Coaches be honest on this one

You are right---stay out of it--you are not a coach here--you are a parent

It happens not only in baseball, but in many other areas of life.
We are finding that HS baseball in the KC area is not taken very seriously. If you're on the MO side, you get more games than we do over here in KS, but I still think baseball is not as organized or competitive as it should be by the time you're in HS.
You have already recognized that speaking up will probably not do any good. We just keep reminding our son that his coach is a teacher first and baseball comes second. Keep working hard and making the most of the opportunities you get. Believe me, good things come to those who wait and WORK HARD, both on the field and in the classroom. If your son wants to play college ball, you will need to do the legwork during the summer when he's playing more competitively. My son will be playing college ball next fall in spite of the HS environment. He actually learned a lot from the HS politics about how the real world will be. It has just made him stronger and more determined.

We had a parent come up with a similar question last year. He had a little book with all kind of stats in it, from summer teams and little league 4 years ago. My boss told the father, he bases his line-up on what happens everyday (practices) not on stats that may come from appearances in games that are mis leading. As it has been said a million times.
You can make numbers say whatever you want. There is only one mans' opinion that matters.

As a summer coach, things are a bit different. We don't practice like the HS team. Kids are from a larger geaographic area and it's tough to get them anywhere together other then games or trips. So yes performance in games can make all the difference.

I think as a parent it's tough to understand that there is a huge difference and actually no comparission between HS and travel baseball.
As a travelcoach you have the opportunity to select who plays in your program. Your team may have the best players from 10+ HS teams. Where as in some HS programs (like mine) we get 18 kids trying out for 14 spots and it's scary some years. We've had teams of 12 players. What happens in practice matters most in a 18 game schedule.

Thanks Coach M

I agree that kids that practice hard and show leadership should earn playing time. Shouldn't the playing time be limited, though, if they consistently are unable to perform in games that count?

This is a tough question. If a player wins the position based on what he does in practice day in and day out. (3 or 4 practices a week vs 2 or 3 games per week after 4 weeks of preseason). How does he lose the job. We always say someone has to take it from you and this has to be done during practice time. That's what parents don't see. Player "B" may be talented but is late for practice, doesn't hustle, doesn't help set up or break down equipment, misses practice, goofs off and then just doesn't show well at practice. He gets a few innings in a game and does OK...
This is a tough call...

Missouri

Don't know if this is the case with you but if a kid plays football there is a good chance favortism can carry over to the baseball team.

Many Head Baseball coaches also coach football and at most schools the AD at that school is the head football coach. Enough said.

Wish it wasn't true but it sure happened at our school. We had kids that not only did not play select baseball they did not even play local rec ball. In other words the only baseball played was during the High school season but they were good football players.

Nothing you can do except play on a good travel team and go to showcases and get exposure and earn your scholarship that way. That is what my son did it all worked out.

Missouri BB

At times like this the following is appropriate for us baseball-aholics.

God, grant me the Serenity
To accept the things I cannot change...
Courage to change the things I can,
And Wisdom to know the difference.

I recommend deep breaths taken nasely and a folding chair in the outfield.

Good Luck

Ask yourself why Select ball got as big as it is and you'll have your answer. High School Baseball wasn't meant to solve every problem.

Tdad is right.

It is what it is.

I love the folding chair idea....many times I wish.....

My son is only in 8th grade but football players are already being shown favoritism. This year, in 8th grade basketball, is a good football player who never played B ball in his LIFE and he is on the A squad. And, how should I say it?, HE SUCKS! He got picked over 110 other kids.
Of course this is Texas, so it is no surprise.

I was prepared to go into a long one but then I read CoachMerc's second post and that seems to put alot in perspective. Sometimes a kid wins a postion, then does not execute or perform in games, then during future practices he leaves no doubt that he's first in line and no one seems to want to take his job. There will always be some talented kids that will not put in the extra work and part of their attitude can be fueled by a disgruntled parent. Now, is there favortism in high school sports? I am sure there is and I've seen some. But many times the favorites are those exact kids that hustle, come early, work hard, listen, respond and go on proving that they belong. I can only advise that you tell your kid to give his all, all of the time and do it with a good attitude. He may be able to earn some playing time by excelling above others at practice. OOPS, imagine if this was a long post.

Until they start holding HS coaches for winning (like they do football coaches) you will continue to experience this type of thing. I am sure no one in the HS administration cares whether the team had a sub 500 season.

Payoffs under the table are not our of the question either. I have heard stories of this type of thing happening.

Its real unfortunate - but I am sure it happens more than we realize.

Missouri...Disagree with a lot of websters on this one.

You are a parent and you know baseball.

There are plenty of coaches in high school that don't know baseball as well as some of the parents who watch the games.

Approach the coach and ask if you can talk with him about what you perceive is "favoritism".

Don't listen to the "NONSENSE" about "you're not there at practice and you don't see what goes on"....that is the classic defense for a mopey coach. Ask the kids that are there (not your son), and they'll tell you the truth about a situation.

A situation where you have to fight the battle for your son. If your son approaches this coach, it sounds as though he'd be upset and punish him more.

quote:

But many times the favorites are those exact kids that hustle, come early, work hard, listen, respond and go on proving that they belong. I can only advise that you tell your kid to give his all, all of the time and do it with a good attitude. He may be able to earn some playing time by excelling above others at practice.

Looks like exactly like one of those baseball coaching situations where the fact that you are the BEST BASEBALL PLAYER doesn't really matter...because everything else does.

If that is the case, then you shouldn't coach a baseball team but a "feel good" team of some sort.

WHAT ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's at least 80% politics.

BeenThereIl, until you know someone you shouldn't assume. I have been chastised in the past for playing all of my players and giving opportunities to kids that might not have gotten them otherwise. I am speaking from experience. I have met some, and I mean some, parents that know baseball sitting in the stands, but I've met a whole lot more that THINK they know baseball. They certainly won't ever admit that little johnny might be a dog a practice. My approach has always been to talk with kids, work with kids and try to get the most out of them. Some talented kids show up and expect to play, but after workng with them they know how to give it their all and they will undoubtedly play more often than a less talented kid. Anyone who knows me and the hours I put in and quality instruction I give to my kids would never put the word lazy in the same phrase with my name. There's nothing feel good about watching a talented Brat come along that can do no wrong and then he wants to play over all others because he can possibly hit at the high school level. I mentioned to others for their kids to work hard and have a positive approach and i'll stand by that. You go ahead and bark at the coach and see where that gets you. Instead of attacking someone else about a childs challenges, why not take the opportunity to teach the child how to be better than that. Now be carefull sitting way up there on your horse, you could break something when you fall.

Getting some different opinions now!

BeenthereIL is taking the "stand up for what is right" approach. I guess we can ask what the definition of "right" is. To me, "right" is to reward the hustlers with some playing time but don't penalize the better players with little or no playing time as long as they too practice hard and display good attitudes.

To me, the high school baseball experience should be about being fair to the kids but play to win. If high schools aren't playing to win, what are the state playoffs all about? Winning isn't everything in high school but if you have the talent, use it, it might be more fun for everyone.

In my case, I think the coach wants to win and thinks he can win but his favoritism has blinded his baseball sense.

Coach...you are right. I don't know you.

Too, you don't know me. Happy to share baseball and life's experiences with you at any time.

No one is talking bad about coaches who work to benefit the kids.

I'm talking about taking a kid out of the lineup who is a better player than anyone else because: 1)He wasn't real quick in cleaning up his dugout area; 2)Got to morning workouts at 6 (when he was supposed to) instead of 5:45; 3)Only sold $100.00 worth of chances or advertising instead of $200.00; and, 4)Couldn't make the Saturday morning pancake breakfast to work for the team because he was working to make ends meet at home.

If you intend to penalize a kid and play someone who can't play at the expense of someone who can, then make sure it is for "stuff" and not "fluff".

Been there, done that.

quote:

You go ahead and bark at the coach and see where that gets you

There you go, coach.

Preconceived notions and prejudice...even at your level.

-----

Agree...Linear.

I said earlier that this was a no win situation. it's another where each side can and will have a say and both are right. Yes...there are many coaches who know very little, coach because of the little extra $$$. I am aware of a few of these types first hand.

On the other side I know a few parents who have no problem telling you and anyone else around them how their boy is not playing because the coach has favorites. The truth is the kid has just not produced or progressed. We still have to hear that Johnny was a Little League All Star 2B....The player is just not that good but of course he's better then the one starting ahead of him.

The third side is the travel coach and yes, it's very nice to be able to pick and choose and have kids travel long distances to be a part of your club.

The fourth...I've never heard, nor do I know of any coach who took $$$ to play a kid. Lets talk only of first hand knowledge....I am aware of coaches that picked kids for the MOMS in LL drafts and that has been well documented..

From my small exposure and being on both sides of the fence (one who sat the bench as a senior and one who started as a sophmore)I would go somewhat with what has been said. I do know that playing football may have helped my "benchrider" make the team because the coach knew him from football. I do think that there were those that did not make the team because the coach knew their attitude from football. I don't fault the coach too much. As has been said - they are teachers all day first - then coaches. And they are human - they make mistakes. Many may have had enough "attitude" all day and like to work with and play those that make coaching easy. I would probably be one of these too.
Oh, and my "benchsitter" liked to just practice with the team while my "starter" works at it and has from around 12 years of age - hitting wiffles in the back yard, getting me to throw to him and play catch with him, work on his pitching with him, hitting off a tee (like 1/2-1 hour a day in the summer) etc.
Tim Robertson

I got you BeenThere. I have never liked the politics of it all, just be carefull of the confrontation, it may do more harm than good. If the coach being questioned here is a favortism player, a chat will not change that, IMHO.

Coachric,

Spot on.

Politics? Whats the answer? You know its just hard for me to discuss this. We pride ourselves on being honest and fair. We want to win. We put the nine on the field that gives us the best chance to win. Stats who cares. Summer , select , fall ball , showcase stats who cares. Who is going to give us the best chance to win. Ive cut the booster club presidents son. Ive cut a teachers son whos mom coached the varsity girls basketball team. Ive cut 6 Jrs and 3 Srs one year because they were lazy and wouldnt work. And Ill cut your son if he has a bad attitude even if he is returning all state and you coach the summer all stars. Now if this coach refuses to play the best players because he is playing favorites I would be in his office and I would ask him to his face why. I would want to hear it from his mouth why. Then I would find another place for my son to play if I felt he was doing this. If your not going to do this you need to quit talking about it especially around or in front of your son if you are. Because you will give him excuses and thats the last thing you want to do. And you will spend the four years of HS baseball one miserable man. You have 3 avenues to take. One be quiet and let your son battle and encourage him with positive positive positive reinforcement. Or confront the coach get it off your chest and then continue to be positive with your son. Or get the hell out now. I tell all our parents that I will meet with them if they have any concerns. But I will only meet with them about their sons situation and I would like for their son to be present. I dont have anything to hide and neither should this coach. Of course Im not going to have the same talk over and over. His response will tell you alot. And the way he handles the situation will tell you alot as well. Good Luck

Like anything else - the opinions on this are colored by what you experience IMO. As Coach Merc basically said - there are lots of different situations and lots of different personalities.

Over the last 10 years - I havent seen much of that stuff during the season.

However, when it comes to post-season HS awards - the politics get racheted up a couple notches.
And sometimes even more than a couple of notches - LOL

That has been my observations the last 10 years or so.

Coach May has laid it out pretty well. {It's a shame all coaches don't take his approach. Then there would be fewer threads like this.} Others have offered sound viewpoints as well.

My son has been fortunate to have good HS coaches and has been largely unaffected by politics. But I have seen some pretty stupid things at other schools where politics did play a major role.

Think it through & give it some time. No need to be in a hurry. And in the end, do what you believe to be best for your son in the long run. Sometimes we as parents can let frustrations push us into making quick decisions that might not be optimum in the long run.

Good luck.

One point I'd like to throw out to any parent when approaching a coach. For me it's talk about your own child. Don't compare him to anyone, don't talk down another player, don't talk stats, don't tell the coach he's wrong. As Coach May stated strongly....positive, positive, positive. Your there to convince the coach in front of your child why he deserves more...

Credibility folks. Once a coach has lost his credibility with the players he is done as so is the team. My oldest son was a senior on our team last year. He played 6 defensive innings and got 11 abs the entire year. He deserved to make the team because he has some power and we thought there might be some times we would need his stick in a pinch. It just turned out that others guys picked it up at the plate and thats just how it goes. This is a conversation I had with my 08 that started on our varsity last year as a Freshman behind the dish during his 8th grade year. "You better leave no doubt if you want to play boy. It better not even be close. Because if it is you loose. The last thing anyone is going to say about me or you is your on the field because Im the coach. Do you understand that?" I have three kids on my team that have played for me through AAU since they were 9 years old. I gave them the same speech and I meant every word of it. People can say whatever they want to say. But that doesnt mean it has to be true. Sometimes the kids that have it the toughest are the kids that everyone thinks have it made. I truly feel sorry for parents and players who are caught in a situation where the coach does not take the baseball as serious as they do. Where the coach does not understand all the hard work and dedication that has been put into the equation well before they have stepped onto that HS field. Another reason you have to make sure that his summer and fall baseball situation is a quality one. You can not pick your HS coach or HS program in most cases. But that is not the case in the summer and fall. Good Luck

Different game (basketball). Same problem.

When my oldest was a soph, the volunteer jv coach played his freshman son over my son at the 2 guard spot. His son was a better shooter by a few % points. My son shot the three at 38%. His son 41%. His son was extremely slow getting his shot off. Was very ineffective. His son was a very very slow turtle. He couldn't play defense, in fact, the defensive scheme was made to "hide" him. My son was an in your face defender, good passer, great role player assist guy. Would hit the open shot if he got it. Didn't need to score to play. Neither kid was the go to guy. In a 32 minute game, my son would be lucky to get 6 minutes most every game.

I visited with the coach and expressed my displeasure without my son knowing. The reason is I didn't want my son to "use it as a crutch". I wanted him to continue to compete without "more politics". I told the coach my son didn't know I was talking to him and I expected the coach not mistreat him after this meeting.

Nothing changed. Even after our team was down 20 in the first half against a bigger school, when my son got a chance, he sparked the team with his defense, got some breakaways, brought the team back to a 4 point loss.

Next game, his son started. Mine rarely got to play. I asked the head coach of the program to step in.....nothing done.

Long and short of it is, my son started varsity as a junior and a senior. The jv coaches son NEVER played the rest of his career except for blow out games. Didn't even play when he was a senior.

So, you can say it worked out. Or you can say it cost my son valuable development time. Spin it how you want, but however you spin it, it is wrong.

And it is very prevalent.

I've done my share of coaching. And, I play to win. But, I can't look in the eyes of my subs and still feel good about myself, if I don't do everything I can to get them playing time.

I coach the whole team. Not just the good ones.

Lots of good insight on this one... Whether to approach the coach is a function of many things:
1. your kid's ability: is he significantly better than others playing
2. Your coach's temperment: is he approachable or not
3. Your options: travel ball,another spring sport
The last one begs the ultimate question: is playing high school baseball worth the agony some parents feel?
I would say no. Good players have other outlets to showcase their talents. Lesser talented players should accept high school baseball for it is: their final years of baseball. High school baseball is essentially rec league level in most places (there are some expections). Enjoy the the pride that comes from being on the team if you are not going anywhere after high school. Grin and bear it until summer travel/showcase season arrive if you are good enough to good places.

CoachMay,

Obviously - it should always be that way. I do know of some situations - back near my old homestead (thank god not our high school) - where the head coaches were routinely fired.

They were fired because school board members - and other prominent people involved in a particular high school - had kids that were on the team.

If the kid didnt play - the coach got canned.

Just the way it went.

Sometimes - it isnt as simple as it appears. IMO.

Linear it worked out for your son thats great. How many times have we seen the situation where a kid was on the all stars every year and other kids never made it. But then they get to HS and the all star gets cut and the other kids make the team. All the time it happens all the time. I had a player that never made the local rec team all star squad. I never heard of him untill he came to HS. He got cut from the Middle School team. The kid made all state as a JR and SR and played D-1 ball for four years making all conference two years and was named mvp of his team his sr year. Nothing I depise more than daddy ball and politics in sports. Kids just have to stay focused and away from negative people. The cream will rise to the top sooner or later.

Beenthere....I've read a lot of your posts and find you to be a very knowledgeable and astute poster. But I find a couple of your comments to be a little.....reactionary?

To say that "you aren't at practice" is "NONSENSE", is, well....NONSENSE!! Are you saying it doesn't matter how a player performs at practice? Or IF he performs at practice? If he shags it, talks back, dogs it or is disruptive and a negative influence? C'mon, you've got to believe that doing the right thing matters, especially in high school baseball. I don't think thats the classic defense of a mopey coach, I think it can be a valid statement of a coach who plays kids who EARN it over some players who think they DESERVE IT!

I tell my parents at the beginning of every season that I will talk to them about anything BUT their son's playing time. If their son is concerned about his playing time, he, as a 17-18 year old should be mature enough to come to me to discuss why he isn't playing. And I will be compassionate and honest enough to tell him why that is and what he needs to do to get playing time. I will only discuss playing time with parents if the player comes to me and then says that he didn't get a straight answer (which has never happened that I'm aware of).

I'm sorry Beenthere, but on behalf of coaches who I think are there because they want to be there, who want to teach and help young men, I'm a little put-off. I think a hardworking good kid who does all the right things will often play over the more talented kid who doesn't give it his all, all the time. Why? Because I know I can count on that kid, while the self-proclaimed SuperStar may let me down because of his lack of discipline.

As for the politics angle, I am just amazed by that. I am sure it happens, but I just can't imagine it. Why would a Coach sacrifice having a successful team just for "favorites"?....Again, I'm not disputing it happens, I just can't imagine doing it. I too have cut, to name a few: my nephew, 3 Seniors who had been on varsity as Juniors, one of my best friend's sons (TWICE!!!), and the son of the coach who coached ME in high school (27 years at the same school). I just happen to value attitude and hard work as well as God-given talent.

Itsinthegame ,
we know that school and situation well!!! I think they've had 4 coaches or so in 5 years. When they lost in the sectional final and the coach got fired...that was it. Wasn't it D's team that beat them?

Not sure if you knew it or not but in his contract, he had to meet and answer questions from parents for 30 minutes after each game. Any question they wanted, complaints, second guessing etc.. He was agood baseball guy.

Yes I am aware of situations like that. I have a friend that was told by the AD that his son needed to play more. He refused and was fired. I am lucky that our admin people are very supportive and let us do our job. I wouldnt have to be fired , the day someone else is going to tell me who to keep and who to play is the day I will find somewhere else to coach.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Linear it worked out for your son thats great.

I must not have made myself clear.

I don't call it "working out for my son" when he lost valuable development time.

It is wrong no matter what happened down the road.

CoachM,

Tough and unfortunate situation - and Yes - it was D's team that beat them.

(Both teams played their heart out - and D and Sean had a real back and forth fun battle that game.)

That coach should never have been fired. He did a great job with his program the whole year IMO.

I didn't say it was right. I just said Im glad it worked out for your son. Not all kids recover from something like that. In fact many don't.