CIF approves new bat changes for 2011

Or you can buy the brand new composite sitting in my closet.Easton stealth, and a brand new Demarini.Never could use them since sons school uses N IKE.

The Easton still has the wrapper on. 400.00 bat.It is a replacement bat for a broken one.

Sell it to

Not unless they wear helmets.That is a huge safety issue.

If one of them was hit with a ball it could cause memory loss.

Just joking.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Sell it to

Is she calling her shot? It looks like one of those "rolled bats"

I suspect perfomance enhancing drugs.

Looks like the bats are becoming available so we can expect the CIF to enforce the rule. I stole this from the post in the General section.

Mattingly%20V-Force%20BBCOR%20Baseball%20Bat]Eastbay BBCOR Bats

The CIF has been very clear about the change. The relevant passage from their latest bulletin is below. The idea is that if bats are not widely available, the BBCOR change will be delayed.

In my opinion, bats are likely to be widely available. Sporting Goods stores with inventories of BESR bats are not happy about this. The bat companies are not happy about it either. But the production runs required to supply college baseball are big enough that the BBCOR bats are likely to be available throughout CA. Just one man's opinion...

CIF bulletin regarding BBCOR Bats (excerpted):

8. Q: When will I be able to purchase an aluminum bat that meets the
new standards?

A: Since the CIF is accelerating the implementation of aluminum bats to
2010-2011 instead of 2011-2012, the bat manufacturers are just learning
of the CIF action. It is anticipated that aluminum bats will be
available prior to January 1, 2011. If the aluminum bats that meet the
new standards are not available statewide, aluminum bats meeting the
current Ball Exit Speed Ratio (BESR) standards will be allowed. As the
school year progresses, updates to this question will be posted on the
CIF Web site: ciftstate.org.

9. Q: What exactly do you mean by "available statewide"?

A: Schools and individuals will have the same opportunity to purchase
aluminum bats from their normal sources, regardless of where they live.
As the year progresses, CIF will monitor the availability of these bats.
Availability updates will be posted on the CIF Web site.

PS. Regardless of the BBCOR/BESR decision, it is clear that all the composite bats are OUT for this year unless they are BBCOR compliant.

Saw the new Nike bats in action this week-end during a scrimmage. Very obvious difference in how far the ball carries and how it sounds off the bat. I really wonder how much "wiggle room" there is in the BBCOR specs? I think my son's team is actually going to try different brands to see if there is a noticeable difference. Seems like these bats will really change the game.

Fan Of Game- we're in trouble! ( Her son's school uses Nike bats too)

CaBB,

quote:

Saw the new Nike bats in action this week

Nike bats were horrible last year.I wish they would stick with making clothes.Nike bats put teams at a severe disadvantage.

.

I'm still confused by the CIF Q&A page, specifically question 4. http://www.cifstate.org/sports/other/baseball.html

4. Q: Will I be able to use the composite bat I used last year?

A: Probably not. However, the NFHS will allow waivers or modifications under certain circumstances as long as the composite bats meet the current BESR standards AND pass the new ABI procedure. The composite bats meeting this waiver or modification will be posted on the CIF Web site, cifstate.org, as the information becomes available. (It is anticipated very few bats will meet the waiver requirements.)

The top of the Q&A page links the NFHS waiver approved BESR-ABI composite bats, but it wouldn't make sense for these hotter BESR bats to be legal in CA when aluminum bats must meet BBCOR. I'm thinking that CIF may have just cut and pasted info from NHFS, but it may cause some people to buy these bats, only to find out they may not be legal for CA HS play. If the bats on this list are truly approved by CIF, it would seem worthwhile to get one for just this year. Any one have a different interpretation of the website info?

Heres some updates posted by CIF as of 10/1/10

http://www.cifstate.org/sports/other/baseball.html

So the updated (10/1/10) response for Question 4 says:
UPDATE: A list of non-wood bats meeting the approved waiver is now posted. Click on the link to the NFHS Web site that is provided. THESE BATS ARE ONLY APPROVED FOR 2010-11 and will not be approved for 2011-12.

This implies that the waiver approved BESR/ABI composite bats will be legal in CA for 2010-11, but I still don't think that is correct as it contradicts the required BBCOR standard. Anybody know someone at CIF to get a clarification?

We are goining to be staying away from the comps for a while. As far as im concerned none of those comps approved were very good last year. The only one I ever saw being used was the CF4. I'm confused on this Tamper evident stamp is it for comps only or does it apply to alloy bats to. So if you get a BBCOR bat for 2011 and it dosent have the Tamper evident stamp it might not be legal for 2012. It sounds like they did not do their home work on this BBCOR decision or maybe I did not understand it right.


2. Q: What are the new standards for composite bats?

A: They must meet the BBCOR standards that include the Accelerated Break In (ABI) procedure and these bats will be affixed with some type of decal/stamp/silkscreen mark that indicates the bat is BBCOR compliant. In 2010-11, these bats do not need to be affixed with a “tamper evident” stamp/decal or have a stamp/decal that indicates the type of material contained in the barrel of the bat. (It is anticipated that the bat manufacturers, which produce a BBCOR-compliant bat this year, will meet the “tamper evident” seal displayed on the barrel of the bat decal/stamp, but it is possible that bats which have only the BBCOR compliant stamp/decal will be produced.)
UPDATE: Information that we've received indicates the "tamper evident" mark will not be on the 2010-11BBCOR approved bats list. In that case, the "tamper evident" mark will not be required this year.


3. Q: If I purchase a composite bat for the 2010-11 season that only has the BBCOR compliant mark, will the bat be legal in the 2011-12 school year?

A: At this point, no. Starting in 2011-12, all legal non-wood bats must have all the compliance marks as indicated previously.
UPDATE: Our sources indicate some type of "tamper evident" technology will be available next year, 2011-12. Once a definitive answer is available, the CIF will determine the best course of action to take.

The CIF has hosed this up so bad. Why? Because of the bat companies. Would have been much better to go with wood, even if it was for 2 years. Now there is no clear solution, some bats may or may not be usable.

There is no way they have these bats out in time for the high school season.........either go to wood or put it off until 2012 like the other 49 states.

I have heard that BBCOR will not happen this year due to availability, and will be in effect next season. The bat folks could not meet the demand that quickly. A pretty hosed up deal.

I hope thats true. But after the way the CIF has messed this up they wont decide untill the last minute.

Update via LA Times today:

LA Times Varsity Insider


"Marie Ishida, executive director of the CIF, said Wednesday that a list of BBCOR-approved bats should be available by next week from the National Federation of State High School Assns. website and should be available for purchase at Sports Authority and other commercial outlets as early as December.

Sports Authority has agreed to put a CIF label on bats that can be used for the 2011 season and beyond.

The CIF is requiring aluminum bats used in 2011 must meet new BBCOR requirements. There also will be a list of bats that have a one-year waiver and can be used in 2011 but not in 2012."

So if you dont buy it from sports authority and it wont have that sticker will it be ok to use beyond 2011. Hmm if not that sounds kinda fishy. I wonder how many of those stickers will disapear out the back door and for how much.

Here's a couple of replies to the LA Times Varsity Insider. I think they make some pretty good points.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...mesinsider/baseball/


Eric Re. BBCOR bats

Will there be enough bats out there ? How many high schools in Ca. have a baseball program and how many thousands of players out there will need to buy a bat before the spring season starts.

I can see it now most of the baseball players in the state will be shopping in Jan. for a bat and there wont be enough what then.

Do the powers to be at CIF have a plan if some schools and players can't get a BBCOR bat. The BBCOR bat selection is a lot less then the BESR bat selection
from what I've seen for sale online so far.



Posted by: JAD82 | November 14, 2010 at 07:50 PM


Good point JAD82. How can there be enough BBCOR bats available in the next few months for the approximately 44,000 hish school baseball players in California?
I believe that college players will also take precedence over the CA high school players, when it comes to bat availability. Bat companies need to manufacture enough bats to supply college players on the DI,II and III levels, not to mention NAIA schools and JC's across the whole country. What was the CIF thinking? Have a clue Ishida and look into some facts before you make ignorant decisions.

Posted by: Mission League Parent | November 16, 2010 at 10:39 AM

quote:

http://www.cifstate.org/sports/other/baseball.html

Latest update on 11/16 with the BBCOR approved bat list. They state that the information regarding bat availability is still accurate. At least they moved the BESR/ABI waiver approved link so that it should no longer be confusing, though if bat availability is not a problem, then the link should be removed completely. I've never bought a bat at list price, so I think I'm holding off on buying until more reviews come in. Yes, bat selection is less than BESR, but it doesn't seem like there is a shortage of supply at this point as all of the online retailers indicate items in stock (except for the Eastons which are due out on Nov 22 **update: looks like they pushed availability back to mid Dec at some sites and mid Jan at others**).

My take is that CIF will screw this up. I think they already have here in California. BBCOR is available today. No question. The question is can supply meet the demand in California now! I do not think so. I think CIF Cal. should push this out until next year, and wait until the supply is built up.

A bat to a player is a bid deal! Our kids should not be forced and scramble to spend $300 on a bat they are not comfortable with. It's a feeling.

Lefty.

Easton Rep says final decision in 2 weeks but feels strongly that BBCOR is here for this season with a few bats that might be exempt.

Now the question is which BBCOR bat to buy? I guess we might as well wait until CIF posts something final on their site.

Cutter Dad: I had the same questions as you and here are my conclusions after reading the various websites. Because the Tamper Stickers for BBCOR Comp bats are NOT ready for 2011 - if you buy one of these it will only be okay to use for one season. Possibly to make up for this, certain Comp bats that were submitted for the ABI testing and passed will be allowed for just the 2011 season. After 2011, only BBCOR Comp bats will be allowed (they will all have the Tamper Sticker then).

Regarding Aluminum bats, seems like ONLY BBCOR bats will be allowed since they do not use the Tamper Stickers.

Seems to me they should have left BESR bats okay to use for 2011 except for those Comp bats that exceeded their BESR ratings. I believe that is what all the other states did. As most know, CA adopted a different policy due to political pressure.

bbdad2007 - if you are correct won't the kids (who can afford it) get one of the comp bats that passed the abi testing? Those bats I would assume are going to better than the BBCOR bats. Thoughts?

warningtrack- I would think so. We have a Combat B2 that is on the list and would love to be able to have my son use it over buying/using a BBCOR bat. Son prefers his EXO but the Combat ain't bad.

It almost seems like CIF is being intentionally vague so as not to over commit to anything at this point. It shouldn't be that difficult, but I guess they are feeling out the political and economic ramifications. If this interpretation is correct, I would guess a lot of people will be buying CF4s and B2s for 2011, as I keep hearing how dead the BBCOR bats are so far. I wouldn't go out and buy one until I hear something more definitive though. Interesting that these bats passed the ABI. Bbdad, did your son think the B2 experienced a break-in period, or has it been pretty consistent out of the wrapper?

Cutter Dad - great question on the B2. I bought it a year ago thinking it would have a lot of pop after the "typical" break in period... Son used it for a lot of BP - 100s of baseballs hit and it never really got hotter. He never used it in games - just scrimmages. Hasn't used it since June but the last time he did use it he came home and told me he thought the bat had more pop than before. So maybe it does improve but there is a huge break in period. I explained to him last night what I thought was happening with the bats and he said " see, I told you that Combat wasn't breaking in!" But he would love to use it over a new BBCOR. BTW, the combat doesn't sound like those "hot" Comp that make a funny noise - sounds sorta like a Maple wood bat but with a slightly higher pitch.

Thanks for the insight - probably a combination of son AND bat having more pop. Mine used the blue Easton Stealth comp as a frosh and soph and loves that funny noise now . He is hating having to give up the Stealth, but he pitches too, so he is cool with BBCOR from that side. I just wish CIF would be clearer about the rules, so we could figure out what to get for this year.

For a composite bat to pass the ABI test. 1st it's tested and then rolled and tested again to see if it stays within the specs.

In other words for a 2010 composite bat to pass ABI it had to realy suck last year in comparison to the hot composite bats.

quote:

In other words for a 2010 composite bat to pass ABI it had to realy suck last year in comparison to the hot composite bats.

That is cetainly one way to look at it! To be fair to the Combat, it is pretty good in some other categories. It has a large barrel - the "okay" sweet spot is probably larger than most other bats. The bat is pretty well balanced. Durability seems very good so far.

http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

Out of all the bats on this list for approved composites the only bat I have ever seen being used in 13-14 travel ball or high school games is the CF 4. To be fair to combat they do make a good youth bat but it has durability issues. The issues you brought up about breaking in is the same thing I heard about the senior league combats. My younger son used the black stealth speed 2 and loved it, now for his last year in Jr's he have to find something else to use.

Has anyone heard if Louisville is going to come out next year with a Exo that has a BBCOR rating?

My son used an Easton BBCOR this past weekend in the cage. He said it felt really good when you hit it on the sweet spot, not so good otherwise. The ball appeared to jump off the bat really well when hit good, of course in the cage it's hard to tell how far it would travel. The college we were at hit only two home runs all fall. I did hear another college hit 20 in the fall with the same Easton bat. This will get interesting, supposedly Easton is tweaking some things now and will have another version out soon for the colleges. I thought the sound was fine.

Heard from Louisville that they will come out with a BBCOR EXO March-April 2011.

Xmas shopping and found the Omaha BBCOR! I picked up the 34" and it seemed heavy compared to the BESR. Will need to get my son out to make sure we get the correct length as they do seem to be top heavy. Interesting!

They have a number of manufacturers in the baseball express catalog that showed up in the last week.

Talking to the Louisville rep all they did to the bat was thicken the wall of the bat to reduce the trampoline effect...prob why it feels top heavy now.

I agree 100% Redbb15! I have heard the same.

Has anyone in California taken the plunge and purchased a BBCOR bat yet? If so, what brand did you choose? Did your son try other brands before that decision was made? My son's HS team is going to purchase 2-3 bats, and I'll probably be picking one up in the near future. Trust me, I know it depends on what my kid is comfortable with...but I wanted to see what the opinions are before I fork out $200-$300 on another bat.