Coach Prime, HS recruiting

@PitchingFan posted:

I agree with show about Deion but his story of the kid this weekend who he hugged on the field and what he told him is incredible.  I will admit that most college coaches could not or would not do what Deion did at that moment with that young man.  It is interesting that with most coaches and that includes baseball that those who are not with the team think the successful ones are jerks but the ones who play for them think the complete opposite.  I think about most of the successful ones in the SEC  for baseball and that includes your sons and my son's coaches.  Most outside think they are jerks and egotistical and I can go on and on but their players and assistant coaches would die for them.  They are not always what they appear on camera for a glimpse.

I'm sure there is someone who has a story like yours about my son but he tries to sign everyone's each time but I'm sure he dismissed some kid on a bad or busy day.  Just hoping that was Deion's case.

I have no clue what you are talking about or what happened on the field with hugging a kid and telling him something.

I also have no clue why you keep bringing up anything to do with Florida. Even in a pm.  You seem to have a real problem because that has nothing to do with this topic. You should stick to Tennesse.

Actually, you and I were having a conversation on here and I mentioned my son and your sons coaches. No different than you mention Tennessee when talking to me. It is relevant. And I have heard people say my sons coach, the LSU coach, the Vanderbilt coach, and that team that plays in Jacksonville’s coach along with other highly successful coaches are arrogant.  I actually respect all of them and think they are great coaches, whether anybody else does.  Most successful coaches are considered that way by the fans of other teams.  And by the way, my son and I even talked about it on his podcast. He named that’s school in Jacksonville as his favorite place to play other than Hoover and Omaha, and Knoxville

Ok,so you are going by what you have heard, not actually had conversations with any of them except maybe Tony. And it appears you feel the need to bring it up often. Seems like you want to be a part of it all.

This has nothing to do with a man who gave himself the title of Coach Prime.

BTW, are you aware that there are folks on this site that are not Christians?  Son went to Clemson,  in 2004. Even then coaches were not allowed to lead the team in prayer, perhaps at Catholic schools.  One of the reasons why son decided Notre Dame was not for him.

I know parents from here whose sons left top programs because of the Sunday evening Bible Study Group. One was Jewish.

Just an FYI, mine is also. In all the teams he has been on no coach is involved in team prayer, which is usually not religious in nature.

Actually had conversations with all of them.  I have never called any of them arrogant.  I just said the same way that some are saying Deion is, the same has been said of these guys who are actually great guys.  Coach Prime is a great branding.  He has a great team around him that knows how to use social media headed up by his son.  They have branded, copyrighted, multiple names and sayings this week.  Normally when you don't know a guy personally, you just go by what you see and not what you know.  I knew Bobby personally.   I met Deion on multiple occasions.  You think I am just a normal persons but I have lived a full life and met a lot of what others would call famous people.  Most of them are just normal people who ultimately hate the limelight.  Some just embrace it for the show.

I am well aware that there are people on here that are not Christians.  In fact, I would believe that 50% of the population of the world is not Christians.  But it is who I am.  I have never forced it down anyone's throat but it does come up when I talk to people just like normally sports do.  It is who I am.

I've never forced a player to pray and never led prayer but I did allow my players to pray and most non-Christians will not walk away.  Player led prayer is not illegal ever like student led prayer is not at school.  And the last comment"which is usually not religious in nature." is just as religious in context as any of my comments on God.

I'm guessing your non belief in God will always be a reason that we will not agree on most things.  We just see the world differently.  The Bible says that two forces will always be at odds.

My comment about not religious in nature means there is no mention of Jesus, the father, the son, etc.

Please tell me where did I say that I didnt believe in God? Can you point that out to me.

I guess because I am not a Christian that's the way you think. Which is my point, if people dont believe in the same God you or others may believe in, it's considered that I don't believe in God.

@TPM posted:

My comment about not religious in nature means there is no mention of Jesus, the father, the son, etc.

Please tell me where did I say that I didnt believe in God? Can you point that out to me.

I guess because I am not a Christian that's the way you think. Which is my point, if people dont believe in the same God you or others may believe in, it's considered that I don't believe in God.

I’ve been hit with the “you don’t believe in God” because I'm Jewish. It’s insulting. Theyre saying if you don’t believe in Jesus you don’t believe in God. It makes me wonder if they understand the Old Testament versus the New Testament.

@Tres Elakes 24 posted:

So, the police officer beat himself up so he could get treated at the hospital?

Did it say Sanders attacked him first or was defending himself.  Standing his ground.

@RJM posted:

So, if someone says something offensive to you the correct response is to assault them? Being allowed to play maintained Sanders on a path of entitlement and arrogance which has led him to be the asshat he is today.

Read the article Whitlock wrote. He’s right. Sanders is full of shite. Sanders is a hypocrite. It’s not the path God chose for him. It’s the path Sanders chose due to the money and the potential professional football development and exposure benefits for his sons.

Who is Whitlock? As for Sanders choices, he does care what you and I think.  Never has and never will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ZfZbx2V2A

Someone who “doesn’t care what anyone thinks” isn’t constantly putting themselves in the spotlight, taking everything as “personal” and replying to every perceived slight.

Coach Prime will not go to the NFL. It’s a totally different job. The failure rate of college to pro for coaching is ridiculously high. Nick Saban couldn’t do it and he’s arguably the best college coach ever, and I hate Bama.

Sanders has won 3 games so far…. TCU good win but likely very overrated, a bad Nebraska team, and CSU in OT where they were favored by 20+. Let’s see how he does against USC and Oregon. As far as recruiting goes, unless they get their NIL in order like the other top teams he will not be able to compete with the SEC, FSU, most of the BIG. Sure, he’ll get a couple top kids every year but not enough to have quality depth to win big games consistently. His experience and attitude resonate well with HS kids, but so does a million bucks. He was also able to offer starting spots to just about any player willing to transfer in.

TBPT,

You always make a lot of  good sense!

There are many paths to great leadership. Deion's is one that is foreign to my experience with leaders and - occasionally - my sensibilities. Unsurprising, as we have had rather different life experiences :-)

My dad was a big boxing fan and a pretty conservative fellow - not a fan of Muhammad Ali, whom he called Clay up until the late 70s (Jabbar was Alcindor, etc). He would always unfavorably compare him to Joe Louis - his definition of a great champion, from his youth.

Late in his life we had a talk about Ali - he finally referred to him as Ali - and my dad explained why he didn't like his style and his talking. After a pause, he shook his head and said something to the effect of, "well, he was a great (*($#*(@ fighter, that can't be denied."

I'm reminded of that conversation when I try to sort out my feelings about Deion and what he's doing at Colorado. He appears to be a great (#$*&#@&* leader.

Face a good team and they get boat raced. The team is certainly better than last year, but they will be lucky to finish 6-6.

I love it. I guess no one made it personal…🤣

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Face a good team and they get boat raced. The team is certainly better than last year, but they will be lucky to finish 6-6.

I think they'll do better than that, but you are right - it's a ridiculously thin team, especially up front. Teams with Oregon's talent and size will be able to push them around this year.

USC - L

ASU - likely w

Stanford - likely w

UCLA - L

OrSU - L

AZ - w/l

WSU - L

Utah - L

Deion Sanders is a great leader and a great recruiter. Reminds me of a young Bobby Bowden, except Deion actually came from the same background as the kids he’s recruiting. His ability as a football coach is still questionable. His assistant coaches are meh. Charles Kelly was a terrible DC at FSU and they were loaded with talent when he took over. The team overall lacks discipline. Shedeur Sanders is not a great QB. Has a heck of an arm but his mechanics need a lot of work to be considered a prospect. He’s been working with some of the top QB gurus for years and still has that huge wind up that isn’t going to make it in the NFL. Very few P5 teams offered him. Speculation with his Alabama offer included dad taking a role on the staff.  The O line, yikes. Every team they play the rest of the year is going to blitz like crazy. No way they have time to let receivers get downfield.

Is their 2023 recruiting and transfer portal sustainable? I doubt it. They brought in 80+ new kids and 50+ on ships. I think he gets 5 or so blue chip kids a year which is nowhere near enough to build depth. If they get some big donors to their NIL and hire someone to manage it properly that could change. Kids will flock there if they can get the money and the coaching, but they will follow the money first. Even if they do figure that part out, it takes more than recruits to win. Look at Jimbo and TAMU. Best recruiting class in the history of rankings and they are still underperforming.

I loved watching Neon Deion/Prime Time as a kid while he was at FSU and throughout his MLB and NFL career. I love that he tries to teach these kids to be men while trying to win games. I hope he is successful. It is just way too early for me to buy into this hype. Dan Lanning nailed it when he said they play for clicks. Maybe that helps in the long run. We will see.

Lastly, I question whether he stays at Colorado, or any college, after his kids graduate.

The passionate disagreement here reflects my own internal conflict.  My own nature is to strongly prefer being low key, let my performance do all the talking, don't promote myself (if I get praise, let is come from others, not from myself), and when I do well, put my head down and not draw attention.  This is what I do at work, and I am sure that I left money and promotion on the table bec of this.

So what Coach Prime does naturally rubs me the wrong way (along with most of the celebration antics in football, and now in baseball).  I remember really liking DeVonta Smith when he was in Alabama bec he was the rare football star that does not do any of the crazy celebration when he makes a great play.  He just puts his head down and goes back to the sideline.

Having said these, I keep challenging and reminding myself that my issue with Coach Prime is bec of personal preference, that what he does is not necessarily wrong.  It may rub me the wrong way, but the diversity in our world is what makes it great.  I make an effort to not judge/criticize him in my mind, much less out loud in the public square.

I'm also wondering if what really irritates me is not as much what he does (even if rubs me the wrong way), but moreso how the public and media are reacting (or overreacting).

So at this point, I am going to stay quiet, and focus more on enjoying the excitement that he brings, and how college football is much more competitive in general this year (even though I am a UGA fan and wish they would 3peat).

I don't have a strong opinion on Sanders either way. I probably would have preferred he went about the move a bit differently but I also don't know football like I know baseball.

I will say this. I think more people have an issue with ESPN shoving Colorado down everybody's throat for the past month than they actually do with Sanders. You would have thought they beat the Broncos the way they were highlighting the Nebraska win.

That being said - football aside - I think they're annoying. Nobody can walk on their 50, but it's the first thing they do when they get to Oregon. The second somebody makes a mild comment "it's personal", but it's not personal when they go against a far superior opponent. "I'm here" but also it's the "worst they'll ever be". Wish they'd just play so I wouldn't have to see all the extra curriculars on loop on ESPN.

End of the day - Colorado is in better hands with him, he's more than capable as a coach, I think he will be successful. I just really don't care for a week of nonstop media to beat a bad Colorado State team in 2OT.

I agree with @PABaseball. The biggest culprit in this circus, by far, is ESPN. It’s a sinking ship that’s owned by a corporation that’s run by evil people. I respect some of the people that left. But plenty of rats are still there and they are shamelessly pushing an agenda that isn’t good for the masses. And ratings have dropped accordingly. Now ESPN has hitched it’s wagon to Deion Sanders in hopes that he will help the network regain it’s popularity. But it won’t work. It’s just another sideshow distraction. IMO a lot of the anger that’s being sent to Sanders is misdirected. It should be directed to ESPN and other media that are creating hype for their own perceived benefit.

What PABaseball and adbono just said accurately describes some of my thoughts.  I typed up something similar but I ended up deleting it as I'm not sure I was able to accurate convey what was in my mind.

Coach Prime definitely made a big impact in Colorado's football program, and deserves kudos and credit for it.  Yes, he and his team has a brashness (or confidence) they exude that can be off putting to me, but again, that may just be my different personality/preference.

However, what probably irritates and rubs people the wrong way most of all is that the hype, attention and praise Colorado is getting from the media (mass media like ESPN and social media) does not reflect their actual on-field performance and success.  They are not saying that Coach Prime and Colorado did not accomplish anything, or are not doing something noteworthy.  It's just that another team that has accomplished what they have done so far (but without a coach that has Coach's Prime's talent for publicity and hype) probably would not have been featured in College Gameday yet at this point.  And when people criticize and challenge the narrative, they get accused of making it personal or even racism.

This is just my observation as I have not really participated in the public conversation on this (this discussion in this board is probably the most I've shared my thoughts on this topic).

Next weekend will be the first time I’ve ever rooted for “the other team in LA” to win. I hope they put another 40+ on Colorado. It’s about my dislike for Sanders. Arrogant football teams are nothing new. Think back to the University of Miami teams when they were a powerhouse. But at least they were big time winners.

Every high school kid I've talked to LOVES Coach Prime.  In the end, that's all that matters because that's who he's recruiting.  Its not about the X's and O's, its about the Jimmy's and the Joe's.

Why the clown show will fail …

https://foxsportsradio.iheart....rado-will-soon-fail/

@Master P posted:

Every high school kid I've talked to LOVES Coach Prime.  In the end, that's all that matters because that's who he's recruiting.  Its not about the X's and O's, its about the Jimmy's and the Joe's.

They can love him all they want, but the NIL $$ is what they really love. They may have Colorado on their list now, but where they actually sign will mostly be based on where they get the most $$.

Getting players is certainly the biggest ingredient to winning, but you need competent coaches to have a gameplan that will maximize their abilities. Charles Kelly is not a good DC. Most of their coaching staff is actually not what I would consider above average. There are plenty of examples of programs with a blue chip roster and mediocre results. I'm not saying you can win without top talent, but I am saying you need coaching to get the most out of that talent.

Looks like Prime is going to lose out with a 6 game losing streak after losing to lowly Stanford while being favored by 13. The real MVP of this whole thing…. Probably his son who is a social media whiz. There are much better turnaround stories in college football but he was able to get them front and center no matter which platform you click on.

* I just saw his post game presser where he blamed the players. I guess that Louis must be looking more like

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Looks like Prime is going to lose out with a 6 game losing streak after losing to lowly Stanford while being favored by 13. The real MVP of this whole thing…. Probably his son who is a social media whiz. There are much better turnaround stories in college football but he was able to get them front and center no matter which platform you click on.

* I just saw his post game presser where he blamed the players. I guess that Louis must be looking more like

He said he need about 7 more Dawgs

It's always someone else's fault.

The other day Prime blamed having 8pm games.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

He said he need about 7 more Dawgs

He said a lot more than that. Told the players they don’t want it as bad as him, they’re not built for the moment. I’d say the coaches aren’t built for the moment either. The things he’s blaming them for come from coaching and preparation.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

He said a lot more than that. Told the players they don’t want it as bad as him, they’re not built for the moment. I’d say the coaches aren’t built for the moment either. The things he’s blaming them for come from coaching and preparation.

That's ok.  Its called motivating. Coaching goes but so far.  Up by 29 points, Players need to execute.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

That's ok.  Its called motivating. Coaching goes but so far.  Up by 29 points, Players need to execute.

Maybe he should try motivating Monday - Friday. This is on the coaches. So when they do well it’s coaching but when they suck it’s the players? How about not having your CB covering their best player go both ways.

They brought in 80+ players. There is no excuse. They recruited them and built this team culture. Maybe he should have called out his son for posting merch on his instagram during halftime.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Maybe he should try motivating Monday - Friday. This is on the coaches. So when they do well it’s coaching but when they suck it’s the players? How about not having your CB covering their best player go both ways.

They brought in 80+ players. There is no excuse. They recruited them and built this team culture. Maybe he should have called out his son for posting merch on his instagram during halftime.

Seems like you are Saturday morning quarterbacking.

Remember team was 1-10 last year.

Actually, I've never heard him say its only the coaching,  he might have said, we prep them to succeed, but they have to execute.

Also, he said he need 7 or 8 impact players

How do you know his son was posting merchandise? Doesn't Sanders have a son that does social media?

And if it was done at halftime vs on the sideline during the game, did it hurt his performance?

Isn't this a baseball forum?  Maybe let this run its course and move on to Fall baseball, winter portal, etc.

Where it applies to baseball is precisely the question of whether a team can be successful by bringing in a lot of transfers.  That was the Sanders question, and at the moment it is not looking like a huge success.

As we were discussing on the other thread (you provided information, CBI!), some baseball colleges are not bringing in high school students at all, just transfers.  It will be interesting to see, long-term, how successful those schools are.

I wonder if it's different for fall and spring sports?  At least transfers in baseball have the fall to settle in, practice, etc. with the new team.  Those football players got there in the summer and had to learn everything while playing games.

@anotherparent posted:

Where it applies to baseball is precisely the question of whether a team can be successful by bringing in a lot of transfers.  That was the Sanders question, and at the moment it is not looking like a huge success.

As we were discussing on the other thread (you provided information, CBI!), some baseball colleges are not bringing in high school students at all, just transfers.  It will be interesting to see, long-term, how successful those schools are.

I wonder if it's different for fall and spring sports?  At least transfers in baseball have the fall to settle in, practice, etc. with the new team.  Those football players got there in the summer and had to learn everything while playing games.

Can't compare baseball to football

What is the definition of huge success?  And what is the timeframe?  Again, Sanders stated that he needs about 7 or 8 dawgs.

Let's be realistic, they are better than last year's team.  More competitive.  Revenue is up.

It was known they had some deficiencies.

Next year they will get more talent, especially on the offense and defensive line.

At the skill positions, their goal is to get more depth.

As for baseball, it is getting older for many reasons. All which has been spoken about on this forum.  It doesn't mean it will continue, but that is the one of the paths schools are taking to fill rosters.

What will his excuses be next year? The lack of effort and focus is 100% on the coaching staff and the culture they brought in. The terrible defensive scheme is on the coaching staff. FSU had a roster full of “dawgs” and Charles Kelly managed to mess that up. You know how many schools offered him a DC position when Jimbo left for TAMU? Zero. Not one.

He brought in 80+ players and now just needs 7 or 8 more. Success? Not blowing a 29 point when favored by 13.5 would be a step in the right direction.

Yes, Colorado has a ridiculous increase revenue and a ton of new bandwagon fans (most of which are already jumping off). He and the media made the expectations unrealistic. Yes, they went from 1 win to 4. Are 3 more wins considered a success when you flipped the entire roster? There are guys who are doing a lot more with less.

Prime complained to the media during the week about 8pm start time with Standford, probably used the wrong wording in his interview and implied it was pretty late for his players to start a game.

Although one could agree about the start time, one article I read on ESPN mentioned that it obviously was no problem for Stanford players as they were used to staying up late studying for their exams!

I am pretty sure that there was a point trying to be made!

7 or 8 dawgs isn't going to fix the problem.  Don't blame losing on the kids who can't stay up late to play on a Friday night!

That's on Prime and his coaching staff. They really seem to have no clue on making adjustments. You won't win if you don't make them. Don't rely on your players to figure that out, it's not their job.

I agree with those that say it all seems like Sanders threw the team together so his son could have a better draft than if he stayed at Jackson.

Building a team, any team, doesn't happen overnight.

I am not really crazy about football. What I do love is watching how the coaches interact when the game is over, either with the other teams coaches or players whether they have won or lost and the humility at their press conference that comes after the game.

JMO

There’s a lot more timing involved between players in football than baseball. Turning over 80% of a football roster is going to be a lot harder to meld together than turning over 80% of a baseball roster.

Colorado has obviously improved. But I’m glad UCLA is going one way (Big Ten) and Colorado another (Big 12) so I’m not left exposed to Sanders’ horse manure every week in the paper for conference coverage.

The Prime haters are out in full force.  Just remember.  Any clicks are good clicks.

@PitchingFan posted:

The Prime haters are out in full force.  Just remember.  Any clicks are good clicks.

The above comment is out of line.

I open the thread because it has new posts.  The responses are hate pointed at Sanders.  What would you call it?   I call people who stir up hate toward a person haters on him.  Some have constantly talked hate about every aspect of the guys life on this thread.  If you don’t like him then say it once but they don’t have to keep coming back over and over to say they don’t like him which is hate.  In my world.

I can't speak for anyone else, I don't hate him, I dislike him. I always have.

Are you telling us what we can or cannot post? It's not like you have never had strong opinions on someone.

Using the word hate is pretty strong considering what's going on in the world right now.