D3 Practice in middle of classes?

According to your profile you’re in a cold weather state. Is your son playing in a cold weather state? The odd time may be the only time the coach has access to an indoor facility.

Does the team have a faculty liaison? This is the time for your son to schedule a sit down with that person and the academic advisor to fix his schedule. Be ready to jump in to bring it up the leadership ladder as you are footing the bill. This is way more than letting your kid figure it out.

cold weather state it is.  and it could very well be an indoor facility issue.  I’m guessing then these are the temporary winter schedule.  they should move outside early since its a turf field.   finding other class times is not possible so coach is just going to have to understand, he has prerequisite courses that must be taken and there is only one time offered.   he already made major concessions on which gen ed required courses he wanted to take to stay before 2pm.  at least he’s not a position player, but access to his pitching coach is my concern

Has he discussed this with the pitching coach?  That should be the first thing.

If the baseball schedule is going to change midway through the semester, then he wouldn't be able to schedule any classes that avoid both sets of times.  The coaches must have experience with this, and should advise him on which time blocks to prioritize.

Asking upperclassmen is another idea, if he feels comfortable with that.

I think there is some confusion. The coach is in control - not your son. The whole - coach is going to have to understand and my son will not make any accommodations - routine is going to get him  his choice of class time because he's going to be cut for being a difficult freshman or he's going to get a lot of FaceTime with the coach because he'll be right next to him on the bench after missing 75% of practices.

The correct way to handle this situation would be to have your son approach the coach and explain the situation. If the coach is a reasonable person he will say yes things changed, talk to this person and let's figure something out.

He can also say practice is at this time, figure it out. Which is wrong, but so is telling the coach; this is how things work, deal with it.

Your kid is a freshman, he has the most mobility he'll ever have in terms of what courses he can take - it's not like he's 110 credits in and specifically needs three more courses. Every other freshman regardless of extracurriculars is able to make their schedule and get courses within their major, it's possible.

I would also imagine if the entire team was told to block after 2 pm off they would all be running into this problem no?

Have him talk to the team captain, talk to the coach. Do not escalate this yourself, everything related to his college experience is on him. If you are footing the bill, you and your son work out an arrangement between you two, everything else related to school and baseball is for him to take care of. This should be a fixable situation, talk to an advisor in the athletic dept

I am with @HSDad22 on this one that it is wrong to switch practices from after 2 pm to earlier in the day after registration is complete.  There must be a reason.  I disagree with @PABaseball that freshmen have the most flexibility schedule-wise. They have defined core classes to take, and trying to switch class times after registration is over will be a disaster.  There has to be a misunderstanding here regarding the scheduling, as this makes very little sense.   I would advise him to speak to the coach, but if this new practice schedule is really the case, he will have to try to adjust his schedule.  As a parent paying for college, I would not be happy. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I am with @HSDad22 on this one that it is wrong to switch practices from after 2 pm to earlier in the day after registration is complete.  There must be a reason.  I disagree with @PABaseball that freshmen have the most flexibility schedule-wise. They have defined core classes to take, and trying to switch class times after registration is over will be a disaster.  There has to be a misunderstanding here regarding the scheduling, as this makes very little sense.   I would advise him to speak to the coach, but if this new practice schedule is really the case, he will have to try to adjust his schedule.  As a parent paying for college, I would not be happy.

Exactly.  Coach's new schedule came out after the single day he had to sign up for classes, The only instruction from coach prior to that was to not schedule anything after 2:00pm (assuming based on game schedule)  The school gives each class a time that the portal opens to sign up, starting with grad and seniors, freshman last.  He was at his computer trying to log in 30 minutes earlier than start time for freshman, having to miss class to do so.    He has specific class prerequisites he has to take and it's a D3 university, they only offer each class at one time.   It's these pre-req classes that are causing the conflict.  He is going to have to take a math class this summer which is a pre-req for his major because it was only offered at 5pm.  There is so little flexibility in the class schedules. School does not have 7am classes, earliest is 9, so everything is packed right in the mid morning to early afternoon and then late.   I think there are more adjunct professors than normal due to covid so many professors work during the day, so a lot of classes are later and there are less offered.

He will communicate with the coach himself.  I will  help prep him but I will not get involved. He's an adult.

I know this has got to be affecting more than a few players on the team, almost all are declared majors and vast majority are stem. And like I said, the school class schedule is not that flexible for anyone.

I'm sure we'll work something out, it's just extremely frustrating because everything to this point was going so well.  Great grades, excellent outings, each one better than the last, distinguished himself with coach and team, exceptional exit interview after fall practice with high future expectations.  And then you find out he can't make 3/4 of the practice times because they are in the middle of the morning, not early morning or late afternoon.  It's not one class that is the conflict.  You have to understand the absolute pain that scheduling his classes was, the horrible portal to do it, you select a class, hit save and see it full, etc.  It was painful.  And then we think we have it settled and then this.

Even just before 2 pm every weekday makes it difficult to schedule a full load of classes.  I guess maybe they play a very condensed schedule after spring break?  There is literally almost no way that you could have a full load only from 9-10 and 12:30-2, so all the players must be dealing with this.

My advice is to take a deep breath.  At most schools, schedules can shift quite a bit even in the first week of classes.  So classes that are full may open up again - he needs to find out how this works at his school, by talking to upperclassmen.  I realize it's difficult now that they are on break, but surely they are snapchatting or group texting.  Does he have a residential advisor who is not a baseball player that he could ask?

I know from my son's school's parent Facebook page, a lot of parents worry about this, when the answer is that the student has to learn from other students how things work.

First week at the new school.

Kid took all morning classes to make sure he would be free in the afternoons for baseball. Basically one class per day, 3 hours each day, in the morning, Monday to Friday. (12 credits.)

New to the team. Spoke to coach on the phone a few times. Has yet to attend anything team related as school just started this week.

Found out that there's a mandatory team meeting this Friday morning the same time as his class...which would also be the first time ever attending this class.

What would you do?

(He's going to the class. Even if it's going to jeopardize his baseball situation.)

@HSDad22 posted:

He will communicate with the coach himself.  I will  help prep him but I will not get involved. He's an adult.

I know this has got to be affecting more than a few players on the team, almost all are declared majors and vast majority are stem. And like I said, the school class schedule is not that flexible for anyone.

I'm sure we'll work something out, it's just extremely frustrating because everything to this point was going so well.  Great grades, excellent outings, each one better than the last, distinguished himself with coach and team, exceptional exit interview after fall practice with high future expectations.  And then you find out he can't make 3/4 of the practice times because they are in the middle of the morning, not early morning or late afternoon.  It's not one class that is the conflict.  You have to understand the absolute pain that scheduling his classes was, the horrible portal to do it, you select a class, hit save and see it full, etc.  It was painful.  And then we think we have it settled and then this.

Red flags here. He is in college why even get involved - other than listen. This happens across college baseball and coaches and players work it out. My son was a STEM major in college and I just asked him how his scheduling was going his freshman year and he just said "I work it out with the coach(s) and all they care about is that I get the work in" I don't think I ever had another conversation on it after this.

Relax he'll figure it out.

Tough situation since he is new to the school and doesn't know other players yet, or the coaches.

It's a 3-hour class; how much overlap is there with the baseball meeting?  Can he split the time?  But, he needs to find out if these meetings are routine, in which case he can't take the class.  Can he change his schedule and take a multi-day 1-2 pm class on the other days?

It's good you posted in this thread, because I had no idea that scheduling around baseball was so difficult at some schools.

@Francis7 posted:

First week at the new school.

Kid took all morning classes to make sure he would be free in the afternoons for baseball. Basically one class per day, 3 hours each day, in the morning, Monday to Friday. (12 credits.)

New to the team. Spoke to coach on the phone a few times. Has yet to attend anything team related as school just started this week.

Found out that there's a mandatory team meeting this Friday morning the same time as his class...which would also be the first time ever attending this class.

What would you do?

(He's going to the class. Even if it's going to jeopardize his baseball situation.)

1 - I think your life would provide enough content for a Netflix Dramacumentary.

2 - Coaches should have helped him set his schedule so as not to have conflicts.

@Francis7 posted:

First week at the new school.

Kid took all morning classes to make sure he would be free in the afternoons for baseball. Basically one class per day, 3 hours each day, in the morning, Monday to Friday. (12 credits.)

New to the team. Spoke to coach on the phone a few times. Has yet to attend anything team related as school just started this week.

Did the coach tell him the practice schedule when he spoke to him on the phone? If he told him an afternoon time, I'd imagine other kids on the team would have the issue as well.

Is your son officially on the roster? If yes, I'd go to practice and likely drop and change classes.

Son will miss part of 2 practices a week for last class he needs to graduate but this is the first time in 4 years.  Good part for him is he does not have to schedule his classes.  He has a counselor who does it for him before any others get to register for classes.  Some schools make being an athlete really hard and others make it very easy.

It's a required class and it's the only time it's offered. So, drops are not an option. He did make sure it was not after 2 pm, as instructed, to make sure it didn't conflict with practices and games.

Francis;

define the word "mandatory"? Have a teammate take notes or ask the Coach for a summary. The Coach is searching for "team leaders".  Waiting for your son's reaction.

Bob

Your son needs to talk with the coach and explain the overlap. He can’t just pull an unexplained no show.

@Francis7 posted:

First week at the new school.

Kid took all morning classes to make sure he would be free in the afternoons for baseball. Basically one class per day, 3 hours each day, in the morning, Monday to Friday. (12 credits.)

New to the team. Spoke to coach on the phone a few times. Has yet to attend anything team related as school just started this week.

Found out that there's a mandatory team meeting this Friday morning the same time as his class...which would also be the first time ever attending this class.

What would you do?

(He's going to the class. Even if it's going to jeopardize his baseball situation.)

Skip class and go to the mandatory meeting!  That’s what I would do if I was the player

As a Dad, I would be shocked if my kid involved me in such day to day decision making, and would quickly remind him that he’s an adult and should figure it out himself

He should, of course, also talk to the professor if he's going to miss the class, and explain why.  Not say "will I miss anything?" but "how can I make up what I miss?"  Or, the same would go for the coach.

I have been coaching D3 for many years and use of the facilities is always an issue. Many D3 coaches are part-time and have to schedule around their "real" jobs. That being said, the staff needs to get creative. We do the bulk of our gym time at 6am to 9am, when most coaches don't want to use it. Other times we work in the racket and tennis courts. Our pitchers have their own schedule, usually 6pm. They throw live BP on a rotating basis in the AM practices. We also have a standard form for kids to give to their professors, so they can get advanced assignments and do much of the work online and not have to attend class in person. It's not easy, but there are many resources for the players to work around schedules. It's important to communicate with the coach and get the work in. Some kids attend only an 1/2 hour of practice on some days - but they show and get their work out assignments.

Good luck - it's a tough road to navigate, but please try not to intervene. Let the player and the staff figure it out. It's always the player that needs to adapt, not the other way around.

I'll add...student athletes will always run into conflicts like this with scheduling. And a lot of the time at least in our case there was a financial component. So yes, I was absolutely involved (never with the coaches) and provided guidance.

Some examples:

Freshman year, son was "encouraged" to take a large course load in the fall (I think 18 credits) and a lesser load in the spring. At the end of the year it would have been the same number of credits, but the university didn't see it that way and wanted to charge him for the extra credits in the fall (~3k). I told my son talk to other teammates, and it was about a 70/30 split with most not going this route.

Soph year, he had to take a class for his major that was only offered at one time and it would have interfered with practice. The alternative was taking it remote in the summer. Again, we'd have to pay for it. In this case, there wasn't much we could do so it was what it was.

I have to say, I don't understand the resistance to providing guidance and advice. Not saying get involved and speak with coaches. That's unacceptable IMO, but don't think this is really any different than your kid asking you for advice on other very important life decisions. If your kid asked you about buying a car, would you provide guidance or expect them to figure it out? JMO

Academic v.Athletic conflicts are nothing new. My son had a teacher in high school who despised athletes got to leave school early on game days. She used a minor event to hit him with some heavy discipline as a payback. She lied to get him put in detention.

In college an athlete has to be very careful to avoid anti jock professors. An athlete doesn’t want to be in a situation of being flunked because a professor won’t let him take a test early or late due to a Fri-Sun road-trip. The athlete also doesn’t want to stay for the test and miss a weekend series. The coach won’t be pleased.

Ozone, great story, we used the cow barns at MSU. Great class “cattle rustling” 101. Two years  later MSU college World Series Omaha.

Bob

@Consultant

innovation creates motivation. We used pool noodles to swing against live pitching in close quarters without cages. Teaches the strike zone for sure. Would love to hear some funky training methods.

Ozone

do you use the  high tee drill?
Bob

Yes indeed but if you can teach pitch recognition you are halfway there.I’m from the simple fat wrist skinny wrist school. See a pitcher with a fat wrist facing you it’s probably a fastball a skinny wrist facing you it’s a breaking ball.

Ozone

that is very informative when flat wrist”,! Amazing

Bob

Cut fb and sliders make it tough but there is still a psychological advantage to thinking you know what’s coming

Ozone

yes, I did when I face Bob Gibson, Connie Johnson and Jack Sanford.

Bob

@nycdad posted:

I have to say, I don't understand the resistance to providing guidance and advice. Not saying get involved and speak with coaches. That's unacceptable IMO, but don't think this is really any different than your kid asking you for advice on other very important life decisions. If your kid asked you about buying a car, would you provide guidance or expect them to figure it out? JMO

sure, but this is a decision on skipping a mandatory meeting vs skipping one class.  We all realize that college kids skip classes from time to time, right?

He got recruited there to play Baseball, correct?  You go to the meeting!  If my kid had to ask my advice about such a “dilemma” that has an obvious and basic solution, we’ve got much bigger problems.

So yeah, in this case I’d say “figure it out”, and maybe wonder if he was stoned when he asked the question.  Seriously

@3and2Fastball posted:

sure, but this is a decision on skipping a mandatory meeting vs skipping one class.  We all realize that college kids skip classes from time to time, right?

He got recruited there to play Baseball, correct?  You go to the meeting!  If my kid had to ask my advice about such a “dilemma” that has an obvious and basic solution, we’ve got much bigger problems.

So yeah, in this case I’d say “figure it out”, and maybe wonder if he was stoned when he asked the question.  Seriously

I see your point and generally agree, if it's a matter of missing a class. If it involed dropping the class, then for me, and my kids, I'd want to at least know about it.

First this thread started because I was perplexed by a coach scheduling practice when they did and wanted to know by some here if they've seen this before and how their kid handled it.  I'm sure coach didn't do that on purpose for any reason like seeing who's dedicated, I'm sure it was unavoidable, but let's see how flexible he is.  Again this isn't U Texas and it isn't Augie.

Couple of Points:

1. Student-Athlete, not Athlete-Student, if the goal was go to college to improve draft position, that's another story, you can always go back to school after all that's done and take school serious then.  Lot of respect to those that can do both.  But son's priorities are school first, baseball is a bonus.

2. Conflict of a Meeting, Game, etc.  fine, one offs here and there can be worked around with professors/coach. A daily practice that is in the middle of core class time is a bit more than a few classes missed.  But I am sure when he talks to his coach there will be the ability to work around it.  (Thanks Ozone for some coach insight)

3. My wife and I are paying the bills, decisions on all school issues will be a joint discussion between our son and us.  He is fully aware of this without it ever being said.  And our job is to make sure he's thought through all the options and potential risks by us asking him questions and bringing up issues so that he can determine the best course of action, not to dictate what to do.  He knows his guidelines, as in, he will graduate in 4 years or he pays for anything beyond, same deal my parents gave me.  As is, he will leave school with 0 debt, unless he pushes his undergrad past 4 years.  He understands what an advantage that is.

4. I will never, ever, discuss issues with a coach or make myself even known to him by my own actions.  In fact I am not happy there is a parent group organizing the trip to spring training and taking their kids to dinner every night.  I think the coach tolerates it because they do fund raising, but no way I would as a coach tolerate it.  Honestly, I thought that parent involvement shit ended with Travel ball once you no longer had to be the transportation for your kid.  (ie the "look, how's he supposed to get to practice at 4:30, we work for a living")

5. If he is considered a key option on the mound, he will play regardless, I'm pretty sure of that... if his decision is class over ball, and it affects his opportunity to play because a coach is inflexible, then he deals with it and then the tough decision has to be made.

6. Spot the offspeed vs. fastball by the white showing when he breaks his hands, and/or by trajectory and spin.  But you should be guessing anyway based on paying attention.

@HSDad22 posted:

4. I will never, ever, discuss issues with a coach or make myself even known to him by my own actions.  In fact I am not happy there is a parent group organizing the trip to spring training and taking their kids to dinner every night.  I think the coach tolerates it because they do fund raising, but no way I would as a coach tolerate it.

Not sure this is an issue.  My son went to a D1 and if they were at an away game / weekend it was pretty normal for the players to go to dinner with the parents if they had a free night

Son is having to decide what to do but not as bad.  One of his primary NIL deals is having an open house next week the same time as the 2nd class of the new semester.  He is trying to figure out what to do.  He asked my advice.  I said ask the professor the first day if you will miss something crucial and tell him/her why.  He will also have to tell baseball coach because they are notified if a player misses a class.

He has to figure it out to schedule his private flight to the open house deal and back.

I ultimately told him he is a big boy.  Figure it out.  I won't be the one hurting.

Love all your points. On point 4 - we use spring trip as a team building tool. In those eight days, we play 14 games and practice in between. We find out more about a kid after traveling, rooming, eating and lights out with everyone. Of course, if the parents show up they can take their kid to dinner, with permission. Lots of stories come out of those trips..... some good and some bad, but it's truly what carries you through the season.

Back when my son was a high school freshman I had a chat with parents at a NESCAC game. For anyone not familiar NESCAC’s are very HA D3. One told me regarding that school and several agreed if important classes/tests interfere with sports the student will not be on the bus and the coaches accept it as the way it is.

The conference tournament is held over two weekends in May with Friday games. A couple of kids missed Friday with finals and drove themselves there for the rest of the weekend.

My father was fifth consecutive generation there. He nearly broke the streak until he transferred after a football injury at a Big Ten. So, I became the black sheep of the family by playing baseball at a D1. My kids just rolled their eyes when they were pressured about attending. Neither attended. Both played D1. To quote my son, “My high school has a nicer field. And it has a larger enrollment.”

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

Not sure this is an issue.  My son went to a D1 and if they were at an away game / weekend it was pretty normal for the players to go to dinner with the parents if they had a free night

I think the difference in my eyes is it's Spring Training Camp in prep for the conference season.  They are picking up, flying 1000 miles to not just get to warm area to play early but to be immersed in baseball, to prepare for season, gel as a team, and see what they have for a team against competition that isn't them; a trip the school and program pays for to get better as a team.  Away from distractions.  It's not a PG tournament or vacation.  Anything that derails that I wouldn't be happy about.  There was significantly more in the details of the parent trip I didn't mention.  I couldn't tell who was running the itinerary for the week, the coach or the parents.

I do not see an issue with your scenario of a player who's at an away game, potentially near where they are from and the parents go to the game and the player asks permission to go to dinner that night, maybe one of the few games they can go see each other.  But every night during the trip, 8 days in a row?

Since Ozone is a D3 coach, I'll be interested in his comments on the fact that NCAA D3, as well as D1 and D2, have a rule that "No class time shall be missed for practice activities..." except when the practice is "...in conjunction with an away-from-home contest."  (There are also limited exceptions for post-season competition.)

I've been in college athletics way too long to know that this rule can be loosely followed, but that is the rule at all three NCAA levels. 

@Rick at Informed Athlete

Loose as a goose, as they say. Some professors are strict, and we steer the team away from them. Since they all get their classes before the rest of the student body, they can usually avoid them. The profs do lessons online or give out the work ahead of time. That skirts around the "missing class time".  Especially when we miss a week for our spring trip. We have a problem with some labs that require the student to be live. A lot of work gets done on those 12-15 hour bus rides down south.