Coach's Son

Trust In Him posted:

Bolts - what a journey.  Moving him around like a game of chess, for the benefit of the team.  Imagine in my son's case where in hs he was an infielder, D-1 puts him in the OF (last played OF as 12 year old), All-American all 3 years, now back in infield.  It should have made your son more versatile and playable wherever his journey takes him.  Trust in the process.....Sounds like he is well on his way, good luck

I agree with you about the process and versatility.  However, I think coaches need to be more invested in those players like Bolt's son who have placed faith in that coach AND who are good at their primary position.  Moving a player because he honestly thinks that would make him a better more appealing player is one thing.   The biggest problem I have with Bolts' story goes back to the comment my son made to me (in my reply to Bolts).  How good would that player be had he been cultivated as a 3rd basemen or SS (with other positions sprinkled in)?  Bolts' story tells me that the coach neither prepared him nor promoted him for the recruiting process.  I could be wrong, only he could tell us, but I'm going to bet that the HC had very little to do with the offers received (aside from answering questions when asked).  I'd also bet that the travel ball coached and program had more to offer in this regard... Just my guesses... 

BobbyBaseball posted:

....  If HS baseball doesn't wake up, it will soon be reduced to rec-league status, if it's not there already.

In many parts of the country, it's already there.

BobbyBaseball posted:

Trust In Him posted:

Bolts - what a journey.  Moving him around like a game of chess, for the benefit of the team.  Imagine in my son's case where in hs he was an infielder, D-1 puts him in the OF (last played OF as 12 year old), All-American all 3 years, now back in infield.  It should have made your son more versatile and playable wherever his journey takes him.  Trust in the process.....Sounds like he is well on his way, good luck

I agree with you about the process and versatility.  However, I think coaches need to be more invested in those players like Bolt's son who have placed faith in that coach AND who are good at their primary position.  Moving a player because he honestly thinks that would make him a better more appealing player is one thing.   The biggest problem I have with Bolts' story goes back to the comment my son made to me (in my reply to Bolts).  How good would that player be had he been cultivated as a 3rd basemen or SS (with other positions sprinkled in)?  Bolts' story tells me that the coach neither prepared him nor promoted him for the recruiting process.  I could be wrong, only he could tell us, but I'm going to bet that the HC had very little to do with the offers received (aside from answering questions when asked).  I'd also bet that the travel ball coached and program had more to offer in this regard... Just my guesses... 

BOBBYBASEBALL - BINGO. 

So many weird and inexplicable things happen in HS ball.  My son is playing OF this HS season on games that he doesn't start pitching.  Has not played OF since like 12U I think?  He's made a couple of plays, but those tweeners between RF and CF have been tough on him - at least one has been an error, but I really can't blame him.  He had literally no practice time or any reps - just told to go out there lol.  He is playing RF with a pitcher's glove - I kid you not.  It's kind of turned into a little badge of honor for him I think .  We refuse to buy him a new OF glove for the 3 or 4 weeks left in the season!  He will have no further use for it in college - will be a PO.  I'm just resigned to it now.  Keep smiling and hope he enjoys his last year of school ball.

3and2Fastball posted:

BobbyBaseball posted:

....  If HS baseball doesn't wake up, it will soon be reduced to rec-league status, if it's not there already.

In many parts of the country, it's already there.

That is a fact!  I would say in MOST parts of the country it’s already there. 

Well guys, as far as it being "already there", The vast majority of HS age top college (and pro) prospects are still playing HS ball.  Also, on average, more and more HS baseball players are playing near year 'round, getting private instruction and doing strength training/speed& agility work.  Sure, you can still find plenty of bad HS baseball but the world is more visible now.  

As of this point in time, the best players still play HS ball and the good players are generally better and more developed than they ever have been.  Could it shift more toward a travel alternative during HS season in the future?  Sure.  Do we know that the current recruiting environment is based more on travel?  Sure.  But we are not "already there" and keep in mind that most baseball fields in existence today are school property.  

I'll make a post about my child.  As a freshman, she came in and was the top pitcher in the school.  Coach put her in RF as well.  As a sophomore, crazy coach looked at the team and said that she was the best SS in school so he put her at SS and pitched her.  As a junior, coach put her in CF and then, when 1B couldn't field a ball, moved her from CF to 1B and still had her in the circle.  Then, as a she was finally allowed to play CF which is where she was getting recruited.  Well, that isn't exactly true.  Some teams were recruiting her as a SS.  One was recruiting her as a 3B.  One or two wanted her in the circle pitching.  IOWs, it seemed as if every time we talked to a college coach, they all saw something different in what she brought to the table and all wanted her bat.  Maybe if that HS coach had allowed her to play one position in HS, she could have gotten even more offers.  That darn HS coach ruined her but I needed her to play where my team needed her.  

BobbyBaseball posted:

Trust In Him posted:

Bolts - what a journey.  Moving him around like a game of chess, for the benefit of the team.  Imagine in my son's case where in hs he was an infielder, D-1 puts him in the OF (last played OF as 12 year old), All-American all 3 years, now back in infield.  It should have made your son more versatile and playable wherever his journey takes him.  Trust in the process.....Sounds like he is well on his way, good luck

I agree with you about the process and versatility.  However, I think coaches need to be more invested in those players like Bolt's son who have placed faith in that coach AND who are good at their primary position.  Moving a player because he honestly thinks that would make him a better more appealing player is one thing.   The biggest problem I have with Bolts' story goes back to the comment my son made to me (in my reply to Bolts).  How good would that player be had he been cultivated as a 3rd basemen or SS (with other positions sprinkled in)?  Bolts' story tells me that the coach neither prepared him nor promoted him for the recruiting process.  I could be wrong, only he could tell us, but I'm going to bet that the HC had very little to do with the offers received (aside from answering questions when asked).  I'd also bet that the travel ball coached and program had more to offer in this regard... Just my guesses... 

HS baseball is neither a recruiting service nor a player development service, it is a competition sport. I mean bolt's son was shuffled around but still in the lineup every day. The coach probably felt he can shift him around because he can hit and handle the shuffling.

I don't see an issue with shiffling players around, this increasingly happens in mlb too since teams now don't want to waste bench spots on bats and  rather have extra relievers and for that you need versatile players.

Also I don't think hs ball will die. Hs season is short anyway and everyone plays travel ball the  rest of the season.

Imo most important for development is hitting, if you are an athlete and not afraid of the ball you can play defense. 

Dominik85 posted:

BobbyBaseball posted:

Trust In Him posted:

Bolts - what a journey.  Moving him around like a game of chess, for the benefit of the team.  Imagine in my son's case where in hs he was an infielder, D-1 puts him in the OF (last played OF as 12 year old), All-American all 3 years, now back in infield.  It should have made your son more versatile and playable wherever his journey takes him.  Trust in the process.....Sounds like he is well on his way, good luck

I agree with you about the process and versatility.  However, I think coaches need to be more invested in those players like Bolt's son who have placed faith in that coach AND who are good at their primary position.  Moving a player because he honestly thinks that would make him a better more appealing player is one thing.   The biggest problem I have with Bolts' story goes back to the comment my son made to me (in my reply to Bolts).  How good would that player be had he been cultivated as a 3rd basemen or SS (with other positions sprinkled in)?  Bolts' story tells me that the coach neither prepared him nor promoted him for the recruiting process.  I could be wrong, only he could tell us, but I'm going to bet that the HC had very little to do with the offers received (aside from answering questions when asked).  I'd also bet that the travel ball coached and program had more to offer in this regard... Just my guesses... 

HS baseball is neither a recruiting service nor a player development service, it is a competition sport. I mean bolt's son was shuffled around but still in the lineup every day. The coach probably felt he can shift him around because he can hit and handle the shuffling.

I don't see an issue with shiffling players around, this increasingly happens in mlb too since teams now don't want to waste bench spots on bats and  rather have extra relievers and for that you need versatile players.

Also I don't think hs ball will die. Hs season is short anyway and everyone plays travel ball the  rest of the season.

 

Imo most important for development is hitting, if you are an athlete and not afraid of the ball you can play defense. 

I don't completely disagree with you... But I'll address your reply point by point:

1. "HS baseball is neither a recruiting service nor a player development service"  -  Not entirely true.  Many coaches are ALWAYS talking about the next level.  Everyone on this board knows that, although not a recruiting or development service, HS Ball is very integral in both (or has been in the past).  AND when a HS coach is coordinating (I'd call it meddling) with club sports, as in Bolts story, then that HS coach is taking on the roll of development and recruitment coordination.  Why?  Because scouts come to see you play, if you say your a 3B, but they always see you in CF, then.... they either walk away or put an asterisk next to your name.  If you adjust and say "I also play CF..." then maybe they come to see that... if they come to see you play and your at 1B... well....

2. "Competition sport [only]" - Then why are scouts calling HS coaches, MLB scouts attending games and why are their rules around outside instruction during the season in most states?  This is also the crux of the downfall...  Kids are looking to be recruited, developed and 'seen' in their primary positions.  If HS Ball doesn't understand their roll in the process, then why bother playing HS Ball?   Of course there's the school spirit, friends etc. etc...   but that VERY serious athlete with an eye on a prize and a plan to get there... not worth it.... At least that's where I see it headed.  HS Ball will ever die... your right.  But it may be dead to the stars, it was dead to Bryce, and many other up and coming.

3.  "Probably felt he can handle..... the shuffling" - Maybe so, and if it's strictly a competition sport and not anything else, then sure, why not.

4.  MLB Shuffles - Nope.  Not true.  You may have utility players or mid infielders swapping.  Perhaps a left fielder will play one of the other out fields but rampant swapping, no way.   You can name a handful of players that have the versatility to move all over, but in general MLB players have their positions.   Minor leagues are even structured so that certain players get x number of reps at certain positions...why?  because it's important to learn THAT position and become proficient in the nuances that various situations present.

5. Most important thing is hitting. - Agreed...   HOWEVER, any player unsettled in his baseball world, frustrated, angry, confused or losing confidence... well...  there goes the hitting.   So now you've really messed them up.

I'm not saying this isn't a manageable thing or that all players will fail when they get moved around....  It often comes down to HOW it's handled.  If it's a MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY kind of coach who shows no interest in the players desires, recruitment, development etc. then meddles in their club team because he wants to win at the expense of his players future (yes future), then I'd recommend the really good player with a shot... stay away.    Result: Rec league

As an FYI, a HS coach runs his team and program as he sees fit and for the good of all and not each individual.  If you don't like it, take your son off of the team or quit b...g.  Bobbybaseball expects a HS coach to give in to the whims of 18-22 players who have their own selfish goals without regards to the team itself.  He must have had a HS coach piss in his cheerios.  

CoachB25 posted:

As an FYI, a HS coach runs his team and program as he sees fit and for the good of all and not each individual.  If you don't like it, take your son off of the team or quit b...g.  Bobbybaseball expects a HS coach to give in to the whims of 18-22 players who have their own selfish goals without regards to the team itself.  He must have had a HS coach piss in his cheerios.  

I never said HS Baseball is bad or that anyone pissed in my cheerios...  I am saying that a good coach would communicate with his players, explain his philosophy and, in the process, address the players concerns about being recruited.   If coach is worth a dime, he's take an active role in promoting players and REALLY developing them to be successful at their new position(s).   That good coach also might have an idea how to construct a lineup based on the talent he has...   The Shuffle coach is the guy that has no clue on how to do that... so he just throws mud at the wall and see what sticks... 

If you read the thread, you might have gleamed that there are certain HS coaches that don't care about their athletes and AREN"T doing those things.  HENCE, HS baseball is going to give way to Travel/Club ball (when it comes to recruiting, development and talent identification).   Why???  Because kids ARE quiting and taking their bats and gloves elsewhere...  So you kinda made my point with that comment.

BTW, seems to me that about 70% of the threads here evolve around advancing to next levels by way of recruiting, scouting etc.   Seems to be a legitimate concern that is successfully being addressed outside of HS baseball.  All I'm saying is, maybe HS Baseball needs to evolve to.... errr..... COMPETE?

 or.. accept rec league status...  

I'm not calling for it's demise, just casting a light on the warts that are going to cause it.

I would say that most HS coaches focus on team preparation and on trying to win, and do not focus on player recruiting, other than answering the phone when a college coach calls.  In fact, I'm not aware of a single HS coach who prioritizes player recruitment.  This may be a regional thing, but at least in Southern California I believe this to be the case.  I have found this to be a good thing, and I've seen my son grow to love the "team" and "trying to win" aspect of HS baseball, something that is largely missing from travel/showcase ball.

Smitty28 posted:

I would say that most HS coaches focus on team preparation and on trying to win, and do not focus on player recruiting, other than answering the phone when a college coach calls.  In fact, I'm not aware of a single HS coach who prioritizes player recruitment.  This may be a regional thing, but at least in Southern California I believe this to be the case.  I have found this to be a good thing, and I've seen my son grow to love the "team" and "trying to win" aspect of HS baseball, something that is largely missing from travel/showcase ball.

I agree with you totally... 

The warts I'm talking about are all easily taken care of with good coaching, communication, player buy-in and follow through on what gets the players to buy in....  It's an interpersonal thing.  Every player wants/needs to know that they are part of a plan and that there is a plan for them.   When all that is settled and the player TRUSTS the coach, we can get to winning and having a great time.

I hear all the time that HS baseball is not for recruiting and that is mostly true but also false.  I have seen 20 pro scouts at games this spring to watch players and we are not in a strong region for pro talents but there is my son and we have played a few teams that have similar talent.  Thursday game had 8 college scouts at it to watch various players.  These scouts were from D1 to NAIA and JUCO.  So HS games are still being scouted.  One kid made the jump from 82-83 this fall to 88 this game.  He moved from on no one's real radar to many teams interested and I think he will get an offer this week if he has not already. 

A good coach is supposed to help his players but that is up to him how to do that.  At the minimum answer the phone and talk to scouts.  At the most, call scouts on his behalf.   But they are not expected to play a kid where he wants to play.  they play kids where they are needed to help a team.

My son who is P5 LHP played SS and caught his freshman and sophomore year because that was where he was needed.  Only made 1 error in two years at SS and worked hard to figure out how to throw to first moving toward third.  He also caught some and only had 1 player steal a base on him.  Did not help his recruiting at all but helped the team win District and was rewarded with All-State both years.  You do what it takes to help the team.  If there is an interested coach who wants to see a player in a certain position and you can do that without hurting the team, you do it.  But only if it does not hurt the team.  But I also would not let my high school coach tell my son where he would play in the summer.  The two are two separate entities that have to work together.

Bobby, I misunderstood and apologize.  I do talk to my players but have been in on their recruitment since most were freshmen.  The problem with coaching a HS program is that you have to have the best mix on the field with players who play for multiple teams at a given position.  I gave the example of what I had to do with my daughter.  In the end, I could not be selfish and play her where she was getting recruited.  

I will add another comment that was made to me by a former player of mine who's team went to state.  In the stands it seems as if when he played that parents wore the school's colors/shirts/clothing.  Now, it seems as if they are wearing their TB clothing and according to him, it is like a game long bragging contest about what TB teams their child plays on, who is on that team from other schools, ...  Then, he mentioned that he found it odd that parents were constantly on their phones contacting parents from other schools letting everyone know about how their child has done in the game.  I had not noticed that but did this weekend when my team played.  Sure enough, and I am coaching softball now, every time a player did well, a phone came out from that parent.