Bryce Harper Sportsmanship

It's not the player, it's the PARENTS! Only half kidding here. His classless behaviors are well known. If he's still just a kid, what are the parents doing about it? Oh wait, didn't the parents tell us all that it was because of his unusual maturity at 16 that they let him leave high school to attend a college?

He knows better. He just chooses to ignore good character and as long as he can get away with it, will continue. I hope somewhere along the way he is "parented".

I have read about 10% of the posts on this thread, but here you go: Rizzo was on MLB this afternoon and part of the discussion / interview was about Harper. He was very positive about Harper and said his teammates really support the kid, will do anything for him. Described him as a "baseball rat" from a blue collar background who is aggressive and outspoken. Stressed that the kid is a great teammate.

Yes, I know that is Rizzo's job, support the organization and players but if he is way off base he risks looking naive and stupid.

Nonetheless, I say no excuse for blowing kisses after a HR.

= Edited by moderator = MN-Mom =

quote:

Originally posted by Gold Glove:
And what do the MLB players say about Joe West: not talented, classless punk

Funny you should ask (But not surprising, given your West fetish)

Joe has had the distinct honor of being listed in both the players' top 10 umpires and the bottom 10 umpires in the same year for several years. He appears to be a kind of "love him or hate him" guy.

I think the point may be that, he has made mistakes, but not called a classless, punk.

JMO.

'Cowboy' Joe West gets it pretty good here. Even the announcers pile on. I never understood what the fuss is about. I'm not on the field, so I don't know what everyone is saying, although sometimes it's easy to figure out.

I know a good number of you have or had sons who play / played at the college and some at the professional level. So in a way I am confused by some of the posts in this thread. Some of them almost come off as sour grapes...like the guy mentioning trading places with 18 year olds in the military. Don't get that one. I served my country proudly and have scars to show for it...but last time I checked, we don't have a military draft.

I bet there are MORE than a few kids in the military, or working jobs they didn't see themselves working, all the time wishing they had put the work in when they were playing baseball, football, basketball or more importantly put the work in with their grades when they were in school.

I know a coach who was knew Bryce and his family when he was younger. He told me the kid has a work ethic that makes 'old school' players look lazy..and this was before he had hit puberty.

There are A LOT Of VERY talented young men who have the PHYSICAL potential to make the Major Leagues. The MAJORITY of them never do...and most times it has nothing to do with their physical skills. So many other things get in their way, most of them coming from themselves.

This kid put the work in. This kid made sacrifices and chose baseball over other things most teenagers do. It's not a choice that everyone would or should make, as every kid is different...this kid put the work in and laid it all out there for his dream. He's on his way because of it.

Regardless of the hype, the articles, the magazines, the press...he STILL has to prove himself on the FIELD. And he's doing it. In Spades...and against older players...again.

Ever wonder how much **** he faces everyday since the hype started? Ever think about how many players and coaches constantly write him off as a flash in the pan? Can you imagine the pressure the kid had on him playing College Ball when most kids were worrying about prom? And you know what? He prevailed.

If you don't think all that makes you play with a chip on your shoulder, you would be wrong.

I say as long as he can back it up and keeps bringing it 100%, more power to him.

The truth is, NO MATTER what any of us thinks, the real tale is what his teammates think of him. Everything I've heard points to RESPECT...BECAUSE of the work and the intensity he brings in his game, every minute and every inning he's on or near the field.

Nice post, ctanddc.



I'll bet that you won't see him blow another kiss.......

I think most players who are professional baseball players have put the work in. They to have made sacrifices and chose baseball over other things that most teen agers do. They have put in the work and laid it all out there for their dream.

Not all players have the pressure of the hype or the benefits $$$.
They have to prove them selves every day against all odds, with coaches writing them off, doing it for very little money and with out the protection of being a high pick. Can you imagine that pressure?

But you are right that respect from his team mates has to be earned and really doesn't matter what the rest of us think.
This is Mr Harper's 1st full season. He has tremendous talent but he still has a long road ahead of him. I wish him all the luck in the world but has others have said on this site baseball has a way of humbling you.

The reason I wasn't offended by the behavior was specifically because it was Bryce Harper. Had it been any other player his age that wasn't as gifted or hardworking, yeah it would tick me off especially if it were my kid who is neither that gifted nor that hardworking.

I know....that sounds contradictory. We are taught about rules applying to everyone but in reality each situation must be evaluated on its own merits. By all accounts, Harper is a special gifted athlete and an extremely hard worker. I have been around a couple athletes like this and thanks to twitter, facebook and ESPN we get to hear and read about every move or statement today's stars make.

Do you really think yesterday's athletes were any different? The thing about gifted athletes is that they move about in this world at a faster pace than the average person both physically and mentally. Everything is instantly reactionary, on the field and sometimes off the field. It truly is part of their gift or curse. Quick twitch muscles and quick twitch responses are both a blessing and a curse.

We could go through a long list of gifted athletes whose behavior has caused us to doubt their maturity , common sense and upbringing. It's not because they are trying particularly hard to be nitwits. Now we could also name a few exceptions.......but they are the one's who have been able to slow down long enough to think their next action through just often enough to stay out of the negative spotlight.

Now I know some will discard this as simple over analysis and face saving . We want our rules to apply blanket style. Unfortunately, we, that is Americans in general, have little room for tolerance or understanding when it comes to bending the rules a little or thinking of the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law unless it's our own skin we are trying to save. Have you tried talking yourself out of a speeding ticket or stop sign violation. And check out the incarceration rates per capita compared to the rest of the world.

Bottom line is this is a tough place to screw up and these gifted athletes are often living outside our rigid boundaries. If we don't like it, it's our own fault because we are the ones that made them the star and put him on a pedestal. What parent here wouldn't want their kid to have been so gifted?

Remember that this gift comes with a huge price tag. One of constant scrutiny and criticism often over things that truly don't deserve the attention. I wouldn't expect Harper's behavior to change much and I wouldn't be surprised if he ran afoul of the law later. I also wouldn't be surprised if he gets hammered by the full extent of the law either.

I've been on the "application" side of the law for a long time. I hammered some no doubt.....but I also made sure some got a second and even a third chance when it was appropriate. I try to remember this when my own kids don't reach my expectations. So let Harper become something first before you cut him down to size.

I doubt there is going to be an epidemic of blowing kisses at pitchers on the travel ball circuit but could we outlaw "eyeblack"? Do they have to smear it all the way down to the corners of their mouths.....ridiculous.

I would hate to to experience the baseball that some of you guys think you want, here - overpopulated with nothing but fair-haired boys with square jaws and Lou Gehrig-like stoicism, who we could all fantasize will be our sons or maybe President someday...they'd all be politely aw-shucksing the hell out of the media, and falling all over themselves to emphasize it's "all about their teammates."

There's only room for a few of those guys. And those guys would all look like vanilla pudding without the contrast of the "punks" of the world.

I guarantee you, if Bryce Harper did that and started a brawl in a Phillies uniform, he'd be an instant legend and get a key to the city.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
The most priceless post here is from one who calls himself a "professional" umpire repeating what other "professional" umpires are saying about an 18 year old. Now that's cool. That's professional.

Yeah. Everybody knows that umpires are supposed to be opinion-less automatons, who keep themselves sequestered during off hours, and avoid even knowing the player's names. They're supposed to eat alone in ****** diners, and never discuss their work among peers. And, of course, they can never post opinions under anonymous logins. Its all in the Umpire's Book of Professionalism.

Nice observations, wraggarm.

Sobering reality that most will never see or understand........

Interesting thoughts regarding this topic. Maybe our villians are just as important as our heros? Sure would be boring if everyone were lilly white.

Lots of people hate the Yankees. And how about Lebron these days? Mike Tyson just got inducted into the boxing hall of fame! Didn't he eat Holyfield's ear?

Pete Rose, Denny McClain, Tyrell Pryor, OJ Simpson, etc.etc. Tiger Woods sure made things interesting also.

We're talking about some young kid blowing a kiss to a pitcher? He's done worse and he will do worse things. It will all create interest for the rest of us. Give us something to talk about and even if it's something bad, it's better than if everyone were exactly perfect.

I think the whole role model thing gets overblown. OJ was a role model for many and I doubt many of those who idolized him are running around stabbing people.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Bryce continues blowing kisses. And if he does, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

I always liked Reggie Jackson dropping his bat and watching his home runs hit the seats before running.

Bo Jackson was a treat also in so many ways, but breaking his bats over his knee or head was a gas.

People hated Ali and loved him as well for his bravado. One of my favorite lines from Ali was
'If Joe Frazier has dreams of beating me, he beter wake up and apologize.'

Usually just the pitchers are stomping around the mound or acting in some incoherent fashion to arouse the crowd.

It's entertainment.

If Harper's only transgressions are that he blows kisses at pitchers after a home run, I can accept that over the players who have gambled, done steroids or knowingly acted in any fashion that hurts the game of baseball.

SO I guess that people here who don't care for Harper's attitude wouldn't have cared for Babe Ruth's attitude. Or Pete Rose's attitude. Or Bob Feller. The list goes on.

Let's remember the difference between gamesmanship and sportsmanship. Good gamesmanship sometimes looks like bad sportsmanship.

Gamesmanship is the attempt to increase the likelihood of winning by controlling things around the game. Often it involves breaking down your opponent's will, resolve, or confidence. By blowing that kiss, Bryce Harper was establishing the pecking order for the next time they meet. He was saying, a la Chevy Chase, "I'm Bryce Harper and you're not." He owns that pitcher from now until the pitcher proves otherwise.

Some players are good enough to get away with a little extra swagger. As long as they're willing to take the heat when they don't succeed, they can strut when they do. As Dizzy Dean famously said, "It ain't bragging if you can back it up."

quote:

Originally posted by Matt13:
= Edited by moderator = MN-Mom =

You've got to be kidding me.

Matt13,

I sent you a PM.

Julie

Bryce Harper Promoted to AA

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I think the whole role model thing gets overblown.

PG,
Let me first say that I'm always VERY impressed by your contributions to the site, your proper handling of balancing your business interests with your advice and your ability and willingness to throw in personal opinion here and there.

So, it will be kind of fun to disagree with you for a change...

I've raised three kids and have always had a keen fascination with watching how other parents raise theirs and see "how things turn out". It seems that no matter how good the parenting is, there is a disproportionate degree of influence from the traditional celebrity/athlete/rock star role models. Our youth see these figures in the spotlight and love to, in varying degrees, emulate. They are sponges. They are fixated on the influence of stars more than that of parents, teachers, coaches, etc.

wraggArm’s “fair haired boys” post was very interesting and there’s some beef behind it. But the truth is that human nature deems this all-vanilla world impossible.

So, while I too am guilty of occasionally surfing the headlines for train wrecks, I am always rooting for more Joe Mauers, Peyton Mannings, Arthur Ashes and Mia Hamms to surface so that our little sponges soak up more clean water than dirty.

Cabbagedad

Well written!

I would love for my son to take seriously the important things I try to teach him but sometimes he just isn't interested in what dad has to say and turns elsewhere for answers or examples.

On the other hand it is a big burden for those in the spotlight who are now watched almost 24-7. Hopefully as those people mature, so will their acknowledgement of their influence.

Blowing kisses may add a little spice to the game but if it causes his team mates to get plunked they are not going to take to kindly to it.

NJBB, his team mates will be thanking him for upping their on base percentage.

Bryce will meet his match, a young sweet blonde. He better start stashing his $$$$.

Another minor incident...

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?...9&categoryid=2378529

..that, on it's own, not that big of a deal. But the pattern continues...

It will be interesting to see how often we are given the opportunity to revive this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Another minor incident...

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?...9&categoryid=2378529

..that, on it's own, not that big of a deal. But the pattern continues...

It will be interesting to see how often we are given the opportunity to revive this thread.

That's too bad, he's quite a talented kid. Obviously he still has plenty of growing up to do.

Quick comment...

I saw him play in Richmond a few weeks ago. I could not believe...let me emphasize this...could not believe the amount of heckling and abusive fan behavior directed towards him throughout the game.

18-year old kid.

I am neither a supporter nor a detractor. I just thought the level of fan abuse was embarrassing to witness. Perhaps the worst I have ever seen, at any level.

We need to think about that, and perhaps its impact on the young man, while we apply our viewpoints.

justbaseball,

Thank you for sharing that in-person account. Most of us are only seeing a 30-second clip here and there. Your story provides a lot more context for the young man's actions.

Thanks,

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Quick comment...

I saw him play in Richmond a few weeks ago. I could not believe...let me emphasize this...could not believe the amount of heckling and abusive fan behavior directed towards him throughout the game.

18-year old kid.

I am not a supporter nor a detractor. I just thought the level of fan abuse was embarrassing to witness. Perhaps the worst I have ever seen, at any level.

We need to think about that, and perhaps its impact on the young man, while we apply our viewpoints.

I don't disagree with this, but he needs to be able to deal with it. Robert Stock dealt with it at USC. Having a thick skin is very important in baseball.

While the blowing kisses was a little bit over the top, the whole story has to be known to really know what led to that. But aren't we holding him to a higher standard if we start criticizing him every time he argues over a third strike and is ejected because you see this stuff every day in pro ball. He is in pro ball so he has just as much right to argue as any 22 year old even if he is 18. And he was rightly ejected. So things just move on from there.

I am certainly not going to say what is in the video is okay, but it is pretty darn likely similar things occurred this week in other Milb games with other Milb hitters.
Most of these guys have now played 120 or so games and it is hot, humid, they are very tired and nerves are on edge.
Same is true with the Milb umpires.
To support what justbaseball posted, nearly every Milb organization tells their players to not wear team gear/hats off the field or anywhere in towns. There are just too many bad experiences with a few fans even if the player is an unknown.
Build in thirsty Thursdays, dollar beer night, the beer batter concepts and some fans can be brutal.
Even for those not in the limelight, it can be brutally tough to block everything.
Come the dog days like now, with nerves on edge, and it is truly tough.
That video happens in Milb with quite a few more than Harper. Personally, I don't pay much attention to it.

In Josh Hamiltons book he talks a little bit about the fans,when he was in the minors. For a young man just learning his way around an adult life..........very few would want their kids treated that way.

Heckle the big leaguers, they can't hear it anymore.

Envy and jealousy is not nice.

I've been watching Harper play the game since he was 10-11 years old in the travel ball circuit on the west coast. He's an amazingly talented kid, and I'm a big fan. He's the ultimate competitor, and plays with serious passion. Unfortunately, what you see currently in those 30 second clips, is what's been going on for several years. I don't condone the heckling in the stadiums that he has to endure, but truth be told, temper tantrums and poor sportsmanship were the norm when he was younger as well.

Nobody works harder and wants it more than Bryce Harper, his work ethic is off the charts. I hope he grows and matures(he'll be 19 in a couple months)more mentally. I'm looking forward to watching this kid on a major league field in the very near future.

Not every kid is ready for every situation. His parents made the choice to put him in this situation - graduating HS early, quick JUCO stint - while apparently forgetting to teach him basic ballfield decorum. Now players, coaches and fans will give him the education. He will either learn or be heckled the rest of his career. It is unfortunate that he hasn't learned that it is in his best interest to practice a little humility.

He's young, maybe he will change. He will see a lot more Harper jerseys in the stands if he will adapt.

I knew as soon as I saw this today, the haters would be out. There sure are a lot of folks that jump on every little thing that young Mr. Harper does or doesn't do. It appears that some are even hoping that he fails. The self-rightous envy is almost sickening. It's almost comical the way some know how they would and Mr. Harper should act in every situation, yet none have actually been in these situations. To paraphrase an old saying, walk a mile in his shoes.

I believe that once one chooses to accept a position as a professional athlete, age is no longer a consideration. Harper is not a kid. He is a professional baseball player. He will learn to act like one or he won't. If he does he will enjoy even more accolades. If he doesn't, he won't be the first spoiled star.

Minor league umpires at 17, 18, 19 are expected to act professionally, not like kids. If they forget, they are subject to severe consequences, including being released.

A professional should act professionally.

getagoodpitchtohit,
Thank You! Someone understands a little bit! People mainly adults who "think" they know everything about everything will be all over this kid just because they want him to fail. It's terrible that there are people out there who only care about this kid failing. I can't wait until he makes it to the HoF and his speech is this " I made it! Lets hear what you have to say now!" and walks off the stage.

I don't want Harper to fail, but I do want to see improvement. I have no idea if his attitude is improving, but I do feel like negative behavior will make the highlight film.

As far as haters, etc, it appears that people just don't like the kid. Why him and not Strasburg? Look at some of the other young kids, Posey, Haywood, Freeman, I'm sure y'all can think of some more. What is it about Harper?