coach's view/needs

Jeff

I don't know if there is one answer:
Some coaches like speed
Some coaches like thunder
Some coaches may not recruit certain positions
etc etc

Personal experience: my son had coaches tell him he was not a Division I player yet he signed with a major Division 1 program in the Big West Conference and had a fine college career as a 4 year starter

It is simply different strokes for different coaches --- if you try to figure it out it will drive you crazy

Of course the make up of the roster at a particular school can be an issue. If a school has a Stud Soph SS they may not be recruiting SS for example. Another factor is the signability issue. If top level DIs are offering your son a lower level school may not believe he will be coming to their school. Why hold out scholarship monies they could use to get a kid likely to enroll.

Jeff,

Your post is timely as I have been thinking about the same thing since my 2011 son is in the middle of the recruitment dance. After going through a couple of camps and a number of other events this summer I scratch my head and wonder how two programs can rate my son at the same event very differently. It seems to me that this whole evaluation of a player is very very subjective at best for some programs. It cracks me up where one great game can move you up in a programs food chain or they come running and one bad game can move you down or off their list. The best programs seem to be very diligent and have “systems” to gather data from many sources and come up with a pretty good evaluation, and others are completely by the seat of the pants evaluation by very young and inexperienced coaches who are assigned to some of these camps/games. I personally find myself more attracted to the programs that are doing their homework over ones that come running after one great game, because it makes you wonder what they will be doing after one bad game.

I have also noticed that coaches whose contracts may be coming up or their program may be underperforming get a little tentative in their selections or holding off offers because they are so afraid of making a mistake or looking for "that" kid. I have also noticed that certain programs look for a specific type of player to plug in, while others are looking to fill specific needs. To find this out you need to do a lot of digging in their roster, teach your son to talk to the coaches frankly ask the right questions to see where he REALLY fits in their program.

I was talking to one of the coaches from my son’s fall scout team and he said “just wait until scout ball gets going after a few weeks, the blue chip kids will be finalized with their commitments and come off the board, the next level will start to drop off the board and then there will be this feeding frenzy trying to fill the remaining spots in almost a panic mode”. I have also noticed that some programs are already done with their 2011’s and others don’t have any offers out yet, very strange indeed.

TR is right if you try to figure it out it will drive you crazy, at least for us we are just working through OUR plan, and trust that it will all work out in the end.

Of the coaching triumvirate, Teaching, Game Management, Skill Recognition...skill recognition is the most elusive. The talent evaluation part of skill recognition is something you either have an eye for or don't, and then understanding how and where those skill sets should be deployed within a framework of other people who should compliment those skill sets is more uncommon among coaches than the rule.

I've been sitting back thinking the same thing regarding the recruiting process. I hate to say it, but it's good to hear that others have the same issues with their 2011 son's. My son had only received five calls on July 1st, but he was excited about a couple of the programs. Two of the coaches have been following him for awhile now. Now we're in the middle of August, and he's only had contact with one of the five schools. Is he now off the radar for the other four schools? I don't know? I'm doing my best not to panic, because there are still a number of very good 2011's that have not committed!

There are only a few days left for the MLB signing deadline. Will things begin to open up after 8/16? I know a few schools in So Cal are waiting and anticipating possible scholly money that will be available when/if their players sign.

I had heard the same thing as BOF regarding scout-ball...when it begins in the fall, so too does the majority of the recruiting in our area. We'll see what happens over the next couple of months? I don't know about the majority of you, but it seems that we as parents are a little more stressed at this point than our kids! We just need to let them play ball, and hopefully everything else will fall into place! Okay, now I'll try and practice what I preach...much easier to say, than do!

I have been amazed at the the variance in viewing. One college coach told me my son did not have the velocity they were looking for. He said our pitching ocach only has him at 85-86. I was literally laughing because he had stood with me at a PG event with both of us watching PG's radar gun and my son rode 87-88 for 7 innings and his next to last pitch was 89. I wanted to ask the coach if they had checked his pitching coach's eyes. All I could say was he hit 91 at UNC and 92 in Ohio last week Coach according to other parents and coaches, not my eyes because I was not there.
I just wonder what some of these guys are seeing or not seeing. I see kids out there that should be D1 that are getting no offers and D1 committed kids that can't start for many high schools. I'm glad there are others in the same boat. Maybe we can bail together to keep the ship afloat.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:

I see kids out there that should be D1 that are getting no offers and D1 committed kids that can't start for many high schools. I'm glad there are others in the same boat. Maybe we can bail together to keep the ship afloat.

There are many coaches that take a lot of things into consideration other than the pitcher's velocity or the hitter's HR. This perhaps goes along with the other topic you started. Perhaps that player we think is top D1 material can't afford 75% of the cost, perhaps the other player can. Does he need more starters or more relief guys? Does he not want to bother because he thinks he might lose him in the draft (as 3G pointed out) or the player doesn't seem entirely commitment to college baseball (coaches tired of getting burned so I hear). Does he think that one is more coachable than the other. It's very much about talent but it is also very much about the coaches budget, how he sees a particular player fitting into the team, being projectible and coachable and other things that we as parents don't realize, even sometimes not liking the parent and their attitude.

Perhaps telling you that your son didn't have the velocity (though he did) was his just polite way of saying, I am not interested. I am not really sure why parents are having discussions with coaches anyway, this should be between the player and coach, perhpas the parent geting involved with scholarship discussion, we stayed out of it until we were contacted by coaches interested.

Just keep in mind that sometimes it's not what you hit on the radar, but how many pitches for strikes you throw (especially at the big programs) effectively and whether he needs a RHP or LHP.

Don't take my comments personally, we've all been through it, why do they want that guy and not my player. If you try to figure it out it will drive you crazy because you never will.

The good part in all of this is that for those that haven't paid nuch attention to what advice has been offered here over teh years, are now finding out for themselves (and will be able to give advice after all is said and done) that it is NOT an easy road for anyone, there are many many factors that go into recruiting.

I agree with TPM, and we actually have not talked to a coach as of yet...well actually we said hi to one at a game, but my son has been doing all of the talking - so far anyway.

I also understand that each program has specific needs, and although my son, or any player for that matter, may be a great player, he/they may not match their needs. Also each program is only adding 4-8 kids per recruiting year and from the outside you cannot tell what they are really looking for. This is why IMO you need to equip your son with the ability to ask some penetrating questions, and probably more importantly have relationships with travel and scout team coaches who can openly talk with the college coaches about their needs without them having to deal with “the parents”. They will get straight answers and I am sure “the parents” get some but not all of the truth.

TR is also spot on…..it will drive you crazy to try to figure it all out. Have a plan and stick to your plan. The other thing that has been said here for years and for those who are new, the importance of good grades is paramount. Every single one of the programs looking at my son are doing so because he is a good baseball player AND has excellent grades and test scores. Without the grades/tests he would have NO prospects.

Jeff consider yourself lucky because my son would love to be throwing 87-89…in fact if he was he would probably already been signed.

Also remember the feeding frenzy, as near as I can tell, is really just at the top of the food chain right now. After the D1’s go, you have the D2-3’s and NAIA’s….. Keep the faith as this may go on for a long time, as I know of a very good player in our area who signed nearly ¾ of the way through his HS season with a very successful D1 here in So Cal.

I agree with most that has been stated here. I could use example after example from a coach's perspective, a fan's perspective and a parent's perspective. I chose to use ours so I was not getting other players involved. I understand part of it from picking players for travel teams. There were parents I would not take. There were kids that I did not want. There were kids who would bail on me in a heartbeat. Then there were some kids that were great players just did not fill the voids I needed.
I have a good idea why some offered my son and why some didn't. All of the above and more reasons fit into this equation. It is just interesting how some coaches see some things and others don't.
For the record, the coach contacted us and told me he was not going to make an offer after the program had told my son, his summer coach, and his school coach they were going to make an offer. I believe the velocity thing was just an easy way out. It was fine, just business as has been said many times on here.

The coaches mystify me at times also. On just the one point of throwing 87-89 at a showcase, that doesn't mean that a pitcher throws 87-89. It means he's capable of throwing 87-89. I realize I'm stretching a bit here but the coach may have looked at him and said to himself, here's a kid who's topping out at 87-89 who'll work at 85-86 facing aluminum bats in college throwing several innings, although if he really was throwing that hard for 7 innings I'd have to believe that was pretty darn close to his working velocity.

Mine threw 85-87 consistently at one college camp with most of the pitches at 86-87. Generally speaking if he works 84-85 in a game we feel he's got some zip on the ball that day.

Jeff,

If your son is who I think he is, he'll be just fine. In fact, I believe you'll be on here in the next few weeks proudly stating that he has verbally committed somewhere!

BOF,

I'd have to say that I agree with TR too...it will drive us crazy to try and figure all of this out! My son sat in the 87-89 range the last couple of tournaments, including WWBA 17u in Georgia. His grades and SAT score are more than adequate for the majority of the schools! He's had plenty of interest, yet no official offers? It could be that he's played/showcased as a position player first, and as a pitcher second? I'd like him to have the opportunity to be a two-way player in college, but I'm also realistic...we'll see what happens?

quote:

For the record, the coach contacted us and told me he was not going to make an offer after the program had told my son, his summer coach, and his school coach they were going to make an offer. I believe the velocity thing was just an easy way out. It was fine, just business as has been said many times on here.

Count yourself as lucky. Most of the time coaches either don't have the time or just don't make that kind of contact. It allowed you to move on and thats more information than is normal.

TPM - Great post!

I am just curious.I am going to ask this question.it is in no way an attack or even an opinion.

Are most of you looking at D1 schools only? Just curious.

Let me clarify. I am not complaining in any form or fashion. My son has options. I just started this because I have used it, heard it used on here, and heard it used by coaches and scouts. It has just become real to me as we are closing in on THE DECISION that what may appear to be a "good offer" some times is not and some times a not so good offer is a great offer. The situation has to be weighed in it entirity. It amazes me that WE (the baseball community) consider taking a smaller school with a great offer many times a step down than taking a big school and having to pay large sums. In the real world, we would take a great pay raise to go to a smaller business but it is many times taboo in the baseball world to go to a smaller school.

I don't see it that way Jeff. I really don't.

The "great" offer is different to every kid and every family...sometimes different to the kid than the family.

I don't think I'm part of your definition of "WE (the baseball community)."

Parents and their sons pick the school that is right for him within their means...whichever school that may be (big, small, JC, D1, D2, D3 or whatever).

To me, its really that simple. No one on here can figure that out for you...none of us walk in your shoes.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
I am just curious.I am going to ask this question.it is in no way an attack or even an opinion.

Are most of you looking at D1 schools only? Just curious.

No worries. I'm looking at the natural progression in this process with D1's (mid-majors) being the initial goal for my son. If he does not receive any offers from D1 schools, he'll go the D2-D3 route. If that doesn't work out monetarily, he'll go the JC route. It's up to him on the field and in the classroom, and lastly...it's up to my wife and I as to what we can afford.

We only considered D1. Simply put you have a 4 year experience and as a pitcher he wanted to face the big name schools.
We also only looked at schools that were warm weather, non rural and made a large scholarship offer.
Now my son has hung up his cleats by his choice and his terms, we made some great choices. No debt, great experience and memories that will last a life time. Met his fiancée at school and has an unbelievable amount of friends.

FOG.

For us at least it is being driven by academics first, then baseball match, and location. We continue to have the east vs west discussion. At least in our case the west schools play baseball at a higher level, but there are some east schools that should he get an offer to (and be accepted) that could be as life changing as being drafted high, so we have to seriously consider them baseball notwithstanding. There are many fine schools that we have never followed up with because of the lack of an academic match. Like BHD & bsbl posted we started with highest level of D1's and work our way down. There are some very very fine high academic D3 schools that I would be thrilled with, but they tend to wait until the D1's get sorted out.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
FOG.

Like BHD & bsbl posted we started with highest level of D1's and work our way down. There are some very very fine high academic D3 schools that I would be thrilled with, but they tend to wait until the D1's get sorted out.

Us too.
Roger on going crazy trying to figure out college coaches' thinking. It amazes me how 2 of them can see a kid at the time and come up with 180* opposite opinions