Coaches play to win

It was basically implied.  The school got all new dug outs and fences when he was on the team paid for by his dad.  He did that with all of his kids.  So the school made out in the deal.  So yeah it was implied.  

I don't disagree JP that it is rare, but just know it might not be as rare as you think especially in the big schools where you have 100's trying out for positions not 20's.  I agree coaches want to win and a parent and the player can't do anything if the coach doesn't want them on the field but if that is the case cut him and move on so they can move on.  Our school only had 24 try out so no cuts.  I will also say this we have a school nearby that has 2400 kid in grade 9-12 and ya know how many boys tried out 42.  That should be telling about the program.  No body tries out because they already know who will and won't make it.  Also, in the same school a golf coach cut all of his seniors even though several of them were better than the underclassman.  He did it because he was not going to have a good team anyway and wanted to give the underclassman experiance for the next year when he thought he would have a good team.  But that is High School sports for ya.  See a lot around here.  

Our HS baseball program has a budget that falls WAY short of needs, let alone nice-to-haves.  We could not survive without generous parents kicking in.  Some of the biggest givers over the last few years have kids sitting the bench currently.  It becomes very clear quite quickly that helping our program financially is much appreciated but does not translate into favored playing time.  We state it up front and stick to it.  Sometimes those players play (because they are the better players) and sometimes they do not (because they are not the better players)  Sometimes players are somewhere in between and when they do play, this is when the parents who are inclined to cry politics jump on their bandwagons.

 

I hoped you had taken away more useful information from your first posts last month.

 

But 42 out of 2400 kids come on that is a crazy number for that size of school.  The thing is they weren't that good of a team for that size of school.  The golf team situation is absolutely absurd.  When I said not that good, that is relative.  Their team still made it out of sectionals but lost at regionals  With the seniors I think they would have made it out of regionals.  So, he screwed the seniors.  Which is not right, YOU play the best kids not matter if they are a senior or a freshman.  At least in golf you can look at a scorecard.  There really isn't any way to say you are better than the other guy if your score is higher.  So cutting senior even though they are better just to build your team for the next couple of years then what do you do when they are seniors? logic doesn't hold water.  

Cabbage I am just saying it does happen.  It was a quid pro quo.  And it happens.  I am not saying it was hundreds of dollars but it was tens of thousands.  They had a lot of money.  And a school of that size should have really good teams every year but it does not seem to work that way.  Not sure why.  Everybody here seem to think shit doesn't happen kid don't get screwed by the coach the coach can do no wrong.  Just saying IT DOES happen.  Have seen it with my own eyes and my kid is not even the examples I am talking about.  So I have nothing invested. I just watch and listen.  

When my son was in 8th grade the new AD at the high school hired a new baseball coach. The previous coach (17 losing seasons in 20 years) was owned by the parents. The new coach would have nothing to do with parents. He went too far the other way. But it was easy to understand why. He spent the next two years weeding out cancers and kids who didn't work out in the offseason. Of course, this coach was accused of rampant favoritism. The parents tried to get him fired. My favorite line from the new coach was, "Sure, it's ok to go on vacation and miss two games. Turn in your uniform before you leave and miss all of them." The dad of the shortstop went nuts when my son (an 8th grader) was brought into several varsity practices. He was telling the shortstop his job isn't a lock next year.

 

My son played three years of varsity ball. I saw the coach get opening day rosters and lineups wrong all three years. But he had it corrected by game five. I probably knew more about the players than the coach from summer ball and more exposure seeing them in games.

 

One kid was in the starting lineup for four games his soph and junior year. I had this kid pegged as a player the coach overrated. He was a great practice player. After going O-fer  with nine or ten Ks in four games each year he would lose his position. He didn't try out senior year. The dad said it was because the coach plays favorites.

just  a follow up.  I am not saying it happens a lot.  I would say 99% of the time the coach is correct but say it never happens in statistically impossible.  

In that case stats don't lie.  Its pretty easy with that one on the stats.  K's are easy to understand.  Like you said the coach was owned by the parents so it does happen.  Whats worse is when the coach is someone that really doesn't understand the game.  Our softball coach was that way and the JV coach understood the game.  And this happened.  The JV softball team beat the V team Twice in one season in an intersquad game.  So it does happen.  

I think it needs to be a balance,  For all you coach here is a suggestion for you.  At the beginning of your season evaluate your players give them what they need to work on and what they are doing well.  Do this at the middle of the season and at the end.  This way the kids see and parents see what they need to do to get better.  Just a thought.  It will also make you look at the players to make sure your aren't missing something.  Just a thought

This is how it has been at my son's school also.  You don't play just because you contribute the most monetarily.

Sorry, I haven't read every post yet. 

 

We all know how important winning is. I'm sure everyone, especially coaches, want to win.  However, this importance placed on winning is a problem.  Truth is, and every truly great coach knows this, winning is not the "most" important thing!  In fact, in some cases winning can be the most stupid thing.

 

Coaches coach, players play, I favor those players that will do whatever it takes to win a game in a class manner. Those that will run through a wall.  However, it would be stupid to tell those players to go run through the wall.  why would someone allow a HS pitcher to throw over 150 pitches?  Or come back two days later to win another game? Might as well have them go run through the wall. The difference is running through the wall won't necessarily win the game, but that stud pitcher will.  Yes, sometimes winning the game becomes just plain stupid. 

 

I applaud the coach that takes his tired ace out of the game and takes the risk of losing.  That is the coach that knows how to win, in my book.  Those coaches that ride their horse straight to the operating table, might be a winner, but he is very much a loser in my mind.

 

Because of all this we sometimes end up with the wrong coaches getting all the honors. Then again, many of those with the most honors did things the right way.

 

Also from a coaches perspective... Making out that first game lineup usually involves a tough decision.  Most of the line up is easy pickings for the coach. The only sure thing is in someones eyes the coach is playing politics, has favorites, or is just not fair.

My guess is that any coach worth a darn will be evaluating their players daily, at practice, in games, etc.

PGStaff , the problem is that there are not many coaches that will do what you suggest.

I have told this on this site before.  Our district has no Middle School or Freshman Baseball.  When players are in 8th grade they try out for the JV.  Pass the test you are in for all 5 years.  Fail and you are done.  Yet this High School was the only one in America with 2 MLB all-Stars in 2011.

 

There were typically 75-100 kids from the middle school playing for 6-9 spots.  Most years the distribution went like this:

 

5 No brainer Makes

60-70 No Brainer Cuts

10-15 kids fighting for a handful of slots.

 

In 6 years I never saw a tryout for a single spot on the Varsity.  You literally made it at 13 or 14 or you never did.  There were 2 transfers that came in but that was it.  There was a number that walked away in Soph. and Jr. years when they got passed over and they realized they would not be playing.  The sad part is most years the 3rd best team in our district was the guys on our bench and the top half of the JV roster.  There were at least 4 guys that quit and never played that would have been 3 or 4 year starters at 25 of the 40 or so schools within a 30 mile radius of ours.

 

FWIW it was a Lion's eating their young culture.  Enormous pressure on the kids, and very unpleasant parenting situation with people almost openly rooting against the kids on the field so theirs could crack the lineup.  For a group that won close to 90% of it's games there wasn't a lot of fun in it.

 

But make no mistake the coach had the best team on the field and did not give a hoot about what the parents thought about anything.

Interesting.  Are you assuming that, or did the dad or coach tell folks that there was an agreement to trade dugouts for playing time?

It's mind boggling how so many continue to miss the point. Maybe the actual tweet (which is at the bottom of the OP) is gets getting skipped over.

READ IT!!

The point isn't whether coaches play to win. It's that players and parents are better off assuming that - rather than blaming politics.

Honestly - how can anyone atgue with that??

Jcg, it was just implied.  My company did some of the work.  Everything was implied and I am not sure if he got a lot of playing time but he did get some whether it was deserved or not I don't know he went to a different school and it was about 10 years ago.  I understand its hard to believe.  but that is what happened.  the money he spent I am sure his company wrote if off the man is loaded and I mean loaded. not just a millionaire but several times over multimillionaire.  

Jp,  I agree politics doesn't really factor in playing time it might in a few cases but in 99% of them it does not.  I have seen our coach not be a coach when he needed to be a coach.  This is what I heard from one of the parent who had a kid on our V team and was a starter and a junior.  Really nice kid and family and I believe every word he said.  One of the star players flipped the coach off and told him if F off with his back turned but load enough he heard it and not a thing was done.  If I were the coach the kid would have been suspended and the AD and parents called.  The worst part was I knew the kid and his parents and I know he was not raised to act that way.  I have more stories then that which is awful but stuff like this happens

I give up iron dad. You seem to be deliberately missing the point.

So keep sharing your stories.

But don't kid yourself about them amounting to a hill of beans.

Then you would have loved my son's HS coach.  Son's senior year the team is in the state quarterfinals, leading by 1 after 6 innings.  Our ace* (throws 94/95) has gone the distance to this point - but his pitch count is high (~125) and his control has not been the best (too many walks).  Coach has seen enough.  Trots out a reliever for the 7th inning.  All the team has to do is get three outs and its off to the final four.  Reliever strikes out the 1st batter.  One down.  Next one draws a walk (though IMHO that last pitch looked like a strike).  Next batter hits one to RF that is tailing towards the line but it will drop fair.  Right fielder dives and misses by inches.  Tying run crosses the plate - throw to the plate is just milliseconds too late.  Next batter hits blooper over SS - game and season over.

 

*Our ace had just been drafted by the Rays that very afternoon.

 

There were some that immediately question the coaches decision to take out the ace.  I know it was a tough decision, but I feel he did what he thought was the right thing to do.   Would our ace have gotten the last three outs?  Who knows?  Maybe.  Maybe not. But as the coach later said, "He (our ace) has bigger fish to fry."  The implication was "We win as a team and we lose as a team."

Love this story.  

 

I could see the pitcher throwing 125 P.C. toward the end of the season only if this was a rare occurrence.  

 

If it was my kid, having being drafted already, I would have already talked to the coach about capping his P.C. at 105.  

I'm not so sure that my son's coach plays to win.  At least he hasn't demonstrated such skill yet.

When he was "on", his pitch count rarely broke 100.  He pitched a perfect game (5 innings) in mid-season and I'll bet his pitch count that day didn't break 70.  Personally, I had no problem with him going 120+ pitches late in the season (remember this is post season) - kid is 6'4", 200 lbs, lanky and has a real electic arm (no, I'm not his Dad).  I've watched him play for years.  In HS he was a 5 tool player - one of a few.  Not only could he pitch, he could hit as well (7 HR's senior year).

 

Note about him being drafted - the Rays contacted him while he was enroute to the state quarterfinals.  His teammates were excited for him.  Now in his 4th season of MiLB (Upper A - short season) his velocity is unreal - up to 98 mph and has touched 100 mph.  When his parents learned of his draft, his Mom said, "Great, now go pitch."

Some HS coaches are simply idiots. There is no getting around it.  Sure they are trying, to the best of their limited abilities to win.  But frankly,  I've seen a number of them who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag.  it's easy to say from the sidelines, I know. And I'm not prepared to put any numbers on what percentage of coaches might be just plain duds. 

 

I'd be the first to admit that It's a hard gig. Lots of politics, almost no money,  entitled kids,  parents with blinders on, and in these parts parents who are used to being listened to and even sucked up to by most of the world.

 

 (I'll give you an example of what I mean by parents who are used to be listened to.  I heard from a  group of disgruntled dads at a rival school that they intend to go en masse to the local AD after the season to ensure that this years spanking brand new coach will not be around next year.   They are collectively pissed.  I gather that almost no one supports him.  This group includes, by the way, both dads of bench players and dads of players who fancy themselves college prospects.  Their team won't make it to the sectional playoffs for the first time in 7 or 8 years.  They could even be headed down to the B division of  their league next year, after a very long and successful run in the A Division.  They blame it all on the coach.  Don't know if they are right except that they are in fact far worse than they have historically been under the new guy)

 

I know  --- who wants to deal with that sort of stuff?  Nobody, of course.  And yes, I know that that makes it harder to find good, competent people. Indeed, a few  isolated  programs in these parts seem like they have a revolving door -- shuttling coaches through at a breakneck pace.  (Those are the exceptions rather than the norm, though).

 

Like I said some of this falls on the parents, the players, and the AD's.  But some of it falls on the coaches too.  Cause frankly some of them leave a lot to be desired, just qua coach.  Some are baseball idiots, or maybe they know their baseball, but they turn out to be small men with big problems, or maybe they're good guys, but they  just don't have  a clue how to get the best out of the often talented but sometimes, admittedly,  soft and over-entitled young men  one sometimes has to deal with in an area like this.

 

So I grant up front it's a complicated mess. Wouldn't try to absolve parents, players, administrators of their share of the blame.  But sight should not be lost of the fact that, as in any profession,  some number of HS coaches are just plain duds.  

 

What do you do when you get one of those?  All you can do, really,  is keep your head down, do your thing, when given a chance, and move on and leave it behind you when summer and fall rolls around.  Fortunately, there are enough avenues outside of HS for honing your baseball skills in this parts, that you're not necessarily hostage to the quality of your HS coach.