Bogeyorpar's D3 Academic-Baseball College Ranking

Fun list!  Thanks for doing this!

Very interesting approach.  Son #2 school is on the list so I guess that's a good thing.  Thanks for doing this, I'm sure many people will find the list helpful.

Awesome indexed list Bogeyorpar. 

There is a certain poster on this website who asked me for some "mentoring" back in November 2015.   Initially interested in Ivys, I kept telling him to hammer away at the upper echelon of D3 schools on Bogeyorpar's list (before it came out).  The index has validated my thoughts and recommendations.  This young man has overwhelming grades and he's a pretty good & versatile baseball player too.  While some schools (in the same conference) went cold on him, he kept at it and coming back to me for more thoughts.   Finally, late in the Fall 2016 recruiting cycle one of those top schools contacted him (they are always consistently & historically late in the recruiting game) and they told him they wanted him.  He committed.  With a 70% academic weighting, I think Bogerorpar's list it weighted about right for the right balance with baseball....however this young man's school would be higher if academics were weighted more.  This school was most interested in his academics and I see HUGE things ahead for him in life.  When I saw this list, I thought of him.  He is mature, humble beyond his years and a pretty good baseball player whether he is catching, playing MIF or OF.  Steal some bases for me J!

Great list.  Thanks for making the effort and time.  When you balance the quantitative (stats and facts and data) with the qualitative (fit, feel, "going where loved") -- a our kids have a great chance at success both in baseball and in life.  

This is a great list! Thank you!

Cool stuff!  You made better use of your time than me. All I have to show for my efforts is some leftover Turkey Pho with stuffing balls.

At a glance, at the very least, this is a more sensible list than the one you linked to a few weeks ago.  One could quibble about this school or that, but there are no obvious groaners.  It would be a great list to use as a starting point for further research by prospective D3 players and families. I suggest that the admins find a home for it so that newbies can easily find it or be directed to it.

I want to reiterate my appreciation for Bogey's work!  Bishop Lefty  and I have been discussing another, complicating thought for a list like this, and one that may be impossible to quantify without first hand knowledge:  Admin support for athletics in general, and baseball in particular.  Some schools on my son's original list are on Bogey's list but do not seem to provide a lot of support for their athletes.  Some provide a lot. 

Smoke, I was having similar thoughts  about how the baseball rankings skew toward current winning percentage, which will fluctuate quite a lot, and which doesn't necessarily translate into the overall baseball experience.  Things like the field, the fans, the athletic center, transportation, weather, coaching are not addressed. And on the other side of the ledger, affordability, aid, etc.  So I think it's a great list, but it's going to churn a bit, so unless BogiePar updates it,  it will be out of date in a year.  

But as a starting point for families looking to research D3 baseball opportunities, I think this list is as good as I have seen.

Bogie, maybe while you're digesting your Christmas dinner you could come up with a high-academic D1 Baseball list to replace that dang Tier 1 list.

Bogeyorpar posted:

...so I decided to create a college ranking system that reflect both academic and baseball strength. ...

Very cool.  For the sake of discussion...  Since the chart is designed (I think) to help those who are seeking the best options that include both academics and baseball, maybe it would make sense to have a disqualifier for those schools that are ranked particularly low in either category.  For example, if either the academic or baseball score is in the bottom 30%, they would not qualify.  So, a rank of 265 or lower in either would eliminate them from being listed.

Great work, Bogeyorpar! Thank you!

Emory really comes out well, doesn't it? And I don't think it's ranking would fluctuate all that much year to year, because the baseball program is usually pretty good.

smokeminside posted:

I want to reiterate my appreciation for Bogey's work!  Bishop Lefty  and I have been discussing another, complicating thought for a list like this, and one that may be impossible to quantify without first hand knowledge:  Admin support for athletics in general, and baseball in particular.  Some schools on BP's list were on my son's original list are on Bogey's list but do not seem to provide a lot of support for their athletes.  Some provide a lot. 

Yes. However, to make the list work, we'll have to quantify the qualitative side of things. If we can add columns of "facility/support/coaching" ranking, it will be great.

JCG posted:

Smoke, I was having similar thoughts  about how the baseball rankings skew toward current winning percentage, which will fluctuate quite a lot, and which doesn't necessarily translate into the overall baseball experience.  Things like the field, the fans, the athletic center, transportation, weather, coaching are not addressed. And on the other side of the ledger, affordability, aid, etc.  So I think it's a great list, but it's going to churn a bit, so unless BogiePar updates it,  it will be out of date in a year.  

But as a starting point for families looking to research D3 baseball opportunities, I think this list is as good as I have seen.

Bogie, maybe while you're digesting your Christmas dinner you could come up with a high-academic D1 Baseball list to replace that dang Tier 1 list.

The academic ranking changes once a year, and Massey rating changes once new season underway. With the updates, some schools will go up/down a few spots, but I don't think any school can jump more than 10 spots.

Yes, the D1 list is on my to-do list. With D1, though, do you think it makes sense to weigh baseball more, such as 60-40 or 50-50? After all, most people go to D1 to turn Pro, right?

cabbagedad posted:

Bogeyorpar posted:

...so I decided to create a college ranking system that reflect both academic and baseball strength. ...

Very cool.  For the sake of discussion...  Since the chart is designed (I think) to help those who are seeking the best options that include both academics and baseball, maybe it would make sense to have a disqualifier for those schools that are ranked particularly low in either category.  For example, if either the academic or baseball score is in the bottom 30%, they would not qualify.  So, a rank of 265 or lower in either would eliminate them from being listed.

That seems to makes sense, but you would eliminate a lot of good schools.  Let's start with Middlebury and Cal Tech.  I don't know if the  latter does any recruiting,  and I know the team stinks, but c'mon, it's Cal Tech!  Middlebury is a top LAC that is spending some serious money to turn things around on the baseball field so I wouldn't rule it out if I was looking for a high academic school for baseball.  How about Skidmore?  Nice school.  They recruited my son heavily.  Coach is a great guy.  Carlton?   Another fine school; met coach and he seemed sharp.  Some other good schools that I don't know much about in regards to baseball.  NYU?  Vassar?  Too many babies out with the bathwater IMO.

cabbagedad posted:

Bogeyorpar posted:

...so I decided to create a college ranking system that reflect both academic and baseball strength. ...

Very cool.  For the sake of discussion...  Since the chart is designed (I think) to help those who are seeking the best options that include both academics and baseball, maybe it would make sense to have a disqualifier for those schools that are ranked particularly low in either category.  For example, if either the academic or baseball score is in the bottom 30%, they would not qualify.  So, a rank of 265 or lower in either would eliminate them from being listed.

Interesting idea, except that it will eliminate some great high academics colleges, such as Caltech, NYU, Middlebury, Colby, and Carleton.

Bogeyorpar posted:

JCG posted:

Smoke, I was having similar thoughts  about how the baseball rankings skew toward current winning percentage, which will fluctuate quite a lot, and which doesn't necessarily translate into the overall baseball experience.  Things like the field, the fans, the athletic center, transportation, weather, coaching are not addressed. And on the other side of the ledger, affordability, aid, etc.  So I think it's a great list, but it's going to churn a bit, so unless BogiePar updates it,  it will be out of date in a year.  

But as a starting point for families looking to research D3 baseball opportunities, I think this list is as good as I have seen.

Bogie, maybe while you're digesting your Christmas dinner you could come up with a high-academic D1 Baseball list to replace that dang Tier 1 list.

The academic ranking changes once a year, and Massey rating changes once new season underway. With the updates, some schools will go up/down a few spots, but I don't think any school can jump more than 10 spots.

Yes, the D1 list is on my to-do list. With D1, though, do you think it makes sense to weigh baseball more, such as 60-40 or 50-50? After all, most people go to D1 to turn Pro, right?

It's going to change a bit - not all that much.  For example Oxy is higher than its natural level should be right now.

As for D1 weighting, that's a difficult question.  Is a top player looking at UCLA or Cal thinking pro ball? Probably.  What if he's looking at Dartmouth?  Probably not so much, unless he's a pitcher, then maybe.  I think 60-40 is about right.  Maybe 65-35.

Fantastic work. And a great starting place. I am very familiar with many of the schools on this list, as my son played against many of them regularly, and the school he is now an Alum of is on the list. I will second Smokes comment, Several of the schools on this list get very little support from the administration. One school on this list, I would no longer recommend to a player. Several Players I know who went there were disappointed in their experience. Not only from support from the administration, but almost outright hostility from the student body. The student body at this institution do not understand D3. They think the athletes are either on scholarship or received unwarranted help in attending the school.

It is a great starting point and I large enough that few schools get left out. Better than all the other lists I have seen. All players and parents still need to do there homework.

Bogeyorpar,

I love the concept.  It can bring a lot of value to many people.  Where I think the most value can be derived is in the weighting, metrics, and research....my two cents is to let the person driving the tool change the weightings.  Everybody's idea of value is very different especially when you start weighting academics and baseball.  That can become somewhat of a Holy War, as it does sometimes on HSBBWeb.  So, let people assign their own weightings is my feedback.  My son is a prime example from that weightings perspective....baseball had very little to do in his decision making whether it was D1 or D3 offers.  Baseball offered him leverage and choice with high academic schools. I think with the D3 schools this may be more the case.   With the D1 schools it is going to be more about the baseball and the next level. 

JMO.

Outstanding list. Wish I had it years ago.

One notable point about Emory is that they are usually very competitive in all of the sports they participate in. They really are a academic and athletic powerhouse in the D3 world IMO.  The other list that was posted several weeks ago was a joke and this really gives a parent/player a pretty good feel for their options. Nice work BOGEYORPAR!

One of the moderators should pin this to the top of the D3 thread as it is a really useful post.  One minor note on Claremont in that they are "CMS" which includes Harvey Mudd, one of the top engineering programs in the country. 

I think the list works as it is.  Let people decide for themselves if one aspect or the other is under or over-weighted and either include or dismiss schools accordingly.  As far as a D1 list, all kids (and likely their parents) THINK they are pro prospects when they start, and most will probably overweight the baseball aspect in their decision process.  I think some outright ignore the academics in their decisions, even if they were good HS students. 

As far as adding a factor for coaching or administrative support - that would be great, but it seems pretty subjective.  Who decides what good support or facilities are and ranks them?  I think any list, whether it's this one or any other, points you in a direction.  After that, it's up to the families to do their homework and make the best decision possible for their individual situation. 

It's just a guide - and it looks like a pretty good one at that. 

BOF posted:

Outstanding list. Wish I had it years ago.

One notable point about Emory is that they are usually very competitive in all of the sports they participate in. They really are a academic and athletic powerhouse in the D3 world IMO.  The other list that was posted several weeks ago was a joke and this really gives a parent/player a pretty good feel for their options. Nice work BOGEYORPAR!

One of the moderators should pin this to the top of the D3 thread as it is a really useful post.  One minor note on Claremont in that they are "CMS" which includes Harvey Mudd, one of the top engineering programs in the country. 

Mudd is not on the WSJ list. Kinda odd....

How is Drake University on that list? They don't appear to have a baseball program.

uncoach posted:

How is Drake University on that list? They don't appear to have a baseball program.

My bad, it should be Drew University. Thanks for pointing it out.

uncoach posted:

How is Drake University on that list? They don't appear to have a baseball program.

They're starting at the bottom.

solid list, from the research I have done there are some holes in it, in my opinion but still a real nice job!

my son was recruited or contacted by 6 of the schools on the list, visited 2 and ended up going to one not on the list...I honestly believe there is a lot of hair splitting when we talk about ranking colleges.

old_school posted:

solid list, from the research I have done there are some holes in it, in my opinion but still a real nice job!

my son was recruited or contacted by 6 of the schools on the list, visited 2 and ended up going to one not on the list...I honestly believe there is a lot of hair splitting when we talk about ranking colleges.

In general I agree. There are plenty of very good schools not on this list. For instance I would include Wabash in 'MY" list. It is an all male school in Indiana. They have struggled the last couple of years in baseball, so Massey might have them rated pretty low. But they just hired a Wabash alum away from DePauw. I believe he will do very well quickly. They have a large sophomore class, that saw a lot of playing time last year. They finished 17-23, they will be very good in the near future. They do not show up in WSJ list, not sure why. 

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

old_school posted:

solid list, from the research I have done there are some holes in it, in my opinion but still a real nice job!

my son was recruited or contacted by 6 of the schools on the list, visited 2 and ended up going to one not on the list...I honestly believe there is a lot of hair splitting when we talk about ranking colleges.

In general I agree. There are plenty of very good schools not on this list. For instance I would include Wabash in 'MY" list. It is an all male school in Indiana. They have struggled the last couple of years in baseball, so Massey might have them rated pretty low. But they just hired a Wabash alum away from DePauw. I believe he will do very well quickly. They have a large sophomore class, that saw a lot of playing time last year. They finished 17-23, they will be very good in the near future. They do not show up in WSJ list, not sure why. 

Indeed!

As JCG pointed out, for some unknown reason, the WSJ college ranking excludes some very good academic schools. Mudd is one (but Claremont McKenna is high up there, so it's OK). They missed Wabash. And to my surprise, they missed ALL service academies, Air Force, Army, Marine, Coast Guard... (I would assume this is intentional -- how do you miss West Point accidentally?) 

So here's what I'm gonna do. For the missing colleges, I'll use US News ranks, then find a similar ranked school in WSJ list, and use that rank. For example, Wabash is ranked #65 LAC on US News, the same as Muhlenberg. Muhlenberg is ranked 186 on WSJ list, so I'll put in 186 for Wabash as well. The result -- Wabash now ranked #74 on Academic-Baseball list!

Please let me know if you see a good Academic-Baseball school missing from the list. It's probably caused by data issues like this.

old_school posted:

solid list, from the research I have done there are some holes in it, in my opinion but still a real nice job!

my son was recruited or contacted by 6 of the schools on the list, visited 2 and ended up going to one not on the list...I honestly believe there is a lot of hair splitting when we talk about ranking colleges.

old-school, which school is missing? Let me check the data.

Bogeyorpar posted:

JCG posted:

Smoke, I was having similar thoughts  about how the baseball rankings skew toward current winning percentage, which will fluctuate quite a lot, and which doesn't necessarily translate into the overall baseball experience.  Things like the field, the fans, the athletic center, transportation, weather, coaching are not addressed. And on the other side of the ledger, affordability, aid, etc.  So I think it's a great list, but it's going to churn a bit, so unless BogiePar updates it,  it will be out of date in a year.  

But as a starting point for families looking to research D3 baseball opportunities, I think this list is as good as I have seen.

Bogie, maybe while you're digesting your Christmas dinner you could come up with a high-academic D1 Baseball list to replace that dang Tier 1 list.

The academic ranking changes once a year, and Massey rating changes once new season underway. With the updates, some schools will go up/down a few spots, but I don't think any school can jump more than 10 spots.

Yes, the D1 list is on my to-do list. With D1, though, do you think it makes sense to weigh baseball more, such as 60-40 or 50-50? After all, most people go to D1 to turn Pro, right?

If you're interested, I threw together a list from Massey that averages the ratings for the last 5 years.

http://community.hsbaseballweb...averat2012-2016-xlsx

It's easy to dispute any list. People's priorities aren't the same. My daughter's undergrad university isn't a top 100. But it's a top five in her major.

But here's another consideration for selecting a college. When my daughter applied to top ten law schools, despite graduating PBK she was rejected by all probably due to the overall ranking of the university. She worked for two years at a top worldwide law firm, built contacts/references and got accepted to more than one.

When she verballed at age fifteen she had no idea she would want to go to law school seven years later.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Bogeyorpar posted:

JCG posted:

Smoke, I was having similar thoughts  about how the baseball rankings skew toward current winning percentage, which will fluctuate quite a lot, and which doesn't necessarily translate into the overall baseball experience.  Things like the field, the fans, the athletic center, transportation, weather, coaching are not addressed. And on the other side of the ledger, affordability, aid, etc.  So I think it's a great list, but it's going to churn a bit, so unless BogiePar updates it,  it will be out of date in a year.  

But as a starting point for families looking to research D3 baseball opportunities, I think this list is as good as I have seen.

Bogie, maybe while you're digesting your Christmas dinner you could come up with a high-academic D1 Baseball list to replace that dang Tier 1 list.

The academic ranking changes once a year, and Massey rating changes once new season underway. With the updates, some schools will go up/down a few spots, but I don't think any school can jump more than 10 spots.

Yes, the D1 list is on my to-do list. With D1, though, do you think it makes sense to weigh baseball more, such as 60-40 or 50-50? After all, most people go to D1 to turn Pro, right?

If you're interested, I threw together a list from Massey that averages the ratings for the last 5 years.

http://community.hsbaseballweb...averat2012-2016-xlsx

Great! I have downloaded the list. It's a good weekend project.

Giving this a bump, as it may not have been seen by users currently looking at D3 options. Also, maybe Bogeyorpar will update during the holidays!

Wow, almost turkey time again. I think the academics ranking won't change much but the baseball ranking will swing wildly, so yes, it is worth updating. Good turkey day project. 

Cool thread. Thx for resurrecting it.

My son and I started putting something like this together and had planned on working on it more over Thanksgiving and Xmas.

This is very helpful - just last night I was talking with my son about putting together a DIII list!!  Great timing.  

It's a great list as long as you remember that it's just a ballpark estimate (it would be quite a bit different if USNews or Forbes rankings were used) and schools need to be looked at individually.  For example, there are two schools ranked one after the other -- one my son chose to attend, and one he strongly considered. Both are wonderful LAC's, but at one we got the sense that athletes were an integral part of the student community, while at the other, we saw indications that athletes are kind of their own group outside the general student body.   The comments in the thread from Smoke and BishopLeftyDad about admin support, facilities, etc are also really on point.

JCG posted:

It's a great list as long as you remember that it's just a ballpark estimate (it would be quite a bit different if USNews or Forbes rankings were used) and schools need to be looked at individually.  For example, there are two schools ranked one after the other -- one my son chose to attend, and one he strongly considered. Both are wonderful LAC's, but at one we got the sense that athletes were an integral part of the student community, while at the other, we saw indications that athletes are kind of their own group outside the general student body.   The comments in the thread from Smoke and BishopLeftyDad about admin support, facilities, etc are also really on point.

The WSJ/Times list seems to skew toward private schools. I think class size and spending push it in that direction. My son's school (public) didn't make BOP's top 100 because of a low WSJ/Times ranking, even though his school is ranked much higher than a dozen of the schools above on other ranking lists with different methodologies. Once you get past the HA schools, there are many different types of D3 schools to choose from.

Giving this a bump.  Admins -- it really should be a Golden Thread.