D3 recruits may be able to sign commitment letters soon.

Thanks Bishops for posting this good news!

BLD, thank you for the post and link.

Boy, I am not at all sure this is a positive development. IMO, and I have posted it here, the NLI can be so artificial.  Is the article saying we want to make D3 athletics and the NLI similar to everyone gets a ribbon?

For so many, an NLI is not meaningful into the future. It is not any reliable predictor of success or even competing in college.  ESPN has turned the NLI into something it never was, and is not except, perhaps for football and basketball.

Saving a D3 coach time/effort in recruiting after January of the senior year seems to make it easier for coaches. As BOF posted just today, the recruiting of his son accelerated in January of his senior year, after he did not sign a D1/2 NLI.

Whether it is for a pat on the back to get publicity or to lessen the "burden" on a D3 coach, I am not persuaded by either position, as a reason to change the current procedures...no NLI.

Infield Dad. I agree with you. My son did not choose his school until the end of May of his senior year, at his Baseball Banquet. There is no way that he would have been ready to sign today. He was just starting to really focusing on D3 about this time.
If you asked him today, if he regrets not having a paper to sign? I believe his answer would be no. D3 recruiting us just starting in earnest at some of the top baseball schools. D1 talent that did not get a NLI may now start considering D3.
I would be totally against it if it was binding.

I'd hate to disagree, but I do with the comment about this making it like everyone gets a ribbon.  Only one percent of student athletes make it to the college level.  That is hardly everyone gets a ribbon.  This is a seminal point in the lives of these athletes.  As a father of a child who is signing his NLI today, I am going to enjoy it, take as many pictures as I can, and be extremely proud of my son.  And, yes, I will pat him on the back.

Agree . . .

D3 "commitments," especially those linked to early decision, are already heavily stacked in favor of the institution.  They impose zero costs, consequences, or constraints on the school, but they take the athlete off everyone else's recruiting board.  The coach may promise a roster spot, but that costs him exactly nothing because he doesn't have a roster limit. 

 

The NLI does NOTHING for the athlete. The money is offered and accepted in the accompanying grant in aid form. All the NLI does is bind the athlete to the school and the transfer rules. I don't know what a "non-binding" NLI would say.

 

I understand why the schools would want this, but I have no idea why prospective D3 athletes would want NLI's.

If this goes through, I'm not sure what that says about D3 athletics in general, what it changes or what problem is solves.

 

It would seem to me that D3 athletics would be changing its charter as a well-rounded participatory college athletic experience just by adding or acknowledging this signing process.  It is not clear to me what problem (if any) this solves.  A non-binding written document has the same status as a non-binding verbal committment.  D3 is perfect just the way it is.  JMO. 

 

I think the point was limited to comparing a DIII "non-binding" letter to a ribbon. An actual NLI is a contract for an athletic scholarship. In DIII, there are no athletic scholarships and no roster limits, so signing a "non-binding" letter wouldn't be a very significant event. It sounds like this is mostly about the DIII commits being left out on Signing Day.

 

For the DIII student athlete and his family, committing to the school, getting your acceptance letter, and often receiving the financial aid package are the significant events during senior year of high school.

 

Basically it is so D3 athletes can participate in signing day if their school has one. It gives the student something to sign.

 

I know several Baseball players who have already "committed" to a D3 school. In my opinion this is not a good idea. The student may have an idea what they are going to pay for he school, but I have seen more than one player commit only to change his mind once they received the financial package. If you have already committed to a D3 school what leverage do you have in negotiating with admissions and the financial aid office.  

I think it is far better to keep your options open. From the article, since the letter is non binding, other schools can still continue to recruit you. But then whats the point of signing? How many coaches are going to say, "yeah, it is not binding but you committed". In reality their is not much they can do, but is their a point to signing a letter that in reality means nothing?If a High School chooses they can still celebrate the D3 commitments, if they chose to without this. 

The more I think about it the more I think it might be the first step down a slippery slope. 

Moosecheese, while I might have overstated the comparison, my perspective on the NLI is much different than yours, but I come at this with a son who did not sign one and had a great college career on and off the field.  Where I think we see the NLI through a very different lenses is whether the NLI being a seminal event  is a fact or question.  One aspect I have learned about playing beyond HS is that once a player steps onto a college baseball field, no one cares who signed an NLI or didn't and what anyone did before means nothing in terms of who plays tomorrow. 

On our local baseball board, a HS coach who is probably with the very top  coaches in the United States commented on the recruiting process,the NLI, the publicizing of NLI's and how the NLI and verbal is too often portrayed and viewed for something it is not, in college baseball.  Below is a cut and paste of his perspectives.  Where I really agree with this coach's perspectives is the NLI not being the destination but rather the "beginning of the pressure to get better."

 

"A college commitment is the beginning of the pressure to get better, not the destination. Players need to have getting better be their top priority rather than where they are playing in college.There needs to be understood standards that must be met to play college ball...   for a baseball player, it(the NLI/scholarship) may have paid for 25% (or less) of ONE year of college with zero assurances for year #2.  In fact, year #2 may be nothing or a reduction or being cut.  The committed athlete may not even make the roster for the spring after just a fall in college.  75% of the frosh play less than 25% of the innings for a division one team. That is published data.  So lauding the commitment, that is shaky to begin with, really feeds this problem."

 

To me, the NLI being something truly important or a seminal time might have a place in college baseball at D1 and D2, especially if others follow the Pac12 and college baseball scholarships become 4 years, not one(or less in too many situations.)

I fully get why many who have son's signing them today are celebrating the NLI and their son. Placed in the  context of a 4 year scholarship, and an NLI being an opportunity for the future involving incredibly hard work, determination and the "demand" to get better, I think the NLI can be important, Placed in the context of celebrating at school, getting publicity or being a seminal event, such as we see on ESPN with football and basketball, my view is the NLI can be experienced or portrayed as something it really isn't, in terms of the  future those hoping to play college baseball. IMO, so long as anyone having a son signing an NLI realizes the risks, the demands and the fact it is the beginning of a journey far more rigorous than most realize,the NLI can be important.

At the D3 level, I do not believe the NLI can or should be recognized or become a reality.  The article BLD linked, to my reading, suggests the underpinnings for doing a D3 NLI are for all the wrong reasons.

How can it be binding when there is no baseball money being given?

 

Are you saying coaches want to bind players without the coaches being bound in return?  Run from any coach who says that!

 

What do we do about the kid who's told he figures big in the coach's plans, only to show up in the fall of his freshman year to discover there are 55 other kids on the field who were all told the same thing?  Are coaches saying they want to reserve the right to cut kids, but bar them from going elsewhere at the same time? 

 

Hopefully someone will keep players from getting shafted.  The fact that a player feels left out of the hoopla because he didn't get a signing ceremony or some BS is not good enough reason to walk into a trap here.

The NLI is a document that heavily favors the College - NOT the athlete. Have you ever read and actual NLI? 

Great read on the reality of the NLI:

 

http://www.moneyplayersblog.co...g/2010/11/index.html

I see a risk with every college student or athlete.  If a student is not an athlete, there are risks.  If he or she does not perform academically, any scholarship or aid can and will be pulled.  Yes, the aid or academic scholarship usually covers four years, and the athletic scholarship does not, at most institutions, but the risks are at least similar.  An athlete should already understand that he or she has to work hard at the next level.  If not, a high school coach, travel coach or parents have not done their jobs.  

First I agree with much that has been posted here.

 

If you read the article it indicates the the NCAA will make this a ceremonial document that is non binding. To me this is fine, kids can sign and enjoy the process if they want. As noted by BLD at least in baseball much of the DIII recruiting comes after the signing period anyway.

 

Notice that the coaches wanted to make it binding (why not....if you are a coach) but there is/was resistance to this.  Make it a ceremonial document and move on. 

 

As a side note when my son "signed" he was signing the academic scholarship documents, which is what was important and I can assure you we celebrated that! 

 

Thanks for the link BLD.

Don't the Ivies provide something like this already -- a likelihood of admittance letter for student athletes.  They don't give athletic scholarship, as I understand it.   But I know kids who sign this letter on signing days at school signing ceremonies.  I think this is a completely non-binding thing. 

SD,

 

Not exactly.  Likely Letters come from Admission to inform a recruit they are extremely likely to be admitted (after the recruit has verbally committed to the Coach) if the recruit keeps their grades up, doesn't commit a serious crime, and provides an Early Decision application.  There is nothing to sign officially other than your ED application (which is binding) and application $ check.  Likley Letters are intended to compete with NLIs for athletes that Ivys want.  Ivy recruits can sign a blank piece of paper at signing cereomonies (as my oldest son did) at his high school.  

 

Some of the more savvy Ivy recruits will verbally commit, apply RD then change their online application to ED (binding) once the Likely Letter is received by the Ivy athlete from Admissions.  I would only consider this if the recruit has other options and a good amount of leverage.

 

Let me know if you have questions or if that didn't clarify.

"If you read the article it indicates the the NCAA will make this a ceremonial document that is non binding. To me this is fine, kids can sign and enjoy the process if they want. As noted by BLD at least in baseball much of the DIII recruiting comes after the signing period anyway."

 

Well, that takes care of my initial concerns.

 

Now I'm just concerned that the indulgent, helicopter parent, "everyone gets a trophy" attitude has infected the NCAA's offices.  Like they weren't mentally afflicted enough as it is.

 

fenway,

Can you clarify why this approach is an advantage?  The RD application would seem to reduce the chances of getting a Likely Letter and work against the recruit, and if he really wants to go to that school ED doesn't seem like a big risk.  But I'm sure I'm missing something.  Thanks.

 

Smitty28,

 

Ivy recruitment can be more risky than traditional D1 due to the Admissions requirements.  The other risk is that many top ivy recruits will end up passing over previous D1 scholarship offers due to the ivy recruitment timetable.  Many people I know understand this risk and have passed up on D1 scholarships to attend one of these (Ivy) schools mostly for academic reasons.

 

LL are issued after Oct 1 into December. There is really no getting around this additional risk the recruit is taking on.  I'm suggesting the risk can be managed if the recruit has leverage and options.  Leverage could be in the form of recruitment interest from other Ivys, Patriot or D1 interest.   The Ivy Coach is under more pressure to follow through with Admissions to issue a LL for the recruit if he knows the recruit will change his application from RD to ED.  This approach puts added incentive or pressure on the Coach to make sure a recruit gets a LL or he could go to another Ivy or D1 program.  If the Coach can't get Admissions to issue a LL, then the recruit isn't bound to the ED and would be free to pursue other options.

 

Please send me a PM Dialog if you want to discuss further as this is getting away from teh OPs original topic.

Fenway ... I've been told plenty of NESCAC athletes (of all sports) could have played mid level D1. Is part of this due to the Ivy admissions process going south on them at the last minute, other D1 offers are off the table and they want a top academic college?

Thanks fenway, this helps.  I wasn't thinking of the timeline issue and how this plays into things.

RJM,

 

I've helped many folks with both Ivy and NESCAC baseball recruiting over the last 5 years.  My son was recruited & offered by schools in these conferences as well as some mid-level D1s.  My opinion is based on what I've seen & heard and what others have shared with me.  I think there are a couple different scenarios that play out every year with regards to specific candidates considering Ivy and NESCAC schools.  There is very little difference between Ivy and NESCAC candidates academically.   I do think there is significantly deeper baseball talent on almost all Ivy rosters, and I think the Ivys get first choice when it comes to most of these baseball recruits.  Most of the NESCAC schools offer an Early Decision 2 which works out well for them in terms of (possibly) picking up additional qualfified recruits that didn't work out elsewhere.  I also believe there are a lot of folks who genuinely believe a Liberal Arts College is the best place for them academically so they prefer the smaller college NESCAC experience.   Again, JMO and experience..

 

PS...I really admire the way both of these conference make athletics a part of the student experience.  In my mind, the NCAA could learn alot from both the Ivy and NESCAC folks.  I know my son would have been happy with either choice. 

I'm not sure how this changes anything.  Many D-3 players have signing ceremonies already.  So, the NCAA is authorizing them to sign a blank NLI...errrr...ceremonial document?  One would think the NCAA has bigger problems to address.

Fenway, could you comment on how/if Patriot League teams relate to your comments about Ivy and NESCAS recruiting?

Currently at the signing ceremony, if a HS includes D3 recruits, the recruits are signing a blank piece of paper or an acceptance of their Merit scholarship awards. In most cases it is a blank piece of paper. 

This proposal would change that to a Non binding form congratulating the student on being chosen and selecting to move on and play at a D3 institution. 

For baseball this would effect few athletes as their are not many D3 baseball players who have committed at the Early signing period. 

From the NCAA's point of view it is providing Publicity for D3. Here is a post from HTTPS://D#boards.com, by Dave McHugh

quote:

Several thoughts... I first talked about this on my trip to Indy and those at the office were very enthusiastic about this. They see it as a chance for Division III to get some headlines. Instead of the D1 and DIIs getting all of the attention when a student-athlete chooses where they are going to college. This can also be a cool story for small, local entities. All of the sudden one of the town's favorite players has a story about them going to a college with pictures and everything. Also, the press will get information about Division III at the event and thus the ideals of Division III can be spread out a bit more to people who may not be as familiar as the rest of us.

Secondly, the non-binding part is great. Sure, it doesn't mean they have to go to the school, but when those signing at the DIs and DIIs of the world they are actually signing important legal documents. It takes on a whole different meaning. Now, to the point that they can still go somewhere else, sure... but I don't think student-athletes are going to "sign a paper" unless they have actually made their decision on a school. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to them either.

And then this: why not celebrate our student-athletes in more ways. Some of these individuals are incredible students, people, and athletes. They don't get the attention they deserve. This can be a way, even on a small media level, that allows them to be celebrated while also celebrating the division. I love this idea and hope it only helps raise more awareness for Division III and the student-athletes that make it great.

I keep waffling on this proposal.

"And then this: why not celebrate our student-athletes in more ways. Some of these individuals are incredible students, people, and athletes. They don't get the attention they deserve. This can be a way, even on a small media level, that allows them to be celebrated while also celebrating the division. I love this idea and hope it only helps raise more awareness for Division III and the student-athletes that make it great."

 

By comparison, how much awareness does the NCAA generate about the D3 CWS champion,  the D3 All-American team or those who get drafted and graduate in 4 years from the D3 level?  I am having trouble with the concept of "celebrating" or "recognizing" those on the way in when there is so little time, effort or media for those who are actually competing on the field and in the classrooms of D3 schools. 

This does not even consider the fact that more than a few won't end up playing by their sophomore year and some earlier than that.

I am just not comfortable that this is what D3 is about or should be about, but then again I am not overly fond of the NLI at any level.

To update this thread, 72% of the NCAA Division III membership voted this past weekend at the annual NCAA Convention to approve the use of a "non-binding standardized celebratory form" after the prospect has been accepted to a Division III institution.  While the use of the form will be optional, only the standardized form provided by the NCAA will be permissible. 

 

The other point that I think is very interesting, is that it can be used at any time after August 1, 2015 (when the rule change becomes effective) as long as the prospect has been accepted for enrollment to the college.  While the form will be standardized, there is no standard "signing date or signing period" for the use of this form.  I predict that will be changed at a future NCAA Convention, if not before. 

Yay!  Everyone gets a trophy!

LOL actually maybe the top 5% get a trophy but still funny.

So most D3 athletes who do not go Early action or Early Decision will not be able to use this form until they get an acceptance from the school. I know regular decision comes after the early NLI, so regular decision candidates wont be crashing the NLI party. Early Decision and early action, when do they come out before the early signing or after? 

This will be SO MUCH better than signing the blank piece of paper. <sarcasm>

What does it matter?  As long at the college tweets that they've signed "Johnny Baseball" and PerfectGame re-tweets, it's all good!

 

That's all the kids are looking at anyway.....

My son's NLI was signed in spring of his senior year. He agreed to it and when he recieved it we all (parents and him) signed an returned it. There was,also, a young man on his HS team that did same in March for a D2. About a week after my son signed they had a ceremony signing for those 2 boys. On the table was blank papers and the boys pretended to sign them. We celebrated his signing (which meant he had decided where to attend college) as a family the evening he actually signed. Same happened for his teammate, I believe. The ceremony was for the school so it could go on thier website. It was over in 10 minutes. Line up, parents behind, smile, take a picture. shake hands,

 

Not sure why the ceremony is so important to some, but to each thier own on how you celebrate. no wrong way IMO. So if the D3 want to sign a blank papaer or something else not much difference.