I for one can't figure out what the fuss is all about. we seem to have a real standup guy here and he's got all his documents in order. To be sure, I'm just another innocent bystander- but the more of his post's I read the more convinced I am that Jimmy should be one of the very top ranked hitters...
I totally agree, Jimmy got the shaft and Jimmy was completely disrespected.
igball,
Good advice but just to be fair as far as we know the kid has never shot off his mouth at all.
Good advice but just to be fair as far as we know the kid has never shot off his mouth at all.
Lovethegame2
What I got here was about a dozen valuable posts
from the kindest and most knowledgeable people. In addition,all kinds of well intended "sage advice" including warnings against projected consequences of behaviour that doesn't exist here like a player talking about himself or a parent talking to coaches or scouts and dozens of potshots and insults that has nothing to do with rankings or this situation. The situation is that though Oklahoma teams in the NCAA Regional Championship, Legion and USABF World Series outscored their opponents in winning those championships 213-74, there is only 1 guy rated in the Ooklahoma Class of 2012, a wondeful PO that hit .156 last year and got to bat in the area code games. Its not about me or my son but an entire group of hard working humble kids, most of whom are being ignored relative to other states coverage and not because of their performance or ability.
What I got here was about a dozen valuable posts
from the kindest and most knowledgeable people. In addition,all kinds of well intended "sage advice" including warnings against projected consequences of behaviour that doesn't exist here like a player talking about himself or a parent talking to coaches or scouts and dozens of potshots and insults that has nothing to do with rankings or this situation. The situation is that though Oklahoma teams in the NCAA Regional Championship, Legion and USABF World Series outscored their opponents in winning those championships 213-74, there is only 1 guy rated in the Ooklahoma Class of 2012, a wondeful PO that hit .156 last year and got to bat in the area code games. Its not about me or my son but an entire group of hard working humble kids, most of whom are being ignored relative to other states coverage and not because of their performance or ability.
I don't think anyone insinuated the boy was talking about himself...
Lets try this from a different angle...
If you think it is tough getting recognized and recruited in Oklahoma, try getting recognized on the shores of Lake Erie when it is snowing out. Nobody goes to those games
Seriously, I think we have beat this one to death.
Lets try this from a different angle...
If you think it is tough getting recognized and recruited in Oklahoma, try getting recognized on the shores of Lake Erie when it is snowing out. Nobody goes to those games
Seriously, I think we have beat this one to death.
Standup- have followed this from the start and had to "bite my tongue" several times when you kept coming back @ everyone.
It may not have been your intent but your 1st post sounded like a disgruntled dad talking up his son. PG was nice enough to come on here and discuss this with you. At that point I think you should have let it go.
You now say "it's not about me or my son but about an entire group of hardworking kids". Give it up, change your screen name to "Sit Down" and just take experienced posters advice about how to help get your son to the next level.
I hope all this doesn't get back to your son as it might embarrass him.
Good luck in the future for your son. Hope you get to watch him play baseball many more years.
It may not have been your intent but your 1st post sounded like a disgruntled dad talking up his son. PG was nice enough to come on here and discuss this with you. At that point I think you should have let it go.
You now say "it's not about me or my son but about an entire group of hardworking kids". Give it up, change your screen name to "Sit Down" and just take experienced posters advice about how to help get your son to the next level.
I hope all this doesn't get back to your son as it might embarrass him.
Good luck in the future for your son. Hope you get to watch him play baseball many more years.
standup,
You came out of retirement but you did the same thing that you did before you retired, which leads me to beleive that you really haven't listened to what those who have been there and done it and know how it works and tried to give you good advice. Comparing your player to another is just really tacky stuff, here, on a website or anywhere.
I agree you felt slighted because your son wasn't ranked. Being a junior and contacted by 29 coaches and 62 college coach views on teh site, the ranking at this time means nothing. FWIW, son received his first rating and not ranked until his junior year (as far as I know). He was pretty much on the radar already being a USA tryout, but he wasn't ranked by PG and we never felt slighted. He attended junior fall WWBA in jupiter and two PG showcases, that was it. I am not going to give you his rating or ranking as a junior or senior because it just isn't important for you or anyone to know but I can tell you it was very very good and he wasn't drafted. I also want you to know he had very good stats in HS, college but there were others with better, but it didn't stop him from getting a very good scholarship at a very good D1 program and drafted in the second round in his junior year. He still doesn't have what some may consider the BEST pro stats as a pitcher (except for his velo), so please, understand stats really don't tell a coach or a scout or an organization all there is about a player. There is so much more to it.
Someone brought up something of importance, if your son is older than many you compare him to, that is not going to work in his favor. In pro ball if you are 20 in a league where 22-24 year olds play, and keeping up (pretty even in stats) who do you think the organization is more high on? Do you honestly think the older player with the better stats is considered the better prospect?
I agree with CD, you remind me somewhat of that dad that came here complaining his son was not ranked by PG, and drew comparisons with other players (as his son was so much better in stats), shoved down our throats how many coaches called, the big programs where they were from, teh many phone calls he bragged about, etc., etc. To top it off, the worst thing he did was bad mouth a player that didn't have as good as stats as his son and drafted first round. His son didn't get the big scholarship from a CWS contender and he wasn't drafted, yet he did have very good stats. He was so p*ssed off. It just doesn't work that way and when people realize that, it makes the journey so much more pleasant.
Again, all you had to do was ask the question, without the website, without the talk of extra base hits, yada, yada, and you would have gotten an answer. The way I see this, you have drawn negative attention to your player (who I am sure is a great kid) and yourself.
Much less venom and defensiveness because he knows he made a mistake in who he addressed and the way it was done and I agree with infielddad, sounds like a lot of *** kissing at the moment, but really couldn't care less what we say here, as long as his son gets his ranking, the world will be alright.
Just some stuff from and "oldtimer".
You came out of retirement but you did the same thing that you did before you retired, which leads me to beleive that you really haven't listened to what those who have been there and done it and know how it works and tried to give you good advice. Comparing your player to another is just really tacky stuff, here, on a website or anywhere.
I agree you felt slighted because your son wasn't ranked. Being a junior and contacted by 29 coaches and 62 college coach views on teh site, the ranking at this time means nothing. FWIW, son received his first rating and not ranked until his junior year (as far as I know). He was pretty much on the radar already being a USA tryout, but he wasn't ranked by PG and we never felt slighted. He attended junior fall WWBA in jupiter and two PG showcases, that was it. I am not going to give you his rating or ranking as a junior or senior because it just isn't important for you or anyone to know but I can tell you it was very very good and he wasn't drafted. I also want you to know he had very good stats in HS, college but there were others with better, but it didn't stop him from getting a very good scholarship at a very good D1 program and drafted in the second round in his junior year. He still doesn't have what some may consider the BEST pro stats as a pitcher (except for his velo), so please, understand stats really don't tell a coach or a scout or an organization all there is about a player. There is so much more to it.
Someone brought up something of importance, if your son is older than many you compare him to, that is not going to work in his favor. In pro ball if you are 20 in a league where 22-24 year olds play, and keeping up (pretty even in stats) who do you think the organization is more high on? Do you honestly think the older player with the better stats is considered the better prospect?
I agree with CD, you remind me somewhat of that dad that came here complaining his son was not ranked by PG, and drew comparisons with other players (as his son was so much better in stats), shoved down our throats how many coaches called, the big programs where they were from, teh many phone calls he bragged about, etc., etc. To top it off, the worst thing he did was bad mouth a player that didn't have as good as stats as his son and drafted first round. His son didn't get the big scholarship from a CWS contender and he wasn't drafted, yet he did have very good stats. He was so p*ssed off. It just doesn't work that way and when people realize that, it makes the journey so much more pleasant.
Again, all you had to do was ask the question, without the website, without the talk of extra base hits, yada, yada, and you would have gotten an answer. The way I see this, you have drawn negative attention to your player (who I am sure is a great kid) and yourself.
Much less venom and defensiveness because he knows he made a mistake in who he addressed and the way it was done and I agree with infielddad, sounds like a lot of *** kissing at the moment, but really couldn't care less what we say here, as long as his son gets his ranking, the world will be alright.
Just some stuff from and "oldtimer".
The lesson about keeping your mouth shut and working to improve each day applies as much, if not more, to parents than it does to the players themselves, imo.
My son just turned 17 as a junior and is not old. In fact he is about a year behind in his physical development according to his doctors because he was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes 3 years ago and almost died before being hospitalized losing 1/3rd of his body weight and dropping to less than 100 lbs. His coaches saw him become too weak to even take batting practice and would send him home 10 minutes into it for many months and he kept trying till he could.That year he hit all singles but he since has developed the endurance to play double headers in 105 degree heat. Since he has controlled his blood sugar through discipline and excercise he's grown 12 inches and gained 90lbs in 3 years. His male cousins and relatives are mostly 6'4"-6'6" and his mom and sisters are 6'0. He's grown a half inch in the past 2 months and through about 1000 hours of workouts in the past 3 years he has regained his strength. He's had to make alot of adjustments just to be ok and is blessed to have 20/15 vision in both eyes along with perfect blood pressure.Baseball has been awsome for his health and I'm more proud that he has overcome adversity rather than turn away from it like he could have.
Apparently some people don't like comparisons but the PG national rankings are truly that. This has not been an attempt to be ranked because it is my understanding that they only rank showcase players and he hasn't attended one. One thing is sure, if you look at the 3rd basemen from California's 2012's rankings(there are 50 compared to 1 for OK) their 60 times are not faster, only a couple infield velocities are and in their baseballweb tv videos the majority do not hit the ball as hard.We are happy for all those guys and I'm sure they deserve their rankings.There are many others who do as well.
Apparently some people don't like comparisons but the PG national rankings are truly that. This has not been an attempt to be ranked because it is my understanding that they only rank showcase players and he hasn't attended one. One thing is sure, if you look at the 3rd basemen from California's 2012's rankings(there are 50 compared to 1 for OK) their 60 times are not faster, only a couple infield velocities are and in their baseballweb tv videos the majority do not hit the ball as hard.We are happy for all those guys and I'm sure they deserve their rankings.There are many others who do as well.
Nobody said that your son was old, just older than his classmates. According to your website, he turned 17 in July. Typically the cutoff for classes is September 1. He will be 19 before he goes to college. That would make him older, not old.
With that being said, given his circumstances, it is good to hear that he is healthy.
With that being said, given his circumstances, it is good to hear that he is healthy.
You are right. If you have a July 31st birhday you will be either among the youngest or the oldest. When he graduates he'll be a few months younger than this years Realmuto and 4 months older than Yelich as if that matters.Since he does well now against JUCO pitchers like Seminole State and 19U college pitchers this past summer before he turned 17 I wouldn't think his age is an issue.
standup,
We know several kids who have been very successful with diabetes. The things you speak of in the last post are more important than his statistics. Those things tell me more than his statistics.
I will readily admit that Oklahoma is a state we could do a better job with. Typically we just see the very top guys from there. Don't think we have missed any that were drafted out of high school. I'm sure there are many we might rank if we saw them all.
I'm really sorry, but I just don't remember seeing any of those PMs you mentioned sending to me. I do believe you sent them. Did I ever reply?
Feel free to email me anytime regarding your son. Please understand that I get hundreds of emails every day. It is hard to keep up with it. I respect all dads who go to bat for their kids. I just don't think you've gone about exactly the right way.
BTW, Our rankings can obviously be influenced by going to showcases, but we rank players based upon what we know about their ability, not whether or not they have attended any certain event. We have ranked players who have never attended a PG event.
People sometimes don't want to believe that, but really... If it weren't true, why would I say that? Wouldn't it be better for "business" if everyone thought they had to attend a PG event?
Anyway, I'm betting that nearly everyone here would love to see your son be as successful as possible.
Best of luck
We know several kids who have been very successful with diabetes. The things you speak of in the last post are more important than his statistics. Those things tell me more than his statistics.
I will readily admit that Oklahoma is a state we could do a better job with. Typically we just see the very top guys from there. Don't think we have missed any that were drafted out of high school. I'm sure there are many we might rank if we saw them all.
I'm really sorry, but I just don't remember seeing any of those PMs you mentioned sending to me. I do believe you sent them. Did I ever reply?
Feel free to email me anytime regarding your son. Please understand that I get hundreds of emails every day. It is hard to keep up with it. I respect all dads who go to bat for their kids. I just don't think you've gone about exactly the right way.
BTW, Our rankings can obviously be influenced by going to showcases, but we rank players based upon what we know about their ability, not whether or not they have attended any certain event. We have ranked players who have never attended a PG event.
People sometimes don't want to believe that, but really... If it weren't true, why would I say that? Wouldn't it be better for "business" if everyone thought they had to attend a PG event?
Anyway, I'm betting that nearly everyone here would love to see your son be as successful as possible.
Best of luck
You continually try to mislead. There are 53 California players in the 2012 rankings compared to 1 from OK. There are not 50 third basemen and most of those who list 3b as a position are not primarily third basemen. Neither is the kid from OK.
Who are you comparing infield velocities to? The kid in the rankings from OK has a cannon. A lot of the kids who list 3b as a position from CA have cannons. More than a couple have significantly higher infield velocities. So what? Infield velocities tend to vary quite a deal between players of equal arm strength. Some kids throwing motions don't lend themselves to throwing from the infield as well. When I see that Williams throws 88 across the infield I know he's got a great arm. I don't know how great because that may be close to his max or he may have another 8 or 10 mph in there.
If you haven't realized it there are a lot more kids playing baseball in CA than there are in OK. I doubt the ratio is 50:1 so even given the advantages CA has there are probably more 2012 kids in OK who deserve rankings. It is early. They'll get in there.
The 2011's have a total of 72 or so from CA and 12 or 13 from OK in the rankings. What that means is that more kids from OK get ranked per capita since the population of CA is more than 10 times as large as the population of OK.
This may be a shock but it is harder, not easier for the CA kids to stand out. There's just too many good players to choose from. The CA kids aren't inherently better. They tend to be a bit younger for their grade on average so that offsets the play year around advantage. There are just plain a whole lot of kids playing baseball in CA so there are more good players to choose from.
quote:if you look at the 3rd basemen from California's 2012's rankings(there are 50 compared to 1 for OK)
Who are you comparing infield velocities to? The kid in the rankings from OK has a cannon. A lot of the kids who list 3b as a position from CA have cannons. More than a couple have significantly higher infield velocities. So what? Infield velocities tend to vary quite a deal between players of equal arm strength. Some kids throwing motions don't lend themselves to throwing from the infield as well. When I see that Williams throws 88 across the infield I know he's got a great arm. I don't know how great because that may be close to his max or he may have another 8 or 10 mph in there.
If you haven't realized it there are a lot more kids playing baseball in CA than there are in OK. I doubt the ratio is 50:1 so even given the advantages CA has there are probably more 2012 kids in OK who deserve rankings. It is early. They'll get in there.
The 2011's have a total of 72 or so from CA and 12 or 13 from OK in the rankings. What that means is that more kids from OK get ranked per capita since the population of CA is more than 10 times as large as the population of OK.
This may be a shock but it is harder, not easier for the CA kids to stand out. There's just too many good players to choose from. The CA kids aren't inherently better. They tend to be a bit younger for their grade on average so that offsets the play year around advantage. There are just plain a whole lot of kids playing baseball in CA so there are more good players to choose from.
I'm glad I don't have to spend weekends watching 4 or 5 games having to dodge sitting next to this guy.
Standup, from reading this thread I just have to say you appear to be "one of those fathers".
Good luck to your son.
Standup, from reading this thread I just have to say you appear to be "one of those fathers".
Good luck to your son.
PGSTAFF
I forwarded the 2 messages to your perfectgame.org address from my sent items box. You generate alot of respect from everyone here because of your ability to communicate with kindness and sensitivity even in situations where people disagree. I know I can learn from that example,it is appreciated and people who know me also know I am a sincere guy that says what he thinks even if it is unpoular to do so. Thanks
I forwarded the 2 messages to your perfectgame.org address from my sent items box. You generate alot of respect from everyone here because of your ability to communicate with kindness and sensitivity even in situations where people disagree. I know I can learn from that example,it is appreciated and people who know me also know I am a sincere guy that says what he thinks even if it is unpoular to do so. Thanks
Thanks for the kindness fillsfan.I watched about 10 games at Jupiter and the only folks I talked to were the Marucci bat people. I bring a video camera so I don't have to talk to people like u mistake me for. Again its great people can post their fantasy misconceptions that have no basis in reality.
Christian Yelich wasn't ranked after his first showcase. He didn't get a hit, didn't look that great at the plate during the games, and he didn't show much arm strength. The kid has decent speed and he has been able to rake from day 1. One of the nicest line drive swings and most consistent ability to square up the ball I've seen. He's also a good kid.
Hi CADad
#40 ranked CA 2012 #260 Nationally runs 7.66 & 85 IF
#48 ranked CA 2012 #314 Nationally runs a 7.69 60
#46 ranked CA 2012 #301 Nationally no 60 time 78 IFy
#39 ranked is #250 Nationally is 7.21
#37 & 242 Nationally is 7.24 with 88 IF
#50 ranked CA #323 Nationally runs 7.34 & 80 IF
Why do u punish yourself?
#40 ranked CA 2012 #260 Nationally runs 7.66 & 85 IF
#48 ranked CA 2012 #314 Nationally runs a 7.69 60
#46 ranked CA 2012 #301 Nationally no 60 time 78 IFy
#39 ranked is #250 Nationally is 7.21
#37 & 242 Nationally is 7.24 with 88 IF
#50 ranked CA #323 Nationally runs 7.34 & 80 IF
Why do u punish yourself?
I appreciate the positive posts and wish you all well. Will try to be mature enough not to let negative posters drag me back in. I really cant think of anything else but to listen and learn instead of posting. I will reply to any pm's.
standup - there is a charm about you that I just can't quite put my finger on 
Seriously, I have done the same things you have done. I have looked at my son's stats and wondered why someone with lessor stats was considered a better player. Now that he is in the minor leagues, it is easier to do and yep, I still do it. We try to use it as fuel for the fire but I'll be honest, it gets old eating humble pie all the time.
I truly believe you'll be better off if you let others notice your son on their own. I see no reason to force-feed anyone. Your son's baseball abilities speak for themselves.
Sorry to hear about your son's diabetes by the way.
Seriously, I have done the same things you have done. I have looked at my son's stats and wondered why someone with lessor stats was considered a better player. Now that he is in the minor leagues, it is easier to do and yep, I still do it. We try to use it as fuel for the fire but I'll be honest, it gets old eating humble pie all the time.
I truly believe you'll be better off if you let others notice your son on their own. I see no reason to force-feed anyone. Your son's baseball abilities speak for themselves.
Sorry to hear about your son's diabetes by the way.
Type 1 diabetes is very misunderstood. My son also has T1 and is currently on a baseball scholarship at a fine division 1 school. As long as a diabetic takes care of themselves and monitors their blood sugar, there is nothing they can't do. Standup - I sent you a PM.
We are learning that rankings may not be reflective of what's actually happening with individual players in regard to colleges and the draft. The ranking might only tell some of the story.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Will try to be mature enough not to let negative posters drag me back in.
Newsflash...that comment proves you failed.
Standup, from my observations over the years one of the traits in most "one of those fathers" is that they never see it in themselves.
And if I mistake you for one, you are doing a great job of faking me out. A casual 10 minute conversation at the field would confirm or change my opinion. I'll probably never have that opportunity so I'll have to go by what you write here.
Good luck to your son.
And if I mistake you for one, you are doing a great job of faking me out. A casual 10 minute conversation at the field would confirm or change my opinion. I'll probably never have that opportunity so I'll have to go by what you write here.
Good luck to your son.
quote:Originally posted by fillsfan:
I'm glad I don't have to spend weekends watching 4 or 5 games having to dodge sitting next to this guy.
Standup, from reading this thread I just have to say you appear to be "one of those fathers".
Good luck to your son.
Guys like this drive me nuts at games, and there's no way you can convince me that someone who will do this on a national baseball website and completely disrespect PGstaff isn't going to be ten times worse in person.
I think that it is time to let this thread die. It has run it's course and Standup has taken his lumps and hopefully learned some valuable lessons from many of the posts. It has been entertainig though!
Agree ^^^ 
Put it to bed. Entertaining like a Dean Martin roast!
FYI - College baseball opening day is 104 days away!
FYI - College baseball opening day is 104 days away!
quote:Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:quote:Originally posted by fillsfan:
I'm glad I don't have to spend weekends watching 4 or 5 games having to dodge sitting next to this guy.
Standup, from reading this thread I just have to say you appear to be "one of those fathers".
Good luck to your son.
Guys like this drive me nuts at games, and there's no way you can convince me that someone who will do this on a national baseball website and completely disrespect PGstaff isn't going to be ten times worse in person.
Hey IB - long time no see!
If you refer back a page or two in this thread, I think you'll recognize the "that guy" I was referring to
No way does standup come close to "that guy" imho.
I know exactly what fillsfan refers to and it is a turnoff. My experience here and other places has been in general, the better the player, the more humble the parent. I have seen it go the other way as well but that has been my general experience.
Nope... Don't have a clue who you're talking about.
Kinda been following your son and congrats on his success! Coffee sometime?
Kinda been following your son and congrats on his success! Coffee sometime?
quote:FYI - College baseball opening day is 104 days away!
Not quite right.
There is a wonderful DIII match up in San Antonio beginning on 2/4/11. Two teams who could be in the top 25 nationally.
Yes, I will readily admit I get testy when some make it appear DI is all there is in college baseball.
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
We are learning that rankings may not be reflective of what's actually happening with individual players in regard to colleges and the draft. The ranking might only tell some of the story.
Sounds familiar, an example would be Ty Colvin, who was not even considered D1 out of HS, and was not ranked as high as others his college draft year.
The opposite have seen many top 50-75 prospects out of HS become later draft picks in college.
Rankings don't tell the whole story, just a small portion. If someone feels that this is a make or break for a player, that's so not true.
JMO.
Why do I punish myself by responding to your posts? Because I dislike it when people cherry pick stats to try and prove a point. It is very close to lying. My son is from CA and his 60 time and his velocity were better than some of those you listed. He never was and never should have been ranked that high. Get over it.
Why did any of us generate 8 pages of comments??? Because baseball season is officially over with the Giants WS win. I think we all don't know what to do with ourselves yet.
It's going to be a loooooong winter. I'm actually watching a women's s****r game on-line right now. Shows how far I've fallen.
It's going to be a loooooong winter. I'm actually watching a women's s****r game on-line right now. Shows how far I've fallen.
CaBB,
My condolences. I'm busy proving that stats don't mean much playing poker.
My condolences. I'm busy proving that stats don't mean much playing poker.
quote:Not quite right. There is a wonderful DIII match up in San Antonio beginning on 2/4/11. Two teams who could be in the top 25 nationally.
Sorry infieldad! You're 100% right, my bad. I didn't realize D3 had a different start date than D1. I just learned something. No doubt it is D3 powerhouse Trinity U, but they haven't posted their 2011 schedule. We'll knock off two weeks and call it 90 days!