Cost of being recruited

Many of us hope you are right, but it is an uphill battle. I've many friends in the game and insist that it has to be done or you can forget it; your schools to small for coaches to recruit, they don't have the time to follow all leads, coaches don’t or won’t do anything to help a kid, etc. I know some folks who have their kids on several travel teams as well as attending as many showcases as they can schedule. When I question the sanity of it all the answer is it is the way it works now. “This isn’t recreational ball anymore. The kid has to play against the best talent to get better”, and so you have to spend the money to put them on those teams.

My pocketbook, only allows so much and I want development along with exposure and I'm afraid a thousand dollars a season, every season is not in my budget.

It's tough but lets not make it tougher than it really is. Obrady, it's only human nature for those that spend excessive money to tell you they are doing the "right" thing and you need to do it too. It gets insane. I have actually seen players showcase on the east coast, pack their bags hop a plane and head directly to the west coast to showcase. In talking to these parents they seem to look at this showcasing as something more than exposure. It becomes some sort of accomplishment or something that adds to their son's resume.
Fungo

Have to agree with Fungo on this one. Son was at the PG Northeast Underclass Monday and Tuesday. He's just entering his jr year and that's the only showcase he opted to request an invite to this year. While sitting in the stands I overheard numerous discussions between parents who's sons had attended one or more college camps, and three or four showcases already and have additional camps and showcases scheduled through Labor Day. Even if I had the finances to make that happen, I wouldn't. I don't see the need to have my son attend a showcase run by every major showcase association and attend camps at schools he's not serious about attending.

Felt pretty good about my line of thinking when, on Tuesday morning, John Lester, LHP for the Red Sox, addressed the boys (and parents) and, when asked about showcases and such, told those assembled that he recommended they limit activity to one or two showcases. He said its not a good idea to burn your son out by having him play year round ball and attend a lot of showcases and camps. He said a couple of good showcases are all that's actually necessary to get your son in front of enough scouts and recruiters to get his name in circulation. He also said that he did not play baseball year round and he attended a total of 4 showcase events between his sophomore and senior years. He ended up being the first player the Red Sox took in the 2002 draft.

We saw some really talented ballplayers in the past couple of days, and some guys that are really average. I don't know which players have parents showcasing them all over the place, but I have to believe the ones who were outstanding won't be hurt by a lighter schedule and the ones who are average probably won't be helped.

quote:

I have to believe the ones who were outstanding won't be hurt by a lighter schedule and the ones who are average probably won't be helped

I agree with this entirely. I don't have any thing against showcasing. My son only did local showcases and a couple of camps due to a limited budget. He always played ball year round, but that was because of a love for playing..... not to be seen. He also bypassed more elite teams to stay with his HS teammates because that's where he felt HE belonged.

I think as Fungo said, that many of us recommend paths we took though because it worked for us. We must all realize that we have different goals and expectations for our kids and they do for themselves as well. For some, to spend $1000s of dollars travelling across the country doesn't intrude on their budget and they will feel it contributed to Jr receiving multiple offers from big schools. Bottom line: your son only needs the offer from the school with the right fit!

KmomNH.

Hi, First off....How did it go for your son?

I am of the same beliefs as Kmom on this, my son is the same age as hers, and he is not doing any of these events this summer. In my opinion and his, he is not ready to do them.

He had a good sophmore year in HS, but tailed off at the end of it. He did ok at Legion over the summer, but now realizes he did not put the real effort and work in that is required to be successful at these levels of ball. He has started to rededicate himself into the conditoning and drill work. We have agreed that if he continues this and there is a levle of consistency with both his pitching and hitting that then we will begin to look at a couple of events. We are certainly not going to be spending next summer going from showcase to showcase though. There were many players on his legion team this summer going to different camp/showcase type events. Some of the boys are definitely ready for it and I am sure will get some extra looks because of it. A few of them were just wasting money in my opinion.

At this point, I truely believe my son would be one of those average players if he attended one. Even worse, the expectations for him would be more than his current skills would live up to. The expectations that have always come because of his physical size and the "potential" he posseses. His is 6'5", just under 200 lbs and a lefty.

I beleive it is very important while you are trying to figure out what level of financial commitment you can put into this, that you are brutally honest with yourself and your son. It is one thing to be a stand out locally, it is indeed something else to go away from the comfort level of home and compete for a roster spot and playing time. We have done this, and it allows us and our son to realize that just having "potential" is not enough. If he is not willing to get up in the morning and take that run, or get the weight work done, or do the drills for his pitching delivery, he is not ready to be given the opportunity to go to a showcase event. You as a parent MUST be ready to say no if you dont see the commitment on his part. In my opinion, this is absolutely critical if you have other children and also want to give them the best of opportunities in what ever endeavors they are involved in.

Kmom and I are in similar situations. We both have only the one son and that allows us to focus the time and money to provide these opportunitites for them. We both have gone through difficult times with our own professions at the same time we were doing the AAU scene all over New England.

I strongly believe her son has done a tremendous job over the past couple of years and has positioned himself to get the maximum he can from this game. I have told her many times privately, and will state it again here openly....She should be (and I know she is) extremely proud of how he has handled himself and his desire to play the game. I am very glad for him and for her.

A parent will want to do everything in their power to give their a child as many chances at a achieving their dream.

If a player is going to many showcases and camps then one would think they are just an average player to continue to seek exposure.

Fungo.....outstanding post with which I wholeheartedly agree!

Thanks for sharing such fabulous thoughts!

quote:

A parent will want to do everything in their power to give their a child as many chances at a achieving their dream.

I agree this is probably close to correct in most situations. Unfortunately for the many parents who spend a lot of money, the issue ultimately, and I think correctly, focuses itself on "Can you play?" and "If so, how well?"
Personally, I think Fungo provides great guidance and insight into the process and he provides it with the knowledge he gained during Josh's recruiting and combines it with his skill, experience and ability to look back and analyze.
If you are a very top player, college and pro scouts are going to find you.
Showcasing/travel teams/recruiting services, etc "service" the vast majority of players at the next levels. In many circumstances they are for parents who are not very confident about their son's ability or who cannot assess where their son fits on a comparative basis with others.
Showcasing/travel teams/recruiting organizations also seem to be a byproduct of the all important "signing with a DI" and/or announcing a "scholarship."
Having the opportunity to look back, I agree those are moments of pride for parents and for sons.
Honestly, though, they are short lived and, to me at least, absolutely the wrong emphasis. Maybe I am rationalizing because our son played football and baseball and stayed with his local legion team, with his only major college exposure being at the Stanford Camp. He ended up at a DIII where he proved he could play and, in effect, used summer wood bat leagues to "showcase" his ability to compete well with those at the highest levels of DI.
If he had showcased more in high school, his subsequent success suggests he may well have ended up at a DI program. However, he would never change the choice of the DIII that he made and whether he played DI or DIII, would likely not have changed whether he got drafted and would still be playing.
As Fungo concludes, and I fully agree, all the showcases/travel teams/recruiting services probably don't end up changing the end result too much. The ultimate result is determined by how well you play and how much you improve and adjust. The ultimate result is governed by the efforts of the player, no matter how hard or how much the parents might try to make it different.

quote:

If you live within a budget then I would have a separate baseball budget and spend accordingly. Ignore the marketing hype and work YOUR plan.

Great post Fungo!

When you say "WORK YOUR PLAN", you are so right. I would add however that you need to be somewhat flexible with that plan. Almost 4 years ago our plan on paper was easy, a good academic D1 school, with a positive baseball program, and we thought we had a fit from day 1. Our problem was we are one of the Tundra tribes from the North and that only D1 in WI never even recruited the kid . There goes the plan and all of a sudden we had to do the dreaded "Out of State" march. Change in plans, and our baseball fund was turned upside down in his Junior year.

Bottom line is the recruiting dollar can be significant on the surface, but in many cases the potential out of State tuition costs were X-fold more than the pre-college baseball fund. I am a tight wad and do not have real deep pockets but while we didn't need all the marketing hype options that were out there we did know that they were available and took a "you can pay me now or pay me later" approach.

Cheapest way to get noticed is by playing on the best select team your son can PLAY on. You do not get noticed by collecting trophys. Second you don't
need to travel across the country to support the economy just be aware to what caliber of competition you will be playing against.
Most larger cities have AABC affilation leagues
that bring large numbers of scouts in for state and
regional qualifier games. Here in Dallas, scouts easily out numbered parents and fans in stands.
Everything PG and others do for you, you can do yourself.Its all so more rewarding

It just so happens our staff has been working on statistics that relate to this topic. At the risk of sounding like we are bragging here are some of the results. The entire list will appear on our site shortly. It does show that there are some players recruited at these colleges without attending our PG events. We are not sure if those players attended other showcase events. The truth is... 80% to 90% of players signing with top 50 type programs have attendeed PG events. Not sure exactly what that means.

Here is a partial list:

Miami FL Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know every year nearly every recruit attended PG events
Oklahoma State Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know they are mostly recruits who were at PG events
Stanford Don’t have results of recruiting class yet, but know they are mostly recruits who were at PG events
LSU 17 of 20 recruits attended PG events
Arkansas 15 of 21 recruits attended PG events
Texas 14 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Florida 14 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Clemson 14 of 15 recruits attended PG events
Texas A&M 14 of 16 recruits attended PG events
Georgia 14 of 16 recruits attended PG events
South Carolina 13 of 18 recruits attended PG events
North Carolina 12 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Baylor 10 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Arizona State 12 of 18 recruits attended PG events
Oklahoma 9 of 14 recruits attended PG events
Arizona 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
Alabama 9 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Auburn 9 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Kentucky 9 of 17 recruits attended PG events
Ole Miss 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
Florida Atlantic 9 of 11 recruits attended PG events
California 8 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Tennessee 8 of 8 recruits attended PG events
South Florida 8 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Georgia Southern 8 of 9 recruits attended PG events
UCLA 7 of 8 recruits attended PG events
Florida International 7 of 8 recruits attended PG events
Santa Clara 7 of 10 recruits attended PG events
South Alabama 7 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Stetson 7 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Nebraska 7 of 12 recruits attended PG events
Florida State 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Georgia Tech 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Virginia 6 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Rice 6 of 9 recruits attended PG events
Notre Dame 7 of 10 recruits attended PG events
Mississippi State 6 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Louisville 6 of 8 recruits attended PG events
North Carolina State 5 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Vanderbilt 4 of 6 recruits attended PG events
Virginia Tech 2 of 3 recruits attended PG events
Wake Forest 4 of 5 recruits attended PG events
Houston 5 of 7 recruits attended PG events
Tulane 4 of 5 recruits attended PG events
TCU 5 of 6 recruits attended PG events

Sometimes, the exposure you need isn't as much with college coaches as it is for him to see he belongs. I think that's what my son got out of showcasing more than anything else.

We set a budget before our oldest's Junior year of roughly $2,500. He stayed with his Legion team to the end because he felt a responsibility there, so we didn't do the select team thing. We went for a couple of showcases and a couple of college camps.

Certainly, we made some mistakes. But looking back on it, he came out OK.

He has one year of eligilibity left and three semesters of school. He's starting to look at the game differently. He's beginning to think long-term; he's talking to people he knows and has met about perhaps coaching.

Everybody has to work with a budget. But in our case, I think there is a value (that I'm seeing in him now) to the program we put together in high school.

.

Question...Why do we assume that the spending of this $ has to be considered wasted if a player does not get recruited heavily or signed?

IMO, you spend the money predominantly because it is a way for players and parent to spend some all-to-rare time together enjoying a common interest and learning life lessons....if it leads to something more then great. But if the ONLY reason that the money is being spend is the result then you have wasted the trip. And for many of us who have been there the trip IS the goal, the same way as any activity that unites the family.

For us the scholarship was nice, but from a financial standpoint hardly worth the amount of effort, money, time, and emotion. Frankly it doesn't pencil showcases, travel teams or not. But the trip does hold priceless memories of dusty ball fields, of moments of acheivement, of loss, of love, of humor, of just being a family on the road hour after hour connecting in a way that few families have the opportunity to do now a days with their sons.

While yes, there is a certain egotistical pride in the day we won the game and he signed the NLI, I can tell you now that all the high school, travel and recruiting ball is over that it is the trips, the moments of glory, the smiles, the tears, that I will remember, and cherish and miss the most. NOT how much money we did or didn't spend.

And as for me I'd spend twice that much, and put myself into debit (and have) just to have all those trips and all those moments together again, regardless of what it cost and what it did or didn't lead to.

After collegiate summer ball this year I could have flown him home, cheaply, but drove 20 hours there and 20 hours back just to connect. The trip made NO financial, or physical sense and it did not lead to any baseball epiphany or award but I can tell you that it was worth every penny spent on gas and every mile we traveled together.

44
.

PGStaff,
You know I am pro showcase (within reason) but I want people to thing about the showcase phenomenon and how it has impacted the recruiting cycle. Your list is very impressive! However it only proves to me that Perfect Games is very effective in identifying talent, recruiting talent, and assembling talent and everyone knows talented players have always been recruited in the past and will always be recruited in the future with or without Perfect Game. Your list perpetuates this showcase phenomenon to the emotionally involved parent. It appears these players “must” go thru the PG pipeline to secure a scholarship but in reality these players are recruited and funneled thru the PG events by effective identification, recruiting, marketing, and execution of their showcases. As a former businessman (retired last month) I realize you have a great business plan and as your name implies, you have executed it to perfection. You have a very good reputation and I know you offer a service that is beneficial to the player needing exposure. But in my opinion showcasing has become excessive and has turned into a very expensive “ritual” for the uninformed parent. This over-showcasing has turned recruiting into something other than what it needs to be. Are these events “bad”? Absolutely NOT! They are very effective venues for showcasing a player’s talent to those coaches in attendance. But they are expensive and the misconception that about exposure has put some parents between a financial rock and a hard place. If multiple showcases and excessive exposure were needed I would be the first to sound the alarm. Let’s take a closer look at your stats ---

You say: “ The truth is... 80% to 90% of players signing with top 50 type programs have attendeed PG events. Not sure exactly what that means.”
It only means they attended a PG event ---- period. However I’m pretty good at reading between the lines and in doing so it suggest ---- “Statistics prove in order to attend a top 50 program odds are you must attend a PG event”--- and I have a problem with that suggestion.
One could say 100% played high school baseball and 97% played on better than average summer teams but in terms of playing for a top 50 team these percentages are meaningless. It simply means this is what those players did prior to signing with their college.

I wonder ---- With the increase of PG events and other showcases are we seeing an increase in scholarships being given to baseball players?
and---As PG fine tunes their showcases are you seeing a higher percentage of your attendees being signed to top 50 programs?
One final question: Do showcases make the player ---OR --- Do players make the showcase ---OR --- do they compliment each other?
Fungo

Fungo - Terrific thread!

On the one hand I know, FOR SURE, that showcases helped our son gain exposure and attain the options that we desired for him. At least 3 of his 5 final college choices "found" him at a showcase. It opened other doors too...an opportunity to play for the USA Jr. National team, an AFLAC selection. These memories can never be replaced. We remain very grateful to PG and TeamOne for those opportunitites. THANK YOU PGStaff!

On the other hand, I hear parents today being sucked in when it is either a waste of their money and time or they really don't need it anyways. Just a few weeks ago a father of a boy I believe has no chance, whatsoever, to play college ball told me he wants to sit down and discuss which showcases his son should attend. Should my answer be none?

I see organizations starting to run showcases that I don't think know anything about running showcases. What good will it do? Make money for them?

And I've said this before and unfortunately I believe its not fully appreciated why I have this view...but I see parents of 13-year olds starting to consider paying $$ for showcases for their sons. WHY!?!? Can we just let kids be kids a little while longer?! Do these events even need to exist? WHY?!?!?

Fungo...you are a wise man. Your advice at the beginning of this thread is very good advice and should be read carefully by any parent of a HS ballplayer. I too am pro-showcase. But the panic I hear from today's HS parents is unnecessary and I hope HS parents will re-read what Fungo has to say about this. It is good advice. Have a plan. Have a budget. Don't get caught swinging at empty air.

Observer44 and Fungo - great posts IMO.

Observer - if one were to look at it from a purely financial perspective - 99% of the parents who go through this process would be making what could only be described as idiotic financial decisions.
The "pot at the end of the college baseball recruiting rainbow" is filled with a bag of donuts and a couple bucks for the vast majority of players/parents. Its the trip - not the destination - I agree.

Fungo - your post is thought provoking in many ways. What really caught my eye was the schools listed. There were about 45. All big namers.
I would love to know about the other 900 or so schools as well to get a complete picture.

What I have seen more than ever with the young players is the shift away from actually playing the game and winning as a team - and towards a showcase mentality.
What is my time in the 60? - how hard am I throwing? - what is my bat speed? etc...

I hear less and less about actually playing the game - and more and more about "tools" and being "toolsy" (God I hate that word).

If I see one more "toolsy" player in a baseball game playing like garbage - I am going to puke.

So many great posts in this thread

Fungo - congrats on your retirement - may that allow you to travel the country following your son playing baseball.

OldVaman - good point about the showcase letting your son measure his abilities against others.

justbb - What do you tell the father? I would say ob44 has provided excellent advice. Use the event as a way to experience something as a family, and then maybe the results are secondary to that end. If the parent has the wherewithall to afford the events, what does it matter at the end of the day how many they attend? As ob44 points out, there can be value in merely doing certain things.

its - you see the same stuff going on in other sports as well. Every year guys get drafted in the NFL and all you hear about is their great combine numbers but not a lot said about their productivity on the field. You then watch these same individuals play and just scratch your head

Fungo, Observer44, Itsinthegame,

Thank you for your insight and expereinces on this very tricky subject.

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself & my family it is greatly appreciated. As we are at the beginning of this adventure, your input is invaluable to us.


PGstaff,

I agree with the others that your organization has done a great job, but in regards to your numbers....

How many of those players would have ended up where they did or in an equivalent program if PG did not exist? My guess would be most of them. The overhelming majority of the schools you listed are cream of the crop. The players they are recruiting would obviously be the very top of those available each year. If a player being looked at by Miami did not actually get selected to attend Miami, I am sure any of the other schools you listed would be very interested in him.

Perhaps a better statistical breakdown would be one done by a 3rd party that would show all the showcase type of events attended by a player and the schools that eventually extended offers to him.

As I stated earlier, I know of a few boys here that at 16 have already gone to multiple events (I dont know if any were PG events), and to be honest several of these boys may not even crack the starting lineups on their HS squads this next year. Yet their parents are spending $$ and traveling all over to put the kids into these events.

Fungo and others,

There are thousands of showcases now days. I can only speak of our involvement. Many good points are being made and I can’t possibly answer some of your questions.

For example… We have no way of knowing if things would have turned out exactly the same way had the players not attended. I can tell you that in many cases the players were recruited as a direct result of an event (any event) they attended.

The numbers are just numbers. People can debate forever what they mean. Yes, it’s true… nearly 100% played high school baseball. Therefore. it would be a good idea to play high school baseball. No it is not mandatory or even necessary for a player to attend our events in order to be recruited. It just so happens, based on the numbers, that most of the top players do.

Each year the number of draft picks and college recruits who attended PG events goes up. Last year 952 players who attended PG events were drafted. Obviously some drafted out of college as well as high school. I think what you are looking for is this… The same time the number of draft picks and college recruits increase, so does the number of players who do not receive scholarships or get drafted. The truth is we simply see a larger number of players each year.

One thing for sure… We hardly ever have anything to do with how talented a player is. I’m fairly certain that almost all these top players would end up being recruited. I’m fairly certain they would not have the same number of choices. Often many of these same players attend East Coast Pro and Area Codes. Some are selected as Aflac All Americans. In nearly every case, we have already seen those players at PG events. For example of all the players who attended this year’s ECP, only 9 had not been to a PG event. In fact, some were invited to ECP because the scouts in charge saw them at a PG event. We have a very good close relationship with many of the organizers (scouts) who run ECP. They follow our stuff closely, as do most all the top colleges and all the Major League scouting departments.

Regarding the numbers, you mention… We do believe it can be, and has been, very beneficial for many to attend a PG event. The numbers are simply numbers, I do think it’s very important to “read between the lines”. But the reading between the lines should be done with an open mind. That said I would be the first to admit, there have been some early draft picks and top level college scholarship players who have never attended a showcase type event let alone ours.

Once again the bottom line is…
1 - Most important thing – Talent!
2 – Being known by the right people.
3 – The more options the better.

Regarding the budget and the expense… Despite the fact that the NCAA has rules and regulations that need to be followed, there are ways and certain events that will allow talented players the opportunity to attend high level events at little or no cost. And if a player has outstanding talent, there are many high level teams out there that will gladly get him on the roster. Some of these teams foot the entire bill including attending certain showcase events.

I would never want a player or parent to think his son must attend a PG event. I do think it can be important to the player that we know who he is if he has lots of talent. We actually scout other things in addition to our events, even high school games. We actually know who most all of those non PG players are who get drafted or recruited. We are in business, but most important to me are the players, not their money. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is the truth. We take great pride in trying to help players and we’ve helped many who have never spent a dime on us. And our base business revolves around being a scouting service not a showcase company. Please do not confuse with “recruiting service” which we are not!

The numbers are just the numbers, we are proud of them. They are more important than any dollar figure they might represent. It’s a lot of fun to follow these player’s careers. There will always be players who are successful, long before and long after Perfect Game is/was in existence. We are not the most important at anything.

quote:

As I stated earlier, I know of a few boys here that at 16 have already gone to multiple events (I dont know if any were PG events), and to be honest several of these boys may not even crack the starting lineups on their HS squads

NHFundamentals - This is where, we, as parents need to remove any rose colored glasses we're wearing. I would hope if a parent has taken their son to several large showcases and received poor ratings that they would use that information to help their son find a better venue to promote himself for college. A showcase can provide helpful info on both ends of the spectrum I suppose, if we as parents are open to hearing it.

quote:

How many of those players would have ended up where they did or in an equivalent program if PG did not exist? My guess would be most of them. The overhelming majority of the schools you listed are cream of the crop. The players they are recruiting would obviously be the very top of those available each year. If a player being looked at by Miami did not actually get selected to attend Miami, I am sure any of the other schools you listed would be very interested in him.

NH,

We simply do not know that. Are we presuming that all these players would have ended up at the top colleges, no matter what they did?

Every year there are players attending DII and even DIII programs who have highest level DI ability. Some of these DII and DIII players end up being drafted much higher than top DI players.

Being you're from the northeast, it might be interesting for you to look up the Chris Lambert story. His only offer going into August after he graduated from high school was for Hockey! Hewas ready to give up baseball. In late August he was offered baseball scholarships from LSU, Clemson, and many other top programs. He ended up going to his #1 choice from the very beginning Boston College. And later became the only first rounder ever from that school.

There are too many variables to say Miami or any other college wants a player. First there has to be a need for that player. Then there has to be the money available for that player. It is not necessarily true that Miami, Florida, Florida State all recruit the exact same players. Just being talented is not always enough, that's why increasing options is a good thing.

I don't know if this pertains to this discussion, but in our home state here is what has happened. We started leagues and showcases in Iowa about 14 years ago. Before that time seldom would an Iowa high school player drafted. Nearlt always the top players attended The U of Iowa, UNI or Iowa State (no longer has a baseball program).

Since the leagues and showcases started over 50 players have been drafted and all but one player attended the showcases or played in the leagues. Since that time the league and showcases has seen players recruited by LSU, Oklahoma, Southern Cal, Stanford, Notre Dame, Alabama, Baylor, Duke, and other college programs from coast to coast.

Rather than this be a PG thing, look at what's happening in other places around the country. Check out the results of those involved in Andy Pardin's program in North Carolina.

I can understand the debate over value and the money spent. I ask, if all these things were absolutely free, is there still a debate regarding these events having the ability to help young players?

Again, this is a very interesting thread with many good and valid contributions from all of you.

One thing that I have written in various threads over the past few years is this: Before there were showcases, be they local, regional, or national, the best players received baseball scholarships. The players who receive scholarships for baseball would be receiving them with or without attending showcases.

I first began recruiting as a college coach in the summer of 1987. I knew who all of the best players in my region were because of watching games and tournaments, as well as networking with ML scouts, college coaches, HS and 'summer' team coaches. Today the coaches receive lists of players with running times, throwing velicities, etc., because of the players participating in showcases, etc.

Again, there are a similar number of scholarships out there now as there always have been. The players who are the best now would also be the best without the showcases. They are the ones who get scholarship offers and get drafted. There are not more scholarship opportunities or roster spots, therefore there is not an increase in the number of players playing college baseball or being drafted.

The biggest difference I see is that I used to be able to find a Division I/pro prospect type kid just from working hard, networking, and travelling to games every day all summer. I was able to recruit them through hard work and a great schedule, and some of these guys would play for me for 3-4 years at a small school and then get drafted or signed. Today, if those same players attended showcases, they would probably end up at Division I schools.....they may or may not have gotten as much playing time and thus may or may not have gotten drafted.

Showcases have helped the elite Division I teams, with their name recognition in college baseball, to recruit some kids who may have otherwise played at other DI programs or in other divisions and perhaps gotten more playing time. The showcase circuit has provided a vehicle for having less parity in college baseball......the DII, DIII, and NAIA schools have more difficulty finding future pro prospects because the Texas's, Miami's, etc., now have easier access to these kids and it is easier to recruit kids to these programs.

Though what I have written isn't exactly what the course of this discussion is all about, it is an accurate depiction of how national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting.

Again, the best kids are still getting scholarships, whether they attend showcases or not.

Just to reiterate a point that observer44 made.

If your kid loves the game - and has some moxie - attending a Perfect Game showcase or PG tournament is something you have to try to do. Even if it is a one-time journey and the kid is not destined to play at a Top D-1.

The competitive atmosphere and quality of players (of all ages) at Ft.Myers - Jupiter - and many many other venues is second to none.

IMO.

Our son (a rising junior) attended his first PG event last month and we believe it was money well-spent. His rating and Top Prospect Team honors confirmed our belief that he has the skills to play higher-level college ball. And it gave us tangible information about his tools to pass on to the recruiting coaches of schools he's interested in. (Two of these schools are located several hours away from major metropolitan areas; thus, the recruiting coaches have a more difficult job than many in identifying prospects. In addition, neither school sponsors any type of showcase for high school prospects, so it is difficult to get adequate exposure there.)

That said, after paying for high-level select ball (with approx. 20-30 hotel nights and accompanying restaurant meals) all summer, a PG showcase and 3 college-sponsored showcases (schools son is interested in), we are flat broke! (And exhausted, too) Hopefully, by next summer, we will have dug ourselves out of the financial hole so we can do it all over again for one final year.

Justbaseball, if the father in question can afford it, I'd recommend that he send his son to a PG-type event where he will receive a rating from 1-10. If his son receives a low rating, hopefully it will bring the family down to earth a bit and cause them to begin pursuing other goals for their son.

I can see I have a MUCH different perspective than some others here. Let’s go ahead and dig into this deeply. Let’s try to find the facts and set our opinions aside.

Grateful, please allow me the opportunity to respond to a couple items in your post.

quote:

The biggest difference I see is that I used to be able to find a Division I/pro prospect type kid just from working hard, networking, and travelling to games every day all summer. I was able to recruit them through hard work and a great schedule, and some of these guys would play for me for 3-4 years at a small school and then get drafted or signed. Today, if those same players attended showcases, they would probably end up at Division I schools.....they may or may not have gotten as much playing time and thus may or may not have gotten drafted.

I agree with the above comments completely. This (to me) is an absolute fact!!!!

quote:

Showcases have helped the elite Division I teams, with their name recognition in college baseball, to recruit some kids who may have otherwise played at other DI programs or in other divisions and perhaps gotten more playing time. The showcase circuit has provided a vehicle for having less parity in college baseball......the DII, DIII, and NAIA schools have more difficulty finding future pro prospects because the Texas's, Miami's, etc., now have easier access to these kids and it is easier to recruit kids to these programs.

Showcases have helped the elite DI programs (no question). They have the biggest recruiting budgets and can travel the most to find top talent. I disagree with the less parity in college baseball. Only a few years ago before showcase events became popular, LSU and other colleges dominated DI baseball. Before that it was Southern Cal I believe. The top 25 included pretty much the same teams each year. Now from one year to the next you have different teams winning the college world series at all levels. You see new programs entering the elite status every year. You see new faces among the elite each year. Making the college world series is just as hard as winning it. The top conferences are stronger from top to bottom. And because of showcase type events the recognized talent pool is much larger and spreads over more territory. This allows the mid level DIs to recruit better and compete at a closer level than years ago. There is not a huge difference among the talent level of good players. It’s a fine line and often good recruiters at the non top 40 schools can find players who can take them to the next level.

quote:

Though what I have written isn't exactly what the course of this discussion is all about, it is an accurate depiction of how national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting.

Grateful. I have read enough of your stuff to understand your opinion should be valued. I respect your opinion and knowledge very much. I agree that national showcases have altered the playing field and recruiting, I just honestly believe it’s in the best interest of the players. And very helpful to both MLB scouting departments and scholarship school recruiting. I do agree that unfortunately it does affect the non scholarship colleges to a degree. However, I think even the DIII schools are proving that they can find more players who can help their programs these days. There is simply more information available about potential players these days.

I am probably not the right person to get involved in this discussion. Trying very hard, but not sure I can be completely unbiased. Can be completely honest, however.

Fungo,
Great subject.

Good posts by all. This has been said many times before and I believe is simply wrong, “If you are good enough, they will find you.”. Yes it may be true for the very top echelon of players, but for the good players who aren’t playing on a good select team or in an area where there are no college scouts, no help from HS/summer coaches, you need to be pro-active. Whether it be by letter writing, finding a good traveling team, showcasing, etc…

Fungo’s point (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think is a great one, is how much is too much. Herein lies the dilemma. Knowing what I know now, my son should have been more pro-active in his letter writing and contacting schools to introduce himself. As I’ve stated before, until my son played on a good fall ball team and went to a fall showcase, his only contacts were with the local DII and local JUCO’s. Now before I get jumped on, there is nothing wrong with DII or JUCO, etc…, however this one showcase in AZ (wasn’t PG, but I believe they attended) where he threw three innings in a 9:30 am game garnered more letters and attention (DI, DII, JUCO) than all his previous years of playing combined.

Simply put, if playing college baseball is one of your goals, and if they aren’t coming to watch you, you better go where they are.

BTW, after finding a $200 sponsor, the total cost of fall ball AND showcase cost us less than $250 for son. Much more for us to tag along, but we wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

There is no doubt (at least in my mind) that PG and a few of the other top shelf organizations do benefit the baseball community. The high number of kids that attended PG Events and are going to top colleges (per Jerry's post) and being drafted is fantastic.

The stats I would like to see are:
1. Total Number of players that have attended a PG Event.
2. Total Number of that group that ended up playing college and at what level.

This would give a better perspective into the value add of these showcases. I believe the top players are and will continue to be known. It's the next level of kids that perhaps don't get the same pub, don't run a 6.5, and don't throw it 95 that are still very servicable at the collegiate level.

quote:

The stats I would like to see are:
1. Total Number of players that have attended a PG Event.
2. Total Number of that group that ended up playing college and at what level.

We have about 5,000 who actually attend showcases each year, this includes underclassmen who obviously have not signed with a college.

Another 12,000+ attend our showcase tournaments. A large number of these players we see at both tournaments and showcase. That really gives us a better read on each players true ability.

It is very hard to track all of them as they progress to the next level. I will say that several of the teams who play in these tournaments have a very high percentage of players go DI and/or get drafted. After all, they include a lot of talented players on those rosters.

Many of the players on these teams attend the showcases as well. But we are lucky to have so many top summer and fall teams play. These teams deserve more credit than we do for any success their players experience.

If anyone's interested the easiest way for us to track players is by seeing the recruiting class coming into any college in America. Then it is fairly simple to find how many players have been to our events by checking our player files against that recruiting class.

If someone wants to ask about any college, I will check and try to reply. As mentioned before, we are in the process of compiling that information for nearly all DI Colleges and will list it on the PG site.

My guess is that a high percentage of all these players do end up playing somewhere at the next level.

We do not MAKE a player a DI recruit or draft pick. The player is responsible for that! We just help open the door for those type players. As do some other organizations around the country.

Thank you everybody for all your thoughts. My family is going to begin this process soon and I am eager to gain all the perspective I can.

My son goes to a small high school outside of Chicago. I'm thinking that his team is not going to receive a lot of attention, so his best chances are to attend a showcase or a few. He also has played some games for a travel team which we hope will gain some exposure.

Bottom line is how do you know if your son is getting the right amount of exposure? Is it safe to assume your high school coach will do his part to get your son's name out there?

I agree that it is not necessary to attend everything that is out there but it is wise not to take advantage of what you can?

My '06 HS grad is an example of a player who didn't attend any PG events. We didn't feel it was within our budget. In retrospect, I wish we would have made the effort. He was invited to the AC games last August and that is the only place his exposure occurred.

Living in the middle of the country in a colder climate, we had no idea what a PG (or AC) event could do for a kid. I can tell you that PG invited my son to many events for 3 years. When push came to shove and he was making the decision of college vs. pro, PG invited him to the pre-draft workout and, even though he couldn't attend, were very supportive and helpful...even though he had turned down every event they had ever invited him to. They are a class act from top to bottom.

All that being said, we have a 13-year-old catcher who will be going through the process in a few years. We already know that being exposed through a showcase or two will be part of the plan. It just opens so many more doors!

Its true that if you're good, they will find you. But I want to add that being good and attending showcases must be accompanied by three things:
1. Standing out to scouts through speed, size and position...they really do go after pitchers first, then up the middle (catcher, SS, CF), and speed/size really do matter. One coach told us he never recruits 2nd basemen, but sticks with athletic SS's who can play multiple infield positions and can hit. Coaches have needs and go after the best athletes first.
2. Good grades. My son did well at AC, but his grades and test scores were what jumped him to the top of the list for many colleges. Except for the ND and Geo Tech offers which were straight baseball, most schools combined athletic and academic scholarships, with the academic money being a huge help.
3. Character. When the pro scouts started coming around last spring, they put a great value on my son's fastball, but it also mattered that he was mature enough to look them in the eye, shake their hand and carry on a conversation. He was, after all, going to be an investment to them. Great players might get away with off-field issues, but most players need to be strong of character to be worth the money.

Showcases are great, but need to be carefully chosen. Just going to multiple events won't get you more. Do well at the events you choose. As PG becomes more widespread with events all over the country, you see a greater range of player ability. But this is a good thing. By attending a PG event, the player is showing a sincere interest in furthering his baseball beyond HS and will stand a better chance of attracting the attention of a smaller D1 or lower level school who, otherwise, might not have seen him. If you're lucky enough to be part of an AC or AFLAC quality of event, you're in very elite company and the doors will be thrust open. Take it from a family from Kansas who feels very fortunate that baseball is paving the way for our son's future.

In case anyone is interested

Allan Simpson - National

David Rawnsley - National

Quote, "This post is for those parents that are afraid they don't have enough money to help their sons play college baseball". Fungo, great topic.

I don't post much anymore, but this topic caught my eye. My son was class of 2003. The key for him, coming out of N. Nevada, was playing on solid summer teams. At that time, I really didn't know much about showcases. Good thing, because the "budget" was limited.

He was invited to play on a N. California travel team his Junior year. The schedule was great, and it was not unusual at any time to see a number of college coaches at the games. The manager of the team did everything he possibly could to get exposure for his players.

Now, to be specific, even though my son did not attend showcases other than area code, he still received solid offers from 4 good schools. The offers ranged from 90% to 100%. My expenses primarily consisted of typical travel expenses from Nevada to N. California. Not "budget breaking" although my son may have been psychologically scarred from staying at motels with bars on the windows during our travels.(Not any different than "A" ball.)

I am not by any means saying that showcases are not valuable. Again, at the time, I just didn't know that much about them and my son went in a different direction which worked out fine.
Good luck to all.

I do beleive there is more parity in college baseball than even a few short years ago. Whether this is because of more showcases and tournaments than in past years, is up for discussion, but I find that there are many more opportunitities now for players to be seen than in the past.
Over the past several years (let's say 7-8), I have watched Perfect Game grow in scope and mission. Key to any successful business, regardless of price, is often measured by organization and presentation of your product. If my son was to attend a showcase or tournament, I really don't care how many past draft picks have attended, but whether the money I spent was well worth it for his experience.
I think that is what this topic is about, not how much you have to spend but how you spend what you have in your budget.

I have to confess that we spent very little in the way of showcases. I am not sure whether the one showcase he attended was of significance or not for exposure. We did it so he could measure himself against his peers, it was not well attended back then, but every wood bat tourny run by PG was. We and son preferred tournaments, summer travel which included in the summer travel costs, tournaments run by PG and others. You could probably guess which one was better organized and attended by scouts and coaches.

Jerry,
I often feel that you post to defend the success of PG. Many will read my story below and understand that through stories such as this, it's evident you do deliver what you promise (exposure plus a great event).

Son attended PG wood bat, already signed, senior fall. He went only to help his team in the tourney. There were many scouts watching him, Sully was there and many, many coaches came over to say hello to him. After son left mound, a relatively unknown came into relieve, put on an outstanding performance, resulting in a top D1 scholarship here in FL and now ranked as one of the top college pitchers in the country. It cost 75 dollars a player for the tournament. I do beleive that player had never been to a showcase or tourney relying on HS for exposure. 75 dollars. Do you have to spend a fortune, no, you have to be AT the right place AT the right time.
You as a parent need to shift through everything to determine what works best for your budget.

quote:

Posted by ANT09Dad: Is it safe to assume your high school coach will do his part to get your son's name out there?

Based on lots of folks experiences, it is probably not a safe assumption. I would encourage those interested to ask alot of questions on this board, check the main site for the recruiting timeline and take ownership of the recruiting process. If done correctly the process need not be repeated.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
We did it so he could measure himself against his peers...

Exactly! That was a major motivation for us too.

BTW, great story about your son's teammate!

This has turned somewhat into a debate about showcasing, and I suppose to a degree that is fair. But for the sake of turning it a little, I said earlier we set (and spent) about $2,500, which includes transportation costs. Without naming names, this is what we got:

1 local weekend college showcase
1 one-day showcase
2 semi-regional one-day college showcase/camps
3 showcase tournament: 1 national that was local, 1 regional, 1 long-distance.
About 5 one-day pro tryout camps (which all are free, but counted against the budget for gas).

This, by the way, got him roughly 50 plate appearances in competition, plus batting practices and all the things you associate with a showcase.

Probably, a select team would have gotten him some more exposure, but would have taken time away from the Legion team, which he didn't want to do.

We felt that was plenty enough baseball, with everything else going on with him and the family.

The only thing I'll ask in all the PG debate, and, please don't that question the wrong way. I know this one would be much harder to put together, Jerry, but what percentage of kids playing at the lower end of D-I attended your events? Frankly, that might be more germain to the conversation, since Top 50 schools are a pretty select bunch. Most of us out here don't and won't have kids that will play at that level.

quote:

About 5 one-day pro tryout camps (which all are free, but counted against the budget for gas).

OldVaMan - That is a very good reminder! They are free and in our experience the talent level of the kids at these pro workouts ranged widely. It offers a great opportunity for a kid with some good ability to stand out - even at the invitation only ones. Many of the schools that called my son in HS did so upon scout recommendation. Great way to get some free exposure.

What are you trying to obtain from each baseball choice you choose? To be able to walk on to large school, to be able to walk on to a small school, to obtain a very large scholarship to any school, to just have fun and the experience, to receive lots of offers, to compare yourself to other players?

Every family/player have different goals/objectives in mind when choosing teams, showcases, schools.......

Let me divert the attention away from PG because in my opinion PG sells a good service to the players and their families. In the case of PG and over-exposure I would “blame” the parents for going overboard and spending too much and can’t blame PG for taking their money. But let’s talk more about recruiting services. When my son was a sophomore in high school I was approached by a recruiting service. For around $1,000.00 this service would market my son to college coaches and would guarantee my son a scholarship. Granted a college scholarship was our goal and a $1,000.00 was within our budget but Frugal Fungo needed to think about it. My hesitation immediately dropped the price to $750.00. I still declined. Within a few days the same person contacted me and dropped the price to $500.00. Things were getting interesting. I continue to reject his offer and within a week he had offered his services for free. Then it dawned on me exactly how this was playing out. They would use my son, who they knew was destined to get a good scholarship, as an example of how effective their operation worked. My son’s scholarship (which he would get because of his talent) would “lure” other less talented player into their scam for $1,000.00 each. Not bad income for a 8X10 glossy and a 3 min video that had no bearing on my son’s scholarship or impacted those other players. Pure deception in my opinion.
Understand too that effective marketing frequently incorporates a “loss leader” to lure buyers into their market. The selling of baseball exposure is not exempt from this loss leader approach. The loss leader in marketing baseball exposure is the special treatment give to high profile players in order to influence the masses of “average” players. (As in the “free” recruiting service offered to my son). The average player and his parents aren’t aware of the marketing techniques and are easily convinced they must follow in the footsteps of the high profile player if they desire the same results. I’m not trying to blow the whistle on the selling of exposure but I would like parents to think about the business side of recruiting vs the emotional side of recruiting.
Fungo

I don't understand how you can pay $1000 for the exposure when the real deal is living the total experience with your son. I for one found the recruiting experience the most special long term project with my son. It was probably the first time off the diamond that we sat and worked together as a team, he was expaining to me his dreams, I was bouncing off experiences with him, and together we had a plan, on an adult level. There would be no way that I would pay someone to take that from me. These recuiting services only sell tools that anyone can do if the knowledge is there.

The disclaimer here is that some folks do not have the knowledge to go outside the box and that is when the vultures start circling. I like the point Fungo makes that the price kept dropping as they saw he was not buying. I find that a bit dirty from a business standpint.