CIF approves new bat changes for 2011

This was posted on norcalpreps by the CIF

"The NFHS waiver list of Approved BESR-ABI Composite Baseball Bats have been approved for use in CIF for the 2010-11 season. After this season, 2010-11, these bats will not be approved for play."

Edited to add - the CIF has updated their website which makes it clear now, before it was confusing the way it was written.

www.cifstate.org

Thanks for the link WT.

The Southern Section web site has no information on it. I assume they will catch up next week.

If I read this correctly they are approving some composite BESR bats, but not aluminum. This is insane, so this means that umpires are going to have to carry around a list of approved bats by manufacturer and model and check them prior to each game against their list.

I am all for the change, but they should sychronize it with the rest of the country. Gota love the Peoples Republic of California.

My son's HS team used a Demarini Vexxum BBCOR bat today in a winter league game for the first time...it was pretty ugly! They had three or four hits in a regular seven inning game, and only one ball was hit solidly. According to my son, the bat felt top heavy. It appears that he'll have to swing a few BBCOR bats to determine what's comfortable?

I attended a couple D1 Fall college scrimmages in October and it was obvious the game would be different this year. After today's HS game, there's no doubt that scoring will be lacking, not to mention power numbers across the board. Strong defense and pitching will be even more of a premium than ever before...it should be an interesting season.

I still think it makes absolutely no sense for CIF to grandfather in some BESR/ABI composite bats if they can theoretically perform as well as a BESR aluminum bat. CIF is supposed to be emulating the NCAA requirement this year and NCAA does not allow these waivered bats. The waiver was intended only to allow certain BESR composites for NHFS (non-california schools) this year. I think CIF either totally misunderstood the concept, or someone in CIF has a kid swinging a CF4. Or maybe they made a deal with the bat manufacturers to try to get rid of the remaining stock.

bsbl247 - every kid in California will try and get one of those bats on the waiver list. I wonder how many will actually use bbcor bats?

So according to the bat rules published by CIF, "Effective beginning the 2010-11 school year, composite bats shall be illegal until meeting the standards of 1-3-2(e)" Standard 1-3-2(e) is the BBCOR standard, NOT the BESR/ABI waiver standard.

http://www.cifstate.org/sports...20changes%201011.pdf

I emailed the baseball rules interpreter listed on the CIF site to see if they would provide a clarification. Apologies to any CF4 or B2 owners, but this needs to be settled before the season starts.

warningtrack- You're probably right regarding the waiver list...my son is asking for a new BBCOR now to get prepared for the season. Unfortunately he's going to have to wait until everything is etched in stone. His college swings the Demarini BBCOR's, so that's probably the road we'll take? However, if as you said, others take advantage of the bats on the waiver list, I may have to reconsider?

Cutter Dad-

The CIF has clearly stated on their website that the waiver bats WILL be allowed for the 2011 season.

www.cifstate.org

In addition, below is a link to the NFHS waiver list of non-wood bats that have been approved for use in CIF for the 2010-11 season. After this season, 2010-11 these bats will not be approved for play.

NFHS Approved BESR-ABI Composite Baseball Bats - Approved for Waiver

http://www.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=4155

I also confirmed over the phone with CIF that the waiver list bats are approved. They have posted a Q&A for clarification.

http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf

They seem to understand the implications, however, their rationale was that it was some sort of compromise as a result of the settlement with AB7 and the rushed implementation of the standard. They indicated that the umpires would be advised of which bats would be legal. Although I don't agree, at least I know where to start now.

Great stuff Cutter Dad, thanks.

I still don't get the waivers for some composite bats. Very strange indeed.

Does anyone know if the Demarini composite wood bats are BESR? I can't seem to find this info online.

I've seen the BBCOR mark on them at a sports Chalet store

Here is the NFHS link to all bats.

http://m-5.eng.uml.edu/umlbrc/ncaa_certified_bats.asp

I guess, based on the new Q&A page, that the BBCOR Composite bats will not need the tamper proof ABI labels for them to be legal past 2011.


http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf

One other thing. The DeMarini VooDoo does "break-in".
My son has been using his BBCOR VooDoo now for a little over a month in BP and lessons and last night he was hitting with it and the added POP was noticeable. I asked him and he agreed that it had a bit more pop.

This ties in with a conversation with a college coach and he said it seemed like the wood bats have more pop. I think the BBCOR bats have to be broken-in to get them a little hotter.

Ok, has CIF determined if the BBCOR bats are "readily availble" to all California players? I know I've visited 2 Sports Authorities / Sports Chalets and neither have had the Easton Surge. I've seen the Voodoo but from what I've read it might not be the right choice. Also, if all other players/parents are waiting until a final decision comes down will there be 10,000 bats to go around?

The decision has been made. The answers are here;

http://www.cifstate.org/sports...BaseballBatQandA.pdf

I would imagine most kids will get bats on the waiver list. They are all better than BBCOR. Next year when BBCOR is mandatory per NFHS the second generation BBCOR bats will be available and should be better than the ones out now. Just my thoughts.....

The CF4 must be selling like crazy right now!

quote:

Originally posted by warningtrack:

The CF4 must be selling like crazy right now!

I'm not going to lay down $400 for a CF4 or any other bat on the waiver list for ONLY three months of HS baseball...But fortunately my son's HS coach is going to order a few CF4's. It's nice being part of a program that's not in the Red.

Let me throw out a question.....if someone in CIF this year has a monster year, is the first question going to be "DID HE USE THE BESR CF4"? Will it be held against him, like it was the bat and not his ability?

Very good question. The rest of the country will be using BESR bats and my guess is that most of the California kids will be using the CF4 or waiver list bats. With that said it's a pretty level playing field when comparing kids to everyone else.

The CIF has put the kids in this position. Why hold it against the kids? I would of rather seen all BBCOR or go with the NFHS until 2012. Then this question would have never been raised.

warningtrack- That's what the thought process was for my son's coach; the other schools are going to take advantage and use the bats on the waiver list, so they don't want to be left behind. I also agree that it's ridiculous that the CIF even has a "waiver list". Go 100% BBCOR, or suspend the rule until 2012 like the other 49 states and allow the kids to use their BESR rated bats!

It just proves the CIF really didn't understand BESR vs. BBCOR.

The NFHS banned composite bats for the 2011 season and will be going 100% BBCOR 2012.
NFHS setup a composite bat waiver list because the waiver list bats would not exceed the BESR rating after they were broken-in.

The CIF decided to go BBCOR early to stop a know nothing politician from pushing forward with legislation that would ban metal bats for two years.

But for some reason they included the waiver list of composite bats that had nothing to do with BBCOR, it had to do with the composite bat ban. The waiver list of bats are BESR bats. I don't think the CIF knew what they were doing.

Hawghauler you are right on the money with the waiver bats, they stay within the BESR rating but test above BBCOR rating. The problem is they tried to follow the NFHS but the rest of country goes to the BBCOR in 2012 so its ok for them to use those bats. It's the blind leading the blind. They are leaving themselves open for a law suit as soon as some pitcher gets hit. As sue happy people are in this state it should be BBCOR with no waivers.

Just in case: I found a great deal on a CBXT Triton.
Just under $170... It's all I'll do for a one season bat.

Hawghauler. I did not want to get in a bidding war with you so I did not mention anything but just bought a used CF4 one year old on ebay for $130...

Literally LOL!!

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Hawghauler. I did not want to get in a bidding war with you so I did not mention anything but just bought a used CF4 one year old on ebay for $130...

...too funny! It sounds like we all need to get reaquainted with our ebay accounts!

You guys are good. I found a brand new 2010 CF4(the gold one on the waiver list) for $249 with free shipping. I am not a fan of used bats, they could have been hitting water logged balls for all I know. LOL. My son normally does not use his game bats for practice but since it only has to last until the end of May I told him to use it.

I know at least a dozen kids who have ordered the CF4 in the last week. Demarini is happy........

It's funny. I bought my 2012 son a BBCOR Surge just before Christmas. After the waiver list info was confirmed, I asked if he wanted one from the list just in case there really was a big difference. He had only swung the Surge in the cage and thought it definitely had less pop than his Stealth IMX, but thought it would be fine (similar pop to wood, but more consistent and no vibrations). Said he would need to get used to BBCOR anyway. Me, being the overzealous dad, scoured ebay and picked up a new LS Dynasty for $75, which was probably one of the less popular bats on the list, but a decent bat from what I've heard. I justified it as a good deal for a one-season bat, even if he doesn't use it. I know, I'm a bat junkie. I told him to let his teammates borrow it for bp as much as possible to break it in.

Jr played his first game today with BBCOR and wood bats. After seeing the game it is clear that this is going to significantly change the HS game this year this year in California and next year across the country. There will be fewer cheap flairs, lots of ground balls, and fly balls that hold up in the gaps, which is going to put a premium on defense. Squared up balls will get out, we had one today, but a couple of pretty well hit line drives that caught by the center fielder. Games are going to also move fast and there will be many more games at 2 hrs or less.

Does anyone know if the waiver list is set in stone? Or is it possible for the CIF to rescind it and not allow the waiver bats because of the the 2 different bat standards ?

Don't know LJ but there is going to be one pi$$ed off BOF if they change it.

BOF - no one used any of the waiver bats?

Warningtrack. We did not have any yet, most people don’t even know about the waiver list yet, just us obsessive parents….. The HS coach bought a couple of $100 BBCOR's at sportsmart and in my son's opinion after taking BP with them they were like swinging a chunk of aluminum, so he used his wood bat. Probably ½ of the kids used the cheap BBCOR’s and the other ½ used wood. There were some well-hit balls, but many flairs, that previously would have fallen in were now hit to the SS or 2nd basemen. More groundballs also. This is all early season baseball and pitchers were only throwing fastballs and many players are just now starting to take BP so it is just one data point. Our fences are not yet up (since we have to share the outfield with so c cer (don’t even get me started on this one..) so I could not tell if one of the hit balls was a home run, probably would have been but it ended up being a triple. Doubles will still be doubles, probably fewer home runs, more doubles, fewer flairs and more reachable ground balls. Infield defense will be tested more from what I could tell. The waiver bat I purchased should be here by next week so I will report on the differences with the CF4 providing we play.

I'm half expecting the CIF will collectively wake-up one day and the understanding of what they did will dawn on them and then they will do away with the waiver list. By using the waiver list it made clear that the CIF did not have an understanding of the rules that they implemented.

Or.... I just read the Q&A web page for about the 10th time and suddenly it kind of made sense.

The CIF really didn't care about BBCOR or BESR.
All they wanted to do is appease that "know-nothing" lawmaker that wanted to outlaw aluminum bats. They got him to drop the idea by requiring all ALUMINUM bats to conform to BBCOR a year early.
The "know-nothing" lawmaker didn't say anything about composite bats and the CIF had to go along with the NFHS in banning composites except those on the waiver list.

All this was about getting the "know-nothing" lawmaker to drop the legislation. It had nothing to do with BBCOR vs. BESR.

Bsbl-son was back at with another 9 inning winter league game this weekend, and the kids are still trying to make adjustments with the BBCOR bats. Our HS has not received their shipment of BBCOR and CF4 bats yet, so they borrowed the opponents bats. It was still ugly, as the team scored three runs in nine innings. Lots of grounders and weak fly balls. There were a few well struck balls in the gaps, but it was evident that you really need to square the ball up to have a chance. They'll have to keep plugging along...we'll see if the waiver list holds up? I'd have to assume it will, otherwise there will be some angry people that wasted money on the bats on that list!

I just stopped at my local Sports Authority. About 1/3 of their inventory were new BBCOR bats (about 80 bats). What was interesting is they were all $29.99 to $49.99. In that one of the criteria for the change in standard here in CA was availability; it will be interesting if the availability standard is being met with low end bats.

I was afraid of this. When they said that "sporting good stores would have the bats" I thought "when was the last time you saw a top of the line bat in a Big 5 or Sports Authority?", and yes, they are counting those bats as part of their availability.

This is a mess!