Chameleon

If you want to see a REAL PATHETIC example of this watch girl's softball.

And I mean at it's highest level. DI...USA...Olympic team etc etc.

While there are a few good ones, I can count on one hand how many I've seen that could hit the grass with a woody.

And I like the game. I watch the WCWS every year. I like to see the players "go for it".

But the teaching has been SO bad over the years and now the new teacher is teaching them to drag the bat.

Agree - and let me add - you see "drag the bat" - but I have also seen alot of "throw the bat at the ball" as well.
Especially in HS and collegiate baseball.

And - with aluminum - it works for many.

Virtually no load - no "stretch and fire" - no torque.

Just take the bat - get your timing together - and throw the metal at the ball.

And bang.

You have a .200 hitter hitting .365

I think it sucks and I hate watching it.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
If you want to see a REAL PATHETIC example of this watch girl's softball.

And I mean at it's highest level. DI...USA...Olympic team etc etc.

While there are a few good ones, I can count on one hand how many I've seen that could hit the grass with a woody.

And I like the game. I watch the WCWS every year. I like to see the players "go for it".

But the teaching has been SO bad over the years and now the new teacher is teaching them to drag the bat.

The metal to wood argument is never going to change in fast-pitch. Nor will it change soon at the collegiate or high school level in baseball. I will mention that conference at both levels experimented last year with wood in baseball. However, this isn't a gender issues. The minus numbers do affect the fast-pitch game a little more but then again, not in bat lag as much as other issues. You have players playing with -10 as a norm and some with -9. However, if lag was a real problem, then a hitter could go as much as -12 or more. I'd say that the best in D-I or on the Olympic team all use the -9 and -10. Per the not so veiled comment on the teacher, you could direct that at several teachers. FYI, the coaches at RVP (Candrea and Enquist) have a very similar approach to some other teachers of the game to whom I believe you refer. Of course I'm sure that you might suggest that they don't understand hitting. Perhaps you're going to finally get off of your assets and make that DVD and be counted. Then the general public can have that as a comparison to the others including all that are constantly refered to on this site.

When commenting on D-I and the Olympic Team, note that those institutions are comprised of the best players in the world. To suggest that there aren't any players that can hit in that group is simply absurd and was, what prompted this response. Perhaps the next absurd statement would include statements such as the beer league in St. Louis has better players. The best players from around the world come to America to play collegiate fast-pitch. Note the number of players in the Olympics that are mentioned as playing collegiate softball here! More than a handful can hit!!! Just my 2 cents!

quote:

but I have also seen alot of "throw the bat at the ball" as well.
Especially in HS and collegiate baseball.

ITS - that is so true, and I hate seeing a kid get a cheap hit just sticking the metal in the hitting zone.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Just my 2 cents!

Acknowleging your value does put your response into perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Just my 2 cents!

Acknowleging your value does put your response into perspective.

Richard, you have to do better than that.

How about the validity of an argument where the bad weight ie. -9 or -10 adds another factor into the equation of bat lag and/or technique. How about an argument in relation to the comeback of wood. Beside, I'm worth more than 2 cents. Last I looked, when I die, the wife is going to do well. ((Now don't you get any ideas!!! ))

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Richard, you have to do better than that.

Plenty adequate.

When you say something that makes sense I'll respond.

Until then, continue to support the teacher/teaching of bat drag.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Richard, you have to do better than that.

Plenty adequate.

When you say something that makes sense I'll respond.

Until then, continue to support the teacher/teaching of bat drag.

Well, just supporting someone that now has a 1,000 members on his site and of whom supports his theories with research from some of the best out there. I would note that this research is from various fields and isn't your voodoo video. You point out in one thread Pujos. I can reference a site where you reference Pujos to support that teacher's theory. You reference Bonds. I can reference a hundred or more posts where you reference that teacher and how Bonds is the posterboy for that teacher and his theories. Not one to point out the obvious BUT you did too until you were booted from his site. It is amazing how a couple of weeks later you had this epiphany of how all that gentleman does is wrong and now you see the light. Your continued shots at him demonstrate that he hit a nerve and you can't let it go. Someone take away your toy? Sounds like a kid on the outside of the fence upset because he can't get in to play.

What is going to happen and perhaps soon is that you'll post enough here that he will come on this site and make a post or two. Of course you know that the chances of that are slim since he has business interest and copywrited materials that he needs to protect for his job while you refuse to take a stand, produce a video, go out and be a speaker on your theories and so, you thrive in the world of internet hitting guru. What do you have to lose? ...and for the hundredth time, if your "stuff" is so good then why aren't all of the people here joining your site? I find it amazing that you have to post here and on other sites like eteamz etc. when you have your own private site.

My intention for this new topic was to generate discussion regarding the use of aluminum bats - and their effects (if any) on learning solid hitting mechanics.

My intention wasnt to create a cyber slam contest.

I was pitching this past week for fall ball, and all the other team was really just check swinged the whole time. Doing this, they hit over the outfields heads almost every time. We still won but I gave up 4 runs that way.

I myself use a composite bat.

When speaking of fast pitch hitting and the aluminmum bat issue.You MUST bring into the argument the much heavier ball being thrown slower.Also the ball is softer.


With all these things added,the ball isn't going to be hit nearly as hard or travel nearly as far so allowing the aluminum only makes since.

I personally feel some of these girls are amazing hitters,no matter what hitting style or bats they use.To get that big, heavy, slow ball to travel the way some do with relatively small frames.


What is the rule on bats in high school baseball in most states? Here,I believe it is -3.Not wood but still takes a pretty good high scool hitter to swing well with.imo

CoachB25, I think it's only fair that I say this since many people are reading what is being said here......

What happened between Chameleon and the other person in question is more than just getting kicked off his site.....There is alot more to this story....There is always two sides to every disagreement.......Which story someone wishes to believe is, well, entirely up to them, IMO......

I will say this as per Chameleon taking shots at the other guy....The other guy takes his fair share of shots at Chameleon and those who asociate with him, also....This I know as a fact....

As per science and experts......I really don't believe anyone can "accurately" claim they know what MLB hitters are scientifically doing with their body when swinging a bat......Then, there are "semantics" involved which can be used to further cloud the issue, scientifically (supposedely), or otherwise.......

As per Chameleon's past hitting theory beliefs.....It's null and void, as it was only a part of his journey of continually learning.....He disproved that stuff, at least in his mind......So have some others, as you know.....

Now, I will allow that Chameleon's bedside manner is, well, we know what it is......I'm sure nobody will argue there is lots of room for improvement......

As per the other person in question posting on here....I'm sure Chameleon would welcome that happening.....I can say, so would I......He can bring his "science" and have a discussion anytime......I would think Chameleon, Tom and a few others would look forward to the opportunity to debate swing theory with him on here.....

I just want to add....

IMO, this is turning into the best hitting discussion board anywhere....I would like to see it continue this way....

Dog,

I think it is getting alot better because many people that contribute here are starting to realize that virtually no human being wants to be lectured to or talked down to.

Even in cyber world.

This board has always had a wealth of knowledge - and a wealth of lively debate - on just about every baseball subject imaginable.

Lets hope we all continue to express ourselves truthfully - debate lively - and keep the personal attack stuff far away.

It would be a wasted opportunity to do otherwise IMO.

As is well known....I was a PCR/PCRW Kool Aid drinker......chugger. Aggressive proponent.

For a long time.

Long enough to be told I knew the stuff better than anyone else.

So long a time to be afforded ample time to use it. Both my son and myself.

So long a time that the evidence was clear that it doesn't work. (HINT: Ask them why virtually all the clips they post are of tee work. Let me answer the question.....because NONE of them have been in a batters box since they started promoting their junk)

So long a time that we trial and erred our way to the mlb pattern. A pattern completely different than PCR/PCRW.

We spent 6 years PCR/PCRWing. Couldn't "get there".

We spent a few weeks early this summer working on the Second Engine and had immediate results.

My son had never hit a HR before in his life. He hit 6 this past summer. Including one of only two to EVER be hit out of right field in a certain park we play in. He filled the gaps with 2B's. He hit the best pitchers he'd ever seen. Got picked up by "tournament teams" for weekend play.

I have no explanation for the timing of our "find" other than I had been "enamored with" smart sounding stuff from people who like to tell you how smart they were. And because of that I didn't follow my instincts. I trusted the "smart sounding" stuff....even though trial and error was dissenting.

Smart sounding stuff like....big muscles doing the work....kinetic chain....shoulder rotation....swing plane in line with shoulder turn....etc etc.

All sounds smart.

Problem is it doesn't work.

So.....we flew the coup.....and decided to do what we found that worked.

I have heavily promoted what works. They don't like to hear it. They really don't like to hear about our success. lol.

I have admitted....several times....that I was wrong in the past about PCR/PCRW.

Here is the first time...

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=355&st=0

When will they? When will you Coach25....oh yeah, that's right....you won't take a stand. Stay safe.

Several of us have admitted our belief in PCR was wrong. We have admitted that Tom.guerry and Swingbuster were right all along.

When will they?

Because the evidence is simply overwhelming.

PCR/PCRW have two options. Drag the bat or pull off the ball. ANY swing that is swung with shoulder turn is subject to those two options.

Now, Coach25....will YOU enter a hitting discussion versus a personality discussion.

Your history says you won't.

I know why. Should I tell them.

Our Journey Documented

The top row of clips is one clip per year from soph in high school to soph in college.

The rest are from this summer.

The difference is stunning. Not just in results but also in video comparison. He is now within the high level mlb pattern. He was far from it before. You can see the bat drag in the top row of clips. Why? Because they tell you the hands are "along for the ride". That they "just hang on to the d a m n bat". Their exact words. Their exact belief. (of course, they really have two answers to this issue....one for us dads and one for the professional players that insist the hands play a role....and they got caught offering two answers to the same question....and they like to blame me....I guess because I exposed them) Not only do they teach the hands wrong...they also teach the lower body wrong. Separation is of utmost importance. They say it matters not...that it occurs naturally at launch (can you say slop in the swing....slack in the swing) if you do this and that. COMPLETE NONSENSE evidenced by virtually ALL of their students spinning. They never show the high level mlb pattern. Telling someone to "stay closed" until "go" is simply killing that student. The hips HAVE TO CLEAR before you can swing. The hips HAVE TO OPEN BEFORE GO to create separation. Yet they continually say.....turn the front hip into the rear hip...keep the front knee closed....

NONE of their nonsense is supported by video of the best....yet they continually say let that be your guide.

I finally did. Only cost us 6 years.

As to the "research they do"....that is really funny.

Virtually none of the people they read have spent any significant time in the batters box. They read "trainers" stuff and think that will help them with "hitting mechanics". They read "how the body generates power" but have never read "how the body generates power in the batters box".

Sorry, but they continue to do what I did. They listen to "smart sounding people".

Problem is those smart sounding people have never been in the batters box.

And then, in their arrogance, they ignore what people who make millions swinging a bat have to say.

You decide.

Only got a minute, but would like to say this…

What has caused me to gain a lot of respect for people like Chameleon, Bluedog and others on here, is the fact that they’ve actually changed their minds about some things over the past few years. It would be very interesting to go back a few years and read the posts. But there’s no need for that.

I think those who end up being the best or most knowledgeable are those who keep searching. None of us will ever know everything there is to know, but we can keep searching. While at times it appears Chameleon’s actions/words sound like that of a know it all. I don’t think he is yet satisfied with what he knows. That is a good thing, in my book. It’s why I try to read all his posts, even the sarcastic ones!

And because I'm from Iowa.

Chameleon,do you think it is possible he learned this high level mlb swing so quickly is because of the mechanics learned from the other methods?


I believe what you preach and what the others say are more similar than different.


I personally feel that the other methods are building blocks and should be utilized as such.

I told my son to try to hold the bat and just float his hands as you describe it and he changed no mechanics from what he has been learning(he did add stride,which is something he hasn't made his mind up on yet) but he did seem to have better timing which will always equate to better results.

It was only 1 game and against the best pitcher in his league.Results were good but I will have to wait untill next year to let him work out what best fits HIM.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
My intention for this new topic was to generate discussion regarding the use of aluminum bats - and their effects (if any) on learning solid hitting mechanics.

My intention wasnt to create a cyber slam contest.

and I apologize but will no longer let Richard take shots at another without firing back. His comments were noted and no response would have been given by me until the shot at that other person.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:
Chameleon,do you think it is possible he learned this high level mlb swing so quickly is because of the mechanics learned from the other methods?

Impossible. He does nothing that he used to do.

His new swing is completely upper body controlled. The old swing was lower body controlled.

I would say he learned it quickly because it's really pretty simple. Snap the Pole.

Those who teach hitting for a living need to make it hard so they can keep selling stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
My intention for this new topic was to generate discussion regarding the use of aluminum bats - and their effects (if any) on learning solid hitting mechanics.

My intention wasnt to create a cyber slam contest.

and I apologize but will no longer let Richard take shots at another without firing back. His comments were noted and no response would have been given by me until the shot at that other person.

Again....another PCR apologist who will not enter the arena of ideas. Just protecting his buddy....no matter how wrong he is.

Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
CoachB25, I think it's only fair that I say this since many people are reading what is being said here......

Bluedog, I understand your need to respond just as I have responded. Again, and as I mentioned in my response to Its, I would not have said anything had the reference to Steve been left out. I've sat back long enough. Richard has his own site and he will have to use it soon.

quote:

What happened between Chameleon and the other person in question is more than just getting kicked off his site.....There is alot more to this story....There is always two sides to every disagreement.......Which story someone wishes to believe is, well, entirely up to them, IMO......

I also agree with the exception that I have Richard's own posts to back my assertions. Quotes like his response on Steve's site where he stated that he didn't do a couple of things per what Steve meant when he suggested... I have the permisssion to post those comments but with the exception of one time, have avoided doing so.

quote:

I will say this as per Chameleon taking shots at the other guy....The other guy takes his fair share of shots at Chameleon and those who asociate with him, also....This I know as a fact....

Yes, this is a fact but then realize that Steve does this on his own site. I've never seen him do this on any other site. Any such remarks by the way have ALWAYS been followed by Steve citing scientific research/documents where any reader of his site can reference said material to see if they gleened out of that reference what Steve did. That is one of the traits that I've admired about Steve. He makes a statement and references a point of research but also encourages the members of his site to look it up. Again Steve could come on here and is registered here. However, for him to argue back with Richard would be to also reveal those thoughts/drills/research which determines his occupation and which is also the great benefit of his private site. Therefore, Richard is getting away with all of this without Steve being able to come on here (public site) to defend himself.

quote:

As per science and experts......I really don't believe anyone can "accurately" claim they know what MLB hitters are scientifically doing with their body when swinging a bat......Then, there are "semantics" involved which can be used to further cloud the issue, scientifically (supposedely), or otherwise.......

Very telling statement and as you know we've talked about this at length. Yes, we both agree that this is a learning process and that you can find very similar traits in MLB hitters at points in the swing process and then also find positions in the swing where they are not similar. The trick then is to establish what you might call your "base" and go from there on teaching what you believe. That is why you've been at this for a long time. You have your belief and I respect that. Richard does to and I'd leave him alone should he cease his attacks on Steve. I've felt like I'm doing a disservice to a friend by letting Richard get away with some of these attacks and will no longer look the other way. Should he decide to stop the attacks on Steve, he can say what he wants and I'll take a back seat and let everyone else determine their own belief system.

quote:

As per Chameleon's past hitting theory beliefs.....It's null and void, as it was only a part of his journey of continually learning.....He disproved that stuff, at least in his mind......So have some others, as you know.....

Bluedog, those of us, like you, have been through a process. Epstein, Hudgens, Peavy, et. all have influenced our thought process regarding what we like or dislike. I don't have a problem with that. You know much of my journey and you know that I've made some questionable assertions along the line. I don't deny that. Richard can believe what he wants. I could care less but, and again, I'm going to stop the attacks on Steve. If Richard can avoid those references, he can post till the cows come home on what he believes and I'll sit back.

quote:

Now, I will allow that Chameleon's bedside manner is, well, we know what it is......I'm sure nobody will argue there is lots of room for improvement......

Bluedog, we both know I'm not an innocent participant in this argument. I have my dark side as well. As a moderator on this site, I've stayed in the background. I won't from now on when he mentions Steve or PCR. I don't attempt to force any belief on anyone.

quote:

As per the other person in question posting on here....I'm sure Chameleon would welcome that happening.....I can say, so would I......He can bring his "science" and have a discussion anytime......I would think Chameleon, Tom and a few others would look forward to the opportunity to debate swing theory with him on here.....

Yes, that would be great for our readers. However, and again, that would be bad for Steve in that he'd take public those thoughts, ideas, drills, research, works in progress that make belonging to his Private site unique. If I were him, I wouldn't do that. Why join his site if you can get all of the info for free. It is his business. A business, I might add, that is booming. More than a few people want to know what the stir is about.

Still won't enter the arena of ideas.

Must threaten censorship.

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

Good idea.

Here is a clip I made of PCR on the left and Second Engine on the right. Both swings are against the same pitcher....the best pitcher in our state....a year apart.

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

TripleDad, any member of Steve's site such as myself have signed agreements not to discuss those drills, technique (poor choice of words since PCR is a process and not a technique) etc. I'd recommend that if you're truly interested, type Englishbey hitting into your search engine and then go sign up for the public site. There is a bunch of info contained there and I'm sure you'd find the thread, "What the hell is PCR?" to be interesting.

JMHO!

Met with Englishbey in person in Mar 06.

Had our conversion in Sep 06.

What do you thing we did in the spring and summer of 06, CoachB25?

I'll tell you. We did everything he suggested....even what we weren't doing before.

And it still doesn't work. Period. And he/you/others will never know it until he/you/others gets into the batters box.

All PCR, PCRW, ***** and Englishbey can do is drag the bat. They have figured out how to drag it a littel faster. But....drag is their main option.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

Good idea.

Here is a clip I made of PCR on the left and Second Engine on the right. Both swings are against the same pitcher....the best pitcher in our state....a year apart.

That's like saying that when John John swings and hits the ball it's because I've coached him and when he swings and misses the ball it's the coach's fault. So many flaws in this argument I start with type, location, etc. of the pitch unless you have a magical formulas for saying that these pitches were exactly the same speed and location a year apart and that the pitcher didn't make any changes.

Per commenting on your son's swing, I'm never going to do that. I have never and will never bring your child into this argument.

OH AND HE CENSORSHIP LINE, YOU PROMISED THAT YOU WOULD CREATE A PUBLIC SITE OPEN FOR ALL AND WOULD NEVER CENSOR ANYONE. YOU THREW SOMEONE OFF OF THAT SITE WITHIN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS.

You're not entering are you?

Beware.

You will be exposed.

Same pitcher. Same pitch. Pretty much the same location.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:


TripleDad, any member of Steve's site such as myself have signed agreements

THIS is hilarious.

Tripledad.

Here are some differences between PCR and the mlb pattern

1) Hips do not remain closed until "go". They separate against the upper body prior to "go".
2) Hands are not "along for the ride". They torque the barrel at "go".
3) Lead leg and knee does not remain closed until "go". They open.
4) Knob is not pulled...the barrel is turned.
5) The shoulders do not rotate...they laterally tilt.
6) There is no "box" that is maintained. There is a triangle that is rotated.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Met with Englishbey in person in Mar 06.

Had our conversion in Sep 06.

What do you thing we did in the spring and summer of 06, CoachB25?

I'll tell you. We did everything he suggested....even what we weren't doing before.

And it still doesn't work. Period. And he/you/others will never know it until he/you/others gets into the batters box.

All PCR, PCRW, ***** and Englishbey can do is drag the bat. They have figured out how to drag it a littel faster. But....drag is their main option.

I have a lot of kids in college that have proven differently. One in the Cape Cod League did exceedingly well. I have a baseball program and a feeder system that has proven differently. For a school system of 1,300 who plays over half of their games against schools of 2,000 or more, we do just fine with this. College coaches tend to recruit us hard and so, I'm guessing they aren't seeing the flaws. People on this board like SIBullets who have seen my players play during the summer are also impressed. Guess we'll just stay with something that works. BTW, I'm not saying that this system worked for your child. If not, move on as you have. No problem. However, promote what you believe and we're fine. Attack others and we're not.

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Tripledad.

Here are some differences between PCR and the mlb pattern

1) Hips do not remain closed until "go". They separate against the upper body prior to "go".
2) Hands are not "along for the ride". They torque the barrel at "go".
3) Lead leg and knee does not remain closed until "go". They open.
4) Knob is not pulled...the barrel is turned.
5) The shoulders do not rotate...they laterally tilt.
6) There is no "box" that is maintained. There is a triangle that is rotated.

Now TripleDad go to Steve's site and see if this is what he says in the thread, "What the hell is PCR?" You decide from what Richard says is PCR and what Steve says. I'm betting you're going to see some drastic differences.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

Good idea.

Here is a clip I made of PCR on the left and Second Engine on the right. Both swings are against the same pitcher....the best pitcher in our state....a year apart.

Just an observation - but the swing on the left looks "powerless" - the swing on the right looks "powerful".

Its tough for me - given that I couldnt care less about any guru - and that I have virtually no knowledge of the swing.

But it still isnt all that hard to see.

Its, there are several way that vodoo video can give this impression. Not the least of which is the amount of time between frames or how long the frame is displayed. Also important are camera angle, pitch location, type of pitch etc. For example, take two swings from any MLB Player. Given video at 60 fps, the hitter that is sitting and hitting dead red looks impressive. The hitter that is sitting dead red and gets a ball either out of the zone they are looking in or off spead looks terrible. You can't tell from this video either pitch speed, location, type of pitch ... JMHO! Also, let's face it, David Ecstein hits a ball out once in a while.

Coach,

Like I said - despite my best efforts to learn over the last 40 years - I am clueless when it comes to understanding the swing.

All I do is watch - and then comment. Same old same old.

I dont like the swing on the left - and I do like the swing on the right.

Thats about it.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Met with Englishbey in person in Mar 06.

Had our conversion in Sep 06.

What do you thing we did in the spring and summer of 06, CoachB25?

I'll tell you. We did everything he suggested....even what we weren't doing before.

And it still doesn't work. Period. And he/you/others will never know it until he/you/others gets into the batters box.

All PCR, PCRW, ***** and Englishbey can do is drag the bat. They have figured out how to drag it a littel faster. But....drag is their main option.

I have a lot of kids in college that have proven differently. One in the Cape Cod League did exceedingly well. I have a baseball program and a feeder system that has proven differently. For a school system of 1,300 who plays over half of their games against schools of 2,000 or more, we do just fine with this. College coaches tend to recruit us hard and so, I'm guessing they aren't seeing the flaws. People on this board like SIBullets who have seen my players play during the summer are also impressed. Guess we'll just stay with something that works. BTW, I'm not saying that this system worked for your child. If not, move on as you have. No problem. However, promote what you believe and we're fine. Attack others and we're not.

It's all about you coach.

Do you really expect me to believe you've put in the necessary time with each and everyone of those players.

It isn't possible.

You make out a lineup card. You decide to bunt or not. And you make pitching changes.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
Tripledad.

Here are some differences between PCR and the mlb pattern

1) Hips do not remain closed until "go". They separate against the upper body prior to "go".
2) Hands are not "along for the ride". They torque the barrel at "go".
3) Lead leg and knee does not remain closed until "go". They open.
4) Knob is not pulled...the barrel is turned.
5) The shoulders do not rotate...they laterally tilt.
6) There is no "box" that is maintained. There is a triangle that is rotated.

Now TripleDad go to Steve's site and see if this is what he says in the thread, "What the hell is PCR?" You decide from what Richard says is PCR and what Steve says. I'm betting you're going to see some drastic differences.

PCR is a blueprint.

lol

ROFLAMMFAO

As he tries to distance himself from it.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Chameleon, why don't you describe the PCR swing vs your swing item by item.

BTW: who are the gurus of the pcr swing? Do all rotational swing teachers, teach the PCR?

Good idea.

Here is a clip I made of PCR on the left and Second Engine on the right. Both swings are against the same pitcher....the best pitcher in our state....a year apart.

Just an observation - but the swing on the left looks "powerless" - the swing on the right looks "powerful".

Its tough for me - given that I couldnt care less about any guru - and that I have virtually no knowledge of the swing.

But it still isnt all that hard to see.

The swing on the left is hip driven. The swing on the right is hand driven.

Counter-intuitive.....but VERY true.

Be careful of the coach who teaches a go move in the hips.