Okay, a few thoughts after reading all the more recent posts......I haven't taken notes and I am not going to look back, so take them for what they are, thoughts and observations:
--Tournaments have not changed the recruiting scene. Tournaments have always (at least up to 20 years ago) been the places where college coaches and ML scouts could go see many teams/many players in one location over the course of a few days..........Showcases are definitely what has changed the recruiting scene. This is my opinion, but it is also fact. I have been intimately involved in this scene for twenty years.
--Somebody had written that it is essential to attend a couple showcase type things for the potential of Aflac game, Area Codes, etc........some of us who contribute here have to remember that those events are for the elite, which is a miniscule percentage of the players out there. I think I can safely say that only a small percentage of the parents who read this have kids with the abilities to be chosen for the Aflac and Area Code games.
--Another post or two mentioned that they would rather have their son play for a small scholarship at a DI school than play at a DIII school. We must again remember that not all kids have the option of even a small DI scholarship. Those are limited to another very small percentage of players. DII schools, NAIA schools, and JUCOs also have scholarship money available, and in most cases a player will be able to contribute earlier at these schools than they would at most DI programs.
--Remembering PG's list of PG participants who have signed at the top 40-50 or so DI programs, I recall seeing approximately 3-4 per school who had not been PG participants, so therefore it is not an absolute that one must attend a PG event or any other event.
--Players do not have to travel south to be seen by college coaches and scouts. I personally know hundreds of college coaches and ML scouts in the north.
--Baseball players can learn to pitch late in their careers. In my several years as an NAIA coach, some of my better pitchers were guys who pitched little to never in high school. They had good arms and had some definciencies as hitters/position players but had very good college careers as pitchers.
Bottom line is that any and all baseball experiences can be good. Tournaments are good. Showcases are good. Travel teams are good. American Legion games/post-season tournaments are good. AABC participation is good. Individual lessons are good. What is right for one may not be right for another. What my kid did may not work for another. Nothing is necessarily wrong to do.....unless the player is doing something that he does not want to do.
quote:Bottom line is that any and all baseball experiences can be good. Tournaments are good. Showcases are good. Travel teams are good. American Legion games/post-season tournaments are good. AABC participation is good. Individual lessons are good. What is right for one may not be right for another. What my did did may not work for another. Nothing is necessarily wrong to do.....unless the player is doing something that he does not want to do.
Grateful, You've just said what I've tried to express a couple of times, but did it much more eloquently. We must all remember when reading and sharing our experiences and suggestions that our kids have different desires and abilities and we, as parents, bring different experiences to the boards. Good advice!
Jerry,
Since I am very familiar with the player you are talking about from Clemson, hope that you didn't take what I said about showcases as a negative. He only attended two, both were PG, with positive results, but I do believe Sully first saw him play in Jupiter in fall of junior year. I do believe that game was "being at the right time and the right place", something I always talk about because that is where we saw the best results in terms of letters and his performance. I always say, if it wasn't for that tourney who knows if Sully would have seen him.
His first showcase with you was in Ft Myers in winter of his junior year, then in Lincoln. I do believe he didn't do as well in Linclon, pitching that week, wondering if that is why he never made the Aflac team, his velo was down. I think you had him on file before Lincoln.
The showcases for him were at the right time in his HS baseball career. Not too soon, not too late.
I don't think the theme is not to attend showcases, but how many is not enough and how many is too many.
I personally prefer wood bat tournaments, but definetly see a need for a player to attend a showcase.
Since I am very familiar with the player you are talking about from Clemson, hope that you didn't take what I said about showcases as a negative. He only attended two, both were PG, with positive results, but I do believe Sully first saw him play in Jupiter in fall of junior year. I do believe that game was "being at the right time and the right place", something I always talk about because that is where we saw the best results in terms of letters and his performance. I always say, if it wasn't for that tourney who knows if Sully would have seen him.
His first showcase with you was in Ft Myers in winter of his junior year, then in Lincoln. I do believe he didn't do as well in Linclon, pitching that week, wondering if that is why he never made the Aflac team, his velo was down. I think you had him on file before Lincoln.
The showcases for him were at the right time in his HS baseball career. Not too soon, not too late.
I don't think the theme is not to attend showcases, but how many is not enough and how many is too many.
I personally prefer wood bat tournaments, but definetly see a need for a player to attend a showcase.
What amazing information. We are lucky that we did not have to spend alot. Son was recruited by D1-DIII's. We sent our son to 2 showcases, one before his Jr. Year and 1 before his Senior year. Both were Perfect Game showcases and the cost was within our restrictive budget. Our son played for a solid select team before his Sr. year and that cost was minimal and within the budget. However he was invited to a number of showcases that were free. He attended Area Code and the Pitssburgh Pirates try-outs. These two along with the PG showcases and his hard work allowed my son to play at the next level. There was no need to hire a company to promote my son. His father and I made sure we had him seen as much as we could afford to have him seen. There are alot of opportunities to attend college camps that are 100.00 for the camp. These are the look at players camps that mny players go to. We set out what we could afford budget wise, made our son aware of that budget and used this opportunity to teahch him about money management and getting the best bang for the buck
quote:In conclusion,let me just be clear on one thing, I am not a strong proponant of individual showcases
TPM,
I know you wrote "in excess" at the end of that sentence.
quote:As for the schools on PG's list, I am sure most of them do not even have to recruit by attending any event, they must get hundreds of letters a year from players wanting to attend their program.
TPM,
I'm sure you know they do attend and/or follow these events very closely. My cell phone has logged many calls from Sully, among many other college recruiters. Also it's important to mention that the hundreds of letters they get can be important, but it's the letters and calls they send out that are the most important. I know you went on to explain "they use events to scrutinize the best players". I happen to believe they are there trying to find the best players, be they on their mailing list or not.
I have no problem with the facts. I know you are not our enemy and I consider you a friend. It's just that you have a lot of people reading and following your opinions. Sometimes people don't read the entire message. I would hate to see one outstanding player get the wrong message and avoid something that could help him tremendously! Like it has so many others. I'm not talking about just Perfect Game here... There are several things that young players can do without spending much money. I could care less if they choose to attend our events. But somewhere along the way... Someone other than the parents and high school coaches need to provide reliable information.
By the way, we keep files and reports on every player who attends our stuff. We pull these files up every time we get a phone call from a recruiter or scout and we list the contact. This is so we can track players closely as well as have a feel for what the colleges are looking for. I've pulled up David's file... Clemson contacted us in July that year. I think the Jupiter event could have been the first time they actually saw him pitch, but they knew about him before that. Since that year and until this year's World Series appearance they have been to all the big events. They called looking for as much info as they could get and ordered the scout packet within days of Clemson's season ending.
Anyway, I would like nothing better for all those with talented sons than for them to get the facts! Even if it exposes Perfect Game mistakes or faults. Please forgive me for being a bit touchy about this subject. We live with it every day!
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
But why did the title of the post "Cost of being recruited" turn into Showcase analysis?
Well...ummm...good question! My excuse is that my buddy JBB vented about the younger kids showcasing so I made a feeble attempt to analyze why that happens. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Although my son never attended any PG events ETC. I know from fiends that they can be very helpful. I have seen players who were highly rated at these events and stop going in the crucial year and the interest from recruiters/scouts dropped off. With thousands of players trying to get noticed you should do everything you can to be noticed especially the summer before and during HS senior year.
I feel that there are negative issues that have developed due to the rise of PG, area codes and others. Scouts tend to rely on them and not so much on tournaments. Parents who can't afford them feel compelled to spend money they don't have, Younger and younger kids are being drawn into the event mentallity. They feel I have to go inorder to play college ball or go pro. Many of them do not have the talent or the money to do these things.
The truth is it costs money to play baseball and a lot of money to showcase. It is not necessary to do all this but it sure helps. Also there are players who do all this who go nowhere as well. The real unlucky ones do all this, sign at a college and sit on a bench. The realities of baseball can be brutal regardless of all the events and tournaments you attend. I have followed several players over the years and it isn't always pretty.
I feel that there are negative issues that have developed due to the rise of PG, area codes and others. Scouts tend to rely on them and not so much on tournaments. Parents who can't afford them feel compelled to spend money they don't have, Younger and younger kids are being drawn into the event mentallity. They feel I have to go inorder to play college ball or go pro. Many of them do not have the talent or the money to do these things.
The truth is it costs money to play baseball and a lot of money to showcase. It is not necessary to do all this but it sure helps. Also there are players who do all this who go nowhere as well. The real unlucky ones do all this, sign at a college and sit on a bench. The realities of baseball can be brutal regardless of all the events and tournaments you attend. I have followed several players over the years and it isn't always pretty.
Let's not kids ourselves here:
If your son is 6-feet-4, 220 pounds, throws 90 mph, runs a 6.7 60 and hits the ball like Herman Munster, he probably doesn't need to showcase. But he probably will, and probably spend less money than most of the rest of us.
If your son has a specific list of schools he is interested in, especially if they're relatively close to home, he might not need to showcase. You can do the school camps and get out of it what you need.
But if your son is like most of the rest, has some tools and some credits, is looking for a place to play, wants or needs money for school and needs to try to make a mark in that scholarship marketplace, he's going to have to showcase.
The amount of showcasing a player should do can be debated. And has. And will continue to be. And I don't think Jerry, or TR, or any of the other showcase folks who post here mind that.
But you've got to spend a little money to make a little. And, until and unless the recruiting rules change, the coaches are going to work the better showcases hard. And if you want/need to be seen, you have to go where they are.
If your son is 6-feet-4, 220 pounds, throws 90 mph, runs a 6.7 60 and hits the ball like Herman Munster, he probably doesn't need to showcase. But he probably will, and probably spend less money than most of the rest of us.
If your son has a specific list of schools he is interested in, especially if they're relatively close to home, he might not need to showcase. You can do the school camps and get out of it what you need.
But if your son is like most of the rest, has some tools and some credits, is looking for a place to play, wants or needs money for school and needs to try to make a mark in that scholarship marketplace, he's going to have to showcase.
The amount of showcasing a player should do can be debated. And has. And will continue to be. And I don't think Jerry, or TR, or any of the other showcase folks who post here mind that.
But you've got to spend a little money to make a little. And, until and unless the recruiting rules change, the coaches are going to work the better showcases hard. And if you want/need to be seen, you have to go where they are.
Jerry,
Opps, maybe need clarification here.
I am thinking that you are thinking I am giving the wrong impression, so here goes.
I have supported PG always, I have never supported any others as son has never attended any others. Two wood bat tourneys, and two showcases run by PG. One MLB showcase run by the White Sox. Two summers with Florida Pokers and one UM camp. That was the extent of what son did for junior, senior year. For some that may not be enough, for him it worked out well. I don't understand why son was brought up in the first place regarding this thread. Most here know that I support PG. By the way, go to my profile to see where I first found out about the HSBBW.
Yes I used the word in excess. This thread is about the cost of being recruited with discussions of what worked for some and what didn't work for others. I come here as a parent, with no intention other than to help those out, especially when parents come with concerns they do not have the money to spend and feel somewhat inadequate compared to the neighbor who has been to every showcase or camp in the US. You might not understand that, but many parents will. And if I get a private pm about attending PG but the cost is not in their budget, then I tell them to call you personally. I Know that you have helped many in the past and will in the future.
As far as the schools you listed, what I meant to say WAS they don't have to attend showcases or tournaments to find players, they come to do so, to watch them play and as you said to find other players. They don't sit back and watch videos, that's for sure. You provide a valuable service for both scouts, coach and player and I think that most here know that through the years I always said that. I am sorry if you misunderstood about the list. I am confused as to why you would think otherwise.
As you have obviously pointed out, son is a perfect example of what good things can happen when attending a PG event. I also told a story about what happened to another player that was seen at your event. Not sure what else you want me to say.
I can also verify that Sully is most probably on the list for "attending most PG events". He is a very tireless recruiter, who I think that needs to really get to see the player over several times before he decides that player is right for the program. He is a large part of the success Clemson is enjoying. I have said on many occasions here, if you want to be seen by Clemson, go to a PG event. I happened to have called him a few weeks back, guess where he was!?
I am not really understanding why you are being so touchy about this. I appreciate what you have said about people reading and following my opinions, but understand my opinion is THAT of a PARENT and will always be so, not a professional, or one of those that continuously hide behind some name but claim they know the business well. You are one of the few credible ones here for parents to rely on.
Opps, maybe need clarification here.
I am thinking that you are thinking I am giving the wrong impression, so here goes.
I have supported PG always, I have never supported any others as son has never attended any others. Two wood bat tourneys, and two showcases run by PG. One MLB showcase run by the White Sox. Two summers with Florida Pokers and one UM camp. That was the extent of what son did for junior, senior year. For some that may not be enough, for him it worked out well. I don't understand why son was brought up in the first place regarding this thread. Most here know that I support PG. By the way, go to my profile to see where I first found out about the HSBBW.
Yes I used the word in excess. This thread is about the cost of being recruited with discussions of what worked for some and what didn't work for others. I come here as a parent, with no intention other than to help those out, especially when parents come with concerns they do not have the money to spend and feel somewhat inadequate compared to the neighbor who has been to every showcase or camp in the US. You might not understand that, but many parents will. And if I get a private pm about attending PG but the cost is not in their budget, then I tell them to call you personally. I Know that you have helped many in the past and will in the future.
As far as the schools you listed, what I meant to say WAS they don't have to attend showcases or tournaments to find players, they come to do so, to watch them play and as you said to find other players. They don't sit back and watch videos, that's for sure. You provide a valuable service for both scouts, coach and player and I think that most here know that through the years I always said that. I am sorry if you misunderstood about the list. I am confused as to why you would think otherwise.
As you have obviously pointed out, son is a perfect example of what good things can happen when attending a PG event. I also told a story about what happened to another player that was seen at your event. Not sure what else you want me to say.
I can also verify that Sully is most probably on the list for "attending most PG events". He is a very tireless recruiter, who I think that needs to really get to see the player over several times before he decides that player is right for the program. He is a large part of the success Clemson is enjoying. I have said on many occasions here, if you want to be seen by Clemson, go to a PG event. I happened to have called him a few weeks back, guess where he was!?
I am not really understanding why you are being so touchy about this. I appreciate what you have said about people reading and following my opinions, but understand my opinion is THAT of a PARENT and will always be so, not a professional, or one of those that continuously hide behind some name but claim they know the business well. You are one of the few credible ones here for parents to rely on.
I think what OldVaman said is the plain and simple truth. You have to go where they are - unless you are a major stud.
And you need to prepare WISELY as to WHICH ones to go to - and WHEN. Especially if you are from the northern parts of the country.
I am not shy about discussing my failures - because I think it may help others avoid the same mistakes - so here goes.
My eldest son went to only one PG showcase. He played in a bunch of PG tournaments over the years - but only attended 1 showcase). The underclassman event in Ft Myers in 2001 I think. At the time we lived in NY.
Idiotically - I sent him there in January. Never once did I even give it a thought that sending him in January might be a bad idea. Not once.
It was him - and a couple hundred kids from the South.
Take a guess what happened. LOL
He was ranked poorly - and I know it hurt him.
But it was our fault - not PG's.
I think parents do have a responsibility to help guide their young players as best as they can. I failed in that regard - and I hope others read this and understand - that if you go to a Top showcase like a PG event - you not only need to choose the right venue - you also need to make sure your son is ready to play.
Otherwise - you are just wasting your money. IMO
And you need to prepare WISELY as to WHICH ones to go to - and WHEN. Especially if you are from the northern parts of the country.
I am not shy about discussing my failures - because I think it may help others avoid the same mistakes - so here goes.
My eldest son went to only one PG showcase. He played in a bunch of PG tournaments over the years - but only attended 1 showcase). The underclassman event in Ft Myers in 2001 I think. At the time we lived in NY.
Idiotically - I sent him there in January. Never once did I even give it a thought that sending him in January might be a bad idea. Not once.
It was him - and a couple hundred kids from the South.
Take a guess what happened. LOL
He was ranked poorly - and I know it hurt him.
But it was our fault - not PG's.
I think parents do have a responsibility to help guide their young players as best as they can. I failed in that regard - and I hope others read this and understand - that if you go to a Top showcase like a PG event - you not only need to choose the right venue - you also need to make sure your son is ready to play.
Otherwise - you are just wasting your money. IMO
Take it from one who has done everything I could for my son to play baseball. The last three years I have payed alot of money for him to play baseball at what has been described as the #1 youth baseball program in the nation. That, I believe was a waste of my money. We changed schools when he went into high school so he could play at the highest level possible. Now after all that, I can't afford to send him anywhere right now. He was invited to the PG event at ECB in Sept., but won't be able to attend. I simply can't afford it right now. He was invited to an elite invitation only (no advertisement) camp at a large southeastern D-1 school last fall. The coach was commenting on showcases. He said that everytime you turn around there is another showcase. He would rather you come to his camp so his coaches can work with you and get to know you, if your interested in his program. I didn't post this to bash anyone or any program. Just to post what "I" have learned and what "I" would do different.
1. Find a good program with more than a name. Find a program where "all" the coaches are there for the advancement of their players. Not the enlargement of their egos. Don't pay for a name.
2. If you want to do a PG event, fine. Don't try and do every one of the 50 or 60 or whatever it is they have a year. Do one and then do a Blue Grey. I believe the coaches at Blue Grey are more personable that the ones I've seen around PG events. Maybe they were just having a bad day. Who knows. Maybe just me but I think Blue Grey trys to limit the number of players at showcases a little more.
3. When your son turns 16 do an MLB tryout for the experience. They are free. Puma tryouts and showcases are inexpensive.
4. Decide what schools your son is interested in and get him in front of the coaches at those schools.
5. Study..........study some more. That's one thing we did verg good with.
As it turns out, my son has been called and met with the first D-1 coach who seems interested. And contacted by a second D-1 coach. We'll see. The bottom line is he does not need baseball to go to school. And that's what it is all about. If you think little Jimmy is going to play pro ball and your going to get free seats behind home plate when he plays in the World Series, you need to check the odds of playing pro ball on another page. He has received academic letters from schools ranging from uGA to Carnegie Mellon University. Don't spend all your money on baseball. There have been a lot of ball players that did not go through PG. Or blue Grey. If your good you'll play. My son's instructer of 5 years was drafted out of high school and never went to PG. I wish all your kids the best of luck, whatever direction they go in. Parents, spend wisely. I apologize if I have offended anyone.
1. Find a good program with more than a name. Find a program where "all" the coaches are there for the advancement of their players. Not the enlargement of their egos. Don't pay for a name.
2. If you want to do a PG event, fine. Don't try and do every one of the 50 or 60 or whatever it is they have a year. Do one and then do a Blue Grey. I believe the coaches at Blue Grey are more personable that the ones I've seen around PG events. Maybe they were just having a bad day. Who knows. Maybe just me but I think Blue Grey trys to limit the number of players at showcases a little more.
3. When your son turns 16 do an MLB tryout for the experience. They are free. Puma tryouts and showcases are inexpensive.
4. Decide what schools your son is interested in and get him in front of the coaches at those schools.
5. Study..........study some more. That's one thing we did verg good with.
As it turns out, my son has been called and met with the first D-1 coach who seems interested. And contacted by a second D-1 coach. We'll see. The bottom line is he does not need baseball to go to school. And that's what it is all about. If you think little Jimmy is going to play pro ball and your going to get free seats behind home plate when he plays in the World Series, you need to check the odds of playing pro ball on another page. He has received academic letters from schools ranging from uGA to Carnegie Mellon University. Don't spend all your money on baseball. There have been a lot of ball players that did not go through PG. Or blue Grey. If your good you'll play. My son's instructer of 5 years was drafted out of high school and never went to PG. I wish all your kids the best of luck, whatever direction they go in. Parents, spend wisely. I apologize if I have offended anyone.
quote:I come here as a parent, with no intention other than to help those out, especially when parents come with concerns they do not have the money to spend and feel somewhat inadequate compared to teh neighbor who has been to every showcase or camp in the US. You might not understand that, but many parents will.
*** thats Tiger Paw Mom,...she understands us,...and we thank her!!! ******
No personal or financial agenda,...I like that!
A good to high rating by organizations such as PG, Team One and Baseball America almost guarantees good D-1 program interest as well as the interest of pro scouts. A good showcase performance and/or rating is what players hope for.
I think the gist of the post is that there are many out there who will promise you the world, yet cannot deliver pizza. There are also players who have the dream but do not meet the requirements to be considered the 'elite' ballplayer.
I have spoken with some good savy ballplayers who know how to win, but they did not understand that showcases are not the places to hit singles. Some pitchers did not grasp that the radar gun was making the calls, not an umpire. Showcases are places where the hardest throwers, the longest hitters and the taller players get big attention. This is the nature of the rating system.
I have always felt that if you conform to the requirements of the rating system, wait for the time when you can perform at the optimum level in the showcase environment. I have found that the best showcase time frame is the summer after sophomore year.
If one has the rating, opportunities to perform on the large stage of that showcase organization will be available.
This usually does away with the need for recruiting services, in which I see little value.
As Fungo advises, pick your spots to lay your money down for the best investment.
I think the gist of the post is that there are many out there who will promise you the world, yet cannot deliver pizza. There are also players who have the dream but do not meet the requirements to be considered the 'elite' ballplayer.
I have spoken with some good savy ballplayers who know how to win, but they did not understand that showcases are not the places to hit singles. Some pitchers did not grasp that the radar gun was making the calls, not an umpire. Showcases are places where the hardest throwers, the longest hitters and the taller players get big attention. This is the nature of the rating system.
I have always felt that if you conform to the requirements of the rating system, wait for the time when you can perform at the optimum level in the showcase environment. I have found that the best showcase time frame is the summer after sophomore year.
If one has the rating, opportunities to perform on the large stage of that showcase organization will be available.
This usually does away with the need for recruiting services, in which I see little value.
As Fungo advises, pick your spots to lay your money down for the best investment.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
If you hit, or get guys out, you will remain playing!!
Aint that the truth!
You may do it in relative obscurity - but you WILL still be playing.
shortstopmom,
This is a great thread with great input from many, those that have pro players, those who have sons playing in college, had sons who played in college, coaches, players , parents going through the proces and professionals in the business.
The smart parent sorts though all that is said and decides which would be the best way to get their player to the next level, if he so desires to do so.
Something I forgot. I'll never forget when son's first showcase invitation arrived, I do beleive he was going into his sophmore year. I asked him if he wanted to attend, he said he had plenty of time to do that. With that being said, we LISTENED to him, and we did what he wanted to do, not what we wanted to do. He finally was ready when he was a junior. I think that is something very important to consider.
My son also had the great opportunity to try out for USA youth team, summer going into sophmore year. I never realized until later that was great exposure for him, and living here in FL, land of the scouts. I also found out that the area MLB scout had been watching him for years. But still in all, we felt that a good mix of senior summer ball, a few showcases and tournaments were still needed, even being one of those lanky over 6 footers throwing 90+ with a 4.2 GPA.
This is a great thread with great input from many, those that have pro players, those who have sons playing in college, had sons who played in college, coaches, players , parents going through the proces and professionals in the business.
The smart parent sorts though all that is said and decides which would be the best way to get their player to the next level, if he so desires to do so.
Something I forgot. I'll never forget when son's first showcase invitation arrived, I do beleive he was going into his sophmore year. I asked him if he wanted to attend, he said he had plenty of time to do that. With that being said, we LISTENED to him, and we did what he wanted to do, not what we wanted to do. He finally was ready when he was a junior. I think that is something very important to consider.
My son also had the great opportunity to try out for USA youth team, summer going into sophmore year. I never realized until later that was great exposure for him, and living here in FL, land of the scouts. I also found out that the area MLB scout had been watching him for years. But still in all, we felt that a good mix of senior summer ball, a few showcases and tournaments were still needed, even being one of those lanky over 6 footers throwing 90+ with a 4.2 GPA.
Many have shared their thoughts on showcases. Some think they're the best thing since sliced bread and others think they're a waste of time and money. But there are a lot of other baseball-related activities that one can choose not to spend a lot of money on. Such as recruiting services, which charge $500-$2000 and up. We'd rather write our own letters and emails for free. How about professionally-made videos? With tips from this site, I believe parents can put together a quality tape for a fraction of the cost. What about the Top Guns camp, which son received an invite to? Between the camp, hotel, meal, and travel cost, we believe our money can be better spent elsewhere, based on comments from parents whose kids have attended. How about the Stanford camp? Great for those who want to attend Stanford or ivy league schools, but not necessary for those who want to stay in the Southwest. I'm sure the list could go on and on....
PG Staff, one question for you. You mentioned Chris Lubanski being a skinny, one-tool kid when he came to his first PG showcase as a freshman. But when I searched for his reports on PG's website, the earliest showcase listed ranked him a 10. Did he score a 10 with only 1 tool?
I just have one question. Did Herman Munster bat righty or lefty? Up until now, I didn't even know he played ball. I must've missed that episode.
I don't know how many individual showcases you should go to. Still pondering that one myself. Seems to me a little will go a long way in that department.
But I'll tell you one thing, the tourneys are just flat-out FUN. It's a form of vacation. Don't count that as a recruiting expense. If your son gets recruiting brownie points out of it, great. But whether he did or didn't, your son got to play baseball and you got to watch and in my book, that's better than a day at the beach anytime. And if he never plays a single game at any college or in the pros, you'll be glad when you look back in 20 years and remember those tourney trips.
I don't know how many individual showcases you should go to. Still pondering that one myself. Seems to me a little will go a long way in that department.
But I'll tell you one thing, the tourneys are just flat-out FUN. It's a form of vacation. Don't count that as a recruiting expense. If your son gets recruiting brownie points out of it, great. But whether he did or didn't, your son got to play baseball and you got to watch and in my book, that's better than a day at the beach anytime. And if he never plays a single game at any college or in the pros, you'll be glad when you look back in 20 years and remember those tourney trips.
quote:Posted by TPM: I can also verify that Sully is most probably on the list for "attending most PG events". He is a very tireless recruiter
You can say that again. We traveled to a bunch of tournaments Jr. to Sr. years in high school plus Area Code Tryouts. That Sully was always there. Not just PG events, either. Like a bunch of others, he was all over.
Herman was able to hit the ball out from either side of the plate in his tryout for the Dodgers and Leo Durocher.
The Munsters: "Herman the Rookie"
Season 1, Episode 29
First aired: April 8, 1965
by Jason Warren
Starring Fred Gwynne, Yvonne De Carlo, Al Lewis, Pat Priest and Butch Patrick. Guest starring Leo Durocher, Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch, Gene Darfler and Ken Hunt.
The Munsters: "Herman the Rookie"
Season 1, Episode 29
First aired: April 8, 1965
by Jason Warren
Starring Fred Gwynne, Yvonne De Carlo, Al Lewis, Pat Priest and Butch Patrick. Guest starring Leo Durocher, Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch, Gene Darfler and Ken Hunt.
I for one have really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to all who have put their two cents in,...this kind of discussion is why I keep coming back to the HSBBW and continue to tell others I know about it. Great info and opinions!
Great thread - this ones a keeper.
Hope everyone will tolerate a few thoughts from someone just getting a taste of the recruiting/marketing dance. We are still early in the process as well (08 pitcher) however I must say the one showcase (PG National Underclass) my son did attend was an incredible growing experience for him.
Living up north he really wasn't sure where he stacked up against the better players in the country. Until he got a chance to go up against some of those players on what has be referred to as “the lists" you just don’t know were you stack up. Roll the tape forward... he ended up doing well in the showcase, received a good rating and most importantly left the showcase knowing he could compete with anyone. Yes it wasn’t cheap and it was hard to leave our family 2 days after Christmas to attend this particular showcase. However for him to realize that he might realistically have a chance to fulfill his dream of playing college ball one day was a life changing experience for him (and for me). I don’t know if any pro scouts or college recruiters saw him pitch however more importantly what he saw in himself is what mattered the most that weekend. The confidence he now has in himself has help take him to a new level since that time.
Do we plan a steady diet of showcases, probably not but I do think doing a couple the summer of his junior year isn’t out of line. I will say that I think the WWB events are better than most events and we hope to attend these events as often as possible. Let’s not kid ourselves, if you child has aspirations of playing any sport at the next level there is going to be sacrifices, both financial and socially. Talk to families with aspiring hockey, s****r, tennis or gymnastic kids. Baseball is no different than any other sport. Does attending these events mean he is going to get a big offer from a top 50 school, who knows? But from my short experience thus far, the experiences he is having playing baseball at a higher level are worth every penny!
Hope everyone will tolerate a few thoughts from someone just getting a taste of the recruiting/marketing dance. We are still early in the process as well (08 pitcher) however I must say the one showcase (PG National Underclass) my son did attend was an incredible growing experience for him.
Living up north he really wasn't sure where he stacked up against the better players in the country. Until he got a chance to go up against some of those players on what has be referred to as “the lists" you just don’t know were you stack up. Roll the tape forward... he ended up doing well in the showcase, received a good rating and most importantly left the showcase knowing he could compete with anyone. Yes it wasn’t cheap and it was hard to leave our family 2 days after Christmas to attend this particular showcase. However for him to realize that he might realistically have a chance to fulfill his dream of playing college ball one day was a life changing experience for him (and for me). I don’t know if any pro scouts or college recruiters saw him pitch however more importantly what he saw in himself is what mattered the most that weekend. The confidence he now has in himself has help take him to a new level since that time.
Do we plan a steady diet of showcases, probably not but I do think doing a couple the summer of his junior year isn’t out of line. I will say that I think the WWB events are better than most events and we hope to attend these events as often as possible. Let’s not kid ourselves, if you child has aspirations of playing any sport at the next level there is going to be sacrifices, both financial and socially. Talk to families with aspiring hockey, s****r, tennis or gymnastic kids. Baseball is no different than any other sport. Does attending these events mean he is going to get a big offer from a top 50 school, who knows? But from my short experience thus far, the experiences he is having playing baseball at a higher level are worth every penny!
quote:Originally posted by jerseydad:
Great thread - this ones a keeper.
Living up north he really wasn't sure where he stacked up against the better players in the country. Until he got a chance to go up against some of those players on what has be referred to as “the lists" you just don’t know were you stack up. Roll the tape forward... he ended up doing well in the showcase, received a good rating and most importantly left the showcase knowing he could compete with anyone.
I do beleive I have stated a few times that this is a very important aspect in considering a showcase.
Ok got a question ,what do you guys think?
You have 50 list players, half never attended a showcase or wood bat tourney has a ranking. Other half has had exposure at a showcase, tournament and been ranked and rated. All have GPA's from mid 2 to over 4.
Many ,many coaches in attendance who have obviously come to watch these particular players.
All will get opportunities to play beyond HS in college (this is not a pro question), which ones do you think would get the better opportunity, the ones seen, the ones not seen. Does it matter? How much does the GPA come into the picture?
By opportunity I mean scholarship $$ and better program, conference, academic and baseball.
You have 50 list players, half never attended a showcase or wood bat tourney has a ranking. Other half has had exposure at a showcase, tournament and been ranked and rated. All have GPA's from mid 2 to over 4.
Many ,many coaches in attendance who have obviously come to watch these particular players.
All will get opportunities to play beyond HS in college (this is not a pro question), which ones do you think would get the better opportunity, the ones seen, the ones not seen. Does it matter? How much does the GPA come into the picture?
By opportunity I mean scholarship $$ and better program, conference, academic and baseball.
What does rain and Florida have to do with the question?
And what are the hystorical results?
And what are the hystorical results?
Please... Do track the historical results... we have left many links in a previous thread to help track the results! There is no reason to attend the October tournament in Jupiter unless you believe in the historical results!
I would feel as if I was misleading people if they got the impression I was against showcasing and PG in particular because I’m not. I have recommended showcasing and PG to many parents. I have given them the email address and the web address. I appreciate TPM being so honest about her feelings about showcasing and I think we can learn a lot from her openness and her ability to put those feelings into words. Her honesty has sparked many constructive discussions on this subject. I also commend PGStaff for being the spokesperson for the showcase industry but in doing so he is putting a personalized name to “showcase” and that funnels most of this criticism toward Perfect Game and that may not be fair. PG is really the benchmark for showcases in my opinion. I don’t agree with everything they do, but they are obviously the ground breakers in the showcasing industry. Many people have asked me why my son never attended a PG event and I have two answers. Number one it was not in our budget and number two, it became evident to me he didn’t NEED to go to go to PG event. There are lots of high profile players that don’t NEED to go to PG events but somehow they show up there. Are they succumbing to the showcase recruiting pressure or are they showcasing simply for that “ego rush” that comes with being the best on the field? I know they weren’t desperate for a college scholarship because these players already had boxes of recruiting mail and the grapevine was buzzing with rumors of their college scholarships and draft positions. Funny how it works, the ones that DON’T NEED to go are always the ones that are used as examples of why everyone else should go. Oh well. Everyone warned me this recruiting would be an emotional roller coaster ride. What they failed to tell me is I would still be talking about it four years later ---
Fungo
Oh well. Everyone warned me this recruiting would be an emotional roller coaster ride. What they failed to tell me is I would still be talking about it four years later --- Fungo
quote:Funny how it works, the ones that DON’T NEED to go are always the ones that are used as examples of why everyone else should go.
Fungo,
I along with many others have the utmost respect when you speak! What many don't understand is I'm not trying to sell or promote anything here. In fact, I wouldn't have gotten involved in this discussion had it not been for another thread where you mentioned it.
I really don't care who attends what... It's not about Perfect Game... I first saw your talented son at East Coast Pro... I first saw BBScouts son at Area Codes. If a player ever gets inviteed to these type events he needs to attend. It can open many doors!
As for who needs to attend... Who can truthfully answer that question? Sooner or later playing with and against the top competition answers many questions about a player. Until that happens there will always be some questions!
I'm really not interested in every Tom, Dick and Harry attending a high profile event. I and many other people, more important in baseball, are very interested in seeing the best vs the best possible competition.
There is no need to SELL or promote anything! It's actually the truth!
Old Slugger,
You are way off base! Please leave this alone! Your son is very welcome. I wish him the very best. Where could anyone think that a player was banned from attending something? Please explain.
You are way off base! Please leave this alone! Your son is very welcome. I wish him the very best. Where could anyone think that a player was banned from attending something? Please explain.
Sluggo,
You are posting and deleting your own posts so fast I can't keep up. We wish your son the very most success possible!
You are posting and deleting your own posts so fast I can't keep up. We wish your son the very most success possible!
This has been a really good thread, let's try to keep it that way.
PG,
I don't think OS8 meant all that was said, that's why the deletions.
I'll leave this one with Shep's ending, if he doesn't mind.
Peace.
PG,
I don't think OS8 meant all that was said, that's why the deletions.
I'll leave this one with Shep's ending, if he doesn't mind.
Peace.
quote:PG Staff, one question for you. You mentioned Chris Lubanski being a skinny, one-tool kid when he came to his first PG showcase as a freshman. But when I searched for his reports on PG's website, the earliest showcase listed ranked him a 10. Did he score a 10 with only 1 tool?
Infield08,
Actually Chris was first graded a 9, maybe the listing you found did not include his very first event with us.
He was graded a 9 because we thought he was extremely projectable. We thought his arm, hitting ability, power and fielding ability would all improve dramatically. This was due in part to his extremely high grade in make up. Not to brag, but we were correct!
The Boss and Godfather is absolutely correct several posts back here in this thread. It doesn't matter where the best players are, they will be seen at these high profile events whether it be Area Code, East Coast Pro(Lakeland next year) or PG sponsored events.
The other VERY ASTUTE point PG Jerry just brought up was one point I discussed with many at the West Coast AFLAC ALL-AMERICAN activities with several different top decision makers. These discussions directly confirm what Jerry said which is in the area of evaluating the best talent against the best talent. That's what it's all about. The opportunities for scout evaluations to come from good pitching against good hitting are few and far between, and many times skewed and not reliable at local events. Often times, evaluations of hitters and pitchers can only be taken against competition not considered advanced HS much less professional or college skill level. In these cases, it is difficult to write an honest and unbiased report of the best available HS talent because of the caliber the prospect is up against.
Furthermore, PG Jerry has been helpful and never used this board to promote anything but the sons of good families who dream and aspire to further baseball careers and I for one appreciate his long hours, tireless effort and dedication to this game we "all" love and have great passion for. I also believe Jerry and his wife Betty are ambassadors to the game and should be recognized by Major League Baseball for all their contributions to baseball and our youth. In fact, HOF induction would not be out-of-line at all. We should all sign a petition and recommend this to the office of MLB and the commissioner. I'm being very serious here.
Peace,
Shep
The other VERY ASTUTE point PG Jerry just brought up was one point I discussed with many at the West Coast AFLAC ALL-AMERICAN activities with several different top decision makers. These discussions directly confirm what Jerry said which is in the area of evaluating the best talent against the best talent. That's what it's all about. The opportunities for scout evaluations to come from good pitching against good hitting are few and far between, and many times skewed and not reliable at local events. Often times, evaluations of hitters and pitchers can only be taken against competition not considered advanced HS much less professional or college skill level. In these cases, it is difficult to write an honest and unbiased report of the best available HS talent because of the caliber the prospect is up against.
Furthermore, PG Jerry has been helpful and never used this board to promote anything but the sons of good families who dream and aspire to further baseball careers and I for one appreciate his long hours, tireless effort and dedication to this game we "all" love and have great passion for. I also believe Jerry and his wife Betty are ambassadors to the game and should be recognized by Major League Baseball for all their contributions to baseball and our youth. In fact, HOF induction would not be out-of-line at all. We should all sign a petition and recommend this to the office of MLB and the commissioner. I'm being very serious here.
Peace,
Shep
Shep,
Thanks, but you're full of it!
Sluggo,
Please understand that we have nothing against you and especially your son. I hope he ends up in the big leagues and I mean that. That is when you'll understand that all this other stuff is meaningless. We have ranked several players very high who never attended a PG event. We have also ranked players way too low who have attended PG events. Baseball does not revolve around what we do or say!
Thanks, but you're full of it!
Sluggo,
Please understand that we have nothing against you and especially your son. I hope he ends up in the big leagues and I mean that. That is when you'll understand that all this other stuff is meaningless. We have ranked several players very high who never attended a PG event. We have also ranked players way too low who have attended PG events. Baseball does not revolve around what we do or say!
Shep,
You are absolutely correct in stating the best is judged against the best. I think we know that we've had many discussions on that.
The whole point of the thread is what works within your budget, to be able to have your player seen.
I brought up the question which wasn't answered because I am a firm beleiver that it's important to see how you measure up against better competition. Games such as Aflac, East Coast pro, area code certainly are good examples. A good portion of players do not get that opportunity. I think that what some are saying is that you don't have to feel that you will be missing anything (some feel maybe you might) if you don't get those opportunities. I know mine never attended any of the above still got to attend a good school with a fine scholarship. Would he have become a better pro prospect if he had, who knows. There are a lot of players who did attend those events in 04 and no where to be seen.
You are absolutely correct in stating the best is judged against the best. I think we know that we've had many discussions on that.
The whole point of the thread is what works within your budget, to be able to have your player seen.
I brought up the question which wasn't answered because I am a firm beleiver that it's important to see how you measure up against better competition. Games such as Aflac, East Coast pro, area code certainly are good examples. A good portion of players do not get that opportunity. I think that what some are saying is that you don't have to feel that you will be missing anything (some feel maybe you might) if you don't get those opportunities. I know mine never attended any of the above still got to attend a good school with a fine scholarship. Would he have become a better pro prospect if he had, who knows. There are a lot of players who did attend those events in 04 and no where to be seen.
Sorry Boss, it sounded good anyway.
Thanks TPM, you know you have my permission and thank you.
peace sisterquote:Originally posted by Shepster:
Sorry Boss, it sounded good anyway.
Thanks TPM, you know you have my permission and thank you.
I am NOT your sister!
TPM says>
I don't mind because it is my hope that this word will be universal soon and the fighting in the Middle East will end but I do mind the response to sister. I meant that as "truce" and a sincere thank you
Was your nasty response really necessary? How unprofessional of you. Try to make amends with someone who has done nothing but snipe and this is the thanks I get in return. Go figure...DUH peace
quote:I'll leave this one with Shep's ending, if he doesn't mind.
Peace.
I don't mind because it is my hope that this word will be universal soon and the fighting in the Middle East will end but I do mind the response to sister. I meant that as "truce" and a sincere thank you
Was your nasty response really necessary? How unprofessional of you. Try to make amends with someone who has done nothing but snipe and this is the thanks I get in return. Go figure...DUH
peace
Sorry Shep, but where I come from sister is not always said in a positive light when said from a "gentleman" and not exchanged between professionals.
I have two brothers, all I can handle actually.
If it was meant as a truce and thank you, I do apologize.
I have two brothers, all I can handle actually.
If it was meant as a truce and thank you, I do apologize.
Apology accepted TPM and I'll try to be more aware in the future of our geographical backgrounds and differences because you are correct, some words mean different things in different places but I wish to re-assure you that it was meant in a good way and not negative. Appreciate the response and I am truly working on developing a better relationship with you here because I think you're very smart and write extremely well and convey the meaning of messages posted to readers in a very intelligent manner. peace TPM