Good luck. A man who is willing to give his all to assist a few will be rewarded ten fold.
Sometimes I sits and I thinks, sometimes I just sits.
Good post Linear!
This site has discussed and argued the fact that HS athletics is a school function where no one part is bigger than the other. The select group goes to the select areas in the off-seasons. I think that mentality is what HS is all about, and I think with the time and resources available it is the only coarse of action available. It is frustrating butfine tuning individual skills I think are an outside the school responsibility of the player.
I know of situations that that the select kids get the individual coaching on HS teams, and while that individual may improve the team, top-to bottom is taught that "some are more equal than others. That is not a good HS lesson plan
You have the tools to make your daughter a better player, use em. Don't blame it on the coach or the system, it's a no win.
A tough call with your invloved though
This site has discussed and argued the fact that HS athletics is a school function where no one part is bigger than the other. The select group goes to the select areas in the off-seasons. I think that mentality is what HS is all about, and I think with the time and resources available it is the only coarse of action available. It is frustrating butfine tuning individual skills I think are an outside the school responsibility of the player.
I know of situations that that the select kids get the individual coaching on HS teams, and while that individual may improve the team, top-to bottom is taught that "some are more equal than others. That is not a good HS lesson plan
You have the tools to make your daughter a better player, use em. Don't blame it on the coach or the system, it's a no win.
A tough call with your invloved though
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
individual skills I think are an outside thew school responsibility of the player...
Except those schools that win every year.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:...You have the tools to make your daughter a better player, use em. Don't blame it on the coach or the system, it's a no win.
Yes I have the tools. My daughter doesn't want the tools from me. So, yes, it is our problem.
But, what if I told you the Algebra teacher didn't explain what a varible was, or the order of operations, or what grouping meant.
Do you give him/her a pass.
Why should any coach, not have to coach the best techniques available.
Linear that hurts because you are forcing the right but wrong answer from me. The situation you bring up are basic algebraic functions that you expect a teacher to teach. Is the BB coach not teaching basic basketball skills? If you want to go on to more complex algebra, you take the next class, same as basketball, you go to the next competitive level. You get out of a situation what you put into it. If your daughter wants to take the next step it's her move to make that step. If 12 other girls on that team are satisfied with where they are going I would call that a satisfied team. My bet is 70% of players on HS teams don't mind the level they compete at because it is a "school function". For a competitive person that's a tough pill to swallow.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
...If 12 other girls on that team are satisfied with where they are going I would call that a satisfied team...
So, if those twelve girls want to drink beer tonight it's ok?
Puhlease.
Where are the adults? Where are the standards? Why isn't every kid taught the fundamentals of every sport......then let the cream rise.
In my case, my daughter, short of injury or change of attitude about me coaching her, will star for this team for 4 years and leave school and not know the first thing about basketball.
Good thing there is no basketball ACT/SAT.
4 years, daily practices through the season,....no knowledge.
Linear, I'm a hoops junkie and have coached some as well. Just curious, does this coach have the knowledge to instruct those skills & simply chooses not too or is he clueless?
I have seen plenty of coaches spend tons of time on "team" things and ancient drills that emulate nothing a player does on the floor. They ignore the individual skills which is a huge mistake as a team is simply a group of individuals using their skills to help each other succeed as a group.
I think 80% of every practice at least should be spent on players improving skills, athleticism, and knowledge. Teach them how to play together while bettering their skills and you have a champion.
I have seen plenty of coaches spend tons of time on "team" things and ancient drills that emulate nothing a player does on the floor. They ignore the individual skills which is a huge mistake as a team is simply a group of individuals using their skills to help each other succeed as a group.
I think 80% of every practice at least should be spent on players improving skills, athleticism, and knowledge. Teach them how to play together while bettering their skills and you have a champion.
quote:So, if those twelve girls want to drink beer tonight it's ok?
Geez Linear and I thought we had a good converstation going.
Maybe your daughter not wanting your help is a message concerning your direction.
Later
First the jv coach and the varsity coaches are women. One played in college (jv coach). I don't know the background of the varsity coach, other than she has been at the school for 15 years or so. I only bring this up because you said "he" in your question. I have no problem with women coaches.......please send Pat Summitt to my high school.
Do they have the knowledge? Good question that I am trying to get to the bottom of by asking my daughter about what they do in practice. Don't always get complete answers.
I supplement what I get by sitting as close to the team during games as I can without looking like I'm overbearing. I do this to hear to the best of my ability, what is being talked about at time outs and what instruction is being given from the bench.
I can only conclude at this point that they have no understanding of the importance of fundamentals.
EXAMPLE1: On both teams, girls will catch the ball and instead of assuming the triple threat position they will stand erect. Shortly thereafter, their defender will be all over them, cause them to lean backward and they will either fall over, travel, or throw the ball away.
EXAMPLE2: No one knows how to do the defensive tings I mentioned above. They all know where to stand in their scheme and what their responsibility is.....but they have no knowledge of how to position themselves to be the best at that responsiblity. They do not know to "see the ball".
Do they have the knowledge? Good question that I am trying to get to the bottom of by asking my daughter about what they do in practice. Don't always get complete answers.
I supplement what I get by sitting as close to the team during games as I can without looking like I'm overbearing. I do this to hear to the best of my ability, what is being talked about at time outs and what instruction is being given from the bench.
I can only conclude at this point that they have no understanding of the importance of fundamentals.
EXAMPLE1: On both teams, girls will catch the ball and instead of assuming the triple threat position they will stand erect. Shortly thereafter, their defender will be all over them, cause them to lean backward and they will either fall over, travel, or throw the ball away.
EXAMPLE2: No one knows how to do the defensive tings I mentioned above. They all know where to stand in their scheme and what their responsibility is.....but they have no knowledge of how to position themselves to be the best at that responsiblity. They do not know to "see the ball".
quote:Originally posted by denisr400:
I think 80% of every practice at least should be spent on players improving skills, athleticism, and knowledge...
BINGO and thanks for your support.
quote:Originally posted by rz1:
[QUOTE]So, if those twelve girls want to drink beer tonight it's ok?
The point is you said if the twelve girls are happy then it's successful.
That is absolutely incorrect. Where are the adults? Where are the standards? Are we going to let the kids set the standards?
Sorry but your vision of high school sports turns the coaches into glorified babysitters.
And that is not what they are about.
Linear, I also know of a similar program in my area. There is no insruction of any kind for any of the players. No help during games or practices, no handouts, no videos, no camps or off-season workouts. No tips, criticism, ever. Zip, nada, nothing. Quite sad.
quote:The point is you said if the twelve girls are happy then it's successful
In High School sports, depending on the situation, maybe
But it is unfair for you to dictate your definition with their team. Where are the other parents? with you, and your thoughts, or as satisfied as their kids with the program direction?
This is a class 3 school out of 5. Most of the parents are very nice people and see things like I do. In fact, the junior, star of the varsity, and I say star with great reservation, her father is a school board member and he is thoroughly disgusted.
The JV team is 8-2 and the varsity is 7-4 at this moment. My point is, we have a winning record in out little region, but we have no shot at any post season accomplishments.
What does this say about high school coaching in general?
It is rather pathetic.
If Pat Summitt coached this team and if she was able to get her points across, this team would not have lost a game and would be very effective in the post season. That is what this former coach sees. That is why I wish there was a "coach evaluation squad" that was honest and kissed no ones back side.
These situations would not be allowed to exist.
The JV team is 8-2 and the varsity is 7-4 at this moment. My point is, we have a winning record in out little region, but we have no shot at any post season accomplishments.
What does this say about high school coaching in general?
It is rather pathetic.
If Pat Summitt coached this team and if she was able to get her points across, this team would not have lost a game and would be very effective in the post season. That is what this former coach sees. That is why I wish there was a "coach evaluation squad" that was honest and kissed no ones back side.
These situations would not be allowed to exist.
Coach May's earlier post about the great kid in a not so great program defines this school to a T.
Many many good kids........with no leadership.
Many many good kids........with no leadership.
As far as coaching is concerned you get what the district pays for and that usually has to be within the guidelines of the teachers union.
In other words, unless you found a gem in the rocks you can only hope at least you get a good role model.
Not a cut on HS coaches but a reality check.
In other words, unless you found a gem in the rocks you can only hope at least you get a good role model.
Not a cut on HS coaches but a reality check.
I personally take no $$ from the school (volunteer with benifits) however if you ever figured out what some of these coaches are paid and the hours they spend with our kids, I am sure it's below minimum wage. If this is one of the good coaches, understand they do it for the love of the game. If it's not one of the good one's then chances are no one else wanted it. High School coaching, it's not a job you take to make money. Teachers will do it as a suppliment or as part of their hiring to teach Phys Ed....At least that's common in our district.
The year I got paid to coach the freshman team, I purposely kept track of th ehours I put in - winter workouts, helping with varsity tryouts, frosh season, etc.
Worked out to be .85 /hr!!
I DEFINITELY did it for the money!!
MERC - You missed by earlier post, I think - congrats on hitting 500 - OLDTIMER!!
Worked out to be .85 /hr!!
I DEFINITELY did it for the money!!
MERC - You missed by earlier post, I think - congrats on hitting 500 - OLDTIMER!!
Both of you two are basically saying......not much can be done.
Which, I agree, except.
This is where I feel a parent has every right to approach this coach and demand better.
It comes across bad when it's a parent. Better done by someone who isn't a parent....but who would that be.
It would be very easy for me to attack the general lack of knowledge instead of my daughters playing time. I have no beef with her playing time..........well, if I was the coach she'd get less until she did things right. And, if I were to talk to the coach it would be more along the lines of less time than more time.
But I believe, fans who watch their sport on TV and watch it a lot have more knowledge of any given sport than a very high percentage that coach it at the high school level. Hell, a Cards fan, listening to baseball from Buck and Shannon for a period of time can do better than many high school coaches.
Which, I agree, except.
This is where I feel a parent has every right to approach this coach and demand better.
It comes across bad when it's a parent. Better done by someone who isn't a parent....but who would that be.
It would be very easy for me to attack the general lack of knowledge instead of my daughters playing time. I have no beef with her playing time..........well, if I was the coach she'd get less until she did things right. And, if I were to talk to the coach it would be more along the lines of less time than more time.
But I believe, fans who watch their sport on TV and watch it a lot have more knowledge of any given sport than a very high percentage that coach it at the high school level. Hell, a Cards fan, listening to baseball from Buck and Shannon for a period of time can do better than many high school coaches.
quote:Originally posted by windmill:
Worked out to be .85 /hr!!
I DEFINITELY did it for the money!!
So, that gives you the right to do a bad job?
Sell that to the kids.
You owe the kids the same effort as if you were being paid 6 figures. If not, get out.
IMHO, if the coach was as good as Pat Summitt, she wouldn't be coaching at the HS level.
Tim McCarver proves to me each time he's on TV how little he paid attention when not playing. 
There was a time in this area where Paul Blair was not given a HS coaching position because he did not have a 4yr degree. That was and I believe still is a requirement. On top of that you have to have CPR/First Aid and a Child Psych/protection class.
There are now positions for coaches (freshman) in at least 2 schools that I am aware of that don't have coaches for 06'and those programs may be dropped. Now parents will line up to complain that their child didn't make the JV because of the # of spots available and they could have been on the freshman team. i'm sure they would then take any coach.
Thanks Windmill
There was a time in this area where Paul Blair was not given a HS coaching position because he did not have a 4yr degree. That was and I believe still is a requirement. On top of that you have to have CPR/First Aid and a Child Psych/protection class.
There are now positions for coaches (freshman) in at least 2 schools that I am aware of that don't have coaches for 06'and those programs may be dropped. Now parents will line up to complain that their child didn't make the JV because of the # of spots available and they could have been on the freshman team. i'm sure they would then take any coach.
Thanks Windmill
Linear,
none of this gives anyone the right to do a bad job. It may be the best job that they can do.
Effort, ability and results are 3 seperate items. The coach may give all the effort in the world but may lack the knowldege as you state. No matter which, parents won't be happy. The only happy ones are those who's kids are playing. The team loses and the kids aren't happy.
none of this gives anyone the right to do a bad job. It may be the best job that they can do.
Effort, ability and results are 3 seperate items. The coach may give all the effort in the world but may lack the knowldege as you state. No matter which, parents won't be happy. The only happy ones are those who's kids are playing. The team loses and the kids aren't happy.
Does the school administration have the right to enable a bad job?
I believe in allowing a coach to develop. If, in fact, someone took the job was underqualified, because they had no one else, then two things HAVE TO HAPPEN.
1. He's interim until they find someone else.
2. He starts his education and puts in whatever it takes to get up to snuff as quickly as possible. If progress can be seen, he gets another year. If not, done.
Problem with schools is they are not interested in your childs complete education.
And, I'm not just talking sports. Look at the band at some of these schools. Look at the choir. Look at the organizations. Look at the teachers themselves.
Then look at how long they've been there doing a less than adequate job.
Look at the money thrown at education to fix it. Still hasn't happened.
Standards folks. Standards in all aspects are missing.
You know what is abundantly clear.......many teachers and coaches if they had to work on commission would be broke.
I believe in allowing a coach to develop. If, in fact, someone took the job was underqualified, because they had no one else, then two things HAVE TO HAPPEN.
1. He's interim until they find someone else.
2. He starts his education and puts in whatever it takes to get up to snuff as quickly as possible. If progress can be seen, he gets another year. If not, done.
Problem with schools is they are not interested in your childs complete education.
And, I'm not just talking sports. Look at the band at some of these schools. Look at the choir. Look at the organizations. Look at the teachers themselves.
Then look at how long they've been there doing a less than adequate job.
Look at the money thrown at education to fix it. Still hasn't happened.
Standards folks. Standards in all aspects are missing.
You know what is abundantly clear.......many teachers and coaches if they had to work on commission would be broke.
Who establishes the standards Linear-?
The fact your own daughter won't listen to your "teachings" certainly speaks volumes in itself--you appear to be a self proclaimed expert in basketball now as well as baseball
I truly cannot get over how you know so much more than everyone else
FOOTNOTE__ if the both the girls JV and varsity teams are winning the coaching cannot be all that bad
As I have said before Richard-- there is a real world outside "LINEARVILLE"--visit it sometime,that is if they will accept you
The fact your own daughter won't listen to your "teachings" certainly speaks volumes in itself--you appear to be a self proclaimed expert in basketball now as well as baseball
I truly cannot get over how you know so much more than everyone else
FOOTNOTE__ if the both the girls JV and varsity teams are winning the coaching cannot be all that bad
As I have said before Richard-- there is a real world outside "LINEARVILLE"--visit it sometime,that is if they will accept you
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
I truly cannot get over how you know so much more than everyone else
Look at the audience. That explains quite a bit.
Linear
Dont break your freakin arm patting yourself on the back pal--
Explain please why your daughter don't doesn't want to listen to you--
Also as usual you do not answer the question--who sets the standards?
Dont break your freakin arm patting yourself on the back pal--
Explain please why your daughter don't doesn't want to listen to you--
Also as usual you do not answer the question--who sets the standards?
linear...I resemble that remark!
Beenthere,
I don't know if Ed McMahon plays himself as good as TR plays him.
Or, maybe Barney Fife is a better example.
I don't know if Ed McMahon plays himself as good as TR plays him.
Or, maybe Barney Fife is a better example.
Linear
As usual you still refuse, or perhaps the better term is cannot, to answer the questions posed to you
As usual you still refuse, or perhaps the better term is cannot, to answer the questions posed to you
Hey Barney, you wouldn't recognize an answer if it was right in front of you.
WOW......
Gee it was actually quite an interesting conversation there for awhile....
Linear: are you still a public school teacher? (Or am I misinterpreting that you taught school as well as coached.)
Just interested in your impressions of teacher unions and their affect on education quality. My profession is in the arena of school reform (read: kill the unions.)
Linear: are you still a public school teacher? (Or am I misinterpreting that you taught school as well as coached.)
Just interested in your impressions of teacher unions and their affect on education quality. My profession is in the arena of school reform (read: kill the unions.)
Linear
I just love the degradation you hand out to everyone
Answer the questions put to you==why wont your daughter ask you for advice?-- I bet I know the reason
And who sets the standard?
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS
I just love the degradation you hand out to everyone
Answer the questions put to you==why wont your daughter ask you for advice?-- I bet I know the reason
And who sets the standard?
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Gee it was actually quite an interesting conversation there for awhile....
Linear: are you still a public school teacher? (Or am I misinterpreting that you taught school as well as coached.)
Just interested in your impressions of teacher unions and their affect on education quality. My profession is in the arena of school reform (read: kill the unions.)
No longer teach but did.
Unions suck.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
why wont your daughter ask you for advice?-- I bet I know the reason
My daughter wants me to be her dad not her coach. She wants me to tell her how good she is, not what she needs to work on.
And no, Barney, you have no idea what the reason is.
I see the same thing happening in our local high school. I have been watching this coach for 5 years,he has consistantly started seniors over better freshs,sophs,and juniors.My son goes to a private school so I have no dog in this hunt. It may be your coach is just a bad judge of talent. I agree it would do no good to talk to him, That has been tried here with no luck.
I have not read all 6 pages of replies.
SO I apologize if I repeated what has been said.
Just because the parents think that the better player is on the bench, does not mean that the better player is really on the bench.
There are lies, **** Lies and statistics.
Batting Statistics alone do not determine who is on the field. Who practices harder, their attitude, defense, leadership, hustle are some of the other things that I consider when setting a line-up.
SO I apologize if I repeated what has been said.
Just because the parents think that the better player is on the bench, does not mean that the better player is really on the bench.
There are lies, **** Lies and statistics.
Batting Statistics alone do not determine who is on the field. Who practices harder, their attitude, defense, leadership, hustle are some of the other things that I consider when setting a line-up.
Big, don't take this question to be sarcastic or flip. I appreciate your comments. But...how do you weigh better offensive production and better defensive play against someone with less of both but who practices a little harder and displays leadership more vocally than others? How do you know a kid who practices harder than the others (not to mean the rest of the team doesn't practice hard) and is more vocal translates to more runs for your team or less runs for the other team?
You may not have seen one of the earlier posts where I said any kid that busts his butt in practice deserves playing time. That does not mean you leave the better ball players on the bench most of the game (unless they have they have other issues like negative or otherwise bad attitudes, etc.).
You're not the first one to mention that statistics can lie but we stil keep track of them. Why...because they are meaningful. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean batting average is the only gauge of a ball player. But if a better all around player that never says a word in practice is significantly better statistically then one of my hustling team "leaders", the quiet one is going to play more.
You may not have seen one of the earlier posts where I said any kid that busts his butt in practice deserves playing time. That does not mean you leave the better ball players on the bench most of the game (unless they have they have other issues like negative or otherwise bad attitudes, etc.).
You're not the first one to mention that statistics can lie but we stil keep track of them. Why...because they are meaningful. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean batting average is the only gauge of a ball player. But if a better all around player that never says a word in practice is significantly better statistically then one of my hustling team "leaders", the quiet one is going to play more.
Missouri,
As I indicated I did not read all 6 pages. So I did not read all of you posts or the responses.
You keep saying that the better ball players are sitting on the bench, in whose opinion? Obviously the head coach believes that is not the case. I do not know of any head coach who is not going to put his best team (in his opinion) on the field. Maybe these "better Players" cop and attitude in practice, or don't put in the effort at practice. Maybe the player decided not to lay down a bunt when the coach called for one or decided to steal when the coach did not give the signal.
Whose statistics are you going by, the official team stats or a parents stats kept on the back of an envelope? I know some kids with limited at bats have better stats because they only get to face the weaker, non conference teams and their stats would not look anywhere as good if they faced the tougher teams day in and day out.
Hell, maybe the coach is a football coach and doesn't know a thing about baseball.
Clearly without seeing the players involved we cannot tell if your assessment is accurate or just sour grapes. All we get is your opinion of who is better. That is not an accusation, just a possibility because we simply do not know.
As I indicated I did not read all 6 pages. So I did not read all of you posts or the responses.
You keep saying that the better ball players are sitting on the bench, in whose opinion? Obviously the head coach believes that is not the case. I do not know of any head coach who is not going to put his best team (in his opinion) on the field. Maybe these "better Players" cop and attitude in practice, or don't put in the effort at practice. Maybe the player decided not to lay down a bunt when the coach called for one or decided to steal when the coach did not give the signal.
Whose statistics are you going by, the official team stats or a parents stats kept on the back of an envelope? I know some kids with limited at bats have better stats because they only get to face the weaker, non conference teams and their stats would not look anywhere as good if they faced the tougher teams day in and day out.
Hell, maybe the coach is a football coach and doesn't know a thing about baseball.
Clearly without seeing the players involved we cannot tell if your assessment is accurate or just sour grapes. All we get is your opinion of who is better. That is not an accusation, just a possibility because we simply do not know.