Great post Coach2709. I agree, and I think after reading your post and a few others that I need to give him a little rope.....just a little.
He is 18, and I remember what that was like a hundred years ago. Nobody's asking me to like him right now. I respect his talent but he has a lot of life learning to do. At this time, I would not want my kids or anyone else's kids to look up to him as a role model. He didn't ask to be a role model but that is the reality of the situation....he will become a role model by default as a public figure. I will be looking for two things on the baseball field......is he a good teammate, and does he set a positive example for kids. Attitude is everything. I'm looking forward to watching him play, and mature in Wash DC. JMO.
PS....I've noticed Harper is a very polarizing figure based upon these posts. Very few posts are holding the middle ground. Seems to be a lot of pro or cons.
Quite frankly, baseball is made even more interesting when we have "villains" or controversial players and actions by players. The storyline behind individual games is often what makes that game stick out in our memory. The Boston-New York series that just took place has that type of "controversial storyline" with Ortiz's actions followed by Girardi's, Beckett's and Sabathia's reactions. Harper will be the type player that is in the middle of this stuff with his attitude and like it or not it makes for great conversation and arguments. Just look at this thread and he's not even in ML baseball yet. I, for one can hardly wait!
quote:Some are coming down hard on him because he's 18 and some are giving him slack because he's 18. So when is the right age for being held more accountable for actions?
This is a good point. It depends on the action. If he was caught with a joint or staying out too late or saying something stupid to the media, I'd say these are things you learn at his age, give the kid a break. The basic sportsmanship stuff should have been taught/learned much earlier.
quote:The basic sportsmanship stuff should have been taught/learned much earlier.
So, how about Lebron James and Dwayne Wade? Playfully boxing right in front of the Mavs bench when they are ahead? Then after Dirk Nowitzki plays sick and dominates them in the 4th quarter, the next day they mock him on camera. If memory serves, they are not 18. Where's the outrage over their poor sportsmanship? Yet an 18 year old kid in the minors gets this? Simply crazy.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Lebron James and Dwayne Wade... Where's the outrage over their poor sportsmanship?
The outrage will come when the Mavs win again. Here, we're not allowed to root for anything "Dallas", but it's perfectly legal to root against the Heat.
This thing between players doesn't bother me. They'll figure it out.
I have a bigger problem with Jason Werth cursing out a dad in front of his kid because the dad 'interfered' with Werth and a foul ball in the stands. And Washington gave him $125 million.
one fastball in hie ear and he will straiighten outreal quickly
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Lebron James and Dwayne Wade... Where's the outrage over their poor sportsmanship?
The outrage will come when the Mavs win again. Here, we're not allowed to root for anything "Dallas", but it's perfectly legal to root against the Heat.
This thing between players doesn't bother me. They'll figure it out.
I have a bigger problem with Jason Werth cursing out a dad in front of his kid because the dad 'interfered' with Werth and a foul ball in the stands. And Washington gave him $125 million.
Ask any Chicago Bulls fan or any Cleveland Cavaliers fan and you will hear plenty of outrage.
As for Harper, lets see if he continues this stuff as he gets closer to the big leagues. He is 18 and 18 year olds tend to be arrogant and full of themselves, especially the ones that are outstanding athletes. All of us remember the jocks from High School (ok, some us were those people) and how they acted. Bryce seems to still be in that mode. Maturity takes time.
Mountain out of molehill if you ask me. No if he is doing this at 24 then there might be a problem.
I think this whole thing was blown out of proportion. Was what he did appropriate? No. The Nationals know that, the Suns know that, ESPN knows that, HSBBWeb knows that. Heck, Harper probably knows that. I've done plenty of things on the field that I 100% know are inappropriate but for some reason..whether its immaturity, competitive nature or just plain old stupidity, they happened. I think the Nats took the right approach to the situation...handle it internally and let bygones be bygones. With so many other "role models" in baseball doing the wrong thing, I don't think Harper blowing a kiss was such a big deal. Baseball's reputation has been completely massacred over the past decade, and I don't think an 18 year old kid in A ball pimping a home run is too much of a big deal to worry about.
On other note...go Mavs. Dirk is a class act, Lebron is a joke.
On other note...go Mavs. Dirk is a class act, Lebron is a joke.
Good post JH!
It's really not that big of a deal.IMO
I also agree about Dirk, but not sure I would describe Lebron as a joke.
It's really not that big of a deal.IMO
I also agree about Dirk, but not sure I would describe Lebron as a joke.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Good post JH!
It's really not that big of a deal.IMO
I also agree about Dirk, but not sure I would describe Lebron as a joke.
I agree, it's good to get a take on it from someone close to his age. I am probably sure that MOST if not ALL of our players have done something on the field that was inappropriate. If not, then you are lucky, your players must be PERFECT!
Dirk is class act, not sure what's really up with LeBron, but IMO Wade is and always will be my fav player!
[/QUOTE]So, how about Lebron James and Dwayne Wade? Playfully boxing right in front of the Mavs bench when they are ahead? Then after Dirk Nowitzki plays sick and dominates them in the 4th quarter, the next day they mock him on camera. If memory serves, they are not 18. Where's the outrage over their poor sportsmanship? Yet an 18 year old kid in the minors gets this? Simply crazy.[/QUOTE]
I'll bet they are not talking about Bryce Harper on the basketball websites either. The whole purpose of the thread was "competitive or classless?". I'm not sure all of this would have unfolded if not for a specific discussion about the action. I'm sure that Mr. Harper has done a lot of things (both good and bad) that I would have an opinion about if I was asked and viewed them, but I will not go out of my way to follow him and comment about it. I think this has been a nice little discussion that touched almost all the sides it was intended to. I don't think anything has been blown out of proportion because it is only a discussion. We all feel certain ways about certain things and hopefully we learn from each other talking about various circumstances. To read anything else into this is missing the point. It is very hard to have a message board without anything to talk about. Maybe this topic has run its course....
Dave
Edited due to user lameness inserting the wrong quote....
I'll bet they are not talking about Bryce Harper on the basketball websites either. The whole purpose of the thread was "competitive or classless?". I'm not sure all of this would have unfolded if not for a specific discussion about the action. I'm sure that Mr. Harper has done a lot of things (both good and bad) that I would have an opinion about if I was asked and viewed them, but I will not go out of my way to follow him and comment about it. I think this has been a nice little discussion that touched almost all the sides it was intended to. I don't think anything has been blown out of proportion because it is only a discussion. We all feel certain ways about certain things and hopefully we learn from each other talking about various circumstances. To read anything else into this is missing the point. It is very hard to have a message board without anything to talk about. Maybe this topic has run its course....
Dave
Edited due to user lameness inserting the wrong quote....
The word in MiLB umpiring circles, if anyone cares, is that Bryce is a "very talented, classless punk" who will, without a doubt make his mark in the majors.
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It's not necessarily about an 18 year old phenom being full of himself...it is bigger than that. It's about kids who, because of their talent have never been told "no", by anyone, and now never will be. This kind of "no responsibility" power is dangerous and corrupting to both the individual and the society. And it is about those kind of individuals in a twitter/facebook world where they can become bigger than life, and provide a example for other kids. Maybe those are the kind of role models we want for our kids. I tend to differ.
44
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It's not necessarily about an 18 year old phenom being full of himself...it is bigger than that. It's about kids who, because of their talent have never been told "no", by anyone, and now never will be. This kind of "no responsibility" power is dangerous and corrupting to both the individual and the society. And it is about those kind of individuals in a twitter/facebook world where they can become bigger than life, and provide a example for other kids. Maybe those are the kind of role models we want for our kids. I tend to differ.
44.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The word in MiLB umpiring circles, if anyone cares, is that Bryce is a "very talented, classless punk" who will, without a doubt make his mark in the majors.
Who cares what umpires thing. They are always wrong anyway.
Interesting discussion of Zack Houchins situattion on Virginia forum. Addresses the electronic age we live in. I guess that Harper's kiss pales in comparison to Houchins posts. At least if I was a manager / coach / owner / I would rather answer questions about Harper than Houchins.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Who cares what umpires thing. They are always wrong anyway.
Priceless.
It is something that players do not do. If they do it they have to live with the consequences. It has nothing to do with who he is imo. He could be a no name player or a Bryce Harper. Its still pathetic behavior. You would think he would know better. So since he did it you have to think he believes he can because he is Bryce Harper. He will either learn from it or he will continue to act like a clown. We will see.
Jimmy, you do understand the wink is sarcasm, right? <excuse the typo>
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Exactly.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
It is something that players do not do. If they do it they have to live with the consequences. It has nothing to do with who he is imo. He could be a no name player or a Bryce Harper. Its still pathetic behavior. You would think he would know better. So since he did it you have to think he believes he can because he is Bryce Harper.
Exactly.
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
You would think he would know better. So since he did it you have to think he believes he can because he is Bryce Harper.
Or maybe he did it because he is impulsive, like a lot of people his age, no matter their upbringing or fame.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Jimmy, you do understand the wink is sarcasm, right? <excuse the typo>
Yep...understood. But the typo in a post stating that umpires are always wrong was priceless.
quote:Originally posted by Matt13:quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
You would think he would know better. So since he did it you have to think he believes he can because he is Bryce Harper.
Or maybe he did it because he is impulsive, like a lot of people his age, no matter their upbringing or fame.
Exactly. I am sure there are grown men who have posted in this topic that have never done anything impulsive. I guess most tend to forget as they get older.
The most priceless post here is from one who calls himself a "professional" umpire repeating what other "professional" umpires are saying about an 18 year old. Now that's cool. That's professional.
Look no one agrees with what he did, he did it, he'll learn. Did he do it because he was Bryce Harper, most likely.
However, if you all think that no other player exists among young players with that type of "I am who I am attitude", take a trip around the milb circuit, they exist in every lineup, you just don't know their names. Many of these studs became millionaires at 18, 19 and headed if not already at the ML level. It's not right (the chips they carry on their shoulder which teams love), but it is what seperates them from all the rest.
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Impulsive? I've got to 'fess up TPM. Once, when I was dumb and single, I did something compulsive. I bought a mango. Got it home and didn't have a clue as to what to do with it. I sat it on the counter next to my never used yogurt maker. There they sat...my not so dynamic duo.
The first week or so it smelled fragrant...tempting almost. The next couple of weeks it smelled foul...taunting almost. Noticeably bad. So bad that the tenants in the other half of the duplex hung a half dozen of those little 'pine tree' air freshners on the casing surrounding my front door. Subtle? Not those folks!
I finally decided it wasn't salvageable and I scooped it into an old pie tin and pitched it over the fence into the woods. I don't think any of the scavengers were interested in it. Too exotic for their acorn and chokecherry tastes!
That episode sure took care of my compulsiveness! Haven't bought a mango since. And never did use that yogurt maker either.
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- "I am sure there are grown men who have posted in this topic that have never done anything impulsive. I guess most tend to forget as they get older."
Impulsive? I've got to 'fess up TPM. Once, when I was dumb and single, I did something compulsive. I bought a mango. Got it home and didn't have a clue as to what to do with it. I sat it on the counter next to my never used yogurt maker. There they sat...my not so dynamic duo.
The first week or so it smelled fragrant...tempting almost. The next couple of weeks it smelled foul...taunting almost. Noticeably bad. So bad that the tenants in the other half of the duplex hung a half dozen of those little 'pine tree' air freshners on the casing surrounding my front door. Subtle? Not those folks!
I finally decided it wasn't salvageable and I scooped it into an old pie tin and pitched it over the fence into the woods. I don't think any of the scavengers were interested in it. Too exotic for their acorn and chokecherry tastes!
That episode sure took care of my compulsiveness! Haven't bought a mango since. And never did use that yogurt maker either.
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quote:Originally posted by baseballrelics:
even he forgets how much he sucked at spring training.
You are kidding, right? Talk to some of the Nats players and they will tell you how well he hit this spring.
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
WSH OF 13 18 3 7 3 0 0 5 10 1 3 0 0 .450 .556 .389
Not too shabby for 13 games. If these are numbers to regret then I hope I have a team that plays this terrible one day.
WSH OF 13 18 3 7 3 0 0 5 10 1 3 0 0 .450 .556 .389
Not too shabby for 13 games. If these are numbers to regret then I hope I have a team that plays this terrible one day.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:quote:Originally posted by baseballrelics:
even he forgets how much he sucked at spring training.
You are kidding, right? Talk to some of the Nats players and they will tell you how well he hit this spring.
He must be, Harper went to big league spring training, how many 18 year olds get that opportunity?
Check out his stats, he is tied for 14 HR in his league, the person he is tied with is 4 years his senior and former college player.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
The most priceless post here is from one who calls himself a "professional" umpire repeating what other "professional" umpires are saying about an 18 year old. Now that's cool. That's professional.
There's no issue with that, nor any conflict with what I stated.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The word in MiLB umpiring circles, if anyone cares, is that Bryce is a "very talented, classless punk" who will, without a doubt make his mark in the majors.
Matt,
This is what I was refering to. Jimmy doesn't like it when people here complain (as an example, about ML umpire's poor calls) but it's ok to call an 18 year old a classless punk..I just didn't get that.
You misunderstand TPM....I have no issue with people complaining about incorrect calls...it's been done forever. I have an issue with people not understanding "why" a incorrect call was made, or basing their opinion on their lack of knowledge of rules or mechanics.
My comment about Bryce is the repetition of a well known adn public opinion held by some players, umpires and sportswriters. If it violates any rule to post it here amongst the many other negatives posts, I'd be happy to delete it.
That he is 18 is irrelevant. Bryce has put himself out there to compete with and be compared to all other MiLB players. With that will come praise when he deserves it and being called out when he deserves it.
My comment about Bryce is the repetition of a well known adn public opinion held by some players, umpires and sportswriters. If it violates any rule to post it here amongst the many other negatives posts, I'd be happy to delete it.
That he is 18 is irrelevant. Bryce has put himself out there to compete with and be compared to all other MiLB players. With that will come praise when he deserves it and being called out when he deserves it.
Do you think there is something common in the make up of many great hitters that exhibits itself in ways that people have written about here ?
Like someone posted earlier, it appears there are two opinions here, and no middle ground. After reading this extensive thread, and with my son's recent experience I come to the conclusion that it takes two to tango. Everyone in the world knows Bryce is probably the most famous draft pick in years. I witnessed a "classless" pitcher the other night and he was older than Harper, talking trash to son and his teammate. What bothered me the most was these guys get my son to talk back and I don't care for that either. Give him a dirty look but don't talk back so much the umpire has to intervene.
The pitcher was throwing a very good game, went all 9 innings too, but left with a no decision. It was late in the game and sons buddy was up to bat, he called time out late, pitcher was already in his windup and umpire granted hitter time out. Pitcher threw the pitch 6 feet above the hitter into the screen. Needless to say, some fans laughed at that, umpire should not have granted time out with pitcher in windup. It embarrassed the pitcher, so next pitch he throws a heater and batter strikes out. He tells our hitter in not so nice words never to call time out like that again. Son goes up next and pitcher strikes him out and he again says something unprintable to son and that starts son off. There is more trash talk in baseball than most people see or hear about.
Harper is a very gifted hitter, we all know that, just keep in mind he is under tremendous pressure that 99% of ballplayers will never experience. At least Bryce is an American born player not some cheap foreign player MLB imported. But that's a subject for another day.
The pitcher was throwing a very good game, went all 9 innings too, but left with a no decision. It was late in the game and sons buddy was up to bat, he called time out late, pitcher was already in his windup and umpire granted hitter time out. Pitcher threw the pitch 6 feet above the hitter into the screen. Needless to say, some fans laughed at that, umpire should not have granted time out with pitcher in windup. It embarrassed the pitcher, so next pitch he throws a heater and batter strikes out. He tells our hitter in not so nice words never to call time out like that again. Son goes up next and pitcher strikes him out and he again says something unprintable to son and that starts son off. There is more trash talk in baseball than most people see or hear about.
Harper is a very gifted hitter, we all know that, just keep in mind he is under tremendous pressure that 99% of ballplayers will never experience. At least Bryce is an American born player not some cheap foreign player MLB imported. But that's a subject for another day.
quote:Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
There is more trash talk in baseball than most people see or hear about.
Last night in FSL two teams cleared their benches, I heard punches were thrown but not sure the details. I am sure there was trash talk. There is lots of rivarly between certain teams, and lots of tension (see Red Sox/Yankees), it's even there in the milb as well. It's not pretty but it exists. As a friend of mine said, too much testosterone at one place at one time.
Baseball is an international game, on certain teams many of their lower level players are from latin america. Some are million dollar signees. Some get decent money others are FA just like here. I don't get the comment bought cheap, isn't an american born FA player getting a grand to sign and a ticket getting bought just as cheap?
The amazing part is that many of these players are VERY, VERY good, how they fill into the culture determines if they remain.
TPM, you should see some of the beer league softball games around here. My friends were the worst. They even went to some Can-Am tournaments and earned an international reputation. 
They always asked me to play and I always said no thanks. I didn't want to go to work with a black eye or broken nose.
They always asked me to play and I always said no thanks. I didn't want to go to work with a black eye or broken nose.
I wonder how many 18-year-old kids are sitting in the deserts of Afgahanistan or Iraq with weapons in their hands wondering if they're ever gonna make it home? How accountable and adult are they...or do they have to be? Should one so young have such responsibility?? Playing a game for millions of dollars is a priveledge .... maybe if he traded places with one of his military peers...he may have a different perspective....
J23
J23
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
So, how about Lebron James...?
Whoo, he's really taking a beating today.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Last night in FSL two teams cleared their benches, I heard punches were thrown but not sure the details. I am sure there was trash talk.
I was listening to this game on the Internet as my son was in the game but was not involved in the skirmish - thankfully. Batter was hit by a pitch and instead of taking his base as normally every "sane" player does, he goes Juan Marichel. He charges the pitcher and tosses that bat right at him and obviously could have killed him. Our catcher, to his credit, tackled the guy and both benches emptied. I've got to believe that since Delmon Young got 50 games for throwing a bat at an umpire, that this guy is also going to get 50 games at least. No place in the game for that kind of stuff.
http://charlotte.stonecrabs.mi...&fext=.jsp&sid=t2730
Marichal and Campaneris got virtual slaps on the hand for their "batwork". I would have to look it up but I think Marichal only got like ten days plus a hefty fine. Campaneris got even less for flinging his bat at pitcher LaGrow.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The word in MiLB umpiring circles, if anyone cares, is that Bryce is a "very talented, classless punk" who will, without a doubt make his mark in the majors.
And what do the MLB players say about Joe West: not talented, classless punk
"At least Bryce is an american born player, not some cheap foreign player that MLB imported".
I am trying to figure this statement out.
I am trying to figure this statement out.