeed.....
then explain how you spin a CH w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin a sinker w/o forward handspeed....
then explain how you spin or, lack thereof, a splitter.....
then explain how you spin a slider/cutter w/o forward handspeed....
I'd like to hear what you think...
take care shep....
I really don't need "nothing" explained to me.
By nothing I mean your statement that you have to have forward hand speed.
Who doesn't know that? Who believes throwing hard comes from backward hand speed? Who believe throwing hard comes from slow speed?
As my daughter says......"No Duh!"
Perfect example of the "stuff" you get from baseball.
If we're talking pitching/hitting all I ask is you say something when you speak.
Talk about rotation into footplant. Scap loading. Tempo. Intent. Especially intent. Arm action. Something that has meaning.
By nothing I mean your statement that you have to have forward hand speed.
Who doesn't know that? Who believes throwing hard comes from backward hand speed? Who believe throwing hard comes from slow speed?
As my daughter says......"No Duh!"
Perfect example of the "stuff" you get from baseball.
If we're talking pitching/hitting all I ask is you say something when you speak.
Talk about rotation into footplant. Scap loading. Tempo. Intent. Especially intent. Arm action. Something that has meaning.
