Here is an answer that leaves plenty of wiggle room. It came from a rules person at CIF:
At this moment, BESR bats will NOT be legal in California for the 2011 season. The CIF says it will make a final determination before the end of the year. The reason for the delay is that it has to be determined if bat manufacturers have enough inventory in stock to provide BBCOR bats. At the time, it does appear that there are enough BBCOR bats to provide schools with enough bats. However, if it is determined that there are not enough BBCOR bats in stock, the CIF will allow the use of BESR bats for the 2011 season. In any event, should the CIF approve BESR bats for 2011, BESR bats will not be legal for 2012 as per the National High School Rules Committee requiring that only BBCOR bats be used for high school play beginning January 1, 2012.
quote:Originally posted by Malibuskier:
Here is an answer that leaves plenty of wiggle room. It came from a rules person at CIF:
At this moment, BESR bats will NOT be legal in California for the 2011 season. The CIF says it will make a final determination before the end of the year. The reason for the delay is that it has to be determined if bat manufacturers have enough inventory in stock to provide BBCOR bats. At the time, it does appear that there are enough BBCOR bats to provide schools with enough bats. However, if it is determined that there are not enough BBCOR bats in stock, the CIF will allow the use of BESR bats for the 2011 season. In any event, should the CIF approve BESR bats for 2011, BESR bats will not be legal for 2012 as per the National High School Rules Committee requiring that only BBCOR bats be used for high school play beginning January 1, 2012.
Okay...so what you're saying is don't make that purchase until January? Hey, if I can get another year out of his current bat, I'm all for it! We'll see what happens next month?
Here is my issue with this whole thing; First off there are SOME bats available now that are BBCOR certified. However the manufacturers are currently trying to make better BBCOR bats in time for the College season. These newer versions IF available in time for the College players will most likely not be available for the entire HS population in California. If the CIF states HS is to use BBCOR this season we all have to shell out $200-$300 on a bat that is no good (probably the first generation BBCOR bats that the college players say are awful) - then the newer generation bats will come out a few months later so the kids will want those because they are better. Who wants to shell out a bunch of money for a bat that will be replaced by a newer version in a few months? Wait until the bat companies have the bats available in mass, then make the change.
I don't mind the switch, its probably for the better. But the timing of this is way off.
I don't mind the switch, its probably for the better. But the timing of this is way off.
It is even worse for the Sr's who have to purchase a new bat and then throw it away at the end of the season because. 1) They play in college and must use or get the team's bats. 2) Don't play anymore or play in mens leagues. In any case it makes no sense to try to force the change in this year and maybe the CIF will see the light.
What my son's program is considering is pooling our money and purchasing team bats so everyone does not have to run out and buy new bats.
What my son's program is considering is pooling our money and purchasing team bats so everyone does not have to run out and buy new bats.
BOF:
I think that a joint purchase is a great idea - a 31, 32 and 33 ought to do it for the team. Have them use their old bats in BP and the three new ones should last the season.
As for the seniors, hang onto those bats - if the player goes to college it is a good thing to have something to hit with when you are on your own...
08
I think that a joint purchase is a great idea - a 31, 32 and 33 ought to do it for the team. Have them use their old bats in BP and the three new ones should last the season.
As for the seniors, hang onto those bats - if the player goes to college it is a good thing to have something to hit with when you are on your own...
08
I just over heard a rawlings rep and he said the CIF can't seem to make a decision. Based on what I heard the rep and the sporting goods owner talk about, it appears they are thinking about letting BESR bats be used in 2011. Last week it was all BBCOR. Evidently a large chain sporting goods store told the CIF they would have enough BBCOR bats which is not accurate. Either way both of these people talking said they had no clue what was going to happen. This is a mess.......
A big mess! I am hearing the samething. It makes no sense to have every HS kid in Calif. rush out and spend $200 to $300 on BBCOR bat when they are barely available. I vote for 2011 also.
I was at a SportsMart last week and they were selling all BESR bats. Store clerk came up to "help" me as I was looking at the bats. Asked him about BBCOR bats and he thought I was from another planet... Explained to him what I was talking about and said it wasn't really cool to be selling BESR bats to customers who didn't know better. He ran off and I never saw him again!
quote:Originally posted by bbdad2007:
I was at a SportsMart last week and they were selling all BESR bats. Store clerk came up to "help" me as I was looking at the bats. Asked him about BBCOR bats and he thought I was from another planet... Explained to him what I was talking about and said it wasn't really cool to be selling BESR bats to customers who didn't know better. He ran off and I never saw him again!
Assuming you mean Sports Authority...
Not a good sign. This is the sporting goods retailer that has, by far, more locations than any other in CA (yes, I realize that they are also elsewhere in the country). Surely, CIF will need to rely on associates in those stores to be aware of the change very soon if the transition is to go smoothly this year. Store memos should have gone out by now. Of course, more importantly, they'll need to have the product as well.
No other retailer can come close to giving CIF the blanket coverage they are shooting for unless they are willing to count on internet retailers.
Also, Sports Authority tends to not carry a very deep selection of the better bats.
This is going to be interesting.
I was at Sports Authority today. They had the Omaha and that was it for BBCOR bats. I asked the sales rep and he said he had no idea what BBCOR was either.
I like Sports Authority, we have one three miles from our home, and I shop there often. But when it comes to Baseball items, I drive fifteen miles to the next city and shop at Dicks Sporting Goods...much better baseball selection, and the employees usually have a little knowledge of the products.
As for the BBCOR Bats, I've been advised by several people to wait until January to purchase a bat, as this thing apparently isn't etched in stone for 2011? My understanding is that CIF may suspend the requirement until 2012 and be in line with the rest of the country in high school baseball?
As for the BBCOR Bats, I've been advised by several people to wait until January to purchase a bat, as this thing apparently isn't etched in stone for 2011? My understanding is that CIF may suspend the requirement until 2012 and be in line with the rest of the country in high school baseball?
bsbl247,
yup, Dick's has a better selection of higher end baseball bats and gloves but unfortunately their only CA stores are in SoCal (they do have plans to expand).
Correct on waiting until January... CIF is waiting until then to determine if there is appropriate availability of BBCOR for enforcement. Per CIF website, they remain confident that there will be availability. However, there have been many rumblings of doubt.
yup, Dick's has a better selection of higher end baseball bats and gloves but unfortunately their only CA stores are in SoCal (they do have plans to expand).
Correct on waiting until January... CIF is waiting until then to determine if there is appropriate availability of BBCOR for enforcement. Per CIF website, they remain confident that there will be availability. However, there have been many rumblings of doubt.
Just heard from my son's hs coach that if they do not have enough BBCOR bats available for the 2011 season they will be using wood bats..BESR bats wiil not be used for the 2011 season from what he is hearing from CIF..
quote:Originally posted by Redbb15:
Just heard from my son's hs coach that if they do not have enough BBCOR bats available for the 2011 season they will be using wood bats..BESR bats wiil not be used for the 2011 season from what he is hearing from CIF..
That would be interesting although I can't see that happening for 2011. One issue is there are thousands of BESR bats that are sitting in stores all over California. What happens to the small business that has these bats in inventory. I am all for BBCOR or wood for that matter but do it for 2012. Wait until the bats are out in mass and people have a choice on what they want to buy. Don't force us to buy a certain BBCOR bat because it's the only one we can find at the local sporting goods store. If I am going to shell out $300 I would at least like to have an idea on what I am buying.
Either way, please just make a decision.
quote:Sports Authority
Yes - that is what I meant!
I was in a specialty sporting goods store yesterday. The kind that you can spend a day in because they have everything. So I ask the question, "What is the latest with BBCOR?" He said because of the law suit in California that we will be going to BBCOR in Calif. this year. The family who issued the law suit said that if California complies with BBCOR in 2011 that they will drop the suit. Unfortunately, like many posters here have noted it will cause many HS kids in Calif. to hurry and buy a very expensive bat that they are not sure they are going to like.
I say GO WOOD!
Lefty
I say GO WOOD!
Lefty
quote:He said because of the law suit in California that we will be going to BBCOR in Calif. this year.
Who is suing who
I believe a HS kid out of Marin County, is suing a baseball bat manufacturer and other parties.
The reason the CIF is going to the BBCOR a year early was to stop a lawmaker from introducing a law that would ban metal bats from high schools for two years. I have not heard anything about a lawsuit. I'm sure there is one but it had nothing to do with BBCOR going into CA a year early.
My understanding was the same as Hawghauler's.
Why file a lawsuit when you can get your buddy the state legislator to propose a bill.
It's all sort of tied together... the incident with the HS kid getting hit/badly injured brought about immediate switch to wood bats in his specific league and brought about the legislator trying to pass a law to outlaw non-wood bats for two years until regulations are put in place to make bats safer. The legislator agreed to back off of the push when CIF agreed to move up the BBCOR to this year for California.
For details, do a Yahoo search "Jared Huffman bat regulations". (he is the legislator)
For details, do a Yahoo search "Jared Huffman bat regulations". (he is the legislator)
Since I have a senior in HS and another as a freshman in D1, I figured getting BBCOR bat would be the thing to do. Last night my son and I went to sports authority to look for one to no avail. Tonight we went to DICKS(woodland hills) sporting goods and found a wide selection of BBCOR bats in different brands and sizes. They had a 33 30 with a 25.00 coupon that was sent to the house, on a 200.00 bat. I find spending about 190.00 w/tax on the bat to be less than other non BBCOR HS bats. Now the younger son will get to experience of the BBCOR bats performance before the season starts. By the amount of stock that was there tonight I would say, the new rule is here to stay.
CELTDAD,
Which BBCOR bat did you buy for your son? Also, did he happen to try a few before you made the purchase? It looks like we'll be taking the plunge a little after Christmas.
Which BBCOR bat did you buy for your son? Also, did he happen to try a few before you made the purchase? It looks like we'll be taking the plunge a little after Christmas.
He did try and swing a few in the store before a decision was made. Also I have been reading the blogs on rivals college site to get an idea on which bats where thought to perform better. So since all of them are reported to perform similarly, we went the less expensive route. He liked and purchased the omaha, based on how it felt. It sucks because nobody has these yet, so you can't get a feel of your buddies.
bsbl247 I would wait until we hear the "go" from the CIF...who knows what they may decide.
If your kid is going to play at the next level, the bat will come in useful. My older son is a freshman this year and he can use it when he comes home for the break. Even if it's not the brand his school uses.
CELTDAD & BOF,
We're thinking along the same lines. I really hate to waste money on a BBCOR bat if the new rule isn't implemented for 2011...but, my kid will have to use a BBCOR at the next level the following year, so I may still take the plunge. We'll see what happens? I believe the university my son is committed to uses Demarini's?
We're thinking along the same lines. I really hate to waste money on a BBCOR bat if the new rule isn't implemented for 2011...but, my kid will have to use a BBCOR at the next level the following year, so I may still take the plunge. We'll see what happens? I believe the university my son is committed to uses Demarini's?
My son got a chance to swing a handful of BBCOR bats over the last couple of weeks. These are the bats he swung and in the order he rated them 1) Easton surge, 2) Easton Rival, 3) Demarini Voodoo 4) Tpx Omaha 5) Rawlings 5150. The top 3 bats did not thicken the walls to make their bats BBCOR compliant the other 2 did.
Let me start with that compared to the BESR bats well it"s going to be a different game this year. The consensus was that everyone would rather swing the BESR bats. I'm still not sure what the CIF is going to decide next month. It will be interesting to see if the Bat Companies will be able to get enough bats out for all levels of college baseball plus the 40,000 plus H.S players in CA.
Easton Surge- By Far he thought this was the best BBCOR bat He said it swung and felt like BESR surge no vibration at all. Ball jumped off the bat, this is the one to get if you can.
Easton Rival- Very balanced no Vibration. Ball jumped off the bat
Demarini Voodoo- Balanced and very little Vibration the ball didn't seem to jump off of this bat. No one else liked this bat as much as he did.
Tpx Omaha- Seemed end loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus more Vibration if you didn't hit it exactly on the sweet spot.
Rawlings 5150- End loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus vibration no matter where the you hit it on the bat.
Its going to be all individual preference on whether you like a 1 or 2 piece bat or which brand you like or how much you can afford. No one there had the Anderson or the Nike BBCOR.
Let me start with that compared to the BESR bats well it"s going to be a different game this year. The consensus was that everyone would rather swing the BESR bats. I'm still not sure what the CIF is going to decide next month. It will be interesting to see if the Bat Companies will be able to get enough bats out for all levels of college baseball plus the 40,000 plus H.S players in CA.
Easton Surge- By Far he thought this was the best BBCOR bat He said it swung and felt like BESR surge no vibration at all. Ball jumped off the bat, this is the one to get if you can.
Easton Rival- Very balanced no Vibration. Ball jumped off the bat
Demarini Voodoo- Balanced and very little Vibration the ball didn't seem to jump off of this bat. No one else liked this bat as much as he did.
Tpx Omaha- Seemed end loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus more Vibration if you didn't hit it exactly on the sweet spot.
Rawlings 5150- End loaded probably because of the thickened the walls plus vibration no matter where the you hit it on the bat.
Its going to be all individual preference on whether you like a 1 or 2 piece bat or which brand you like or how much you can afford. No one there had the Anderson or the Nike BBCOR.
Great summary LJ!
My son's team mate brought a TPX to the field last week and he was able to swing it and he also said it felt top heavy. We will see if we can get our hands on a Easton to compare. We are just going to wait and keep swinging wood (which he normally does for bp anyway) and see where this all ends up.
My son's team mate brought a TPX to the field last week and he was able to swing it and he also said it felt top heavy. We will see if we can get our hands on a Easton to compare. We are just going to wait and keep swinging wood (which he normally does for bp anyway) and see where this all ends up.
I wonder why the CIF is pushing the Sports Authority Stores so much. There are more sporting good stores in the state then them and a lot more online retailers. I wonder how much they get for each bat that is sold and who is getting the kick backs. This is on the verge of extortion to get that tamper evident stamp you need to buy the bat from them.
The CIF and Sports Authority have partnered... so SA is an official store of the CIF.
By the way... if you don't know about this you should go into your high school's athletic director's office and ask....
Sports Authority has sent out 15% discount cards for all CIF member schools for all students. You can use them until July for each purchase. It has a bar code on it and the just scan it at checkout.
Also, the tamper proof labels are for BBCOR/ABI composite bats.
check out the question and answer page:
http://www.cifstate.org/govern...0copy%20-%20Copy.pdf
Pay attention to item 2 and 3:
2. Q: What are the new standards for composite bats?
A: Meets the BBCOR standards that include the Accelerated Break in (“ABI”) procedure and
these bats will be affixed with some type of decal/stamp/silkscreen mark that indicates the bat is
BBCOR compliant. In 2010‐11 these bats do not need to be affixed with a “tamper evident”
stamp/decal or have a stamp/decal that indicates the type of material contained in the barrel of
the bat. (It is anticipated that the bat manufacturers that produce a BBCOR compliant bat this
year will meet the “tamper evident” and material contained in the barrel of the bat decal/stamp,
but it is possible that bats that have only the BBCOR compliant stamp/decal will be produced.)
3. Q: If I purchase a composite bat this year, 2010‐11 that only has the BBCOR compliant mark, will
the bat be legal next school year, 2011‐12?
A: At this point, no. Starting in 2012 all legal non‐wood bats must have all the compliance marks
as indicated previously.
By the way... if you don't know about this you should go into your high school's athletic director's office and ask....
Sports Authority has sent out 15% discount cards for all CIF member schools for all students. You can use them until July for each purchase. It has a bar code on it and the just scan it at checkout.
Also, the tamper proof labels are for BBCOR/ABI composite bats.
check out the question and answer page:
http://www.cifstate.org/govern...0copy%20-%20Copy.pdf
Pay attention to item 2 and 3:
2. Q: What are the new standards for composite bats?
A: Meets the BBCOR standards that include the Accelerated Break in (“ABI”) procedure and
these bats will be affixed with some type of decal/stamp/silkscreen mark that indicates the bat is
BBCOR compliant. In 2010‐11 these bats do not need to be affixed with a “tamper evident”
stamp/decal or have a stamp/decal that indicates the type of material contained in the barrel of
the bat. (It is anticipated that the bat manufacturers that produce a BBCOR compliant bat this
year will meet the “tamper evident” and material contained in the barrel of the bat decal/stamp,
but it is possible that bats that have only the BBCOR compliant stamp/decal will be produced.)
3. Q: If I purchase a composite bat this year, 2010‐11 that only has the BBCOR compliant mark, will
the bat be legal next school year, 2011‐12?
A: At this point, no. Starting in 2012 all legal non‐wood bats must have all the compliance marks
as indicated previously.
This was in the La Times Varisity insider Nov 10. What happens if you buy a bat from another company, its not good for 2011 and beyond.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...der/baseball/page/3/
[Sports Authority has agreed to put a CIF label on bats that can be used for the 2011 season and beyond.]
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...der/baseball/page/3/
[Sports Authority has agreed to put a CIF label on bats that can be used for the 2011 season and beyond.]
If it is a metal bat and has a BBCOR compliant mark on it you can use it in 2011 and beyond. You do not have to buy it from SA. The sticky situation come when you buy a BBCOR composite bat.
They might be putting the stickers on composite bats that got a waiver for 2011 but does not have a BBCOR label on it.
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
They might be putting the stickers on composite bats that got a waiver for 2011 but does not have a BBCOR label on it.
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
I stopped by Dick's yesterday and they had a full compliment of BBCOR bats in stock. I think they had three manufacturers bats. The clerk said they just got them in last week and that they would be shipping all of the BESR bats back to the manufacturers and getting BBCOR replacements. I expect to hear something concrete from the CIF in January. Once they officially confirm we will go buy some for our HS program.
It's official, the CIF is going to BBCOR - However, there is a waiver list of bats that can be used in 2011. The waiver list has about 7-8 different composite bats, the CF4 is one of them.
Here is the waiver list;
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
Here is the waiver list;
http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155
Now the question is why would the CF4 and these other composites be allowed? There is not one kid who would rather swing a BBCOR over a CF4. I wonder what their reasoning is?
I have been wondering about that too. I wonder if I can find a CF4 on sale?
Warningtrack etal:
Your link is to the NFHS NOT CIF. Those bats CAN NOT BE USED in California this year.
Your link is to the NFHS NOT CIF. Those bats CAN NOT BE USED in California this year.