Decision to be drafted or go to college

I feel bad for this kid, hopefully he recovers and resumes career. If that doesn't work out for him at least he'll have chance for a degree from Notre Dame - with prestige of that degree and alumni connections - may be worth more over lifetime than any bonus $.

Look at the other side of the coin--if he went pro and this happened he would be without the ND scholarship and education and then where is he

I wish the boy the best--he made the right decision in my eyes.

TRhit

TR let us look at the other side of your coin. As a top rounder with "life changing" money. He would be able to go to college and study unencumbered by also having to be a major D-1 athlete. That position has merit as well.

I wish him well. He may never know the other side of his dream.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

BIG

Not arguing that point-- but "life changing money', I have a true affection for that term because those that use it the most, and BIG I am not aiming the arrow so do not take it personal,, are those whose kids who get drafted 1400 to 1500 or do not get drafted at all.

Also history has shown that the majority of kids who sign out of HS do not go to college when their career ends or is curtailed by injury. Why do you think MLB teams are so willing to grant that clause in the contract !!

My sincerest wish is that he be able to come back next season and be a force on the mound for ND-- one never wants to see a kids career end with an injury such as this.

TRhit

Certainly the boys talent would have put him in the top 2 rounds. JMO Life changing money to one kid might be 100k another may be 1 mill. One kid might want to be set for life. Another may just want enough to supplement, modestly, their income in the minors so that they can live their dream. Top 2 roumds, is life changing by most standards.

I understand that most do not go back to college. I am just not willing to paint everyone with that brush.

Some feel that kids should follow their dreams so as to live life with no regrets. Though that may not be others opinions, it certainly doesn't make it wrong.

I would just point out that one can make a committment to go back to school and that many do use the program. Certain majors are not conducive to playing ball and I certainly see nothing wrong with "planning" to go after your career is over. Or better yet to go every fall and work towards your degree. Failure to follow a plan later is something that you and your family must deal with. I would stop shrt of saying that players who plan for that are making a mistake. Having a plan is just that. Some "do" follow through. It is all about personal committment.

It is wise that people know the facts. That we can agree on.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

it is my opinion most first or second rounders ,have agents looking out for them and have 4 years of college in their contract,paid for by the team to go anywere they want,at least the few i know of. tough decision real tough

quote:

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Originally posted by TRhit:
Look at the other side of the coin--if he went pro and this happened he would be without the ND scholarship and education and then where is he

I wish the boy the best--he made the right decision in my eyes.

TRhit

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TR, If Manship had turned professional, he would have four years of education at "Notre Dame" paid for and a very thick bankroll also.

Hopefully Notre Dame does Manship a favor by not yanking his $$, if he does not come back well.

Hindsight is easy, but if he threw all those CB's and could have actually passed a physical and cashed a big check with a faulty elbow....well BBscout has a point.

I understand that an education is important. My wife is a professor of Math Ed and it is stressed in our family. To turn down 1st or second round money is not a "wise" decision in my opinion. What it really comes down to is priorities and each family has to decide for themselves. I am sure that my son would not have made the same decision. However, the Manships did what they felt was right. They also felt that the option would be there in the future. If it isn'? Well they get an education.

Let us not be naive, though. If he does not come back he will lose his dollars and have to pay. Had he gone to the pros and got hurt, the college would have been there for him.

The reasoning that "most people don't go back to school" is not a reason to not do it at all, but more of a reason to be well thought out before going pro.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

quote:

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The reasoning that "most people don't go back to school" is not a reason to not do it

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Big is correct - if faced with that decision, you need only think about what "you" will do with your future, not what others did in the past with theirs

lefties? - - - they just aint right!

As a parent whose son may be facing the same decision in June, I can only say that this is a very personal decision and only the family knows why the decision was made,it is not for us to make assumptions. I well understand the dilemma and I am sure if the scholarship was from State U things may have been different. If the coaches are sincere, they will stand behind Manship and give him every opportunity to succeed. And if you think about it, could this decision have been made because the injury was taken into consideration? Remember, there are physicals that have to be passed before someone gives you millions of dollars.
It was recently brought to my attention that many who sign have second thoughts about whether they made the right decision, whereas many that chose college never regretted the decision. To sign, one must be 100% sure, not 99.9% sure that it is the right thing to do. And life changing money does means a lot to different people.

bbscout

With all due respect we do not know that to be fact--quite possible yes-- fact is we do not know nor will we ever know.

I have known many kids who college education in their contract--they got hurt one or two years into their career and never took advantage of the option.

TRhit

1st or 2nd round money would be at least $750K PLUS college money, if he chooses to go. It's difficult for me to imagine turning down that kinda money, especially with the injury/flameout risk of 17/18 year-olds.

GO TO COLLEGE!!!!!!!!!!

TBross,

Could I be so bold as to ask why you are so emphatic? We like to hear different points of view on this subject. Maybe you have a different perspective.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

TBross, I think you are the young man that could push 100 mph at one time if I remember right. You were a mystery to me. A well respected agent now, and welcome to the board. As I recall, you are about 6'9" and about 240lbs.

"Hopefully Notre Dame does Manship a favor by not yanking his $$, if he does not come back well."

Notre Dame has honored their one year scholarship offer to Jeff.. (Remember scholarships are only one year at a time)..

In speaking with another ND pitchers parent, ND was all over Manships surgery and now recovery, they are following him very closely and expect him to return to the mound next spring, if he is physically able to return I am sure that they will again honor his scholarship.

But this asks a question.. I am not sure what happens at this school or other D1 schools when a player cannot physically return to participate a second year due to an injury that did not occur while the player was a member of their program as is the case here. Anyone know?

My ND connection states that this is one outstanding young man who fully expects to get his education from ND and wear an Irish uniform next spring.. I wish him nothing but the very best in his recovery and we do hope to see him next season where he belongs, on the mound.

_______________
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole."

"JustMom"

13th round in 87' Mets in 91 and Giants in 93

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Justmom,
I know of a situation where a freshman sat reshirt one year due to sore arm. Second year needed Tommy John Surgery another redshirted year because they proved the injury was not related to the school.I don't think you can get away with more than that.

There are a low number of full ride scholarships. Even if its true that some don't use it the mlb scholarship is a full ride and it's not for only one year. If you dont use it you lose it same as any other college student.

If you get a lot of money and a full scholarship also its an easy choice for most. Plus you get started earlier towards your MLB future. If you dont think you can play in the MLB, go to school because you probably won't make it in baseball.

If you dont get a lot of money and you're real good, you should go to school and raise your value. If money doesn't matter, do what you want. In fact, do what you want always.

Signable players get drafted higher usually. No two people are alike and life is a gamble. I don't mean Pete Rose kind of gambling. Your choice could be right and it could turn out wrong.

Our son, also is being looked at, and we are told could go in the top 5 rounds, I agree, that this is a BIG step in a young mans life, that can and will mold them forever. With all the things going on, I think these young men, should have STRONG influences, They are 18 most and don't have a CLUE what life has in store, MONEY or not. It shouldn't be about the MONEY..it should be about the love of the game, and that you are getting paid for what they love to do. They need to understand all the HARD work that is going to be involved, and travel, there is alot that the scouts DONOT tell them about life on the road. We as parents, friends, and everyone else, need to support and pray for these young men, they have been given a talent, and how they use it is the ???? at hand.

It seems to me that a lot of MLB player's sons go to college first... Scott Hairston, Nick Swisher, etc. I've always wondered if pro dads tend to encourage their sons in this direction based on their experiences. Any thoughts?

The Road Not Taken


TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference

Robert Frost (1874–1963).

...Nice observation.....


...check the in box

______________________________
I will make errors this season.
Write it down....Derek Jeter

F.O.---

My very favorite poem!!! And, oh, such wisdom...

Is this heaven?...

F.O.

Awesome and wise! I won't delete it!

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Robert Frost (1874–1963).

Who did he play for? (LOL)

There are differing views on this subject and a very important one. The motivation to choose is simply a personal choice based on personal priorities. Being a parent of a player that was drafted in the 5th round out of high school, but chose to attend college instead, let me give you OUR process for attending college.
First, I say “OUR” because our son wanted his mother’s and my guidance throughout the process. He knew that I want him to play professional baseball as much as he wanted. Secondly his mother is a college graduate and I never attended college so he knew our advice would not be completely one-sided.
We tried to detach emotions from the decision which is very difficult to do. Secondly, we asked for advice from everyone. I was surprised that some former players that passed on professional baseball and went to college, suggested that he go pro. Other players that played professional ball suggested he go to college. You take all the information you can, look at your son, size him up emotionally, his maturity level, his attitude, his strengths, his weaknesses, and you set down with him and give him the best advice you can. You tell him the final decision is his and you will support him no matter what his decision. You look at each other and then he’ll ask the most important question in this whole process…… “What do you think I should do Dad?”
Best of luck,
Fungo

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Fungo,

I gotta tell you, I religiously read many of the posts on this site as a parent trying to get as much education as possible to help my '04 and your post on this topic was exceptional. It shows that you and your wife had a realistic perspective on the draft or college thing and you have done what appears to be a tremendous job with your son.

We are doing the very same thing this spring. Son is a pitcher signed with ACC school and we're told will be drafted quite high depending on his spring so the decision is one we are discussing and thinking about often.

If you have any other insightful information, please pass it on, We want to soak up as much of this stuff as possible. By the way, mom and I are both college grads and that has a strong pull to the college ranks.

GLAKCO

i was a 7th round draft....sorry to hear that but an education is far more than a baseball career will get you...college is an experience everyone should try...dont rush your life for things that wont help you in the long run....

jonesin,

Did you go to college or the minors?

Yes it is me and thankn you for the kind words. I really think kids should go to school IF and this is a big if they are cut out for it. Lets all e realistic here some kids are not for college. I don't mean this in a bad way but not all kids can handle the work. The bottom line is this you are either going to go to school and get an education to further your life after baseball or you are going to sign and roll the dice. Because no matter what anyone tells you this career is a HUGE gamble. You have to be both lucky and good. Timing is key. Ask 100 pro player who signed out of High School if they would have gone to school if they had it to do over again and 90 of them will say YES!
I was lucky I played 13 years and made a lot of money but I am 38 years old now and have a family and could not provide for them if not for my education. The money I made playing will not last for ever if I don't work to supplement it!

i did both

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I was lucky I played 13 years and made a lot of money but I am 38 years old now and have a family and could not provide for them if not for my education. The money I made playing will not last for ever if I don't work to supplement it!

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That is great advice. The recognition that you need the education as well as baseball is important. Do you believe that if someone understands this, plans for it, and will follow through and still wants to chase their dream, Should do so? Or do you still recommend school first? Thanks

I had a very interesting conversation with a former player recently, was in the business for 15 years and a World Series MVP. When asking about his options for college, he said in those days you really didn't think twice about it, although you knew how important a degree would be later on. It was grueling and at times he wondered if he would make it, but he worked like a dog. It takes a special type of person to go pro at such an early age but he was determined to take advantage of a free education while following his dream. He had no large signing bonus. He promised his mother that he would earn his degree and it took him 8 off seasons in which he did it. He said when you promise your mom something, you don' go back on your word! He has made a lot of money playing ball, but he is now a thriving businessman with a degree as well as a former ML player.
Fungo has given (as always) great advice. Each situation is different, based on personal priorities and personal choice. You ask 20 different people you will get 20 different answers. You are the only one who knows your son the best. You need to also feel comfortable with the fact that if your son does decide to put off college, will he be able to go later on if he has made that promise to you and himself.

Now, for the other side. I just read that Khalil Greene has won position for starting SS for the Padres this spring. Greene graduated with honors from Clemson University in 2002. He played four years in college,earned his degree and only spent two years getting to ML.
I guess if you think too much about it, will drive you crazy!

Khalil Greene worked like a dog as well. Coach Leggett has a legendary conditioning program that some players take advantage of. Someone with Greenes talent and make-up would have a great chance to successfully make it down either path taken.

He is the exception to most of the rules. At 24 or 25 he has a degree, 1st round bonus cash and a major league shortstop starting job. Good work.

Is he still wearing that flat bill on his cap?

I still would send them to college first. A ery select few will really follow though and get their education. Besides that these kids by and Large are not ready to be lving on their own without any supervision at such a young age. I know every parent thinks their kid is the exception but to be honest I have seen way to many lives and careers lost to off the field problems caused by kids being to young to handle the pro life style. They may still make it to the ML's but will not be all they could be both on and off the field.

You are both right, Greene was the exception to the rule, a phenomenal talent. One will never know if not going straight from HS to minors, would he have been ahead of where he is now. The point was he has the best of both worlds and it must have been a pretty hard decision to turn down the draft so many times and stick with what he believed was the right thing to do for HIM.