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coach's view/needs

F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
quote:
Roger on going crazy trying to figure out college coaches' thinking. It amazes me how 2 of them can see a kid at the time and come up with 180* opposite opinions

How do you know what they are thinking? They're not likely to tell a parent or player.

Of course opinions will vary, but I doubt very much that college coaches have opposite opinions. To put it in terms of the PG rating system, I suspect that there are very few instances of one coach rating a player as an 8, while another rates the player as a 10.

Suppose a coach rates two players as nearly equally desireable. He still has to rank the two players, and so one gets an offer and the other doesn't. Trying to infer a coach's opinion based on offers is going to make you go crazy, because there just isn't enough information available to figure it out.
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
G gonefishin10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
quote:
Roger on going crazy trying to figure out college coaches' thinking. It amazes me how 2 of them can see a kid at the time and come up with 180* opposite opinions

How do you know what they are thinking? They're not likely to tell a parent or player.


I'll grant you that 180 is a bit too much of an exageration but I stand by the basic point. Now, as to your question - you assume too much. Could it not be that they might talk to me in a situation other than as a parent? I have several current and former college coaches I count among my friends.
Lastly I didn't say anything about figuring out their thinking based on an offer. I just agreed that trying to figure out their thinking could make you crazy - period.

ETA: If you are trying to say all the coaches out there look at kids and see basically the same thing, I'll politely disagree. Sports history is chock full of, "Where the heck did that kid come from and what did you see that I didn't stories?"
Last edited by gonefishin
B bothsportsdad100+ posts
Bof: After going through a couple of camps and a number of other events this summer I scratch my head and wonder how two programs can rate my son at the same event very differently. It seems to me that this whole evaluation of a player is very very subjective at best for some programs.


^this reminds me of a great story that was told to me by a friend of mine who coached for the Cardinals in the minor leagues. There was an old time coach (name escapes me; he passed away about 3 years ago) who came to the Cardinals to work with the younger players every spring training. He related this story to my friend one day when we were talking about the subjective evaluation of players...

Stan Musial was down in spring training for the first time. He hadn't hit particularly well that spring and of course as everyone knows while he was a serviceable fielder he wasnt know for his glove or his arm. Couple all this with his quirky stance and when time came for the brain trust to assign the players the consensus was just to let Stan go! Well the mgr for one of the Cardinal minor league affiliates in PA said well I need someone to throw batting practice just let him take the trip back up north with us and we can drop him off at his home in PA when we get there. Well as it turns out Stan got to play a bit on the trip back north and impressed enough to earn a spot on the minor league team.. 3630 hits later and the rest as they say is history.

Any scout can spot a 'tool" player... but anyone who says it isnt a subjective process and if you can play they will find you just is not looking at the history of the game.
Last edited by bothsportsdad
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by gonefishin:
quote:
Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
quote:
Roger on going crazy trying to figure out college coaches' thinking. It amazes me how 2 of them can see a kid at the time and come up with 180* opposite opinions

How do you know what they are thinking? They're not likely to tell a parent or player.


I'll grant you that 180 is a bit too much of an exageration. But as to your question - you assume too much. Could it not be that they might talk to me in a situation other than as a parent? I have several current and former college coaches I count among my friends.
Lastly I didn't say anything about figuring out their thinking based on an offer. I just agreed that trying to figure out their thinking could make you crazy - period.




My son attended a showcase camp in June attended by a number of coaches, including many from the Nor Cal area. He had a very good showing and is now on the radar for a few of the schools at the camp. A D1 Coach/RC (very honest & upfront) was at this showcase. He and my son have spoken on a few occasions, and did so at this camp. The coach gave kids an honest assessment of their abilities, and stated whether on not they were D1 material (his opinion). My kid received very good reviews from the coach, stating that he would be playing D1 in 2012. I bring this up, because the same coach had informed two of my son's friends that they weren't quite ready, and had some work to do? Well, I can happily tell you that they've both verbally committed in the last couple of weeks to some pretty good D1 programs...so you're absolutely correct, trying to figure out their (coaches) thinking could make you crazy!
H highheat15100+ posts
im not trying to be critical, but why is it that it seems that in this thread, as well as all across HSBaseballWeb, everybody has a son who is the prototype D1 player and has recieved interest from the UNCs and Stanfords of the world. Are there seriously not any parents or players on here who are true dII-DIII prospects?

Im sorry, but it does seem quite ridiculous at times when the only recruiting stories on here are the ones from people who ONLY recieved 8 calls July 1st, throw 88-95 MPH, and are PG 8.5-10.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by highheat15:
im not trying to be critical, but why is it that it seems that in this thread, as well as all across HSBaseballWeb, everybody has a son who is the prototype D1 player and has recieved interest from the UNCs and Stanfords of the world. Are there seriously not any parents or players on here who are true dII-DIII prospects?

Im sorry, but it does seem quite ridiculous at times when the only recruiting stories on here are the ones from people who ONLY recieved 8 calls July 1st, throw 88-95 MPH, and are PG 8.5-10.

I wonder the same things.

I am not sure how some of this information helps people? Confused How does subjectivity work by the way? The coaches that say good things are objective and the ones who are less than impressed are subjective? Are parents objective?

Some of the comments in this thread and the other one seem like it is high D1 or bust. I don't see how anyone is helped knowing what recruiters are saying, how many phone calls are received, or lamenting some coaches don't hold the same high opinions as expressed here.

Every year we get inuendo'ed about how gifted parents think their kids are. Coaches say nice things about all players who are recruited or the players would never matriculate at their schools. The reality of all this is 9 of 35 guys on any given day get to play. I am sure it is reassuring for the other 26 on the bench that the coaches said nice things about them during recruiting.

IMHO, parents are better off being HIGHLY "objective" about who on the roster will be competing against their uber-talented kids rather than worrying about who is and is not saying ideal things about them.
JC Jeff Connell100+ posts
I don't see this as a bragging venue. I began this thread to try to get some perspective from all kinds of people as to how coaches can see a player from such different views. I don't think it is D1 or bust. Actually my son and most I have coached that were recruited D1 had a juco as their fall back.
I can tell you the story of my older son who had a D2 scholarship but decided he did not want to pay to play when he could go to a local D1 and just go to school. It hurt because he had always played ball but I left the choice to him. AFter a year out of the game, he has grown, matured, lifted weights, worked out and has decided to walk on at his new school. I don't know if he will make it or not but it was his choice. He was the kid who was courted by D1's and then nothing. He was not offered the D2 until late summer even though he led our team and conference in pitching stats, wins, era, and all. But he did not have the number most are looking for, velocity and home runs. Now he has both.
In his situation, I could not see how you could go from we want you to nothing then a year later we want you again. Again, I have realized that we all view players differently.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I have stated this before and will again for all of those new folks.

A large D1 baseball program is not for everyone.

Over the years, there have been many behind the scenes PM's from folks whose players are in such programs and admitting it was not what they expected for their sons. There are reasons many of which I won't go into, I always think that is something that people will have to find out for themselves.

Keep in mind what CD mentioned, there are only 9 that play and the best ones play every game. And keep in mind on a 35 man roster, more than half are pitchers. Try to get objective opinions, from others, as to where your son's true ability is to help in the recruiting process. Attend one of those larger camps (for their excellent instruction) and most of those guys are honest enough to let you know where your player really stands.

HH15, the reason being for much D1 discussion is because many players get the same generic letter from D1 schools (who have the $$ resources to do this) and that generates excitement.

BTW, there are many here whose sons have played JUCO and other divisions, NAIA (rather than very large D1 programs) you just may not be familiar with them all. I think a lot of us whose sons played those larger programs,have over the years very politely tried to steer most in the opposite direction.
H highheat15100+ posts
Jeff, I am very glad both of your sons have been given great opportunities for collegiate baseball. I am not saying that everyone is bragging on this website, it just seems slightly strange that everyone's son or every player is a d1 prospect whenever thread such as this appear.

I do NOT want to bash any kid or any parent on how their son was or is being recruited, but it is slightly assinine to make such comments as "my son was only called X times on July 1st" or "my son only took x official visits to a d1" because in reality, only maybe 20% of all recruits get to enjoy those pleasures. I know for a fact i certainly will most likely not.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
quote:
Originally posted by highheat15:
im not trying to be critical, but why is it that it seems that in this thread, as well as all across HSBaseballWeb, everybody has a son who is the prototype D1 player and has recieved interest from the UNCs and Stanfords of the world. Are there seriously not any parents or players on here who are true dII-DIII prospects?

Im sorry, but it does seem quite ridiculous at times when the only recruiting stories on here are the ones from people who ONLY recieved 8 calls July 1st, throw 88-95 MPH, and are PG 8.5-10.

I wonder the same things.

I am not sure how some of this information helps people? Confused How does subjectivity work by the way? The coaches that say good things are objective and the ones who are less than impressed are subjective? Are parents objective?

Some of the comments in this thread and the other one seem like it is high D1 or bust. I don't see how anyone is helped knowing what recruiters are saying, how many phone calls are received, or lamenting some coaches don't hold the same high opinions as expressed here.

Every year we get inuendo'ed about how gifted parents think their kids are. Coaches say nice things about all players who are recruited or the players would never matriculate at their schools. The reality of all this is 9 of 35 guys on any given day get to play. I am sure it is reassuring for the other 26 on the bench that the coaches said nice things about them during recruiting.

IMHO, parents are better off being HIGHLY "objective" about who on the roster will be competing against their uber-talented kids rather than worrying about who is and is not saying ideal things about them.


My thoughts on the recruiting process are relatively new, as this is the first and only time I'll be on this ride with my son. I chimed in early on because it was refreshing to hear that other families are going through the same thing. It's also reassuring to know that many on this website have gone through this process with their kids over the years, and have great advice to share with all of us.

The reference I made to my son's friends and the particular coach was never meant to be demeaning, as I said earlier, I am very happy and excited for them. I was just agreeing that this process can be hard to figure out, and I used the showcase story as a reference...nothing more.

As to where or what division my own son will fall into, I don't know? But again, as I stated earlier his obvious GOALS begin with D1. In no way am I trying to be a part of one of those "ridiculous" recruiting stories as mentioned above. If it appears that way, then I'll have to do a better job of proof reading what I post, because it's not intentional. This is the recruiting thread, right? I'm just trying to get answers, learn from others, and share where my son is at in this process...congrats to the kids that have committed, and good luck to those kids still on the journey!
B bothsportsdad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bsbl247:
quote:
Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
quote:
Originally posted by highheat15:
im not trying to be critical, but why is it that it seems that in this thread, as well as all across HSBaseballWeb, everybody has a son who is the prototype D1 player and has recieved interest from the UNCs and Stanfords of the world. Are there seriously not any parents or players on here who are true dII-DIII prospects?

Im sorry, but it does seem quite ridiculous at times when the only recruiting stories on here are the ones from people who ONLY recieved 8 calls July 1st, throw 88-95 MPH, and are PG 8.5-10.

I wonder the same things.

I am not sure how some of this information helps people? Confused How does subjectivity work by the way? The coaches that say good things are objective and the ones who are less than impressed are subjective? Are parents objective?

Some of the comments in this thread and the other one seem like it is high D1 or bust. I don't see how anyone is helped knowing what recruiters are saying, how many phone calls are received, or lamenting some coaches don't hold the same high opinions as expressed here.

Every year we get inuendo'ed about how gifted parents think their kids are. Coaches say nice things about all players who are recruited or the players would never matriculate at their schools. The reality of all this is 9 of 35 guys on any given day get to play. I am sure it is reassuring for the other 26 on the bench that the coaches said nice things about them during recruiting.

IMHO, parents are better off being HIGHLY "objective" about who on the roster will be competing against their uber-talented kids rather than worrying about who is and is not saying ideal things about them.


My thoughts on the recruiting process are relatively new, as this is the first and only time I'll be on this ride with my son. I chimed in early on because it was refreshing to hear that other families are going through the same thing. It's also reassuring to know that many on this website have gone through this process with their kids over the years, and have great advice to share with all of us.

The reference I made to my son's friends and the particular coach was never meant to be demeaning, as I said earlier, I am very happy and excited for them. I was just agreeing that this process can be hard to figure out, and I used the showcase story as a reference...nothing more.

As to where or what division my own son will fall into, I don't know? But again, as I stated earlier his obvious GOALS begin with D1. In no way am I trying to be a part of one of those "ridiculous" recruiting stories as mentioned above. If it appears that way, then I'll have to do a better job of proof reading what I post, because it's not intentional. This is the recruiting thread, right? I'm just trying to get answers, learn from others, and share where my son is at in this process...congrats to the kids that have committed, and good luck to those kids still on the journey!


continue to dream big because one thing is for certain... Nobody else will do it for you!
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
I disagree regarding most on here being parents of elite players.

I have been on this site longer than most and the vast majority of the parents and players I have met or spoken with have not been what we would term elite players.

In my years with our travel team, where I draw on my experiences, most of of our kids are simply very good HS players with college baseball ability.Yes we have drafted kids but the majority of our kids, I cannot speak for other teams in our region, are college potential players.

In my mind the majority of posters on here speak from their own kids experiences which is a great thing because there are things to be taken from each individual experience. I know I learn from them.

There are also of few of us on here who coach or run teams/programs and have experience with a multitude of kids.

The hsbaseballweb is a definite melting pot
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
It is puzzling to me why Jeff's question would be met with hostility on this site.
I think it is important that people feel free to post their experiences without ridicule.
Me I got very tough skin but many are afraid to post. Over the years I have been on this site I have seen many exit because of being attacked.
Our experience was quite different in that we did no showcases and relied on a video marketing campaign . My guy was a soft tossing lefty topping out at 82-83. I guess that is bragging.
His goals were different than many. He had no interest in pro ball. He only wanted to play D1 in the South which the last time I checked is not a crime or a sin.
His 1st choice college recruited him or should I say strung him along for over a year. I finally pressed for an answer and was told they were going with a JC transfer. I guess that is also bragging.
My point is that we all have something to add even if you don't agree. All I can say is I wouldn't change a thing.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by highheat15:
Jeff, I am very glad both of your sons have been given great opportunities for collegiate baseball. I am not saying that everyone is bragging on this website, it just seems slightly strange that everyone's son or every player is a d1 prospect whenever thread such as this appear.

I do NOT want to bash any kid or any parent on how their son was or is being recruited, but it is slightly assinine to make such comments as "my son was only called X times on July 1st" or "my son only took x official visits to a d1" because in reality, only maybe 20% of all recruits get to enjoy those pleasures. I know for a fact i certainly will most likely not.


hh15,

I was going to ignore your little comments, but unfortunately I can't! I don't know you, or for the most part...anyone else posting on the hsbbweb! A friend of mine found this website and recommended it to me a couple years ago, and up until yesterday I've enjoyed the process of learning and sharing with others.

Your "assinine" comment in regards to July 1st calls is ridiculous! I realize it's difficult to get a feel for someone's thoughts based on what's written sometimes, very often things get misinterpretted! When I stated the number of calls it wasn't meant to brag, heck ...I don't know anyone on this site! If I do, they're hidden under their screen name! The reason for numbers in my "assinine" statement was to paint a picture, and perhaps receive advice from those in the same boat, or better yet from those that have been through this already! The fact that my son has only heard from 4 of 5 schools in the last six weeks is important, IMO! But, maybe it's par for the course, I don't know? I was just hoping for a little advice, no big deal!

As for your earlier statement that everyone on here feels their son is a D1 recruit, and there are no D2,D3, and JC players...that again is ridiculous, or as you had stated, assinine! We are right in the middle of the D1 recruiting period, this is the time my son and other players are supposed to enjoy. Generally speaking, D2/D3 schools sit back and wait for kids to trickle down in the process. Junior Colleges (at least here) usually don't aggressively recruit until kids are in the middle of their senior year of baseball season. Again, as I said earlier, his goal is D1 baseball! He has a legitimate shot, but if it doesn't pan out he'll take the best offer available. That's how the process goes, we're going to enjoy it!

Lastly, I hope the very best for your son during his journey in high school and beyond. There's no doubt that we all want what's best for our children...and that's exactly what I want for mine! Take Care
D deccabell10+ posts
I must agree I do not understand the process myself, my son received more interest letters prior to this summer July 1st. After that, there has not been one word,however,he continues to work hard, because he loves the game.He just completed a tournament in North Carolina. ButI am curious what is the deadline of the recruitment period? During the season a couple of MLB scouts gave my son their business cards, what exactly does that mean?
H highheat15100+ posts
Look bsbl and bobblehead....I am in no way trying to start a fight over the internet. I have read hsbaseballweb for over a year now and it just strikes me funny that sometimes their is just WAY too much self back-patting on this website.

I honestly hope the best for every single person that reads this website and understand this thread is for d1 recruiting, but its just thoughts I've felt for a long time. I understand the process and its absolutely degrading on a player to be told he's not good enough because he wasnt given x height, doesnt run an x 60, doesnt throw x MPH, etc. From down south we call that profiling, and its ridiculous. Look at Texas A&M, Texas, LSU, etc, and you see the same exact type of player up and down the roster.

Look, there are maybe 1000 d1 players out of the 10000+ who are playing some type of collegiate ball. Its awesome that alot of the parents on here have been able to send their sons to these programs, but it just doesnt always present an accurate array of recruiting stories when their are parents and readers who have or who are B- players and dont get to enjoy that ride, yet never post in these forums.

Please dont feel as if im personally attacking any person on here because I do not want to do that in any way...just understand that the other 90% who arent d1 are reading this forum at the same time you are....
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Sometimes threads can turn into a mess where nothing positive is coming from it. Dont let a post get you upset. Dont let what someone says on a computer get you p i s s ed off. We all have our own experiences and we all have our own opinions.

It is very common for one program "Coaching staff" to really like a player and recruit him and another to not be interested. Sometimes its simply a need you and dont need you guy based on what they already have and what they already have coming in. Sometimes its the fact your guy just doesnt fit their program and their coaching staffs style of play. It could be something as simple as the pitching coach not likeing a kids delivery or arm slot because he had a kid one time he reminds him of and it didnt pan out. Unless your a kid that is just a no brainer everyone is not going to jump up and down about the prospect of getting you.

Sometimes kids are not recruited by certain schools because they dont believe they can get him and they are not going to waste resources recruiting him. There are many reasons one program may really like a kid and others may not. Thats ok its just the way it is.

Trying to get kids to understand that its not where they are but what they do where they are sometimes can be a difficult thing. Getting caught up in D1 or bust or Bigtime D1 or bust can lead to some poor decisions and some outstanding missed opportunities for players. And sometimes a kid can be a bigtime D1 baseball player but not a bigtime D1 student. Its all about being in the right place for you. And that may mean your talent could be a good match but you are not a good match. Or maybe your talent is a good fit for one school but not for another because what you bring to the table is not as highly valued at one school as it is at another.

I can tell you from personal experience that where you really want to be and where you really need to be can be totally different. And sometimes kids have to come to that realization on their own because they dont listen until they get hit smack dab in the face with it. But thats life.

The best fit for a kid is not only academics but baseball as well. We are talking about kids who love the game and really want to play in college. And we all want them to get the best education they can get at the same time. So good luck to all of you and dont stress about all of this. You can do everything right and still make a bad decision. You can do everything wrong and get lucky as hel. No one gave you a book and told you to follow it by the T when you were raising your kids. You simply did the best you could do and hoped it all worked out. Just do the best you can do and then support your kid. And if it doesnt work out punt , play some great defense and score the next time you have the ball.

Good luck
B bothsportsdad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Sometimes threads can turn into a mess where nothing positive is coming from it. Dont let a post get you upset. Dont let what someone says on a computer get you p i s s ed off. We all have our own experiences and we all have our own opinions.

It is very common for one program "Coaching staff" to really like a player and recruit him and another to not be interested. Sometimes its simply a need you and dont need you guy based on what they already have and what they already have coming in. Sometimes its the fact your guy just doesnt fit their program and their coaching staffs style of play. It could be something as simple as the pitching coach not likeing a kids delivery or arm slot because he had a kid one time he reminds him of and it didnt pan out. Unless your a kid that is just a no brainer everyone is not going to jump up and down about the prospect of getting you.

Sometimes kids are not recruited by certain schools because they dont believe they can get him and they are not going to waste resources recruiting him. There are many reasons one program may really like a kid and others may not. Thats ok its just the way it is.

Trying to get kids to understand that its not where they are but what they do where they are sometimes can be a difficult thing. Getting caught up in D1 or bust or Bigtime D1 or bust can lead to some poor decisions and some outstanding missed opportunities for players. And sometimes a kid can be a bigtime D1 baseball player but not a bigtime D1 student. Its all about being in the right place for you. And that may mean your talent could be a good match but you are not a good match. Or maybe your talent is a good fit for one school but not for another because what you bring to the table is not as highly valued at one school as it is at another.

I can tell you from personal experience that where you really want to be and where you really need to be can be totally different. And sometimes kids have to come to that realization on their own because they dont listen until they get hit smack dab in the face with it. But thats life.

The best fit for a kid is not only academics but baseball as well. We are talking about kids who love the game and really want to play in college. And we all want them to get the best education they can get at the same time. So good luck to all of you and dont stress about all of this. You can do everything right and still make a bad decision. You can do everything wrong and get lucky as hel. No one gave you a book and told you to follow it by the T when you were raising your kids. You simply did the best you could do and hoped it all worked out. Just do the best you can do and then support your kid. And if it doesnt work out punt , play some great defense and score the next time you have the ball.

Good luck


Thank you Coach May for a great post...
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
It isn't that difficult for people to have different opinions on a player. One of the players on my son's team at his first showcase was a sophmore who we had known for years was a terrific hitter. He'd been one of the league's best hitters in a league with quite a few 90+ throwers. He had a poor showing at the showcase and was rated a 7.5. He didn't have a strong arm and it was below normal that weekend. He had decent running speed but nothing spectacular. I didn't see his BP but he struck out against soft stuff and he struck out against hard stuff in games and didn't get a hit the entire showcase. To be honest, giving him a 7.5 rating took some projection because he didn't perform anywhere near that well. When my son was rated a bit higher than this player we had a bit of a laugh because we knew the kid was good, really good. Not long after that he got an offer from a major D1. A few months later he showcased and was rated a 9.5. Today I assume he's almost done negotiating his first round deal.

I can't imagine that any two coaches could have had the same impression of this player from that particular showcase. Tons of talent/projection, some obvious weaknesses and performance that didn't match the talent.
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