Can Dad Call the Coach?

quote:

I have heard over and over that parents making contacts is a recipe for disaster.

You never heard me say that. My advice is different than generally offered here. I wanted to hear from the coach myself what their interest was and what the "score" actually was before either my son or I invested any time or money pursuing them. I usually made first contact with them to determine the lay of the land. When they are interested in your son, they will call and ask to speak to him directly. I am sure your son will manage to take their calls and do well answering the questions when asked from the coach!

Look, coaches are just like you and me. They love to talk baseball with reasonable people. They understand when parents are calling that it is reasonable for them to find out if there is genuine interest there before they start spending money sending them to visits or camps or what not. What they don't want to hear is how great your kid is. All parents think highly of their own kids. Be honest with them that you would like to know if they have any interest and what it would take to generate any. If they ask about his performance, let them know as you did here - in a reasonable and objective way. One piece of information is find out if there are any past players your son has competed against that the coach you are speaking to may have personal experience with either on his own team or in his conference. For instance, if your son dominated the conference pitcher of the year from last year, that might be useful information for the coach to be made aware of.

Feel free to pm me if you would like to conduct further conversation offline.

As a 2010, your son needs to become more agressive in his recruiting, with your help of course.

I agree with CD. I'll tell you something that a HC told me once, he takes all phone calls, answers all emails, but I got the impression he doesn't like parents to tell him how good their players are, rather that they are very interested in the program and attending the school. Never tell a coach how many schools are calling your son, that's a no no, IMO.

I realize that for some players it is very difficult to make those phone calls, and very difficult for players to read vibes, so, perhaps at this time it would be in his best interest for you to make that phone call, just be very careful on what you say and how you approach the coach.

Do not let your son think that you will do all the work, he needs to take the responsibility to get to know the coach, nothing worse than leting mom or dad do all the work and showing up not ever developing a relationship with who you are going to play for.

JMO.

If a parent calls a coach he/she should treat it like talking with a lawyer---just answer the questions in a short manner---only give him the info that he asks for--nothing more --nothing less ---and be truthful

A friend and his wife were doing all the work for their son. Then the dad was complaining the son won't work out on his own. He'll only practice with the team. I asked the dad if he thought his son really wanted it. The dad stopped doing the work. Now his wife is doing it all. And they've spent a ton of money on advisors, consultants and recruiting services for a kid who will be a D3 player. I think the parents want it for the kid. The kid doesn't care unless it's going to be easy.

I asked my son what his next goal in baseball was. When he answered, "I want to play D1", I said fine, I'm going to hold you to that and did.

Sometimes it meant asking, "When are you going to call the coach at XYZ?....That's not good enough, I want a day this week that you are going to call him."

Accountability is a rough lesson sometimes, but a worthwhile one.

Cleveland Dad - You have a PM (I think - I'm new to this site)

MT - I got your message and responded. You'll see a New Message tab highlighted at the top of the forum to the right of the other tabs. Click on that to view your pm. You can also reply to your pm the same way you reply in the forums. No need to post here that you replied as I'll be notified of any response. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Accountability is a rough lesson sometimes, but a worthwhile one.

I agree but it does not have to be a zero sum game i.e., you do everything or you will fail at your goal. Let me explain...

I held my son accountable by asking him to be the best athlete and baseball player he could be. "He" had to expend the blood, sweat, and tears to achieve that. The recruiting part "we" handled as a team. He had no problem answering the phone when coaches called. On the other hand, I had no problem scoping things out, helping generate a recruiting plan, and facilitating that the plan was executed. At the end of the day, it was his talent and the exposure he got that got him recruited. Nothing I could have said on the phone could have changed that. If he would have been unwilling to do the work however, I would have been unwilling to do what I did. He indeed was accountable according to "my" definition and that is all that matters imho.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
Accountability is a rough lesson sometimes, but a worthwhile one.

I believe that parents must help in being part of the process, a lot depends on your player as to which parts. Parents have a right to the process, after all, they will be paying for school. Your input is important.

And everyone's idea of accountability is different.

We helped organize, made a model for answering questionaires, but contacts were up to him. And yes we too asked or reminded when are you going to make that phone call. Every situation is different, he got lots of calls, yes we spoke briefly to coaches when they called at first for son's cell number, (unless they called to introduce themselves to us) but it was always his responsibility to return calls, and sort out where he was interested in going, with our guidance. He hated returning phone calls to coaches (and doing the paperwork), but did a good job when he did, even being nervous, coaches know and understand that. At the time of recruiting, son was playing baseball, working a job and in the fall there was school as well. He managed to do ok for himself with communicating when he had to.

I think the recruiting process helped him to understand a lot about others and himself, and helped in the maturing process and I think that lesson has value in itself. The only time we really stepped in was consideration to go pro out of HS, as most HS parents do.

However, the original OP stated that his son is shy by nature, which is not uncommon, this sometimes leads players to not take care of their business and that is ok, but in the end, it is the players responsibility to be accountable. You might make a list of some things he can say to introduce himself, and do some role playing, to make him feel comfortable, but do know that coaches have done this hundreds of times, and they know what to say and how to ask questions better than our sons do.
Sometimes just a phone call will signal to the coach the player is interested, when he thought he wasn't.

There is a difference between being uncomfortable with a new situation and letting mom and dad do all of the work.

A very big part of finding the right fit is developing relationships, even if just over the phone, or by email, it is the player that ultimately ends up on the field, not the parents.

JMO.

quote:

I have heard over and over that parents making contacts is a recipe for disaster.

MTB,

You are correct in stating "I have heard over and over that parents making contact is a recipe for disaster".

I, like you, have read many a thread here and have heard it over and over as well. I'm not saying anyone here is back pedaling or talking out of both sides of their mouth, but you can go back and read MANY threads where it's stated under no circumstances should a parent get involved unless the sons health is at risk!

I was always on the other side of the fence.

don't call

It is about your son, not you. Help your son with an email, get the number for him, buy the stamp, but don't call. Go with him on the unofficial visit, sit there and listen to the coach, make discreet inquiries about the costs, compliment the coach on his beautiful field, but don't call.

It's not a "disaster" just poor form. Don't let him think you're a helicopter parent and let your son do some of his own growing up with your guidance.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Much appreciated.

I always thought the don't call route was about parents asking coaches about playing time, positions and other coaching decisions. I didn't think it was the same for recruiting.

quote:

Don't let him think you're a helicopter parent

brod - those kind of comments are not appreciated and unhelpful to the current discussion imho. Your opinion of "do not call" is a completely valid one to hold. To throw in a gratuitous cheap-shot was uncalled for.

I could have waited until you posted your "do not call" opinion and then followed that up with parents who do not speak to the coach are morons. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a moron even though your opinion differs from mine.

It would not be a total disaster for you to call them. I would talk to my son and express to him the importance of him also calling the coaches and expressing his desire for them to see him. There is no reason he should not be able to at least send an email as well. When he does go on the visit the coaches are going to want to talk to him at some point and time. Make sure he understands its important for him to communicate with the coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
I always thought the don't call route was about parents asking coaches about playing time, positions and other coaching decisions. I didn't think it was the same for recruiting.

In my mind, you are correct.

I have had more than one D-1 coach tell me that "parents too often forget that it is the boy being recruited not the parents"

I'm with CD on this one. I called every college that my son was interested in or that showed interest in my son. Every coached called me as we went down the road communicating. Never had one coach have a problem with me talking to them. After all I am the final decision maker. Never negotiate with anyone but the decision maker.
The only thing they wanted from my son was whether he wanted to play for them. They all gave me their cell phone #s for him to call. They chatted for a few minutes and the coach asked if he would like to play at his school. My son only talked to the ones we liked after I had dealt with the coach.
One college I even enrolled him and had his student number before I told him about it. The coach wouldn't make an offer without him being enrolled. It was a possible backup if things didn't workout at our preferred schools.
I negotiate for a living and there is no way my son is doing that. He would never get the money I got for him.

TR, I agree that it is the boy being recruited and not the boy. However, it is my boy and my finances and I want to make sure both are handled accordingly. Just like parents, there are coaches who do not or will not have the kid's best interest at heart at the end of the day. Sometimes a little "maturity" aka..the parent can see through the muse and raise a red flag.

I admire any young 18yr old young man who can handle every aspect of recruiting on his own. Make no mistake about it. But just how many of these young men exist out here today? I know, I know, let the boy learn what it means to make his own decisions, choices, learn by mistakes, etc. But in today's times I know that I for one cannot go through a huge financial mistake, or even a small one. I'm just hanging on as it is.

I don't see any problems with a kid making initial contact and many contacts afterward but somewhere I think it is just prudent for the parent to get involved, IMO.

I believe that this is where a good Summer/HS/Travel coach comes in.
If he feels the player has talent, he could help to break the ice with recruitors to let them know a player is more then interested in there program.

EH

YGD

I feel the parent should get involved only when it comes to the $$$ aspect---before that the parent should stay out of it

Most coaches are going to want to talk to the parents. Especially once it gets down to crunch time. More than once my son was asked by the coaches to have me call them so we could discuss what they had just discussed so there was nothing lost in the translation of the conversation they had with my son.

I would be leery of coaches that did not want to communicate with the parents on some level. Just as a coach I would be leery of a player that would not communicate with me. The key is for the parents to not be over bearing in the process. Let your son build a relationship with the coaches and when important decisions are to be made be right there for your son to offer your advice and assistance.

And if you have questions dont be afraid to ask them. And make sure your son understands that he needs to communicate not only with the coaches but with you as well. This is too important of a decision to just leave it up to your kid. They are not in a posistion to do this alone. You do it as a team and you just make sure your on the same page.

Not disagreeing with you at all TR. Coaches want to deal with the player first when things are getting started. But when things get serious they are definitely going to want to hear from the parents.

Coach May

We are on the same page !!!

Sure Dads can call ---- Moms can call too!
At times it takes a mature adult on both ends of the line to keep the conversations focused. I remember a conversation my son was having with the recruiting coordinator of a college and the coach asked him a loaded question: "Have your parents saved enough money for your college education". My son replied: -- "You'll have to ask my dad that question" --- and handed me the phone. I could "hear" the egg on his face as he backpedaled away from the question.

I agree with CD and have talked to a number of coaches that recruited my son. I can see why some coaches don't want to talk to parents because parent are usually more adept at getting information, are better listeners and tend to get information that a player might miss. Keeps the coaches Honest". There is no real inherent problem with a parent talking with a coach however problems may occur when parents say the wrong things.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

There is no real inherent problem with a parent talking with a coach however problems may occur when parents say the wrong things.

Fungo

Fungo, I think ole chap that you may have hit the nail on the head! I do believe that THAT is exactly what many parents are looking for. Just exactly what are those "wrong" things...??

Sound off Ole Timers....

1. DON'T COMPLIMENT, BRAG, COMPARE, ENDORSE or SELL your son to the coach.

Geez, Cleveland Dad...

I didn't say "don't talk" I said don't call.

And I was not calling him a "helicopter parent" only sounding the warning gong which I thought was what he was asking.

I will concede that a discreet top negotiator type Dad like the ones on this thread could call a coach and not sound like a helicopter parent, but explaining that your son is too quiet to talk probably wouldn't be much of an introduction, would it?

I think we all know there are parents who want it more than their kids. For some high school Seniors, it will kick in quite late in the game, but it will eventually happen with patience and gentle nudging, as in "here's the phone."

quote:

we all know there are parents who want it more than their kids.

This is the the comment that under lies your view. I didn't want it at all. My son wasn't shy but I do agree that it would be unwise to say that was the reason for not talking to a coach. To me a kid that is afraid to talk to a coach would be a rare kid. What he going to do when he has to give a speech in class ?
I am surprised that talking to a coach is some sort of "Manning Up". The coaches that we wanted to talk to gave us their cells and my son called them when he could. Generally a very short talk with a simple yes I would be very happy at your program. I always made sure he boned up on the school in case he was asked about it. By the way I had trouble getting some coaches to stop talking about their BB program. As CD said most of them love talking BB.
If Dad can't do it have Mom do it.

One thing that you have to realize is how hard it can be to reach a coach. Mostly answering machines . I can remember playing phone tag all summer with one coach.

Sometimes we talk about apples and oranges. First contact/playing time conversations are not the same to me as converstations conducted between potential coach and parent.

I believe that first contact should always be student to coach. I know about shy kids and about kids who are reluctant to engage in this type of dialogue but it is an important first step for them to take. If the process is about them growing into young adults, isn't this a great way for them to start. Life is (sometimes) about making tough phone calls, promoting oneself, finding out where another person stands vis-a-vis a relationship. Students who tiptoe into this arena at 16/17 years old are learning a great life lesson. With my son I sometimes nagged, sometimes bit my tongue, and often saw him practicing his conversation with the coach days before he would finally pick up the phone. Sometimes those calls involved pain ("we decided to go with another lefty but you can come and walk on"). Sometimes they were the best call a high school senior could receive. ("just heard from admissions, Congratulations you are...)

The problem as I see it is that coaches often make the calls when its good news. Having to contact them usually means they don't have good news. Having to contact them to get on their radar screen is very tough. Once the dialogue began, almost every coach spent time talking to me about any of a number of issues. Those conversations usually occurred when I answered the phone and we chatted before putting son on.

My limited view of College Baseball suggests that there is still a good amount of machismo in the game. I don't think coaches would respond favorably if contact is initiated by a parent.

quote:

I don't think coaches would respond favorably if contact is initiated by a parent.

Couldn't disagree more. As a parent of a D1 grad with a very large scholarship, I can tell you my involvement was beneficial in all aspects. My son would be the 1st one to tell you that.
He easily attended interviews with Fortune 500 companies and scored very highly on all their aptitude, SAT type tests and psych tests. He got 3 job offers from the 3 companies . One company had 6 interviews before they chose their candidate for an intensive training program.
Talking to a BB coach is no big deal. I found it very enjoyable and learned a lot about the recruiting process through these coaches. The one college my son did a visit while in Vegas at a basketball tournament. That was the only coach he ever met. That coach called me regularly over a year or so. We talked for hours. I never had a coach in the 25 or so colleges we talked to every show a preference to talking to my son.

As I said I enrolled my son in a D11 and the coach never even talked to my son once. That college was the only one that saw my son pitch. A roving scout actually recommended him.

My comment was about the initial contact. If son is lucky enough to have contact initiated by coach and parents get involved in discussions, I think that is different than parents making first contact with the coach.

That is what I don't agree with. I made 1st contact in all cases . Never had a coach ask to talk to my son until he wanted to hear that he wanted to play there.
Once my son signed his NLI I never contacted the coach unless he contacted me.

I think that Coach May did an excellent job in stating what the parents role should be in the recruiting process.

quote:

was asked by the coaches to have me call them so we could discuss what they had just discussed so there was nothing lost in the translation of the conversation they had with my son.

I avoided this step. Both approaches are fine but don't say initial contact by a parent is wrong and precipitates a disaster. the question was Can a Dad contact a coach and the answer is yes he can and should .

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I think that Coach May did an excellent job in stating what the parents role should be in the recruiting process.

Yes he did BUT, it is not a one shoe fits all process. Others may feel more comfortable approaching it in a different way and the coach may be as well. There is no coach or player handbook written on how to proceed.

If you go back and read from my other posts, I said that every situation is different, and CM did not state that a parent should not ever contact a coach (or did I).

The recruiting process is much different than just calling a coach for playing time (FWIW that is always a no no), etc., parents should be involved especially when offers are on the table, however, JMO, that the main relationship established should always be between the player and the coach.

Double Eagle also makes good suggestions, there are manyy other ways that players can contact coaches by not calling first.

I also posted in my first post in regards to a coach's attitude about parents making the first contact, this coming from one of the top recruiting coaches in the country.

It is definitely not a "one shoe fits all" proposition. I would never tell a parent on this forum what they should or should not do. I will share my experience and allow others to do with that experience whatever they will.

I strongly believe that the recruiting process is a team effort with the final decision being made by the student. When we were heading out to visit schools in the Fall of Junior year, I made sure that the coach knew we were coming. My position was that my son should initiate that contact.

quote:

I don't think coaches would respond favorably if contact is initiated by a parent.

I took this at face value.
You say you have limited experience and I don't. Our approach was very effective both in cost and response.
Our goals were different than most but the results were based on a simple philosophy. All coaches want players that can play and who will stay eligible. I had a player who could do both.
We didn't do showcases so we had to take our act to the coaches. We had lots of northern schools making offers but my son wanted to play in the South and in a great location. At 1st I looked at a broad range of schools but as interest grew we narrowed it down to 4 year colleges. The final choice had little to do with BB.
If I had encountered any coach that had a problem with me contacting them I sure didn't see it. The only problem I had was reaching coaches who would call back and I would miss the call. Most coaches were extremely busy recruiting etc.
I also did what CD mentioned where I showed my son pitching to guys on their teams current roster.

College coaches at least the ones I talk to frequently do not have a problem with parents making contact with them. What they do have a problem with are the parents that will not stop making contact with them. The ones that do not allow the player to communicate with them without them being on the other phone everytime. The ones that will not allow the player to build some type of relationship with them outside of constant interference by the parents.

At some point and time the coach is going to wonder "Why is the parent always contacting me? Why is Jimmy not calling? Does Jimmy want to come here or does mom and dad want Jimmy to come here?"

The fact is at some point and time your son is going to have to take the lead in the conversation and communication department in all this. When it or if it gets down to talking about money then any coach worth his salt is going to insist that the parents be there.

I was talking to a coach recently and he brought in a family with the player and he was so frustrated because he was trying to talk to the player and get a feel for him. Everytime he asked the player a question the parents would answer for the player. The player hardly said a word.

So there is a balance that has to be struck. YES parents can call the coaches. YES parents should be a part of it. YES parents should assist in the process. But the player should want to build some type of relationship with the coach. And he shouldnt have to have mom and dad right there everytime he talks to the coaches. And if the only time their is contact with the coaches the parents are making the contact that is a serious red flag to college coaches. And it should be.

I wanted my son to be the guy on the phone. I wanted him to be the person up front. I felt the type of young man he is and the way he handled himself was a selling point to any college program. I wanted them to get to know him and he to get to know them. This way he could formulate his own opinion. Nothing was going to happen until I gave my ok. The parent might love the coach and have built a great relationship with the coach. The problem is the parent is not going to be the one playing for the coach. Your son is.

This may irk some but I am going to put it out there. If your son is not ready to talk to a college coach , not ready to at least have a conversation with him , he is not ready to play college baseball. Your kid is not going to sign his life away without your permission anyway. The important stuff is going to be discussed between the two of you and then the three of you at some point and time. Make the initial contact if you want to. But really why cant the player do it? What would hold more value to a coach? A player calling and talking to the coach? Or the parent calling?

And before any of you jump on me - to each his own. If what you did worked well for you then fine. I am speaking to those in the process right now or thinking about being in the process in the future. And I post this hoping to assist and help. Not ridicule or insult.