If a kid is sitting on the bench he cannot have better stats than the kid in the lineup so comparingstats is meaningless, and I dont want to hear about what he did the last year on another team
Too many people sitting in the stands do not know the entire picture--- for our staff heart and hustle go a long way in their minds--getting into the lineup has nothing to do with cleaning out the dugout or carrying equipment bags-a lot has to do with player makeup-- the kid who stands next to you in the dugout during the game asking pertinent questions regarding the game situations-- the kid who wants the extra swings or grounders--the pitcher who asks you to stay after practice or a game to work with him in the bullpen for another 15 or 20 minutes so he can improve his game--- the catcher who wants to know what pitch to call in a certain situation--the catcher who tells you the pitcher is losing it, get someone up on the bullpen--
There is more than stats that get a player into the lineup and keep him there
Just my quarters worth
Agree with you TR...nice to know that you and your staff really appreciate all of the stuff that doesn't show up in the scorebook. Thanks.
gotwood
Personally I have always been that way-- As Kitty Kallen use to sing ""Little Things Mean A Lot" --- and you would be surprised that when speaking with college coaches about a player the little things do mean a lot to them
We have people ask why is that kid playing for you etc etc-- answer is very simple-- he plays the way we like kids to play in our program-- a small difference in talent means nothing when a player does the "lttle things" --
You win games with players who do the "little things"!
We also have the big advantage of selecting the player who we feel will play our way and fit into our program --
Personally I have always been that way-- As Kitty Kallen use to sing ""Little Things Mean A Lot" --- and you would be surprised that when speaking with college coaches about a player the little things do mean a lot to them
We have people ask why is that kid playing for you etc etc-- answer is very simple-- he plays the way we like kids to play in our program-- a small difference in talent means nothing when a player does the "lttle things" --
You win games with players who do the "little things"!
We also have the big advantage of selecting the player who we feel will play our way and fit into our program --
I agree with most everything everyone has said. The little things are important. And yes these are all just opinions. The only one that has any effect is the coaches because he makes the calls.
The stats I keep referring to are the offical team stats from last year. OK...let me give one example. This is just one example and one stat so don't jump on me too hard. The coach last year played a freshman on the infield. He finished the year batting .100 and probably had 15-20 errors during the season. There was another infielder, a junior (not my kid), that was an excellent fielder (at the same position) that batted .400+ on the JV squad for the year. Why not give the junior a look for 4 or 5 games? If he doesn't produce go back to the freshman.
The only explanation that I see for not playing the junior on varsity is that the coach wanted to groom the freshman. The junior is a good kid and not a problem player. All this junior got to do on varsity was pinch run.
This really bothered me because I think the team could have won another game or two with the junior. The coach is not a bad coach but I think he was just flat wrong in this case. Like I said this was just an isolated example. There are others. I'm sure he had his reasons and thought it was the best thing for the team but it didn't seem to work out very well.
JMO!!
The stats I keep referring to are the offical team stats from last year. OK...let me give one example. This is just one example and one stat so don't jump on me too hard. The coach last year played a freshman on the infield. He finished the year batting .100 and probably had 15-20 errors during the season. There was another infielder, a junior (not my kid), that was an excellent fielder (at the same position) that batted .400+ on the JV squad for the year. Why not give the junior a look for 4 or 5 games? If he doesn't produce go back to the freshman.
The only explanation that I see for not playing the junior on varsity is that the coach wanted to groom the freshman. The junior is a good kid and not a problem player. All this junior got to do on varsity was pinch run.
This really bothered me because I think the team could have won another game or two with the junior. The coach is not a bad coach but I think he was just flat wrong in this case. Like I said this was just an isolated example. There are others. I'm sure he had his reasons and thought it was the best thing for the team but it didn't seem to work out very well.
JMO!!
Missouri
Last years stats mean nothing this year--- I have seen kids hti 400 lat year and cannot even hit a fat 3-0 pitch this year
And vice versa
Also who kept last years stats?
Last years stats mean nothing this year--- I have seen kids hti 400 lat year and cannot even hit a fat 3-0 pitch this year
And vice versa
Also who kept last years stats?
You're right. This is a new year but I expect we'll see something similar this year. You know, the old dog new tricks thing.
I'm not sure who kept the stats. I think the bench coach did.
I'm not sure who kept the stats. I think the bench coach did.
Yep Yep TR
My Head Coach in college had a slogan for all hitters:
"Your only as good as your last At-Bat" RW-1987
This is one I just made up:
Statistics are just a measurement for history written in books, not a measurement of how a prospect looks. RS-2006
Shep's thought for the day
My Head Coach in college had a slogan for all hitters:
"Your only as good as your last At-Bat" RW-1987
This is one I just made up:
Statistics are just a measurement for history written in books, not a measurement of how a prospect looks. RS-2006
Shep's thought for the day
Stats can definitly be skewed by the stat keeper but I haven't met a college coach who didn't ask for them. All the college questinnaires ask for them.
Let’s all remember that the high school sports programs are an extension of the school programs. The playing field is an extension of the classroom, whether the coach wishes to acknowledge that or not. It is no different then the band room, the choral room, or 10th grade English.
Since when are English teachers unapproachable? Since when am I, the parent, not suppose to approach an Algebra teaching about the fact that my son is not able to do well in their class. Why are high school sports coaches deemed so autonomous? Why do so many coaches view that they are not accountable to the same scrutiny that the classroom teacher is?
Why are so many high school coaches permitted to display behavior on the field that would never be tolerated in the classroom? or restrict how much parents can communicate to them their concerns about their child, or how much parents expect to be told about their childs performance.
I hear from so many parents that they are never allowed to even ask a coach about their child’s’ performance or lack of playing time. Yet they agree that they would approach any other teacher at their child’s school and ask questions pertaining to their child’s level of involvement whether it is the music department, drama department, and art department.
It seems that educators are transformed when they leave the classroom and head to the athletic field.
While there are things like tact, and etique, and respect in the way parents approach HS coaches, no High School coach should be allowed by the admistration to refrain from discussing openly and freely his or her exact reasons for playing,or for not playing certain STUDENTS in that school sponsored program called HS Sports.
Since when are English teachers unapproachable? Since when am I, the parent, not suppose to approach an Algebra teaching about the fact that my son is not able to do well in their class. Why are high school sports coaches deemed so autonomous? Why do so many coaches view that they are not accountable to the same scrutiny that the classroom teacher is?
Why are so many high school coaches permitted to display behavior on the field that would never be tolerated in the classroom? or restrict how much parents can communicate to them their concerns about their child, or how much parents expect to be told about their childs performance.
I hear from so many parents that they are never allowed to even ask a coach about their child’s’ performance or lack of playing time. Yet they agree that they would approach any other teacher at their child’s school and ask questions pertaining to their child’s level of involvement whether it is the music department, drama department, and art department.
It seems that educators are transformed when they leave the classroom and head to the athletic field.
While there are things like tact, and etique, and respect in the way parents approach HS coaches, no High School coach should be allowed by the admistration to refrain from discussing openly and freely his or her exact reasons for playing,or for not playing certain STUDENTS in that school sponsored program called HS Sports.
Outstanding post CC. I was involved in 3 different school programs, and at all 3 the word came down from the AD, that parents and playing time were off limits. It seems to be one of those unwritten rules or etiquette's. I agree with you, however in my posts here I was stating facts of my own experience.
Catching Coach, I'm sure that most coaches have some avenue for communication with parents. Simply put, most parents don't want to go through those channels. For me, I'll meet with you anytime except before or after a game. Your son WILL BE present. Since you suggest we are are teaching values, I will have your son there since we are talking about him and I won't talk behind his back. Secondly, I will have the AD there. Hey, what I will say and what you will say will often be misrepresented. Your misrepresentation might cost me my job. Therefore, I will have a witness there. Beside, if you don't like the job I'm doing, why not air your grievances in the presence of my boss. This seems more than fair.
Some issues to think about:
Hey, that classroom has specific evaluation tools in place be it grading ruberics ... The measurements of who plays/starts isn't as scientific. I can converse on the Schlieffen Plan and the changes Von Moltke made in it prior to World War I and then subsequent advent of trench warfare. Most parents can't. Every parent is an expert and knows more baseball than I do even if they don't. Please note, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here some. Again, I will meet with any of my parents. Simply follow the steps as outlined in our Parent's Meeting.
Some issues to think about:
- If we are teaching values then why wouldn't you want your son to approach the Coach ((edited since I made a mistake here and typed kid and not coach in the original.)) with those issues that are bothering him? Why does a parent feel the need to interceed? Do you intend to interceed for your son the rest of his life should he have conflict?
- Suppose your son is making progress and despite that progress, you feel the need to talk to the coach. Now, your son has worked so hard that he now earns that starting spot. What is the perception? OH, I know you're going to say who cares about the perception but reality dictates that perception is very important. The perception is that your son is now starting because you have talked to the coach. This negates any and all positive efforts of your child to earn that start. You can bet your bottom dollar that the line to see the coach is now longer than some of the gas lines where the have "rollback prices."
- Since we are being honest, what are other consequences? Well Jon Jon, your Dad says ... is that 4 or 5 errors since we began infield. Not saying that this is right but I'm sure that your son will now be absolutely clear on why he isn't starting.
Hey, that classroom has specific evaluation tools in place be it grading ruberics ... The measurements of who plays/starts isn't as scientific. I can converse on the Schlieffen Plan and the changes Von Moltke made in it prior to World War I and then subsequent advent of trench warfare. Most parents can't. Every parent is an expert and knows more baseball than I do even if they don't. Please note, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here some. Again, I will meet with any of my parents. Simply follow the steps as outlined in our Parent's Meeting.
Thats why there's only one of you CoachB25.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
...
[LIST]If we are teaching values then why wouldn't you want your son to approach the kid with those issues that are bothering him? Why does a parent feel the need to interceed?.
Everybody knows the reason for this rule. It's the coaches crutch. His shield from accountability.
The coach is VERY intimidating to the player and the truth will not be spoken by either. The player will not be able to express himself therefore the coach won't have to answer tough questions.
Simple intimidation.
If you don't like the responsibility that comes with the job, leave it.
This is a really interesting thread.
I have only coached youth baseball, and don't pretend to know what it is like to coach high school and deal with parents at that level.
It does seem to me, however, that a coach could invite and encourage parents to communicate to him, and if it was really common for a coach to be talking with parents, then it would never be a big deal.
I do understand CoachB25's points, and think they are good ones. The question of a student not quite picking up algebra is inherently different than the question of why a player isn't starting. (That said, there are plenty of teachers who basically blow off parent concerns about their kids in class. I have seen this first hand.)
If I was a coach I think I'd set a policy that I'm happy to talk to parents about any concerns they have, but would prefer the player deal with me directly first. And if the parent DOES want to talk about playing time, be ready for me to be brutally honest.
I'm just starting out at this, my kid is a freshman. I've already seen PLENTY of parental discontent in the stands in youth BB. I don't imagine it gets any better in HS.
My inclination is to teach my kid to handle it by himself. I figure it's good life training.
I have only coached youth baseball, and don't pretend to know what it is like to coach high school and deal with parents at that level.
It does seem to me, however, that a coach could invite and encourage parents to communicate to him, and if it was really common for a coach to be talking with parents, then it would never be a big deal.
I do understand CoachB25's points, and think they are good ones. The question of a student not quite picking up algebra is inherently different than the question of why a player isn't starting. (That said, there are plenty of teachers who basically blow off parent concerns about their kids in class. I have seen this first hand.)
If I was a coach I think I'd set a policy that I'm happy to talk to parents about any concerns they have, but would prefer the player deal with me directly first. And if the parent DOES want to talk about playing time, be ready for me to be brutally honest.
I'm just starting out at this, my kid is a freshman. I've already seen PLENTY of parental discontent in the stands in youth BB. I don't imagine it gets any better in HS.
My inclination is to teach my kid to handle it by himself. I figure it's good life training.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
...
[LIST]If we are teaching values then why wouldn't you want your son to approach the kid with those issues that are bothering him? Why does a parent feel the need to interceed?.
Everybody knows the reason for this rule. It's the coaches crutch. His shield from accountability.
The coach is VERY intimidating to the player and the truth will not be spoken by either. The player will not be able to express himself therefore the coach won't have to answer tough questions.
Simple intimidation.
If you don't like the responsibility that comes with the job, leave it.
I guess this would depend upon perception. Of course, in your perspective, it is terrible that that type of coach is asking your son or daughter for that matter to grow up and speak for themselves. Linear, I'm sure that everytime your kids don't get their way, you're the first to step in whether they want you to or not.
BTW, note again that I believe all coaches have some avenue of communication. Heck I intimidate everyone so much that I let them have their say in front of my boss. Guess I intimidate him as well. Linear, so tell me, are you the parent that sits in the stands with his groupies telling everyone how everything should be done? You've commented on how you know more football, basketball and baseball than everyone else, so it must be a sight to see.
CoachB25
Great post and even better response to Linear,
We are a travel team and our coahces are always available for parents to talk with us but they know the channels and methods---we expect the player to be mature enough to talk with the coaches and express his concerns--we prefer that the parents cheer the team on and just be parents in the stands and the players know the story all too well.
We have had instances where a player saw his dad/mom talking with the coaches and the player asked what it was all about. They did not want their parents getting involved and flat out told us they will make sure that it wont happen again
Hey isn't it part of a coaches job to develop marure young men? He cannot do it if the parents are always stepping in and how do you think the boy feels among he is peers on the team if mommy/daddy is always on the coach about his playing time
The analogy with classroom teachers does not hold water for me--all too many refuse to stay after school or come in early to meet with you--yes there are those that do but there there are many that do not--think a minute and ask yourself how many of the HS teachers in you school show up at games of any sport--you get the picture?--many teachers do not have school spirit !
Simple bottom line here for me-- first of all I would never intercede on my sons behalf because they, as I , were brought up to handle their own situations. Second of all I am sure there are channels as set up by the coach and/or the HS athletic department. They are there for a purpose--use them
Great post and even better response to Linear,
We are a travel team and our coahces are always available for parents to talk with us but they know the channels and methods---we expect the player to be mature enough to talk with the coaches and express his concerns--we prefer that the parents cheer the team on and just be parents in the stands and the players know the story all too well.
We have had instances where a player saw his dad/mom talking with the coaches and the player asked what it was all about. They did not want their parents getting involved and flat out told us they will make sure that it wont happen again
Hey isn't it part of a coaches job to develop marure young men? He cannot do it if the parents are always stepping in and how do you think the boy feels among he is peers on the team if mommy/daddy is always on the coach about his playing time
The analogy with classroom teachers does not hold water for me--all too many refuse to stay after school or come in early to meet with you--yes there are those that do but there there are many that do not--think a minute and ask yourself how many of the HS teachers in you school show up at games of any sport--you get the picture?--many teachers do not have school spirit !
Simple bottom line here for me-- first of all I would never intercede on my sons behalf because they, as I , were brought up to handle their own situations. Second of all I am sure there are channels as set up by the coach and/or the HS athletic department. They are there for a purpose--use them
The politics of high school baseball is tough to take. The real issue that drives me nuts is that our school is a football school and our baseball coaches are football guys. Workouts and coaching philosophy all football based. It kills me when you see a guy being played in front of another because he is a stud on the football field or just because he is fast running back. If a kid is a better ball player, great, but I seen some put in positions they have never played in front of a quality player.
Luckily this hasn't happen to my son, he's still working his way up and waiting his time. He probably could be on the varsity but he doesn't play football and it suits me just fine for him to be the number one or two pitcher on the JV, for now.
Oh, and speaking of stats, our coach doesn't want them. I keep score on a PDA so I have all kinds of stats. He doesn't even want to see them, and that is when I'm scoring games for a team my son doesn't even play for.
Luckily this hasn't happen to my son, he's still working his way up and waiting his time. He probably could be on the varsity but he doesn't play football and it suits me just fine for him to be the number one or two pitcher on the JV, for now.
Oh, and speaking of stats, our coach doesn't want them. I keep score on a PDA so I have all kinds of stats. He doesn't even want to see them, and that is when I'm scoring games for a team my son doesn't even play for.
obrady
This same stuff goes on in college and in the minors--if a coach,for whatever the reason, doesnt like the player he can be done--no playing time--nada
It is called REAL LIFE
It happens in offices of big corporations as well where the boss may like one person more than another.
This same stuff goes on in college and in the minors--if a coach,for whatever the reason, doesnt like the player he can be done--no playing time--nada
It is called REAL LIFE
It happens in offices of big corporations as well where the boss may like one person more than another.
obrady, to be honest, I've never encountered that in our area. We have great baseball people as head coaches on our side of the river and I can't think of one that is a head football coach over here. I'm sorry that you've encountered that.
TR, you and I both know those kids that DON'T accept responsibility because their parents have coddled them. Later in life, those kids are going to learn some terrible lessons. You and I both see it often and I'm sure you feel for the kid.
Since Linear posted about his daughter and her coaches, I'll post about mine. My daughter started on her 7th grade basketball team for the first half of the season and then didn't start. She was never given a reason. She came home crying after the game where she figured out she wasn't a starter anymore. My Wife was furious and wanted me to talk to the coach. RIGHT? I told my child that I love her dearly but that I will never interceed if playing time is the issue. Be meaner, be tougher, grit your teeth and get in there and tear someone a new ******** and you will start again. Practice more, complain less, and know the offense and defense better than the starters and good things will happen. The next thing I told her is that whether she makes the team, starts, plays, or fails to make the team will NEVER determine my love for her. My love is unconditonal.
Either you can assist your child in growing up, be supportive and provide love or you can be the greatest deterrant in the development of your child.
TR, you and I both know those kids that DON'T accept responsibility because their parents have coddled them. Later in life, those kids are going to learn some terrible lessons. You and I both see it often and I'm sure you feel for the kid.
Since Linear posted about his daughter and her coaches, I'll post about mine. My daughter started on her 7th grade basketball team for the first half of the season and then didn't start. She was never given a reason. She came home crying after the game where she figured out she wasn't a starter anymore. My Wife was furious and wanted me to talk to the coach. RIGHT? I told my child that I love her dearly but that I will never interceed if playing time is the issue. Be meaner, be tougher, grit your teeth and get in there and tear someone a new ******** and you will start again. Practice more, complain less, and know the offense and defense better than the starters and good things will happen. The next thing I told her is that whether she makes the team, starts, plays, or fails to make the team will NEVER determine my love for her. My love is unconditonal.
Either you can assist your child in growing up, be supportive and provide love or you can be the greatest deterrant in the development of your child.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:...Heck I intimidate everyone so much that I let them have their say in front of my boss.
The fact that the AD is there is simply more intimidation. Easier to deflect tough questions.
A filter if you will.
Pure and simple, "I'm too good to have to talk with you about real problems." "Give me carte blanch".
Bottom line is you're the coach and you will play who you want, when you want. What you want to avoid is criticism. Even if it is just.
And the fact that you may have to face it (if that were the case) may keep you honest.
What is the REAL reason some coaches don't like to see stats? I realize that there are intangibles in players that may not show up in stats but if you're not looking at them you're not getting the full picture of your team. You're just going off of gut instinct and what you perceive in practice and in games. Example: One of my coaches from our summer team last year kept stats. He told me toward the end of the year that that one of our non-starter players batting average had gone over .400. I never would have guessed it. I knew he was playing better but I would have guessed he was somewhere between .250 and .300. We gave this boy more playing time at the end of the season.
IMHO this one of the jobs of a coach. Success should be rewarded in some manner otherwise you risk demoralizing good players and losing them.
I'm sure this will P*** off some of our coaching friends here but so be it. I think coaches that don't like to look at stats think to much of themselves and their ability to evaluate players game to game and practice to practice that they don't want to see anything that might prove their perception wrong. In other words they have the "what I see is right and what you see is wrong" attitude. I've also heard a lot that stats can be skewed and not tell the real story. I agree they can be off to some degree but it seems to me this is an excuse to not use them.
Have fun with this one. I have have thick skin.
IMHO this one of the jobs of a coach. Success should be rewarded in some manner otherwise you risk demoralizing good players and losing them.
I'm sure this will P*** off some of our coaching friends here but so be it. I think coaches that don't like to look at stats think to much of themselves and their ability to evaluate players game to game and practice to practice that they don't want to see anything that might prove their perception wrong. In other words they have the "what I see is right and what you see is wrong" attitude. I've also heard a lot that stats can be skewed and not tell the real story. I agree they can be off to some degree but it seems to me this is an excuse to not use them.
Have fun with this one. I have have thick skin.
Linear
I do not agree with regard to an AD being an intimidator
They can be a great asset if you approach the situation in the proper way--as I have stated here before, we met with out AD,Guidance Counselor and Principal the beginning of my sons freshman year in HS-- To this day the AD and I still talk and he sends us players--In fact the Baseball Coach at the school he is at now played summer ball with my son
It is what it is-- people and people--why do you have this chip on your shoulder reagrding coaches etc/ --is it because you could not "cut" it or their standards where not to your liking?
And please--for once answer the questions
I do not agree with regard to an AD being an intimidator
They can be a great asset if you approach the situation in the proper way--as I have stated here before, we met with out AD,Guidance Counselor and Principal the beginning of my sons freshman year in HS-- To this day the AD and I still talk and he sends us players--In fact the Baseball Coach at the school he is at now played summer ball with my son
It is what it is-- people and people--why do you have this chip on your shoulder reagrding coaches etc/ --is it because you could not "cut" it or their standards where not to your liking?
And please--for once answer the questions
Catching Coach
An excellent post!!! The sign out front reads BLANK BLANK HIGH SCHOOL, not BLANK BLANK BASEBALL ACADEMY. The mission statement of any school is preparing students for life AFTER they leave. Some people that work there don't get that. If a parent has an issue, then deal with it.
quote:originally posted by Catching Coach: While there are things like tact, and etique, and respect in the way parents approach HS coaches, no High School coach should be allowed by the admistration to refrain from discussing openly and freely his or her exact reasons for playing,or for not playing certain STUDENTS in that school sponsored program called HS Sports.
An excellent post!!! The sign out front reads BLANK BLANK HIGH SCHOOL, not BLANK BLANK BASEBALL ACADEMY. The mission statement of any school is preparing students for life AFTER they leave. Some people that work there don't get that. If a parent has an issue, then deal with it.
I don't think Linear will ever get it.
I can't believe parents would ever complain to a caoch.
CoachB is correct. Get out there and improve your skills until you earn your spot.
I have seen too many parents complain and the results have been worse than before.
I can't believe parents would ever complain to a caoch.
CoachB is correct. Get out there and improve your skills until you earn your spot.
I have seen too many parents complain and the results have been worse than before.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:...Heck I intimidate everyone so much that I let them have their say in front of my boss.
The fact that the AD is there is simply more intimidation. Easier to deflect tough questions.
A filter if you will.
Pure and simple, "I'm too good to have to talk with you about real problems." "Give me carte blanch".
Bottom line is you're the coach and you will play who you want, when you want. What you want to avoid is criticism. Even if it is just.
And the fact that you may have to face it (if that were the case) may keep you honest.
Real Problem? And what would that be = "Coach, you're playing someone other than my child." Of course, every other parent feels the same way and so, the real problem is that every parent of every kid not playing thinks that either politics, favoritism, or coaching stupidity has prevented their child from playing. Real problem? Define that. My son is better than Ralph and I have the statistics to prove it. I know these stats are correct because I kept them this summer and I didn't show any favoritism to my kid. (LOL) Now if "The Real Problem" is anthing that is harmful or dangerous then wouldn't a parent want to be able to present their case in front of the AD.
AD as intimidator? So you are saying that people want to complain but don't want to complain to that one person that really can make a change in who the coach is. Give me a break. BTW, we (coaches at our school) are hired each year and receive one year contracts. No one is guaranteed next year. In our system, during our coaching evaluation, any such issues ARE brought up.
Avoiding Criticism, another questionable comment. No coach can avoid criticism. It is a part of the nature of the beast. You accept it as fact and do your job the best that you can as fairly as you can. It's that simple. Of course, you have more problems with coaches and so, if this is a constant and consistent trend, you might want to consider looking in the mirror.
Maybe a way to fix the perceived problem is to ask the parents who the starting 9 should be. Sarcastic I know but maybe that would be the ultimate solution. Then the parents can complain to each other about the vote. Takes the het off the coach.Statistics are what they are. As a coach i saw my players everyday in practice. I knew what they were capable of. If other people did not agree with it so be it. there were times I had to deal with issues with them that were not related to their skill like academics or attitude or team rules. I had no problem benching a kid for things other than performance. dismissed three starters from the team for breaking team rules. I could care les what their batting average or ERA was. Of course as an old timer on this site that was close to 20 years ago. Could i do that today. I could but i think there would be a lot of fuss.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
The fact that the AD is there is simply more intimidation. Easier to deflect tough questions.
A filter if you will.
Pure and simple, "I'm too good to have to talk with you about real problems." "Give me carte blanch".
Bottom line is you're the coach and you will play who you want, when you want. What you want to avoid is criticism. Even if it is just.
And the fact that you may have to face it (if that were the case) may keep you honest.
Linear,
Sometimes I read your posts and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Really.
quote:...Real Problem?...
That's what I said.
I'm 2 for 2 with real problems. My son on his basketball team (playing time), which was clearly "a real problem", verified by what happened the following two years. And, my daughter who is spending 15-20 hours or so per week and learning absolutely nothing.
Real problems. Problems that adults should fix. Immediately.
Wow quite a hot topic.
Here's a few random thoughts, I realize that every situation is different and that there are 8 pages here already
1- On every team that I've seen there are always parents that think their kid should be starting over someone else...never fails!
2- The kid on the bench is he working as hard as the other kids, does he have the desire.
3- OK so ur not starting, are you working harder in the offseason to do what it takes, r u going to the off season training.
4- Instead of blaming the coach have you looked in the mirror.
5- OK you hit .450 in rec ball or someother league what was your average when you get rid of the questionable scoring that a DAD provided and the dribblers that barely touched the outfield grass. Can you move a runner over whne u need to.
6- Can you lay down a bunt when the coach tells you to
7- Do you hustle
8- As a parent r u living through ur kid...might be time to backoff.
9- Is the player a discipline problem.
10- In regards to favortism for football players or other sports that the coach coaches. Of course there is!!!!!!!! He knows the player, their work ethic, their commitment, their character. Heck look around you select ball coaches, Little League, travel etc... they all do it in some fashion...Businesses do it gov't does it...the kid might as well get use to it and deal with it. It's just a fact of life.
Hey my son has been on both sides, from middle school, little league or Babe Ruth and high school. The way HE addressed it was to work harder, and talk to the coach if he had any concerns about how HE could be a bigger impact for the team and help them win.
Are there idiots out there in the coaching ranks...absolutely, just like out in the stands everyone is an expert because they coached a 10 yr old team or watched a game on ESPN.
Here's a few random thoughts, I realize that every situation is different and that there are 8 pages here already
1- On every team that I've seen there are always parents that think their kid should be starting over someone else...never fails!
2- The kid on the bench is he working as hard as the other kids, does he have the desire.
3- OK so ur not starting, are you working harder in the offseason to do what it takes, r u going to the off season training.
4- Instead of blaming the coach have you looked in the mirror.
5- OK you hit .450 in rec ball or someother league what was your average when you get rid of the questionable scoring that a DAD provided and the dribblers that barely touched the outfield grass. Can you move a runner over whne u need to.
6- Can you lay down a bunt when the coach tells you to
7- Do you hustle
8- As a parent r u living through ur kid...might be time to backoff.
9- Is the player a discipline problem.
10- In regards to favortism for football players or other sports that the coach coaches. Of course there is!!!!!!!! He knows the player, their work ethic, their commitment, their character. Heck look around you select ball coaches, Little League, travel etc... they all do it in some fashion...Businesses do it gov't does it...the kid might as well get use to it and deal with it. It's just a fact of life.
Hey my son has been on both sides, from middle school, little league or Babe Ruth and high school. The way HE addressed it was to work harder, and talk to the coach if he had any concerns about how HE could be a bigger impact for the team and help them win.
Are there idiots out there in the coaching ranks...absolutely, just like out in the stands everyone is an expert because they coached a 10 yr old team or watched a game on ESPN.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:quote:Originally posted by Linear:
The fact that the AD is there is simply more intimidation. Easier to deflect tough questions.
A filter if you will.
Pure and simple, "I'm too good to have to talk with you about real problems." "Give me carte blanch".
Bottom line is you're the coach and you will play who you want, when you want. What you want to avoid is criticism. Even if it is just.
And the fact that you may have to face it (if that were the case) may keep you honest.
Linear,
Sometimes I read your posts and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Really.
At least it's "sometimes".
Just an example for you numbers people. This seasona recruiting coordinator for a Top 25 program was at a game. The player he's there to watch go 0-4 with 3 absolute bullet line drives all caught 1 by SS and 1 to CF and 1 to LF the fourth out was a one hop ground ball off the pitchers leg that bounced directly to the 1B. This was 4 quality at bats.
Another player went 3-4. A K, dribbler between the pitcher and 3B, a solid single through the infield (late swing) and another bloop just over the 1B head. This father went right up to this coach and asked what he thought of his son who had just gone 3-4. His response was "I didn't notice".
It's all a matter of perseption. A coach who sees a player day in and day has every right to play a player. It may not be that he doesn't pay attention to stats, it may just be that they're telling him something different then their telling you.
Another player went 3-4. A K, dribbler between the pitcher and 3B, a solid single through the infield (late swing) and another bloop just over the 1B head. This father went right up to this coach and asked what he thought of his son who had just gone 3-4. His response was "I didn't notice".
It's all a matter of perseption. A coach who sees a player day in and day has every right to play a player. It may not be that he doesn't pay attention to stats, it may just be that they're telling him something different then their telling you.
Linear,
LOL - You are right about that. It could be worse.
As for the bad coaches and AD's that you have encountered - just hang tough and dont let them get you down.
LOL - You are right about that. It could be worse.
As for the bad coaches and AD's that you have encountered - just hang tough and dont let them get you down.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:...Real Problem?...
That's what I said.
I'm 2 for 2 with real problems. My son on his basketball team (playing time), which was clearly "a real problem", verified by what happened the following two years. And, my daughter who is spending 15-20 hours or so per week and learning absolutely nothing.
Real problems. Problems that adults should fix. Immediately.
I don't understand the portion about "verified by what happened the following two years." Any success those two years doesn't verify anything. Many other factors have come into play. These would include, maturity, practice, ... So, the decisions made in any certain year by a coach might have been the best that year. I can't say because I wasn't there. If playing time is your "real problem" then every other parent is also right and so, perhaps we should go to some format that guarantees equal playing time for everyone to enable each parent to deal with the "real problem." Of course, you could be right and you are the only parent that's child deserved more playing time. Those other parents, heck they don't know what they are talking about.
Richard, it's certain we don't get along. I do hope for your girl that you are making the right decisions. I'm sincere in that. Just as I hope you feel the same about me and my decision to stay out of my girl's affairs. At 12, I expect her to speak up for herself because at 25, I'm not going to be there for her.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
I don't understand the portion about "verified by what happened the following two years." Any success those two years doesn't verify anything. Many other factors have come into play. These would include, maturity, practice, ... So, the decisions made in any certain year by a coach might have been the best that year. I can't say because I wasn't there. If playing time is your "real problem" then every other parent is also right and so, perhaps we should go to some format that guarantees equal playing time for everyone to enable each parent to deal with the "real problem."
There you have it folks. No set of facts can convince arrogant coaches that coaches do create circumstances that are completely wrong. Not just known to the parent in question. But known by everyone in the gym or at the park.
Yet, "his arrogance" can't see it.
What's worse than "his arrogance" not being able to see it, is the blind support they show for all coaches regardless of the facts.
At least Coach May acknowledges there are programs that are very poorly run.
The only thing I can figure out is if they didn't have lambs on the schedule, their winning percentage wouldn't be as good. So, they support the lambs................and in the process hurt kids.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
I don't understand the portion about "verified by what happened the following two years." Any success those two years doesn't verify anything. Many other factors have come into play. These would include, maturity, practice, ... So, the decisions made in any certain year by a coach might have been the best that year. I can't say because I wasn't there. If playing time is your "real problem" then every other parent is also right and so, perhaps we should go to some format that guarantees equal playing time for everyone to enable each parent to deal with the "real problem."
There you have it folks. No set of facts can convince arrogant coaches that coaches do create circumstances that are completely wrong. Not just known to the parent in question. But known by everyone in the gym or at the park.
Yet, "his arrogance" can't see it.
What's worse than "his arrogance" not being able to see it, is the blind support they show for all coaches regardless of the facts.
At least Coach May acknowledges there are programs that are very poorly run.
The only thing I can figure out is if they didn't have lambs on the schedule, their winning percentage wouldn't be as good. So, they support the lambs................and in the process hurt kids.
Facts? You give your opinion and call it fact. Is there any better example of arrogant? I see a poster claiming that his child is better. I don't see one concrete fact. Produce one and I will acknowledge it. So you discount that over the course of a year, your son might have improved his game? Arrogant? Produce Fact Richard, F A C T S! I'm sure you understand that concept - Fact something that is not opinion. Put down the pool cue and think some. Arrongance? I am smarther than the football coach. I am smarter than the the basketball coach. I am smarter than the baseball coach. I am ... Laughable.
FYI, I have often acknowledged that there are good coaches and bad coaches. Coaching is no different than any other segment of society. Find any profession and you will find good and bad. This applies to parents and players as well.
Lambs? Of our 35 games played, if you count double headers against teams such as Belleville West (25-8)... we played 28 of those games against teams with winning records. Factor in that those games included Tinley Park Andrew and Oak Forest from Chicago and I take offense at the Lambs comment. Also factor in that of these teams we played, 17 of those games were played against teams that made it to Regional Championship games. Of that, many won those games and made it to sectional championship games. Lambs, Richard quit showing your ignorance. It really is embarassing for you.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
There you have it folks. No set of facts can convince arrogant coaches that coaches do create circumstances that are completely wrong. Not just known to the parent in question. But known by everyone in the gym or at the park.
Yet, "his arrogance" can't see it.
What's worse than "his arrogance" not being able to see it, is the blind support they show for all coaches regardless of the facts.
At least Coach May acknowledges there are programs that are very poorly run.
The only thing I can figure out is if they didn't have lambs on the schedule, their winning percentage wouldn't be as good. So, they support the lambs................and in the process hurt kids.
So what?
It happens - and either you and your kids are strong enough to blow through it - or its over.
Noone is denying anything. You arent the first - nor will you be the last to go through things that arent fair.
Again - I ask - So what?
That simple Richard - IMO.
Are you strong enough to blow through the naysayers and the poor coaches you claim to have run into?
That is the only question that matters. IMO.
Do you have the "sand"?
The hsbaseballweb is a place to exchange ideas. Naturally, none of us are always right or wrong. It is what it is. Yes, I post stuff that might not be accepted by all and certainly not by posters such as Richard, as the right way to do stuff. Yet, I have the moxie to post it. Take anything I post with a grain of salt. Richard want to stoop to name calling ie. “His Arrogance”, because his argument is invalid. Opinions and facts are two different things. The topic here is for Coaches to post their honest opinions. This isn’t a topic calling for political correctness. Anyone that thinks any of us have all of the answers is simply a fool. Take what you like from all of us and discard the rest. I would ask you to discern fact from opinion. I would ask you to see into the agendas of all of us posters. I would ask you to then test your beliefs and retest them until you know what is right for you or your child. JMHO!
Just for fun let's take an impromptu OPINION poll.
There may be a better way to word these questions but here they are anyway.
Show your stripes and give reasons if you wish.
Question #1: What % of the time do high school coaches make a mistake and play a lesser talented and productive player over more talented and productive players? ____. (On average amoung the thousands of coaches)
Question #2: What % of parents are wrong when that feel like their son was passed over for a lesser talented and productive player? ______. (On average amoung the millions of parents)
Here is my opinion:
#1 5% (1 out of 20 or say one mistake for about every two high school teams)
#2 95% - 98% (i.e. 2 - 5 out of 100 have a legitimate grip)
There may be a better way to word these questions but here they are anyway.
Show your stripes and give reasons if you wish.
Question #1: What % of the time do high school coaches make a mistake and play a lesser talented and productive player over more talented and productive players? ____. (On average amoung the thousands of coaches)
Question #2: What % of parents are wrong when that feel like their son was passed over for a lesser talented and productive player? ______. (On average amoung the millions of parents)
Here is my opinion:
#1 5% (1 out of 20 or say one mistake for about every two high school teams)
#2 95% - 98% (i.e. 2 - 5 out of 100 have a legitimate grip)
CoachB,
Many great points IMO.
Just one note - I dont think there are many - at this point - that really care what Linear says. Being called "Arrogant" by Linear is not really all that bad IMO.
Many here have been called much worse by him over the last several years - including me LOL.
Additionally and in all fairness to Linear - maybe he has run into bad coaches. Who knows? It happens. But recognition of that means little.
Even a monkey can figure out when he isnt getting his banana after dinner. LOL
The only things that matters is how you react IMO.
Does he have the "sand"?. That is the question IMO. Does he have the sand - or just a keyboard to write cyber attacks and insults.
Sorry if this seems too direct - but as you say - it is what it is.
JMHO
Many great points IMO.
Just one note - I dont think there are many - at this point - that really care what Linear says. Being called "Arrogant" by Linear is not really all that bad IMO.
Many here have been called much worse by him over the last several years - including me LOL.
Additionally and in all fairness to Linear - maybe he has run into bad coaches. Who knows? It happens. But recognition of that means little.
Even a monkey can figure out when he isnt getting his banana after dinner. LOL
The only things that matters is how you react IMO.
Does he have the "sand"?. That is the question IMO. Does he have the sand - or just a keyboard to write cyber attacks and insults.
Sorry if this seems too direct - but as you say - it is what it is.
JMHO
The entire point, that "his arrogance" fails to acknowledge, is that situations happen that the coach is dead wrong. Situations created by adults that shouldn't be created. I could care less if you believe my facts or not. They are true. But, at least acknowledge that the scenarios exists across the country in all sports.
If you do, which you should or you are not only arrogant but dishonest, then your "meeting" rules should not exist.
Adults should not make these situations. But they do. And, adults should have the right to talk about them and they should be fixed.....on the spot.
One of our situations is long behind us. Doesn't mean it was right when it happened. If fact, if the school had a leader with a backbone, it could've been fixed. The right thing to do is the right thing, whether it fits the arrogant coach or not.
Our current situation is a litte different. My daughter could spend 4 years in her situation and never learn a thing.
Just as the algebra teacher who can't teach should go, so should the coach who can't/won't coach. Few of these people get evaluated on their "coaching" ability or knowledge. They get evaluated on how nice they are, do they show up on time, leave on time, and their willingness to do the job.
And, to say or insinuate that I can't talk to them is why problems like this still exist.
Hunker down. Circle the wagons. Defend the coach because he's the coach......even if the number of situations are very high.
Gutless.
If you do, which you should or you are not only arrogant but dishonest, then your "meeting" rules should not exist.
Adults should not make these situations. But they do. And, adults should have the right to talk about them and they should be fixed.....on the spot.
One of our situations is long behind us. Doesn't mean it was right when it happened. If fact, if the school had a leader with a backbone, it could've been fixed. The right thing to do is the right thing, whether it fits the arrogant coach or not.
Our current situation is a litte different. My daughter could spend 4 years in her situation and never learn a thing.
Just as the algebra teacher who can't teach should go, so should the coach who can't/won't coach. Few of these people get evaluated on their "coaching" ability or knowledge. They get evaluated on how nice they are, do they show up on time, leave on time, and their willingness to do the job.
And, to say or insinuate that I can't talk to them is why problems like this still exist.
Hunker down. Circle the wagons. Defend the coach because he's the coach......even if the number of situations are very high.
Gutless.