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I'm all for it.
This would help all in the recruiting process for pro ball. Pitchers hitters and scouts.
Here we go. Lets have some pencil pushing, baby kissing, 2-faced politicians, who understand voting demographics, but know shet about baseball start writing the rules. I'll bet CA has more pressing issues to deal with, but they have no baulls to follow through with real solutions to problems facing the State as a whole, instead they find an issue that's pulling at the heartstrings but minuscule in comparison to other more pressing issues.
It looks like Arnold has a legislative "group hug" started
While I'm all for finding a safer solution, government intervention and control based on "an incident" makes me want to gag.
btw- JMO
It looks like Arnold has a legislative "group hug" started
While I'm all for finding a safer solution, government intervention and control based on "an incident" makes me want to gag.
btw- JMO
Nice pic! 
Since our state government can't do anything else, might as well tackle this one.
I will likely write a letter to my rep supporting the idea. Hopefully they won't spend a ton of time on it. But I do think if it passes, a 2-year moratorium is about right. California is big enough and baseball-rich enough that the bat companies will have to come up with the data to show their product 'performs like wood' as they've stated so many times. It might(?) finally be the impetus to get the right study done, the bats tuned correctly and to put it all to rest once and for all.
Kind of a carrot with a 2-year stick on the behind.
OK...now lets see what 1baseballdad has to say.
Since our state government can't do anything else, might as well tackle this one.
I will likely write a letter to my rep supporting the idea. Hopefully they won't spend a ton of time on it. But I do think if it passes, a 2-year moratorium is about right. California is big enough and baseball-rich enough that the bat companies will have to come up with the data to show their product 'performs like wood' as they've stated so many times. It might(?) finally be the impetus to get the right study done, the bats tuned correctly and to put it all to rest once and for all.
Kind of a carrot with a 2-year stick on the behind.
OK...now lets see what 1baseballdad has to say.
rz1: Your brain is frozen over from living in Madison too long. Take up hookey.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Since our state government can't do anything else, might as well tackle this one.
It surprises me that you will jump in bed with the devil
I will likely write a letter to my rep supporting the idea. Hopefully they won't spend a ton of time on it.
OH, they won't spend any quality time on it because it's not about getting it right, its about getting the vote. Again I'm surprised you are jumping in their man purse
It might(?) finally be the impetus to get the right study done, the bats tuned correctly and to put it all to rest once and for all.
IMO, the wheel is rolling down hill with the recent incident and the only thing the government needs to do is make a statement that "it's time to work this out" then back away and let the makers, users, and experts figure it out. IMO, As soon as the gov't finds a little opening they will start pushing open more private doors. JB if you don't watch it we'll soon find you as the Pivot-man in that group hug
quote:BOF quote:
rz1: Your brain is frozen over from living in Madison too long. Take up hookey.
Better froze than fried
Too much conspiracy stuff in your post. I'm with you on philosophy of government...but I'm not a 'one-size-fits-all' guy either and the "little" guy here is you and me (and not the bat makers)...so lets force their hand and get the problem fixed.
Same rhetoric from them for 20+ years. Time to own up and if the governing bodies won't do it, then I have no problem with a 2-year ban to get it right.
Same rhetoric from them for 20+ years. Time to own up and if the governing bodies won't do it, then I have no problem with a 2-year ban to get it right.
Sometimes you have to jump outside the box in order to make a point. My point....Baseball should regulate baseball and politicians should stick with issues that concern their constituency as a whole and not jump on bandwagons because of the vote potential.quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Too much conspiracy stuff in your post.
I'll bet 90% of the legislature thinks that bat ratings relate to how pretty they are. At least both sides of the bat issue have worked hard in making their points. Regardless of what side you're on you have to respect the time wood advocates have stated their point and how the bat industry has provided the PUBLIC what it wanted, and still asks for all these years. The government should stick with issues they are familiar with like official Glee Club standards and let the baseball take care of baseball.
quote:OK...now lets see what 1baseballdad has to say.
All I'm going to say is this...
You are going to get so much more than you ever bargained for when you support this kind of stuff. Honestly, I am not even going to have to say I told you so when it happens...and it will since the types of injuries that triggered this will continue to happen.
Hey, I tried.
Welcome back!
My youngest son has another season of HS baseball left. I'll do my best to help him enjoy a season where he faces wood on the mound and plays the real game of baseball and uses wood at the plate! Would be refreshing to see a politician finally listen to his/her constituent(s)!
My youngest son has another season of HS baseball left. I'll do my best to help him enjoy a season where he faces wood on the mound and plays the real game of baseball and uses wood at the plate! Would be refreshing to see a politician finally listen to his/her constituent(s)!
Oh well, for a lot of California high school players, this won't be that big of a deal, as the better summer leagues are wood only anyway. Connie Mack and Don Mattingly leagues have gone to wood only on a nationwide basis. All our older guys swing in the summer is wood, and I don't think it is the armageddon that some others are expecting.
Hey, pitchers will learn to pitch inside more effectively, and we'll figure out who the real hitters are for a change.
Hey, pitchers will learn to pitch inside more effectively, and we'll figure out who the real hitters are for a change.
quote:Hey, pitchers will learn to pitch inside more effectively, and we'll figure out who the real hitters are for a change
Yup!
I have mixed feelings on this issue. My son is a pitcher and has had a few line drives this year hit off his shin. Anytime a line-drive is sent through the box your heart skips a beat. Lately, I've noticed more broken/shattered bats in the Big Leagues going back to the pitcher, or an infielder playing in...that's pretty scary too!
A decent wood bat cost about $80-$110 dollars, that's compared to a decent aluminum/metal bat at $300-$400. My son broke 2 wood bats in one game, three the entire tournament at last year's JO's in Arizona. He has one more year of high school remaining. I can't imagine how many bats he'll go through this summer, and in the high school season if this moratorium is implemented?
With that said, I'm sure that Gunnar Sandberg's Family, and other's that have gone through similar circumstances are eager to see this moratorium implemented...we'll see what happens?
A decent wood bat cost about $80-$110 dollars, that's compared to a decent aluminum/metal bat at $300-$400. My son broke 2 wood bats in one game, three the entire tournament at last year's JO's in Arizona. He has one more year of high school remaining. I can't imagine how many bats he'll go through this summer, and in the high school season if this moratorium is implemented?
With that said, I'm sure that Gunnar Sandberg's Family, and other's that have gone through similar circumstances are eager to see this moratorium implemented...we'll see what happens?
My point....Baseball should regulate baseball and politicians should stick with issues that concern their constituency as a whole and not jump on bandwagons because of the vote potential.
rz1 I am not picking a fight, but if we left
baseball to regulate themselves would we still
be wondering who is on steroids?
rz1 I am not picking a fight, but if we left
baseball to regulate themselves would we still
be wondering who is on steroids?
I don't think that switching to wood will prevent injuries.
That said, I did fill out a survey for NFHS and one of the questions was about switching to wood. On the survey I said I would be in favor of that.
That said, I did fill out a survey for NFHS and one of the questions was about switching to wood. On the survey I said I would be in favor of that.
quote:Originally posted by bsbl247:
A decent wood bat cost about $80-$110 dollars, that's compared to a decent aluminum/metal bat at $300-$400. My son broke 2 wood bats in one game, three the entire tournament at last year's JO's in Arizona. He has one more year of high school remaining. I can't imagine how many bats he'll go through this summer, and in the high school season if this moratorium is implemented?
baum bat $150, Demarini $125 - both won't break.
You can get a set of 5 decent bats for $50-$75.
Rz1:
I don't get you. We live in a democracy ..D E M O C R A C Y...
This means WE elect officials to represent US to make laws that WE the public want enacted. There is debate and then a vote. If WE in California decide that this is what WE want for our kids. What is the problem? Sounds like a 2 year moratorium is a pretty good approach to me.
For those of us in California I suggest that if you are for it, write your legislator and if against it do the same thing.
I don't get you. We live in a democracy ..D E M O C R A C Y...
This means WE elect officials to represent US to make laws that WE the public want enacted. There is debate and then a vote. If WE in California decide that this is what WE want for our kids. What is the problem? Sounds like a 2 year moratorium is a pretty good approach to me.
For those of us in California I suggest that if you are for it, write your legislator and if against it do the same thing.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:quote:Originally posted by bsbl247:
A decent wood bat cost about $80-$110 dollars, that's compared to a decent aluminum/metal bat at $300-$400. My son broke 2 wood bats in one game, three the entire tournament at last year's JO's in Arizona. He has one more year of high school remaining. I can't imagine how many bats he'll go through this summer, and in the high school season if this moratorium is implemented?
baum bat $150, Demarini $125 - both won't break.
You can get a set of 5 decent bats for $50-$75.
My son who is now 28 and played some pro ball uses a baum bat in his men's league in Arizona. It has stood up to 3 plus years of year round use by him and a couple of the guys on the team. The composite wood bats are a definite alternative to metal both from a price and durability standpoint.
Seems to me the primary opponents of moving away from the metal standard are those that want to buy performance and those that sell it.
Lets see if I have this right..........
Parents of pitchers want to eliminate metal all together regardless of future exit speed limits, base their displeasure on exit testing, but can not verify the actual incident ratios between wood and metal.
Parents of hitters are concerned because of the cost of wood bats breaking, and that the price will be artificially inflated because of the supply & demand concept.
Parents of pitchers say you can buy a wood bat for $50, may not be the best bat, but it is a bat, and it's cheap. BTW- didn't you get the memo...we're trying to lower Jr's era.
Meanwhile at a HS game pitting to very average teams
Coach- Infield on the grass......Outfield...way in....MORE...MORE
Fan #1- He must be expecting a play at the plate.
Fan #2- No, these kids are forced to use wood now and couldn't hit a superball hard.
Parents of pitchers want to eliminate metal all together regardless of future exit speed limits, base their displeasure on exit testing, but can not verify the actual incident ratios between wood and metal.
Parents of hitters are concerned because of the cost of wood bats breaking, and that the price will be artificially inflated because of the supply & demand concept.
Parents of pitchers say you can buy a wood bat for $50, may not be the best bat, but it is a bat, and it's cheap. BTW- didn't you get the memo...we're trying to lower Jr's era.
Meanwhile at a HS game pitting to very average teams
Coach- Infield on the grass......Outfield...way in....MORE...MORE
Fan #1- He must be expecting a play at the plate.
Fan #2- No, these kids are forced to use wood now and couldn't hit a superball hard.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Rz1:
I don't get you. We live in a democracy ..D E M O C R A C Y...
This means WE elect officials to represent US to make laws that WE the public want enacted. There is debate and then a vote. If WE in California decide that this is what WE want for our kids. What is the problem? Sounds like a 2 year moratorium is a pretty good approach to me.
For those of us in California I suggest that if you are for it, write your legislator and if against it do the same thing.
I get it now, I'm such an idiot
We live in a democracy where your opinion counts and mine ain't worth shet. D E M O C R A C Y
Do you actually think the CA legislature would give this a minute of time without the Gunner incident publicity.
How many accidents/deaths were caused by cell phone use while driving before your elected official took notice, or have they? This is a bunch of bs where a group that has a very good argument on it's own merit, has a populous push on National level right now for bat reform and are trying to involve a group of elected officials who know nothing on the topic but see it a political feather in their hat for taking on the business sector.
BTW- I'm a WOOD guy......at certain levels
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
Here we go. Lets have some pencil pushing, baby kissing, 2-faced politicians, who understand voting demographics, but know shet about baseball start writing the rules. I'll bet CA has more pressing issues to deal with, but they have no baulls to follow through with real solutions to problems facing the State as a whole, instead they find an issue that's pulling at the heartstrings but minuscule in comparison to other more pressing issues.
Of course your opinion matters, just not here in California...we don't care what you do in Wisconsin….now go away and let California (again) take some leadership in this issue.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
Of course your opinion matters, just not here in California...we don't care what you do in Wisconsin….now go away and let California (again) take some leadership in this issue.
If you don't want the National opinion you might want to keep the thread in the CA forum. Sorry about the brashness, it's a WI thing, born with an opinion and raised to share and argue it.
As far a WI/CA thing. If you want CA to take the reins you're going to need a lot of help from States that have success in reform
and not just a personal staff who tell them which side they photograph well from Heck we did a pretty good job teaching you the dairy business, maybe we can work on State government next.
Alright, if you want national opinions, SC votes with California.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
If you don't want the National opinion you might want to keep the post in the CA forum. Sorry about the brashness, it's a WI thing, born with an opinion and raised to share and argue it.
As far a WI/CA thing. If you want CA to take the reins you're going to need a lot of help from States that have success in reform
.
Heck we did a pretty good job teaching you the dairy business, maybe we can work on State government next.
In my lowly opinion...
While I'm not saying I don't agree...
I AM saying that being okay with this, as in government making more regulations and taking more control over our daily lives, is a VERY slippery slope.
It's the same thing if you agreed with a public smoking ban because you are not a smoker, or you don't like cigarette smoke. Just because you agree with the government is mandating NOW, doesn't mean you will agree with the next one. It just leads to more and more control by Big Brother, and less and less responsibility for the individual.
From the PURELY baseball side of things:
I would think that some kids (the vast majority of these would end their 'career' at the HS level anyway) would suffer as hitters from having to use wood, and some of these might not play HS ball because of the switch.
On the other hand:
I think that the use of wood in HS would make some pitchers look better than they really are.
Personally I think College baseball would be the place to use wood. That's just a personal opinion. I personally would enjoy that switch. And I think it would help the pro scouts do their job as well.
But you know what they say, opinions are like ********s...
While I'm not saying I don't agree...
I AM saying that being okay with this, as in government making more regulations and taking more control over our daily lives, is a VERY slippery slope.
It's the same thing if you agreed with a public smoking ban because you are not a smoker, or you don't like cigarette smoke. Just because you agree with the government is mandating NOW, doesn't mean you will agree with the next one. It just leads to more and more control by Big Brother, and less and less responsibility for the individual.
From the PURELY baseball side of things:
I would think that some kids (the vast majority of these would end their 'career' at the HS level anyway) would suffer as hitters from having to use wood, and some of these might not play HS ball because of the switch.
On the other hand:
I think that the use of wood in HS would make some pitchers look better than they really are.
Personally I think College baseball would be the place to use wood. That's just a personal opinion. I personally would enjoy that switch. And I think it would help the pro scouts do their job as well.
But you know what they say, opinions are like ********s...
quote:Do you actually think the CA legislature would give this a minute of time without the Gunner incident publicity.
No, I don't frankly. However, I don't care what their motivations currently are as that is irrelevant imho. IMO, this law will make the game safer without affecting the integrity of the game. I am willing to allow that feeling to go to a vote since we live in a democracy. If the science guys and lobbyists can defeat this intuition (wood is safer than metal) then so be it.
Wood bats, democracy, state’s rights…ah, Americana!
Now lets talk a little reality. Through two sons’ JrHS-HS-college/summer (over 10 years) I have never…never heard a kid on the summer circuit complain about using a wood bat. Never. I’ve heard plenty of them excited about it.
So who do I hear complaining about wood bats? Parents.
So if you are right rz1, and its all about pandering to votes then they’re pandering to the kids who have no vote. Their parents will surely revolt and throw them out!
But lets be really realistic…virtually no one will base their vote on how their rep addresses this one…if anything, given California’s budget woes, a politician may in fact lose votes for spending his/her time on this. Frankly, I don’t see your point as accurate as it relates to vote pandering.
You and I almost surely have the same idea about the role of government in general. But I don’t apply a single philosophy to every single situation. I realize that the little guy needs representation sometimes and that is where its ok by me if a local, state or federal government propels change for the better. (Now remember, you said you’re for wood! ).
Most of us griped when we had to buckle up. Virtually none of us complain now…in fact we make sure our kids buckle up before we move the car one inch. There’s no statistical proof that I know of that text-messaging is dangerous while we drive…but common sense tells us otherwise and we now have laws about it in a few states.
Physics clearly tells us (as well as common sense) that today’s metal bats deliver more exit speed and more energy. And while banning them will not stop injuries, it will reduce the risk of serious injury.
I was talking with a friend recently. He is a very successful businessman whose company has risen from small business to international giant…his company makes an athletic product (not bats and not a competitor to bats or baseball equipment…different sport) that we are all familiar with. Many on here undoubtedly own his company’s products. His son is also a very good baseball player…he will play in college somewhere. His son is a hitter. He told me that he is quite familiar with the business of bats, hockey sticks, etc…including sales, profit margins and marketing strategies. He also told me that the profits are so huge on the metal bats that there is no way the bat companies will let this go down easily. They will be hurt too badly.
Classic case of an imbalance in resources (big bat company versus HS baseball player) to arrive at the best solution? Maybe.
He is also, despite being the parent of a very good hitter, all for a switch to wood. He knows its better for the game, better for his son…and he knows whats behind the curtain on metal bats.
A 2-year moratorium is nothing to be afraid of. It will force the studies (real ones) to be undertaken and completed. It will force the metal bats to finally conform to truly perform like wood. It will probably result in lower scoring and closer baseball games…giving the “little schools” a chance every once in a while to beat the big boys. And yes, it will cause a little drop in ‘little Johnny’s’ batting average and extra base hit totals.
Me? I'm all for it.
Now lets talk a little reality. Through two sons’ JrHS-HS-college/summer (over 10 years) I have never…never heard a kid on the summer circuit complain about using a wood bat. Never. I’ve heard plenty of them excited about it.
So who do I hear complaining about wood bats? Parents.
So if you are right rz1, and its all about pandering to votes then they’re pandering to the kids who have no vote. Their parents will surely revolt and throw them out!
But lets be really realistic…virtually no one will base their vote on how their rep addresses this one…if anything, given California’s budget woes, a politician may in fact lose votes for spending his/her time on this. Frankly, I don’t see your point as accurate as it relates to vote pandering.
You and I almost surely have the same idea about the role of government in general. But I don’t apply a single philosophy to every single situation. I realize that the little guy needs representation sometimes and that is where its ok by me if a local, state or federal government propels change for the better. (Now remember, you said you’re for wood!
).Most of us griped when we had to buckle up. Virtually none of us complain now…in fact we make sure our kids buckle up before we move the car one inch. There’s no statistical proof that I know of that text-messaging is dangerous while we drive…but common sense tells us otherwise and we now have laws about it in a few states.
Physics clearly tells us (as well as common sense) that today’s metal bats deliver more exit speed and more energy. And while banning them will not stop injuries, it will reduce the risk of serious injury.
I was talking with a friend recently. He is a very successful businessman whose company has risen from small business to international giant…his company makes an athletic product (not bats and not a competitor to bats or baseball equipment…different sport) that we are all familiar with. Many on here undoubtedly own his company’s products. His son is also a very good baseball player…he will play in college somewhere. His son is a hitter. He told me that he is quite familiar with the business of bats, hockey sticks, etc…including sales, profit margins and marketing strategies. He also told me that the profits are so huge on the metal bats that there is no way the bat companies will let this go down easily. They will be hurt too badly.
Classic case of an imbalance in resources (big bat company versus HS baseball player) to arrive at the best solution? Maybe.
He is also, despite being the parent of a very good hitter, all for a switch to wood. He knows its better for the game, better for his son…and he knows whats behind the curtain on metal bats.
A 2-year moratorium is nothing to be afraid of. It will force the studies (real ones) to be undertaken and completed. It will force the metal bats to finally conform to truly perform like wood. It will probably result in lower scoring and closer baseball games…giving the “little schools” a chance every once in a while to beat the big boys. And yes, it will cause a little drop in ‘little Johnny’s’ batting average and extra base hit totals.
Me? I'm all for it.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
...I don't care what their motivations currently are as that is irrelevant imho.
CD where is this passion when cell phone use while driving is causing deaths Nation wide?
It sounds to me instead of putting up a legit fight, you would rather hide behind uneducated politicians hoping they can sneak through your opinion without investigating what the populous wants. Before you know it girls softball will be wood, no metal spikes, face masks will be part of the uniform, and games will be completely screened in depending what incident hits the right nerve at the time. As soon as a precedent is set it opens the doors for government to use it as the litmus test that allows them to set standards for any situation that tugs at the heart at that moment in time. Next time you may find yourself on the stinky end of the stick crying government interference when you actually set the tone to begin with.
quote:As soon as a precedent is set it opens the doors for government to use it as the litmus test that allows them to set standards for any situation that tugs at the heart at that moment in time.
I am sensitive to the slippery slope arguments. IMO, the public is willing to live with reasonable risk. I believe the only other change you might see safety-wise might be pitchers wearing helmets. Most don't seem to support that notion so I don't think it will go beyond wood bats. Since we live in a free society, I think debate on both sides of this issue is healthy.
Too much logic here JB, please let us elite parents 
just froth at the mouth some more...
I think this one has a chance to pass since there is some momentum building and it sounds like a logical approach.
Again I would encourage those in California to write their representatives on the bill. (AB7)
Thanks RZ I will post something in the CA forum about it.
I think this one has a chance to pass since there is some momentum building and it sounds like a logical approach.
Again I would encourage those in California to write their representatives on the bill. (AB7)
Thanks RZ I will post something in the CA forum about it.
BOF - please continue to post here in this forum. This is a national issue and is worthy of all the attention it has gotten here.
Just posted in the California forum, copied here just in case one of my fellow nut cases don't get there.
For those interested there is a bill in the California legislature that will place a 2 year moratorium on metal bats. See link below for information. (thanks Krak)
http://www.google.com/hostedne...DrBojPduBcAD9FH389O0
If you are interested in seeing this move forward I would encourage you to send an email to both of your representatives. They can be found here:
http://www.legislature.ca.gov/
For those interested there is a bill in the California legislature that will place a 2 year moratorium on metal bats. See link below for information. (thanks Krak)
http://www.google.com/hostedne...DrBojPduBcAD9FH389O0
If you are interested in seeing this move forward I would encourage you to send an email to both of your representatives. They can be found here:
http://www.legislature.ca.gov/
If this is what Californians want to do, by all means do it. Other States will be watching, and we'll see how it goes. I applaud them for trying something that may be safer for our youth. If it determined to be safer & less expensive, I expect a many states will adopt it. If it is determined only to be safer, I expect some states will adopt it.
It's like this..The public school system is government sponsored so in the case of HS baseball, they have every right to set policy on banning metal bats.
All organizations should be doing this on their own and metal bats should've been long banned.
Now do we like government telling us ow to run our lives?. Of course not but there are times you need laws on the books when everybody from all the baseball organizations are just sitting on their hands and making like everything's honky dory and metal bats are ok.
Look at college baseball..Why in the world are they using metal bats? Why don't they ban them? Because they're more concerned about the loot than safety. .
Since vey little is being done about banning metal, government needs force the issue and ban metal at all levels and force all organizations go back to wood.
All organizations should be doing this on their own and metal bats should've been long banned.
Now do we like government telling us ow to run our lives?. Of course not but there are times you need laws on the books when everybody from all the baseball organizations are just sitting on their hands and making like everything's honky dory and metal bats are ok.
Look at college baseball..Why in the world are they using metal bats? Why don't they ban them? Because they're more concerned about the loot than safety. .
Since vey little is being done about banning metal, government needs force the issue and ban metal at all levels and force all organizations go back to wood.
I agree with rz1 in that we need less instances of the government stepping into areas and legislating needlessly (although I could do with a little less "brashness"). And, I appreciate him pointing out the fact that this situation is a good example of where they need to keep out. The article mentions that non-governmental sanctioning bodies have already taken steps to address the issue.
That being said, I personally support changing to all wood bats.
Yes we live in a democracy, but if we don't stand up against our government officials using their elected positions for tyranical purposes, and educate our kids that these actions are abusive, and vote against the officials that abuse their positions, we'll find ourselves without the freedoms we should rightfully hold.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power we give up to the government, the more corrupt it will become.
WAG!
That being said, I personally support changing to all wood bats.
Yes we live in a democracy, but if we don't stand up against our government officials using their elected positions for tyranical purposes, and educate our kids that these actions are abusive, and vote against the officials that abuse their positions, we'll find ourselves without the freedoms we should rightfully hold.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power we give up to the government, the more corrupt it will become.
WAG!
I'm by no means arguing that metal poses a more potential danger, all I'm saying is, IMHO, the average LL and HS kid has more fun knowing he can hit the gap with a good swing using a metal bat, and fun is what baseball is really about. Exit speed is a wonderful benchmark but it is also relevant to bat speed. Heck a professional hitter will have a better chance to take the head off of most HS pitchers using wood proving that it is not the weapon, rather who is initiating the initial speed. The PGA outlawed square grooves on the irons of it's elite players because it gave them an advantage, but manufacturers still make those clubs for the novice. I know there is not a safety issue involved so don't rip me a new one here. But, it does show that change can be done from within.
Who actually think a moratorium will lead to better testing, All it does is hide the issue until it's forgotten ans easily passed. Do you actually think that any governmental funding will be applied to testing that affects so few.
JB- Why is there such a high profits for metal bats...could it be demand from the public whose kids are not at the elite level? Or do we just tell them to deal with it. Banning should be done by organizations who feel that it is the best direction for that group not a governmental blanket approach lead by the Legislative Glee club.
BOF- Glad my WI wisdom can help out my CA buddies
Who actually think a moratorium will lead to better testing, All it does is hide the issue until it's forgotten ans easily passed. Do you actually think that any governmental funding will be applied to testing that affects so few.
JB- Why is there such a high profits for metal bats...could it be demand from the public whose kids are not at the elite level? Or do we just tell them to deal with it. Banning should be done by organizations who feel that it is the best direction for that group not a governmental blanket approach lead by the Legislative Glee club.
BOF- Glad my WI wisdom can help out my CA buddies
quote:JB- Why is there such a high profits for metal bats?
Did you also mean to include 'margins?' Good question. I think I'll ask him tonight when I expect to see him.
The user of the bat does indeed have a lot to do with bat speed. But it is not debatable which is easier to swing faster for the same hitter. Take a pole, put a weight at the end and swing it as fast as you can. Now put the weight closer to your hands and swing it again as fast as you can. Which is faster?
Sent my letter off just now, advocating passage of such a ban.
While I no longer have a son playing high school baseball, there is no question in my mind that the capabilities of metal bats have grown over the years until they are no longer comparable to wooden bats. While such a ban will not eliminate risk to the pitcher, it will reduce such risk in my mind.
The ban is a temporary measure and will allow for the matter to be studied in more detail. For those who have advocated better data on the subject, if all CA games were played with wood while most of the rest of the country plays with either BBCOR or BESR bats, I would think we would have a much better handle on the actual impact on both safety as well as on the rest of the game. Let's use California as a test case and see what happens.
While I no longer have a son playing high school baseball, there is no question in my mind that the capabilities of metal bats have grown over the years until they are no longer comparable to wooden bats. While such a ban will not eliminate risk to the pitcher, it will reduce such risk in my mind.
The ban is a temporary measure and will allow for the matter to be studied in more detail. For those who have advocated better data on the subject, if all CA games were played with wood while most of the rest of the country plays with either BBCOR or BESR bats, I would think we would have a much better handle on the actual impact on both safety as well as on the rest of the game. Let's use California as a test case and see what happens.
quote:Originally posted by 08Dad:
The ban is a temporary measure and will allow for the matter to be studied in more detail. For those who have advocated better data on the subject, if all CA games were played with wood while most of the rest of the country plays with either BBCOR or BESR bats, I would think we would have a much better handle on the actual impact on both safety as well as on the rest of the game. Let's use California as a test case and see what happens.
Precisely. California is the #1 state for baseball in America. We can do a per capita analysis to determine the number of injuries per the number of players. Compare the California per capita injury numbers to the national per capita injury numbers over the next two years and we'll have our data.
On one hand some argue that hitting is better with metal, lets keep using them. The pitchers will get hurt with wood as well anyway, so let's keep using metal. We don't want government regulating baseball at the high school level. Let baseball decide what is best for itself. In one instance a poster takes a "swing" at parents of pitchers with this, "Parents of pitchers say you can buy a wood bat for $50, may not be the best bat, but it is a bat, and it's cheap. BTW- didn't you get the memo...we're trying to lower Jr's era."
Tell me what it is you are trying to do with the metal bat? Maybe make your batting average better? Why do you need metal bats to make your batting average better, if even one kid is saved from being hurt by a metal batted ball? You watch your own son get hit with a ball that he said he could not see coming back off the bat and you have a completely different perspective. Could it happen with wood? Yes it can, and the chances are REDUCED with wood simply because it is harder to hit the sweat spot with wood.
On the other hand, most of us like wood over metal, and BELIEVE it is safer and the way the game was meant to be played. Also, regardless of the science and statistics of metal vs wood, most of us believe that it is harder to hit the sweat spot with wood than with metal. You have to be a better hitter to hit well with wood. At least that seems to be the biggest argument for staying with metal; it will keep little johnny in the game longer because he can't hit as well with wood.
I believe in this instance that the government should step in to initiate change in order to offset the advertising and other money manufacturers’ pump into supporting metal bats. I (whether "I" is a parent, coach, or player) have no chance of battling that kind of $$ to try to force an issue like changing to wood bats. If it is going to change it will most likely be on the heels of some event like what happened to the Sandburg's. You have to get emotional to force or make change! Why do we have to wait for more kids to be taken out before we act?
Tell me what it is you are trying to do with the metal bat? Maybe make your batting average better? Why do you need metal bats to make your batting average better, if even one kid is saved from being hurt by a metal batted ball? You watch your own son get hit with a ball that he said he could not see coming back off the bat and you have a completely different perspective. Could it happen with wood? Yes it can, and the chances are REDUCED with wood simply because it is harder to hit the sweat spot with wood.
On the other hand, most of us like wood over metal, and BELIEVE it is safer and the way the game was meant to be played. Also, regardless of the science and statistics of metal vs wood, most of us believe that it is harder to hit the sweat spot with wood than with metal. You have to be a better hitter to hit well with wood. At least that seems to be the biggest argument for staying with metal; it will keep little johnny in the game longer because he can't hit as well with wood.
I believe in this instance that the government should step in to initiate change in order to offset the advertising and other money manufacturers’ pump into supporting metal bats. I (whether "I" is a parent, coach, or player) have no chance of battling that kind of $$ to try to force an issue like changing to wood bats. If it is going to change it will most likely be on the heels of some event like what happened to the Sandburg's. You have to get emotional to force or make change! Why do we have to wait for more kids to be taken out before we act?