Class Average Metrics

Numbers seem low to me, especially exit velocity.  Where did you find this?

Dadof3 posted:

Numbers seem low to me, especially exit velocity.  Where did you find this?

Lifted the averages from various PG profiles. 

Francis7 posted:

Dadof3 posted:

Numbers seem low to me, especially exit velocity.  Where did you find this?

Lifted the averages from various PG profiles. 

I don't think you're doing it right. See below pulled from the profile of a 2019 who topped at 79 -- that is the 24th percentile and the class average in 2018 was 82 mph. In any event, PG numbers are probably a little high for a true average because I think they tend to see a higher proportion of players in the top half of all high school players.

2019Dad posted:

I don't think you're doing it right. 

Bummer.  I did a random sample of various players in each year and the numbers were consistent.

Francis7, 

Not really sure what the goal of this exercise is...does your son have statistics homework over the Holiday break? 

These numbers look extremely low for the high school players in our area.  If you are lifting PG numbers (assuming these numbers are for aspiring college baseball players) then I would do a bell curve of the top 10% with standard deviations.   Your average baseball talent and average baseball metrics calculations aren't going to mean much to a recruiting college coach.  Remember only about 6-7% of high schoolers get to the next level.   Most players that make it to the next level have a definitive skill set (pitching velocity, foot speed, bat speed, glove, etc...) that gets the coaches attention.  Make sense?

Francis, stop focusing on where your son fits in and focus on helping him be the best player possible. My son’s target was to be better than a previous player at our high school who was a ranked P5 offer, high draft pick out of high school. He didn’t end up better. But constant effort to get there made him the best player he could be. He also tracked him down and discussed the training techniques that got him there. 

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

"That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?"

No. (But, it's harmless to have the info.) A kid three years from graduating HS may - or may not be - physically similar to a kid with a much better stat. (As a 10th grader, S was 5' 5" 130 lbs, throwing 80ish. He hit college at 5' 11" 160 throwing over 90.)

What difference does it make what an average stat is? Your own eyes should be able to distinguish an average player from that top 10% who will play in college.

Skill development may follow an upward trending curve; skill development may come in fits and starts; skill development may even have periods of downward slope. Puberty, maturation, school, family issues, etc., all impact skill development. But the commonality? SKILL DEVELOPMENT! All you can really do is furnish the $$$, transportation, bats/gloves, and support, pushing when needed, backing off when needed. (But if using your time to gather these facts calms you, then do it! Just dont torture your son with it.)

"And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?"

Are you saying that if a kid doesnt have enough baseball skills to play in college he should not play HS? Obviously not. So, what difference does it make to your son if an average kid is trying his heart out to get better?

"Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?"

Assume there is a kid in the mythical top 10% of HS baseball skills. No doubt he got there with lots of help of various coaches - private, HS, travel, batting cage, etc. The entire recruiting system is designed to inform colleges/scouts about that kid and the system uses these sources as feeders of information to find that kid. NO KID WITH THOSE SKILLS GOES UNLOOKED AT; EVERY MEMBER OF THE ECOSYSTEM OF BASEBALL SKILL DEVELOPMENT IS INCENTIVIZED TO PASS HIS NAME TO THEIR RESPECTIVE CONTACTS. (That's how they get and keep customers. So, it's in their interest to get a qualified kid recruited.)

There are many paths/options for a player to be "found." Showcases,  travel ball, camps, HS, and more. It's not the exposure which creates interest; it's the combo of baseball skills and academics. If a kid has those, he will be found. (My undersized son didn't play any significant travel ball - ever; never attended a showcase; went only to a local D1 camp (×1), HF (×3), and Stanford (×2). He had personal lessons in the backyard of the local guru (three years, multiple times/wk), played two years of fall scout ball, and HS ball on a team which stuggled to field 9. He was recruited by literally dozens of schools and was drafted out of HS. )

Focus on what you can control - which are academics and baseball skill building. Research the rest to give you peace of mind  (which has alot of value), but try not to get caught up in the perpetual fire drill anxious parents go though.) (Which I went through, btw.)

It's really actually (in hindsight) very simple: (1) identify acceptable academic schools (go deep here as some schools treat their athletes as a subset of students, while other schools dont cut athletes any academic slack and thereby allow no academic "escape"), (2) identify schools where your S's baseball skills give him a legit shot for playing time. The points of intersection are the pond - once identified, figure which type of rod, bait, etc., is needed. There won't just be one school at the intersection- there will be many.

Also, FWIW, kids' tastes in potential colleges evolve. For us, S found NY city intimidating when he visited in 10th grade. That knoocked out any school in NYC. As a senior, he wished he had given NYC a greater chance. That's one reason a kid should visit as many types of colleges (big, little, city, rural, near, far) possible - to expose him to all and let him choise wisely. 

It’s not hard to tell where a kid fits in. It’s not hard to see if a kid is more talented than or at least fits in with his teammates or the competition. It’s not hard to see who throws harder, runs faster, hits better, etc.. It’s not hard to see who has instincts for the game. You don’t even have to be a baseball person to see this stuff. 

The part that separates the know nothing parent from a baseball person is judging the fundamentals.  But baseball peop0e look at lesser fundamentals and ask themselves what the player will be if they’re fixed. It’s why 90+ pitchers are always recruited regardless.

Another hint is what travel teams pursue the player. Even though my son and teammates were going to play for me through age fifteen (16u) they were pursued by other programs. That gave me validation my opinion of them was correct. At 17u they all ended up on the level of prospect team I expected. 

But regardless of all this the player should never stop trying to improve their talent and get bigger, stronger and faster. And at the right time they should have a business plan on how to get to the right college baseball environment. 

Francis7 posted:

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

I think you need to worry less about where you're supposed to be and focus more on where you're at. I'm sure the people giving you this info have good intentions and while they're not necessarily wrong, they're not right either. How all this info is accounted for varies by school, there is no one size fits all method that every school follows. 

Non-Skills you can't control. Height: genetic. Weight: unless you're scrawny or obese doesn't matter. Family history: Really? 

Non-Metrics are just the basics you need to be a successful HS player. Coaches don't look for this. If you don't have it they don't want/need you. Poor hitting mechanics, goodbye. Bad approach at the plate, seeya. Smoothness in the field, basic part of being a decent baseball player. 

Metrics: "If you don't have the metrics nobody is going to recruit you" is just not true. If you've never been to a showcase or a camp and don't have verified metrics, you can't be recruited? Some guys don't run the 60 well, but you show up to their games and they're great at tracking down balls and run the bases well. Some SS are only 84/85 across the IF, but have a very quick release to make up for it. Francisco Lindor was/still maxes at 85 across the IF. Look where he is. 

For coaches it is: Can I see this kid making an impact at our school? That is how they recruit. Not by exit velo, not by height, not by family history. Can he play and can he play for us? 

Back when my son was fourteen I was driving by the Villanova field. I stopped to watch one of their prospect camps. Every player had competent D1 footwork, agility and arms in the field. Then there was hitting. Only four of the thirty-six had D1 bat speed and swings.**

The moral of the story is you can have most of everything you listed and still not be a D1 prospect. Just work hard to be the best player you can be. For starters it will make for an enjoyable high school career. Don’t look past high school ball. You will be missing a lot. 

** confirmed by opinion of one of their pitchers I knew who was helping out

The thing to remember about PG statistics are that they are from EVERYONE! 

That time where your pitcher wasn't warmed up and they sent in the first basemen who threw 4 pitches at 65mph...yup, he's in those averages. 

That team that only played in one PG tourney because they aren't a real team, and just did it for fun, their top 2020 throws 70mph...he's in there too! 

How about that time you were playing the big huge prospect team and you KNEW you were going to get killed so you didn't bother wasting a real pitcher, you threw the kids that only get 4 innings a season on the mound....yup, they are in there too!

I don't mind anyone looking up metrics...but as with any data you have to see if the data is actually good.  It is not in this case.  Go to showcase data, then throw out the top 10% and the bottom 10%...you will get a better idea of true metrics.

RJM posted:

Back when my son was fourteen I was driving by the Villanova field. I stopped to watch one of their prospect camps. Every player had competent D1 footwork, agility and arms in the field. Then there was hitting. Only four of the thirty-six had D1 bat speed and swings.**

The moral of the story is you can have most of everything you listed and still not be a D1 prospect. Just work hard to be the best player you can be. For starters it will make for an enjoyable high school career. Don’t look past high school ball. You will be,issuing a lot. 

** confirmed by opinion of one of their pitchers I knew who was helping out

For all the talk about recruiting on this website, this is the best advice you will get. 

(last sentence I assume is a typo, YOU WILL BE MISSING A LOT)

It doesn't matter either way. Average players with average fastballs and average 60 times don't get recruited. Plus players with plus attributes do. It is better to look at the metrics from recruited players of schools he's interested in and go from there. 

Regardless, like others have said, you don't just say how do I get recruited once you enter HS. You need to stand out among other HS and travel players. See how you stack up against competition and then determine where he fits at the next level, if he's good enough. 

From my experience, it's more about finding the coach who values your particular set of metrics whether it be speed, contact ratio, intangibles whatever..I despise metrics such as exit velo..that tells me zero about what kind of overall ballplayer you are..in our situation when we visited with the coach he had our 2019s 60 yard showcase dashes on his laptop along with his own stopwatch and told us that it was a big factor in the recruiting of our boy..they value speed..some programs don't..so be it..avoid the rabbit holes where you don't fit..

Francis7 posted:

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

Francis, let me ask you a few questions...

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?

Where do you think he will project?

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?

What are his goals with regard to baseball?

The PG percentiles are based on the day which the player attended. For example; a player who attended in late 2018 will have worse percentiles than one who attended late 2017 with the same stats. As more players go in the system, it becomes harder to break the curve. The reason why fastball velocity has increased, is Jupiter. Every pitcher there throwing above 79 inflated it. Most people on the internet grossly inflate their kids measurable's, and are defensive when accused of doing so. It can be as simple as using a hittrax exit velo instead of a radar. Or a hand timed 60 instead of a laser one. Just look at the average PBR event and see 10-15 players 90+ off the tee; in a showcase of 150.

Anyone who downplays the importance of measurable's is being disingenuous, as none of the p5 schools seem to be taking anyone who lacks them. 

2019OF posted:

The PG percentiles are based on the day which the player attended. For example; a player who attended in late 2018 will have worse percentiles than one who attended late 2017 with the same stats. As more players go in the system, it becomes harder to break the curve. The reason why fastball velocity has increased, is Jupiter. Every pitcher there throwing above 79 inflated it. Most people on the internet grossly inflate their kids measurable's, and are defensive when accused of doing so. It can be as simple as using a hittrax exit velo instead of a radar. Or a hand timed 60 instead of a laser one. Just look at the average PBR event and see 10-15 players 90+ off the tee; in a showcase of 150.

Anyone who downplays the importance of measurable's is being disingenuous, as none of the p5 schools seem to be taking anyone who lacks them. 

I'm pretty sure PG goes by class average for that calendar year, not that day. So it will look something like 2019 class average in 2018. And you will see where you stack up compared to all the other 2019 grads in the calendar year. It resets at the new year. When it comes to  inflating those stats, they're entered by PG so nobody can cheat.

"Anyone who downplays the importance of measurable's is being disingenuous, as none of the p5 schools seem to be taking anyone who lacks them."

This isn't completely true. There are plenty of kids who committed without ever having attended a showcase where they could get these metrics verified. There are guys who committed to a program before they ever knew their exit velo or OF Velo. Without a doubt metrics are useful, but in game performance will always take precedent over showcase numbers. A kid can not train for the 60 and run a 7.1, but you go to his games and he gets great reads and tracks down balls in the gap well. He's clearly faster than that 7.1 and any coach who goes to one of his games will know that. Metrics help, but they are there to help get a foot in the door, not seal the deal. 

If the total goal is recruitment, you don’t need to know the average, you need to know where the metrics land for the top 10%.  Otherwise. Be the best you can be, strive to beat your own metrics and you will land where you land.

These are the numbers to shoot for (or better) when you reach the Summer of Junior year (based on 2018 Perfect Game National numbers)

Fastball: 90 MPH
60: 6.88 seconds
Infield Arm: 88 MPH
Outfield Arm: 90 MPH
Catcher Arm: 81 MPH
POP: 1.88
Exit Velo: 93 MPH
Max Barrel Speed: 70 MPH

fly996 posted:

These are the numbers to shoot for (or better) when you reach the Summer of Junior year (based on 2018 Perfect Game National numbers)

Fastball: 90 MPH
60: 6.88 seconds
Infield Arm: 88 MPH
Outfield Arm: 90 MPH
Catcher Arm: 81 MPH
POP: 1.88
Exit Velo: 93 MPH
Max Barrel Speed: 70 MPH

 

 

Fly996 - Great metric guidance.  I would add a couple things from my experience.  First, there are 60 times for corner positions and middle positions.  If, you want to play up the middle for an elite college team it doesn't hurt to be sub 6.5 fast.   Second, the fastball speed is important (gets your foot in the door) but the secondary and tertiary pitches are very important too.  The fastball mph gets your foot in the door, but the secondary pitches may determine if your foot remains in the door.   Depending on the college division level, the secondary or tertiary need to  be "show-me" pitches or "plus" pitches with a significant speed differential.  The recruiters that looked at my son looked at fastball mph & movement, but those secondary pitches were incredibly important in his continued recruitment because he could control them. 

Once you have a program interested, research their ballpark and dimensions.  Artificial turf teams tend to put an even heavier weighting on speed up the middle.   Teams with large center fields are going to put an even heavier weighting on speed.   Pitchers who can get swings into ground balls (because of their pitch variety) on artififical turf could get more interest.   Coaches know their field and what they are looking for.  Familiarize yourself with their need and tendencies.  

As always, JMO.

fenwaysouth posted:

fly996 posted:

These are the numbers to shoot for (or better) when you reach the Summer of Junior year (based on 2018 Perfect Game National numbers)

Fastball: 90 MPH
60: 6.88 seconds
Infield Arm: 88 MPH
Outfield Arm: 90 MPH
Catcher Arm: 81 MPH
POP: 1.88
Exit Velo: 93 MPH
Max Barrel Speed: 70 MPH

 

 

Fly996 - Great metric guidance.  I would add a couple things from my experience.  First, there are 60 times for corner positions and middle positions.  If, you want to play up the middle for an elite college team it doesn't hurt to be sub 6.5 fast.   Second, the fastball speed is important (gets your foot in the door) but the secondary and tertiary pitches are very important too.  The fastball mph gets your foot in the door, but the secondary pitches may determine if your foot remains in the door.   Depending on the college division level, the secondary or tertiary need to  be "show-me" pitches or "plus" pitches with a significant speed differential.  The recruiters that looked at my son looked at fastball mph & movement, but those secondary pitches were incredibly important in his continued recruitment because he could control them. 

Once you have a program interested, research their ballpark and dimensions.  Artificial turf teams tend to put an even heavier weighting on speed up the middle.   Teams with large center fields are going to put an even heavier weighting on speed.   Pitchers who can get swings into ground balls (because of their pitch variety) on artififical turf could get more interest.   Coaches know their field and what they are looking for.  Familiarize yourself with their need and tendencies.  

As always, JMO.

If, you want to play up the middle for an elite college team it doesn't hurt to be sub 6.5 fast.  

True. Amazingly about 12% of all players (which includes many Pitchers and Catchers) at National ran 6.5 or better.

Jerrion Ealy ran 6.13 (not a typo)

Summer of Junior year means rising Junior, correct?

Summer of Junior year means rising Junior, correct?

IE this upcoming summer is a 2021 graduates Junior summer.

cabbagedad posted:

Francis7 posted:

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

Francis, let me ask you a few questions...

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?

Where do you think he will project?

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?

What are his goals with regard to baseball?

That's a lot of questions 😎

fly996 posted:

These are the numbers to shoot for (or better) when you reach the Summer of Junior year (based on 2018 Perfect Game National numbers)

Fastball: 90 MPH
60: 6.88 seconds
Infield Arm: 88 MPH
Outfield Arm: 90 MPH
Catcher Arm: 81 MPH
POP: 1.88
Exit Velo: 93 MPH
Max Barrel Speed: 70 MPH

 

 

Thank you!

Francis7 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Francis7 posted:

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

Francis, let me ask you a few questions...

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?

Where do you think he will project?

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?

What are his goals with regard to baseball?

That's a lot of questions 😎

It's all the right questions.  Cabbage and others are politely trying to tell you that your focus is on the wrong things. 

When my son was a high school freshman the focus wasn’t on what college level did he fit. The focus was on getting bigger, stronger (he was 5’11” 135) and even faster. It was on improving his swing. It was about increased throwing velocity. Given family history and his progress to date i figured HA D3 was the floor. The rest was up to his efforts. I put it out of my mind. A player can screw up his high school career trying to translates what it means to college and place undo pressure on himself.

At the end of rising soph summer travel he was approached by 17u programs that place players in D1. I never thought where does he fit. It was all how can I help him be a better baseball player. When he came to where he fit (D1 or D3) our focus was always how can I be a better player.

Its true unless you’re a top shelf, potential high draft choice stud colleges don’t just find you. But chances are the local 17u teams know all about you from high school and previous travel against their lower age teams. 

Other than the top half of D1 programs it’s going to most likely be all about rising senior summer. The recruiting process ultimately drives most parents crazy. It drives the TUMS market. Don’t do it to yourself for four years of high school. 

RJM posted:

 A player can screw up his high school career trying to translates what it means to college and place undo pressure on himself.

our focus was always how can I be a better

. The recruiting process ultimately drives most parents crazy. 

In other words, work at being process-oriented (as opposed to being results-oriented).

Ironically, most parents of the top HS players are NOT process-oriented...

But their sons are; or at least they're working on it. 

Go44dad posted:

Summer of Junior year means rising Junior, correct?

IE this upcoming summer is a 2021 graduates Junior summer.

If he graduates from High School in 2021, it would be the Summer of 2020 that's most important for posting showcase metrics and travel ball performance. 

fly996 posted:

Go44dad posted:

Summer of Junior year means rising Junior, correct?

IE this upcoming summer is a 2021 graduates Junior summer.

If he graduates from High School in 2021, it would be the Summer of 2020 that's most important for posting showcase metrics and travel ball performance. 

I probably should have replied with your post of metrics.  Just trying to clarify.  Here is what I was commenting to...

Really good numbers to shoot for.  But they still gotta have skills, the coaches have to know they will stick in their school academically and they are kids that really want to succeed.

adbono posted:

Francis7 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Francis7 posted:

Where my son trains, they say that colleges look for 3 factors when evaluating a player:  Metrics, Non-Metrics and Non-Skills.

Non-Skills are things like height, weight, body comp and family history.
Non-Metrics are things like smoothness in the field, grit, approach at the plate, control on the mound, mechanics - things that require them to see you play, more than just once.

Metrics are things like exit velo, bat speed, 60 time, arm velo, etc.  These (according to them, in today's game) are the "easiest things to recruit").  You either have the metrics or you don't - and if you don't have the metrics, no one is going to recruit you.

That all said, doesn't it make sense to know what the baseline or average metrics are for your class?  And, if you're not close to being average, then don't waste your time thinking about playing in college?  Also, if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it then make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

Francis, let me ask you a few questions...

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?

Where do you think he will project?

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?

What are his goals with regard to baseball?

That's a lot of questions 😎

It's all the right questions.  Cabbage and others are politely trying to tell you that your focus is on the wrong things. 

Francis, Adbono probably sums it up pretty well but I will expand...

The questions are pretty simple.  They are specific for a reason.  You ask a lot of questions here, which is great - it is an amazing resource.  But the nature of your questions tends to be about things that are either out of the player's control or several steps ahead, depending on where your player is currently in the process.  Folks here can help exponentially more if they know specifics of the player's set of circumstances.  As RJM referred to, it's pretty easy to allow the process to ruin the HS experience (for the parent AND the player).   The intention of the questions is to help you avoid some of those pitfalls for you and your son.

I get it if you have reservations about providing the information on an open forum but if you are going to get full benefit of this resource you seem to want to tap into, at some point, you will probably have to.

Just getting back to this now.  Thanks to ALL for the great feedback, etc.  Sorry for the delay.  I haven't been in front of a computer much with the holiday break and I don't type well on the phone.  To the questions:

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?  YES.

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?  I DON'T KNOW.  I THINK THEY EXPECT THAT HE IS TRENDING TOWARDS COLLEGE BALL.  BUT, IT'S TOO EARLY FOR ANY DISCUSSION ON IT.

Where do you think he will project?  A LOT DEPENDS ON HOW HE DOES IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS.  AS OF NOW, I THINK HE HAS A CHANCE TO AT LEAST PLAY JUCO OR D3.  STRESS CHANCE.  HE WOULD NEED TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE, BE DEDICATED, ETC.  THERE'S SO MUCH THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS.  HE COULD INCREASE OR DECREASE HIS CHANCES. 

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?   BASED ON WHAT I SEE AND WHAT OTHERS TELL ME, YES.  FOR HIS AGE, AND STRESS THE RELATIVE CONTEXT, HE HAS SKILLS AND THE DESIRE AND THE COMMITMENT - FOR NOW.

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?
I ONLY KNOW WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD.  I DON'T TAKE THE MEASUREMENTS MYSELF.

EXIT VELO OFF THE HACK ATTACK IS 91 MPH.  (I HAVE VIDEO ON THIS.)  THROWING FROM CATCHER WAS TIMED AT 76 MPH THIS SUMMER BY THE HS COACH.  POP TIME IS 2.02, ACCORDING TO HIM, TIMED AT HIS FACILITY.  60 TIME IS 8 SECONDS FLAT.  AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND THAT HE IS 14 YEARS OLD.  BIGGEST WEAKNESS?  HE'S 14 YEARS OLD AND A HS FRESHMEN.  HE NEEDS TO PROVE MORE AT HIGHER LEVELS.  HAVE HIM PLAY WITH A BUNCH OF 14 YEARS OLDS, AND HE'S ONE OF THE BETTER ONES IN HIS AGE GROUP, RELATIVE TO WHERE WE LIVE.  BUT, IT'S STILL 14U BASEBALL.

What are his goals with regard to baseball?
IMMEDIATE GOAL - PLAY HS VARSITY BASEBALL.  LONG TERM GOAL - HE WANTS TO PLAY COLLEGE BASEBALL.  LIFE GOAL: HE WANTS TO BE A TEACHER AND A COACH.  HE WANTS TO BE LIKE THE GUYS WHO TRAIN HIM NOW.  THEY ARE MOSTLY TEACHERS DURING THE DAY AND THEY DO THE BASEBALL TRAINING AFTER SCHOOL AND ON THE WEEKENDS.

The only kid on my son's HS team who went P5 ran a 7.2/60, and had an exit velo of 84. His arm was OK. 80 inf. He had a decent glove, but nothing special. All these measurables were taken when he was 16/17.

Why was he taken by this strong program? He can hit the ball a long way, was a HS star, and he played on a  good travel team for years, which allowed RC's to see if he could actually play baseball.

According to what I read at times on this site, he didn't have a chance to get on at a P5. 

Either all of you guys have some fantastically talented kids, or you are exaggerating your numbers. I just want to tell the Dad's who have sons that do not run 6.6 /60's, or throw high 80's across the diamond, have 90+ exit velo's(really?), or have sub 2.0 pop times(all by the age of 15 , no less), that there is still hope, especially if your boy is one of those who can actually play the game.

Do you all drive 300 yds. straight off the tee? Catch monster fish, too?

Interesting 

Exceptions are made for mashers. But they better be potential college mashers. Not just high school mashers. The key was he played for a very reputable travel program playing top competition. He overcame the metrics on the field. 

57special posted:

The only kid on my son's HS team who went P5 ran a 7.2/60, and had an exit velo of 84. His arm was OK. 80 inf. He had a decent glove, but nothing special. All these measurables were taken when he was 16/17.

Why was he taken by this strong program? He can hit the ball a long way, was a HS star, and he played on a  good travel team for years, which allowed RC's to see if he could actually play baseball.

According to what I read at times on this site, he didn't have a chance to get on at a P5. 

Either all of you guys have some fantastically talented kids, or you are exaggerating your numbers. I just want to tell the Dad's who have sons that do not run 6.6 /60's, or throw high 80's across the diamond, have 90+ exit velo's(really?), or have sub 2.0 pop times(all by the age of 15 , no less), that there is still hope, especially if your boy is one of those who can actually play the game.

Do you all drive 300 yds. straight off the tee? Catch monster fish, too?

I would venture to say the kid you mentioned is rare.  I see a ton of kids with much higher metrics that are not committed at all, let alone to a P5.  Ive seen quite a few kids throwing 89-90 who aren’t either.  Maybe we just see it more in southern states but the metrics you say are lies are not unusual.

57special posted:

The only kid on my son's HS team who went P5 ran a 7.2/60, and had an exit velo of 84. His arm was OK. 80 inf. He had a decent glove, but nothing special. All these measurables were taken when he was 16/17.

Why was he taken by this strong program? He can hit the ball a long way, was a HS star, and he played on a  good travel team for years, which allowed RC's to see if he could actually play baseball.

According to what I read at times on this site, he didn't have a chance to get on at a P5. 

Either all of you guys have some fantastically talented kids, or you are exaggerating your numbers. I just want to tell the Dad's who have sons that do not run 6.6 /60's, or throw high 80's across the diamond, have 90+ exit velo's(really?), or have sub 2.0 pop times(all by the age of 15 , no less), that there is still hope, especially if your boy is one of those who can actually play the game.

Do you all drive 300 yds. straight off the tee? Catch monster fish, too?

Francis7 posted:

Just getting back to this now.  Thanks to ALL for the great feedback, etc.  Sorry for the delay.  I haven't been in front of a computer much with the holiday break and I don't type well on the phone.  To the questions:

Your son is an incoming freshman in HS, right?  YES.

The instructors where your son trains... what level of college ball do they see him at or project him at?  I DON'T KNOW.  I THINK THEY EXPECT THAT HE IS TRENDING TOWARDS COLLEGE BALL.  BUT, IT'S TOO EARLY FOR ANY DISCUSSION ON IT.

Where do you think he will project?  A LOT DEPENDS ON HOW HE DOES IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS.  AS OF NOW, I THINK HE HAS A CHANCE TO AT LEAST PLAY JUCO OR D3.  STRESS CHANCE.  HE WOULD NEED TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE, BE DEDICATED, ETC.  THERE'S SO MUCH THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS.  HE COULD INCREASE OR DECREASE HIS CHANCES. 

Does he fit the group you describe at the end of your post (if you're far better than average in your class, wouldn't it make sense to showcase and get yourself on the radar out there?   BASED ON WHAT I SEE AND WHAT OTHERS TELL ME, YES.  FOR HIS AGE, AND STRESS THE RELATIVE CONTEXT, HE HAS SKILLS AND THE DESIRE AND THE COMMITMENT - FOR NOW.

What are your son's measurables?  What are his stregths and weaknesses?
I ONLY KNOW WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD.  I DON'T TAKE THE MEASUREMENTS MYSELF.

EXIT VELO OFF THE HACK ATTACK IS 91 MPH.  (I HAVE VIDEO ON THIS.)  THROWING FROM CATCHER WAS TIMED AT 76 MPH THIS SUMMER BY THE HS COACH.  POP TIME IS 2.02, ACCORDING TO HIM, TIMED AT HIS FACILITY.  60 TIME IS 8 SECONDS FLAT.  AGAIN, KEEP IN MIND THAT HE IS 14 YEARS OLD.  BIGGEST WEAKNESS?  HE'S 14 YEARS OLD AND A HS FRESHMEN.  HE NEEDS TO PROVE MORE AT HIGHER LEVELS.  HAVE HIM PLAY WITH A BUNCH OF 14 YEARS OLDS, AND HE'S ONE OF THE BETTER ONES IN HIS AGE GROUP, RELATIVE TO WHERE WE LIVE.  BUT, IT'S STILL 14U BASEBALL.

What are his goals with regard to baseball?
IMMEDIATE GOAL - PLAY HS VARSITY BASEBALL.  LONG TERM GOAL - HE WANTS TO PLAY COLLEGE BASEBALL.  LIFE GOAL: HE WANTS TO BE A TEACHER AND A COACH.  HE WANTS TO BE LIKE THE GUYS WHO TRAIN HIM NOW.  THEY ARE MOSTLY TEACHERS DURING THE DAY AND THEY DO THE BASEBALL TRAINING AFTER SCHOOL AND ON THE WEEKENDS.

Cool, so I think the biggest takeaway is that, because he is like most 14 y.o.'s and not an early bloomer to the extent that he needs to jump on the early D1 recruiting cycle, you can put less focus and attention on the recruiting efforts (at least for a couple years or until he shows big leaps).  Aside from D1 P5's, most active recruiting from the schools doesn't take place until at least some time after sophomore HS season is played, usually after junior season or later.  So, take full advantage of that and relax a bit in that regard.  This also allows you to pay less attention to things like college/conference comparisons, Measurables of top players, program player comparisons, etc., at least until your son has come closer to reaching the point developmentally of showing what his potential will likely be and what pond he will likely be fishing in.  Yes, you could still argue some relevance to these things now but you are really just asking for unnecessary headache. 

Continue to support and encourage his efforts to be the best player he can be and continue to help put him in a position where he can play the highest level of competition he can while still really enjoying the game and getting ample playing time.   But don't worry yet about who is watching (from a performance standpoint) as he isn't near the player he will become when his body and skill set matures and he is truly recruitable.  

Great to see the awareness that there is so much that can happen in the coming years, on and off the field.  Also great to see that his immediate goal is being an impact player at the HS level.   I always add... it is so important that he enjoys the full HS experience and that you identify with him as the whole person he is outside of baseball.  Balance is huge, IMO.  Some day, there won't be baseball.  Whether sooner or later (and for whatever reason/s), you will want him to feel like he is a complete person when playing baseball is removed.

More unsolicited advice... as a parent, be the guy who fully supports the team (regardless of level) and ALL the other players just as much as you do your son.  It will make the HS days so much more enjoyable for you and your son.

Bringing this back to your original question in this thread...  based on his current set of circumstances, metrics of top players aren't relative because he hasn't matured to the point to where most of those are attainable, even with 1000% effort.  Metrics that are the average of a class aren't relative because average players generally don't make it to the next level.  The only metrics that matter are his current metrics and some that represent some reasonable short term goals for himself.