Dead Period Extended to Aug 31

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

Funny ..... it seems some D1 coaches have “found a way” which I know for a fact but I’m not going to explain it. They are out there.Also IMO no D3 is picking off anyone that truly has D1 opportunities without that being explored. Maybe a HA situation but not the run of the mill D3. Like for us, yes the D3 coaches are out and getting super aggressive but how could we possibly have a conversation about anything serious unless we really know all the options. The attention is nice but......

Could that way be to subscribe/talk to scouting businesses that they trust?

Nope..... in person . And there are a few ways which is interesting.

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

Nope..... in person . And there are a few ways which is interesting.

Ok so let's here it  fmr coach now Dad!

Do you know the penalty for coach recruiting when not allowed?

Yes I’m familiar. In each case these scenarios were run by their compliance depts. I’m just telling you what is going on that’s all. Don’t shoot the messenger.

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

Funny ..... it seems some D1 coaches have “found a way” which I know for a fact but I’m not going to explain it. They are out there.Also IMO no D3 is picking off anyone that truly has D1 opportunities without that being explored. Maybe a HA situation but not the run of the mill D3. Like for us, yes the D3 coaches are out and getting super aggressive but how could we possibly have a conversation about anything serious unless we really know all the options. The attention is nice but......

Appreciate this post. D3 schools aren’t picking off D1 talent (with a rare exception). What a joke. 

I understand coaches who have sons on team are allowed to attend games. Is this what you are referring to?  If not what are you referring to?

You said yes, that you are familiar with the  penalties? 

So many schools have furloughed coaches. That has left a loophole which some are readily taking advantage of. More than a few in the Northeast have done this.The second scenario is a little more complicated but given that a P5 compliance officer is oking it I’m going to go with that. I’ll see what happens this weekend.

@adbono posted:

Appreciate this post. D3 schools aren’t picking off D1 talent (with a rare exception). What a joke. 

I wasn't saying its happening, it was a comment made by someone who's only seeing d3 coaches signed up for events.  I bet you a D3 school could pick off a D1 talent though.   Its July, D1 spots this year are tough, all the top schools have filled up their slots.  The draft was 5 rounds.  Seniors came back.  Sure there are a lot of less competitive less academic D1 schools with spots open.   There are also a lot of highly competitive good to great academic D3 schools with 8-10 spots to fill.   You read that comment and you are thinking what - P5 level talent, one level down D1?  Yeah, that isn't going to happen if their focus is high end baseball.  They prob wouldn't get patriot league hopefuls. But good players who are hanging out there right now with slots filling up and dead periods getting extended why is it unreasonable to think a very high end D3 couldn't pick of D1 talent.  Why is that a joke? You clearly understand the environment out there right now.

Just for clarification , I said a “run of the mill” D3. Not a HA or very competitive D3. I think we can all agree that even though MCLA and Williams are 5 miles apart those are 2 different D3 opportunities.I’m just saying in our case you have mid major D1’s still not even close to filled at all and even a very solid D3 program in there but I’m not sure he would commit without waiting to explore the D1 opportunity to its conclusion at this point. Too much prereading and phone calling still going on. It’s just a really interesting/weird year.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I wasn't saying its happening, it was a comment made by someone who's only seeing d3 coaches signed up for events.  I bet you a D3 school could pick off a D1 talent though.   Its July, D1 spots this year are tough, all the top schools have filled up their slots.  The draft was 5 rounds.  Seniors came back.  Sure there are a lot of less competitive less academic D1 schools with spots open.   There are also a lot of highly competitive good to great academic D3 schools with 8-10 spots to fill.   You read that comment and you are thinking what - P5 level talent, one level down D1?  Yeah, that isn't going to happen if their focus is high end baseball.  They prob wouldn't get patriot league hopefuls. But good players who are hanging out there right now with slots filling up and dead periods getting extended why is it unreasonable to think a very high end D3 couldn't pick of D1 talent.  Why is that a joke? You clearly understand the environment out there right now.

Yes I understand the environment. I also understand the difference between D1 & D3 talent. I also understand the mindset of 18 year old kids seeing as I coach a bunch of them. Kids that think they are D1 (which is most of them) aren’t going to go D3 - even when they should. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I wasn't saying its happening, it was a comment made by someone who's only seeing d3 coaches signed up for events.  I bet you a D3 school could pick off a D1 talent though.   Its July, D1 spots this year are tough, all the top schools have filled up their slots.  The draft was 5 rounds.  Seniors came back.  Sure there are a lot of less competitive less academic D1 schools with spots open.   There are also a lot of highly competitive good to great academic D3 schools with 8-10 spots to fill.   You read that comment and you are thinking what - P5 level talent, one level down D1?  Yeah, that isn't going to happen if their focus is high end baseball.  They prob wouldn't get patriot league hopefuls. But good players who are hanging out there right now with slots filling up and dead periods getting extended why is it unreasonable to think a very high end D3 couldn't pick of D1 talent.  Why is that a joke? You clearly understand the environment out there right now.

My 2021 probably fits into this very specific category of player.  A HA borderline D1/D3 case. Through the Fall, lots of interest from D3, some interest from D1 pending an impressive summer where he could show improvement.  Well, that's a legitimate challenge now.  Given the situation, D3's are pressing, and D1's are either just going with the kids they saw and liked earlier, not adding many more bodies, or waiting for showcases.  And even then they can only observe via livestream and can't connect in person.  No campus visits, overnights, private workout, etc.  All of the interpersonal character stuff that HA's value.  The kinds of normal process that potentially could have pushed my  son from one category to the other given how close he is on the metrics side. Frankly, it's not really a big deal to him, he's just looking to land at the right school and a majority of them he likes are D3. But he does fall into the tight description in a very peculiar and difficult to navigate year. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I am helping a friend plan out how to help her 2021 RHP.  Her husband died of cancer about 8 years ago and her son reclassed to 2021, was a 2020 with my son.  I just called her and she knew already!  All the camps emailed at the end of last week.  She had an interesting take - the D3 coaches are able to go to events and D1's coaches are not.  They are getting the opportunity to pick off the remaining D1 talents.  I don't know if that's correct but could be true. Her son is laser focused on being a "D1" player however.   It's a tough situation for her and her son.  He wants the Patriot League.  Hit 89 on the gun last week.  I told her the magic # is 90 MPH so tell him to go find that...

89 should be very much within reach of a Patriot. He should be emailing those schools hard right now with video, I'm watching kids commit left and right. 

Update.... weekend went exactly as described  with D1,2,3 coaches in attendance. So evidently it is happening. Wondering how many programs will figure this out. Also tells you the huge difference between travel (with good relationships) and legion or town ball where they in general don’t have the relationships. Keep believing you can play locally and “if you are good they will find you”.

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

Update.... weekend went exactly as described  with D1,2,3 coaches in attendance. So evidently it is happening. Wondering how many programs will figure this out. Also tells you the huge difference between travel (with good relationships) and legion or town ball where they in general don’t have the relationships. Keep believing you can play locally and “if you are good they will find you”.

Where was this?  Really surprised that any D1 or D2 coaches would risk this right now.  

It is most certainly happening.  This should not be any surprise at all.  Better players equals more wins.  More wins equals better job security and more money.  Take a moment and think about all the stories YOU KNOW OF where a college coach was either bending or breaking the rules and got caught.  That happens regularly in non-Covid years.  With the NCAA continuing to handcuff D1 and D2 while others are pretty free to roam, its becomes pretty simple.  With massive rosters expected to walk on to campus in roughly a month or so, how many coaches will be able to get out to see prospects after 8/31?  And that's assuming the dead period doesn't get extended again - again.  Something has to give.  Many will strictly adhere to the rules, but many will succumb to human nature.  Most are always looking hard for an edge. Not condoning it, but I don't understand how it could surprise anyone.  Maybe I'm cynical, but I fully EXPECT it.

I talked with a D2 Coach and was told that if the Coach is being paid to "instruct" he can attend the camp/event. Saw a few today at a showcase tournament at an academy, they basically sat back behind the backstop and took notes........ Each pitcher would be pulled aside afterward and be given given feedback. (the instruction)

Then the question comes to mind.   Would you sign with a coach that illegally recruited your kid during this period whether it was at a tournament he was not supposed to be at or brought you on campus for an illegal trip or any other illegal recruiting?

If you answer yes.  Then you cannot be the ones who are trashing coaches for not honoring the NLI's or withdrawing scholarships or any other thing that is not above board. 

As I have told my youth for years.  If you marry someone that you cheated with at the beginning, then you can't much complain when they cheat on you.  How/where you find them is normally how/where you will lose them.  Same with coaches. 

Dan and pitching, none of this is illegal at all so no I don’t have an issue with it. Velo describes it perfectly, as long as the kids are within 50 miles then they can instruct and sit in dugouts. Keep in mind this is being run by compliance departments first so obviously it’s legit. So maybe stop trashing coaches. I for one am happy because I’m not sure why my 21 has to pay the price for the overall stupidity of the NCAA? The very real idea that the dead period will get extended to 12/31 is how all these coaches are operating. So anything that becomes an “advantage” for the player to help move the process forward is a good thing in my mind.

Pitching fan, I can appreciate your philosophy, but in the real world, holes get poked in it.  College coaches - like everyone else - are not binary.  They're not boy scouts and cheaters.  Very few are.  The vast majority live somewhere in between.  It's a stretch to think any coach that is bending/breaking the recruiting rules right now breaks rules regularly.  Conversely, it's every bit as much a stretch to think that any coach who strictly adheres to the recruiting rules right now regularly adheres to all other rules.  The world is grey, not binary.  There are good people who break the rules and bad people who strictly adhere to them.  The onus is on us to work to gain a holistic assessment of people by doing our due diligence.  You're free to dismiss someone for a rules violation but you may end up dismissing what MIGHT be the best overall fit for a player.  To each their own.

Fmr Coach, Can I ask which schools were at the event?  A sampling? I am aware of a few HA D3 coaches that still don't have clearance from their schools to travel.  Writing coaches now to  figure out what events they actually might attend, but it would be helpful to get a sense of who's been out there at events already.

Honestly I’d rather not be specific publicly. Obviously you can see what area I’m from so you can kinda put 2 and 2 together. We have had D3 coaches at nearly every one of our practices which is somewhat different. As you mention some D3 coaches have also told us that they still can’t leave campus also which is interesting. All these events are very specific private games/camps that involve 2 respected programs so I’m not sure it would be a barometer as to which school will be out at which showcases. This is just totally different. I think this year more than any it’s an advantage to have a good summer program with working relationships and communication.

Anyone have an idea when we’ll hear from the NCAA again? They extended to 8/31 back on 6/25. Would expect to hear something in the next week, right?

I’ve heard from a college coach they expect it to extend through fall to keep a level playing field for those that can’t get out or have people visit. Also to keep everyone safe for the on campus players too....

just hope the 2021s get a waiver so they can go get official pictures and NLI signing stuff..... 

After they sign are they allowed since they’re no longer recruits and therefore commits? 

@Eokerholm posted:

I’ve heard from a college coach they expect it to extend through fall to keep a level playing field for those that can’t get out or have people visit. Also to keep everyone safe for the on campus players too....

just hope the 2021s get a waiver so they can go get official pictures and NLI signing stuff..... 

After they sign are they allowed since they’re no longer recruits and therefore commits? 

Not sure if  you are aware but the signing period is typically a dead period for D1.   Also, as far as I am aware, they are not allowed to give the recruit official merchandise until they actually set foot on campus.

They don’t get to keep anything or any gear but they gear up and take photos for the signing announcements or have in the past. 

No recruiting is going as it is “the conclusion of recruiting” per NCAA website. http://www.ncaa.org/student-at...recruiting-calendars

“Signing an National Letter of Intent ends the recruiting process since participating schools are prohibited from recruiting student-athletes who have already signed letters with other participating schools.”

Hopefully they let the guys go for some celebration and photos.

Typically signees have signing celebrations at their HS.  The program will not even announce the signees until they set foot on campus the following fall. 

Not the case at Georgia Tech, hence my comments. NLI at high school but official photos as a group beforehand.....

@Eokerholm posted:

Not the case at Georgia Tech, hence my comments. NLI at high school but official photos as a group beforehand.....

Before he signs NLI?

Yeah, we had our official visit in October of senior year. All of the incoming recruiting class attended.  They dressed in uniform and got pictures, had a big dinner and a breakfast and attended a football game.  It was just a week before signing day.  Some schools announce signees, some don't.  My son's school does not, but I saw plenty posting welcomes to the kids who signed.

Exactly this too at GT

I guess that you can do whatever you wish but cannot post on social media until NLI is signed and into the school. 

Most coaches do not announce recruits until they set foot on campus, but some do. 

Not technically supposed to take pics with coach until you sign.

@TPM posted:

I guess that you can do whatever you wish but cannot post on social media until NLI is signed and into the school. 

Most coaches do not announce recruits until they set foot on campus, but some do. 

Not technically supposed to take pics with coach until you sign.

Not challenging you, but why is this a rule?

As if the coaches don't know who will be signing the NLIs the following week. This is one of those classic rules that makes people roll their eyes at the NCAA. Let the kids take the pictures and post. Putting it out there would probably get people more excited about signing day and incoming classes. 

@PABaseball posted:

Not challenging you, but why is this a rule?

As if the coaches don't know who will be signing the NLIs the following week. This is one of those classic rules that makes people roll their eyes at the NCAA. Let the kids take the pictures and post. Putting it out there would probably get people more excited about signing day and incoming classes. 

I don't know why, kids can do what they wish, coaches not so much.

I am assuming that signing an NLI doesn't guarantee the player will actually make it to campus the following year.  I have never seen a coach list there signees until they become students.

Their reasoning is that it puts undue pressure on a kid to sign the NL life. It goes back to football players who had multiple offers and coaches were showing up at their houses and their schools on signing day.  It is not for the ones who do it right it is for the ones who do it wrong. They were coaches out there that put a lot of pressure on kids and that is one of a have the dead periods.  

@TPM posted:

I don't know why, kids can do what they wish, coaches not so much.

I am assuming that signing an NLI doesn't guarantee the player will actually make it to campus the following year.  I have never seen a coach list there signees until they become students.

Um....Check Twitter. Tons of schools/programs tweet after NLI welcoming students in uniform from picture day. TONS! 

@Eokerholm posted:

Um....Check Twitter. Tons of schools/programs tweet after NLI welcoming students in uniform from picture day. TONS! 

And I am sure that there are "tons" that don't. I am not talking about twitter but rather publications that are put out through the SID.

Yeah the guys are more excited about twitter and photos in Nov than publications when they show up to school next August Lol.

Way more announce the signees in top 25 post NLI. They like the social media activity and attention. 

@Eokerholm posted:

Yeah the guys are more excited about twitter and photos in Nov than publications when they show up to school next August Lol.

Way more announce the signees in top 25 post NLI. They like the social media activity and attention. 

Ok you win, if you say so.