Bryce Harper Sportsmanship

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Matt13 said...The fact that many posters' initial comments in this thread are not consistent with MLB's published directives to its umpires is Exhibit A.

I can read MLBs publishd rules. You've changed the subject. I'm talking about Umpire interpretation and consistency....it ain't there. BTW...CPLZ is correct. There are a number of umpires that are not up to snuff (buckner is one of a few, but he got this call right) just like in every profession....that is life. There is no need to defend them.

That is fine if you want to hide behind your rule book. There are plenty of games where the players throw their helmets and do not get ejected. Watch a few games.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
I can read MLBs publishd rules. You've changed the subject.

I didn't bring up the subject.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
I'm talking about [Umpire interpretation and consistency....it ain't there. BTW...CPLZ is correct. There are a number of umpires that are not up to snuff (buckner is one of a few) just like in every profession....that is life. There is no need to defend them.

I did not defend the overall performance of any umpire. I stated that this particular ejection was correct.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
That is fine if you want to hide behind your rule book. There are plenty of games where the players throw their helmets and do not get ejected. Watch a few games.

I've already asked for someone to show me any instance in which a helmet was spiked without ejection. No one has come up with one.

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by Matt13:

Lastly, as career Army, lose the avatar. You didn't earn it.

Your ignorance seems without end. 11b and then selected to serve with more professional units. So save the puffy chested career Army garbage.

How stupid are you?

That's funny, since I expect professionalism from my Soldiers. Now you see my confusion.

I do see your confusion, you've obviously never spent any time with a combat unit if you expect professionalism from your soldiers. BTW Einstein, professional soldier is a term used for a specific type of unit, not a descriptor of a personality trait. The fact that you didn't pick up on that tells me all I need to know about your career in the Army, so stop with tough guy career Army garbage.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by Matt13:

Lastly, as career Army, lose the avatar. You didn't earn it.

Your ignorance seems without end. 11b and then selected to serve with more professional units. So save the puffy chested career Army garbage.

How stupid are you?

That's funny, since I expect professionalism from my Soldiers. Now you see my confusion.

I do see your confusion, you've obviously never spent any time with a combat unit if you expect professionalism from your soldiers. BTW Einstein, professional soldier is a term used for a specific type of unit, not a descriptor of a personality trait. The fact that you didn't pick up on that tells me all I need to know about your career in the Army, so stop with tough guy career Army garbage.

Wrong, again.

17 months in combat and 8 years total with combat units out of almost 13.

Professional soldier is not a term used for a unit. Take a look at a 2166-8 or the NCO Creed.

So, I am going to say this outright--I don't think you have ever served.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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I have never, in my 30 plus years of umpiring, at any level above JV, seen an umpire fail to eject a player who threw his helmet in reaction to a call or towards an umpires or from the dugout.

There's no evidence he was upset with the call. Much more likely he was upset with himself over the at bat. He also didn't throw the helmet toward the ump. He threw it with his hand away from the ump and it happened to bounce a different direction but still landed more than a body's length away from the ump. You're reading things into the situation that didn't happen if you watch the tape. Should he have thrown his helmet, no. But should he have been tossed, no.

You must have seen a different video. I saw Harper touch the base, glance at the umpire to see the call and then throw his helmet.

That's an ejection, every time.

What does Bryce Harper getting thrown out of a game (right or wrong) have to do with who served the country?

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
What does Bryce Harper getting thrown out of a game (right or wrong) have to do with who served the country?

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You must have seen a different video. I saw Harper touch the base, glance at the umpire to see the call and then throw his helmet.

I'm sure we saw the same video. If he's really upset with the call, I would have expected to see more...throw up his hands, yell at the ump, get in his face, etc. You see that stuff all the time with no one getting thrown out. Harper didn't do any of it in the video I saw. Maybe he was upset with the call, maybe not...I think not. I don't see how you know that solely from throwing his hat.

Question... Should an umpire get personal and throw fuel on an argument so that the argument escalates?

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
What does Bryce Harper getting thrown out of a game (right or wrong) have to do with who served the country?

I think you know the answer, did you have a point you'd like to make?

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
What does Bryce Harper getting thrown out of a game (right or wrong) have to do with who served the country?

Thread drift. It happens.

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I think you know the answer, did you have a point you'd like to make?

No

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Originally posted by PGStaff:
Question... Should an umpire get personal and throw fuel on an argument so that the argument escalates?

Good question...and there's a recent example.

When Lance Barrett threw out AJ Pyrzinski this week while AJ was catching (btw, you can see in the video that AJ was not showing Barrett up by turning around to talk to him or making any demonstrative objections), Robin Ventura came out of the dugout to defend AJ. He wasn't going off on Barrett, but then the crew chief, Jim Joyce, got between Barrett and Ventura rather quickly, bumped Ventura and began screaming at him. It was pretty obvious that Joyce escalated the incident.

And BTW, Ventura did get thrown out. He did not come out to argue balls and strikes, an auto ejection, he came out to argue the ejection of his catcher who was being thrown out for no apparent reason.

Ok folks, I'm surprised this hasn't morphed into Obamacare yet. Let us all agree Mr. Harper was having a "bad hair" day and move on to more important things like the price of gas.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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You must have seen a different video. I saw Harper touch the base, glance at the umpire to see the call and then throw his helmet.

I'm sure we saw the same video. If he's really upset with the call, I would have expected to see more...throw up his hands, yell at the ump, get in his face, etc. You see that stuff all the time with no one getting thrown out. Harper didn't do any of it in the video I saw. Maybe he was upset with the call, maybe not...I think not. I don't see how you know that solely from throwing his hat.

Throwing of equipment or uniform parts on the bases is an ejection. You may not like it. You may not agree with it. But the umpire followed protocol. If you're unhappy with it, argue about the protocol, not the umpire. He did what he was supposed to do. If you don't want him doing it, you need to take the issue up with MLB.

perhaps the umpires are getting fed up with his temper tantrums

Bryce Harper may not have been emotionally ready to play MLB ball. The season is a long grind mentally and physically. Due to his potential he's under the microscope which is more pressure. Given he's in the Nats lineup rather than the minors they figure Harper can grasp the professionalism aspect of the game on the fly playing with veteran MLB'ers. I saw a graphic the other day Harper's stats are similar to another former 19yo rookie named Mickey Mantle. Harper has the potential to be a Mickey Mantle if he doesn't kill himself emotionally.

I read a great article on Harper, I have to go back and find it.
You cannot compare him to someone else, everyone is different. I hate when they compare him to Trout, he isn't Trout. He most likely wasn't emotionally ready but the organization felt he would have to learn along the way, this was the best place for him. RJM got that right.

He also adds a lot to the game as well as the team. His teammates see him as the spark that adds to the fire and admit he is a clown and embarasses himself often and after every game the manager has to have discussions of what he did right and did wrong.

Getting upset after you have just had two great at bats is what he does, so do others, they just don't show it they keep in inside. Hopefully he learns to control it, as it won't be so acceptable when he is 23,24,25.

How old is Brendan Ryan of the Mariners? I saw him yesterday throw both his bat and helmet to the ground after striking out. I thought it to be embarrassing.

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Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
How old is Brendan Ryan of the Mariners? I saw him yesterday throw both his bat and helmet to the ground after striking out. I thought it to be embarrassing.

Did he get ejected from the game? If I understood others correctly that's supposed to be automatic by rule.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
How old is Brendan Ryan of the Mariners? I saw him yesterday throw both his bat and helmet to the ground after striking out. I thought it to be embarrassing.

Did he get ejected from the game? If I understood others correctly that's supposed to be automatic by rule.

Not on a swinging strike...no one said that.

So it's an automatic ejection by rule if you throw your helmet after being thrown out at first, but not after striking out at the plate?

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
So it's an automatic ejection by rule if you throw your helmet after being thrown out at first, but not after striking out at the plate?

It's automatic if done in protest of a call, no matter where.

I think it was Kemp from the Dodgers who did the exact same thing yesterday that Harper did last week and was not tossed. How about a little consistentency with the calls.

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I think it was Kemp from the Dodgers who did the exact same thing yesterday that Harper did last week and was not tossed. How about a little consistentency with the calls.

How bout a little respect?

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
So it's an automatic ejection by rule if you throw your helmet after being thrown out at first, but not after striking out at the plate?

Not on a swinging strike three. But, yes, on a called strike three.

So the determination must be made whether the thrown equipment has something to do with the call of the umpire?

I recall AJ Pieryznski chucking his helmet while going down the line earlier this year...but it was a reaction to how ridiculously good the play on his grounder was.

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Originally posted by fillsfan:
I think it was Kemp from the Dodgers who did the exact same thing yesterday that Harper did last week and was not tossed. How about a little consistentency with the calls.

It is not "a rose is a rose is a rose." The MLB calls for an ejection of a player or manager who throws equipment in the direction of an umpire or is reaction to a call.

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Originally posted by TPM:

Hopefully he learns to control it, as it won't be so acceptable when he is 23,24,25.

It isn't acceptable now, as he is, hopefully, learning.

So I wonder when we will start seeing little league players throwing their helmets in games because they are emulating the punk, Harper?

This is a pic of a local HS player. His Chicago area school has had some success recently winning several state championships. The coaches at his school, (who btw, have been admonished for several years for flaunting rules) now allow HS players to act like this.

So, to answer bostonbulldogbaseball's question...

As soon as the coaches and parents prioritize winning over all other aspects of learning from the team experience. Then all behaviors become acceptable.

Remember how Martha Raddatz of ABC evening news was "horrified" over the urine on the dead Taliban soldiers? Funny thing is, she had no problem with the 7.62 mm hole in the guys neck that killed him, that wasn't even commented on. As priorities shift balance, we will lose perspective of what is truly important and the accepted behaviors of our youth.

In some ways though, I would rather see a Bryce Harper throw his helmet because he actually cares, than see a Jimmy Rollins go through his yearly "dog it" to first base act because he doesn't care enough.

I see nothing wrong with the kid in the picture above celebrating a touchdown just as I don't see anything wrong with a team mobbing each other after a walk off hit that wins a regular season game (even though it's juvenile IMO).

Harper, by his actions of throwing his helmet and having a tantrum is just showing he has no class.

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
I see nothing wrong with the kid in the picture above celebrating a touchdown...

The problem, as it would have been explained to me in an era when my coach would have been explaining it loudly at 4 inches with a grip on my face mask...

is that the gesture is a, "look at me" pose. But he didn't do it, he and 10 other guys did it. It is not the same as being mobbed in a walk off, because that is a group action and not singular. If the kid above, ran into the end zone and celebrated with the other 10 kids who helped make the play successful, no prob, the team kicked some butt and took a moment to celebrate. The above photo is testimony to the attitude that even in team sport, the individual is now allowed to be larger than the team.

When mommy and daddy and coach permit this, then the showing up of refs and umps isn't far behind.

You can Tebow in Madden 13.

I don't like when guys throw their helmets toward the dugout after the third out. What makes them too cool to put it away, properly?

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
So I wonder when we will start seeing little league players throwing their helmets in games because they are emulating the punk, Harper?

How many LL'er are chewing tobacco because they see it on tv?

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
So I wonder when we will start seeing little league players throwing their helmets in games because they are emulating the punk, Harper?

How many LL'er are chewing tobacco because they see it on tv?

That's stupid analogy. How many little league players are old enough to even buy it?

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
So I wonder when we will start seeing little league players throwing their helmets in games because they are emulating the punk, Harper?

How many LL'er are chewing tobacco because they see it on tv?

That's stupid analogy. How many little league players are old enough to even buy it?

Stupid analogy? I think you're stupid. I think you're intolerant. I think you're ignorant. You live with your head in some 1950's cloud. You're also a racist and misogynist. How personal would you like to make our exchange?

I have a friend that likes to ask me, when the opportunity presents..."Chip, how stupid are you?", to which I usually reply, "We haven't seen the bottom of that barrel yet."

I had to look up, misogynist...and ignorance temporarily abates.

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Originally posted by Matt13:

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
So it's an automatic ejection by rule if you throw your helmet after being thrown out at first, but not after striking out at the plate?

It's automatic if done in protest of a call, no matter where.

I wasn't going to get back into this but I've been watching the Dodgers-Padres the last two nights.

Two nights ago, Matt Kemp struck out for the third out of the inning. He walked very slowly out of the box and tossed his helmet towards the dugout. No ejection.

Last night, Dodger batter (can't remember who) hits a grounder to first, pitcher covers. Pitcher gets to the base as the batter slides head first into the bag. Gets called out. Just past the bag, on his knees, he spikes his helmet and it bounces up to about his head level (maybe 3-4 feet). No ejection.

If this is a rule, my observation is that it is not universally upheld and I'll even suggest rarely called.