At this school they require all Varsity baseball players to play on the School team they call Varsity/AAA. It is a much more competitive schedule than Spring baseball and it puts them in the position of playing travel ball teams to make them better. The HS coach does a great job.
Standup,
I went to the video. Your son looks like he can swing it. However, his stats mean nothing because there's no baseline for any of us to measure him with. He could be facing outrageous pitching and tearing it up. He could be facing garbage and tearing that up too. I understand you feel he's seeing high level guys. It's a big world out there. I've been through it twice.
Here's my suggestion: get him to one of the Perfect Game showcases - like the World Showcase in January. Put him out there against some of the best players in the nation and see what he does. That's how you will get your son ranked, since it's the clear objective you have.
I was unsure of where my younger guy stood until I took him to PG World and then to PG National. You might have all your questions answered, as I did after seeing him against the best in the country. It's eye-opening to say the least.
I have to add one thing - comparing your son's stats to any other young man, for whatever reason, is pretty well out of line. Perhaps a better way is just to post the very stats you are so proud of and invite people to take a look at the site you've set up.
MM
I went to the video. Your son looks like he can swing it. However, his stats mean nothing because there's no baseline for any of us to measure him with. He could be facing outrageous pitching and tearing it up. He could be facing garbage and tearing that up too. I understand you feel he's seeing high level guys. It's a big world out there. I've been through it twice.
Here's my suggestion: get him to one of the Perfect Game showcases - like the World Showcase in January. Put him out there against some of the best players in the nation and see what he does. That's how you will get your son ranked, since it's the clear objective you have.
I was unsure of where my younger guy stood until I took him to PG World and then to PG National. You might have all your questions answered, as I did after seeing him against the best in the country. It's eye-opening to say the least.
I have to add one thing - comparing your son's stats to any other young man, for whatever reason, is pretty well out of line. Perhaps a better way is just to post the very stats you are so proud of and invite people to take a look at the site you've set up.
MM
Standup,
Unfortunately, the closer I look at what you say, the less persuaded I get.
Like a lot of people at this site, I'm mostly familiar with the PG WWBA events and the teams that consistently show well at them. However, I know it's a big country, so I have an open mind about people and programs and events I haven't heard of. Unfortunately, when I try to verify the information you offer, your compelling narrative starts coming apart.
For example, I looked up one of the players you said your son hit against. I couldn't find him on the roster of the school you said, but I did find him listed at PG--as a MIF committed to a Juco. So I checked the JUCO's fall roster and he's not there. Thus, what you presented as experience against a D1 pitcher turns out to be experience against a MIF who may or may not be on a college roster.
So I checked another guy on your list. Eureka! He's on the roster of the school you mentioned. But, whoops, he's an infielder, not a pitcher.
So I checked another guy. Same story. He's on the JUCO roster you say, but not primarily as a pitcher and not included in the school's press release about incoming players likely to make an impact.
So I checked another guy: he's not on the roster where you say he is and I couldn't find him at PG.
So basically your list of accomplished pitchers evaporated on contact.
If you want to persuade casual non-expert observers like me, hold the stats until you can show a PG rating or another credible independent evaluation.
Unfortunately, the closer I look at what you say, the less persuaded I get.
Like a lot of people at this site, I'm mostly familiar with the PG WWBA events and the teams that consistently show well at them. However, I know it's a big country, so I have an open mind about people and programs and events I haven't heard of. Unfortunately, when I try to verify the information you offer, your compelling narrative starts coming apart.
For example, I looked up one of the players you said your son hit against. I couldn't find him on the roster of the school you said, but I did find him listed at PG--as a MIF committed to a Juco. So I checked the JUCO's fall roster and he's not there. Thus, what you presented as experience against a D1 pitcher turns out to be experience against a MIF who may or may not be on a college roster.
So I checked another guy on your list. Eureka! He's on the roster of the school you mentioned. But, whoops, he's an infielder, not a pitcher.
So I checked another guy. Same story. He's on the JUCO roster you say, but not primarily as a pitcher and not included in the school's press release about incoming players likely to make an impact.
So I checked another guy: he's not on the roster where you say he is and I couldn't find him at PG.
So basically your list of accomplished pitchers evaporated on contact.
If you want to persuade casual non-expert observers like me, hold the stats until you can show a PG rating or another credible independent evaluation.
standup,
I knew exactly what you had posted when I said your son had played JV as a sophmore. He played JV as a sophmore. Like most kids he then went on to play up with the varsity as a rising junior. What you've posted implies that he played varsity as a sophmore. Williams posted his stats as a younger sophmore playing varsity.
What do you hope to gain from this charade?
I knew exactly what you had posted when I said your son had played JV as a sophmore. He played JV as a sophmore. Like most kids he then went on to play up with the varsity as a rising junior. What you've posted implies that he played varsity as a sophmore. Williams posted his stats as a younger sophmore playing varsity.
What do you hope to gain from this charade?
Swamp Boy. Here I'll help you out.
see Caraway, Parker & Edwards Pitching in USABF WS
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...ult.asp?xFILE=Recaps
Caraway Murray State
http://www.mscok.edu/athletics/babroster11.html
Daniel Edwards OSU
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_...4&requesttimeout=500
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...sp?xFILE=College_Pro
Dayne Parker WSU
http://www.goshockers.com/Spor..._ID=7500&SPSID=61171
Clayton Blackburn OU
http://blog.newsok.com/highsch...commits-to-oklahoma/
See Legion WS Champion Outlaws Pitchers Roberts Realmuto & Head
http://post170.com/History/201...id/2797/Default.aspx
Clark Roberts Ccowley County
http://www.cowleytigers.com/baseball/baseroster.html
See Kellen Smith Labette CC
http://www.labette.edu/dept/at.../baseball/roster.htm
See Nick Fowble NEOSHO
http://www.neosho.edu/Athletic...ball/TeamRoster.aspx
see Caraway, Parker & Edwards Pitching in USABF WS
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...ult.asp?xFILE=Recaps
Caraway Murray State
http://www.mscok.edu/athletics/babroster11.html
Daniel Edwards OSU
http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_...4&requesttimeout=500
http://www.elkcitytravelers.co...sp?xFILE=College_Pro
Dayne Parker WSU
http://www.goshockers.com/Spor..._ID=7500&SPSID=61171
Clayton Blackburn OU
http://blog.newsok.com/highsch...commits-to-oklahoma/
See Legion WS Champion Outlaws Pitchers Roberts Realmuto & Head
http://post170.com/History/201...id/2797/Default.aspx
Clark Roberts Ccowley County
http://www.cowleytigers.com/baseball/baseroster.html
See Kellen Smith Labette CC
http://www.labette.edu/dept/at.../baseball/roster.htm
See Nick Fowble NEOSHO
http://www.neosho.edu/Athletic...ball/TeamRoster.aspx
CADad
Are you OK? Why do u comment on what u have not read or seen?
"Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal?"
We are comparing 100 Varsity Plate appearances against elite pitchers that have already pitched in college
and or represent all-star teams of Legion Majors 19U that are college committed pitchers to anothers players AB's against ordinary HS varsity pitchers.It would be as if your HS team played the Southern California Aangels or San Diego Show. I said at the onset he's wonderful. Charade? Are you kidding me?
"What do you hope to gain from this charade"
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
Are you OK? Why do u comment on what u have not read or seen?
"Would you like to compare the pitching in your son's conference to our HS conference here in SoCal?"
We are comparing 100 Varsity Plate appearances against elite pitchers that have already pitched in college
and or represent all-star teams of Legion Majors 19U that are college committed pitchers to anothers players AB's against ordinary HS varsity pitchers.It would be as if your HS team played the Southern California Aangels or San Diego Show. I said at the onset he's wonderful. Charade? Are you kidding me?
"What do you hope to gain from this charade"
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
Your son has exactly 0 varsity plate appearances to date. He like many others may have played against some top competition in the summer.
I'm sorry but you have nothing out there that compares with the Marmonte League.
I'm sorry but you have nothing out there that compares with the Marmonte League.
I also believe the comparison info should be removed from your recruiting materials. Many coaches will see your data as currently presented and conclude that someday they might recieve an e-mail from you complaining that your son deserves to play more along with an analysis of the players he should be ahead of. The coaches may never look at the other videos of your son playing.
Honestly speaking none of the schools that recruited my son ever asked for his stats and we never offered them. I think you are waging an unecesary battle defending and promoting your son's stats.
Let his play speak for itself.
Good luck.
Honestly speaking none of the schools that recruited my son ever asked for his stats and we never offered them. I think you are waging an unecesary battle defending and promoting your son's stats.
Let his play speak for itself.
Good luck.
You can post all the stats you want to post. I do find it simply amazing you know the names and schools attended by the pitchers your son has faced in summer baseball. It just shows I believe that you are extremely hung up on stats. I once coached a kid in summer baseball who's dad carried a stop watch, radar gun and clip board with him to every game. He would record his sons pop times, every one of them. He would record the pitchers velo when his son was hitting. He had an entire book of stats on his son. None of it mattered one bit as far as recruiting.
Your son may indeed by a stud. Again, I hope he is. But the stats or the pitchers he has hit off of etc is not going to matter. The data YOU as the parent have on him in regards to stats etc will not matter to college coaches or professional scouts. What they see with their eyes is what is going to matter. So simply get him in front of the decision makers and you will have all the answers you need. He just played at Jupiter so that should get you some contacts if he showed what he needs to show. Continue to get him in front of the people that matter and everything will clear up in due time.
When a parent beats the drum of their own child it carries no weight to those that matter. When someone else does that who has credibility in the decision makers eyes it carries weight. When the decision makers start beating his drum you will know it and so will he. Good luck
Your son may indeed by a stud. Again, I hope he is. But the stats or the pitchers he has hit off of etc is not going to matter. The data YOU as the parent have on him in regards to stats etc will not matter to college coaches or professional scouts. What they see with their eyes is what is going to matter. So simply get him in front of the decision makers and you will have all the answers you need. He just played at Jupiter so that should get you some contacts if he showed what he needs to show. Continue to get him in front of the people that matter and everything will clear up in due time.
When a parent beats the drum of their own child it carries no weight to those that matter. When someone else does that who has credibility in the decision makers eyes it carries weight. When the decision makers start beating his drum you will know it and so will he. Good luck
Standup,
Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to drag the names of these innocent bystanders into this discussion by publicly dissecting your list.
The readers of this site will judge for themselves whether my observations are fair.
Here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to drag the names of these innocent bystanders into this discussion by publicly dissecting your list.
The readers of this site will judge for themselves whether my observations are fair.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge PG Staff. Next time I send a pm it would be nice to avoid
"I don't understand why you chose this particular kid to compare with"
Chosen only because of top ranking. Could have been a comparison of 4 local area code players from one HS team who combined don't have as many varsity extra-base hits as sourced by Max preps this year. However they are good pitchers and though my son's team beat them twice this year with his 8 RBI's in two games helping out, i think they are wonderful players.
"It's one thing to play against top competition a few times and playing against it most all the time.""Can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."He is from Southern California and plays for a team that competes against the very best regularly." "There's probably a kid somewhere in a small town in Iowa that has much better stats than both them boys." "Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
In concept all of this is true. But in this specific case there is little doubt that the pitching at Decker Omaha and Senior Legion 19U and Oklahoma State Championships is far more competitive than average California HS pitching. I lived there for 25 years. A more realistic comparison would be the other players performance for the San Digo show which are not published.
"Definitely a good baseball state, but can't compare to Southern California when it comes to competition."
2010 USABF World Series Champion Oklahoma Travelers outscored California teams 87-27 in 10 games during that tournament.
2010 Legion World Series Champions Oklahoma Outlaws outscored all teams 102-37 in 12 games during that tournament. Combined National Championship Tournament record is 21-2 with 132 K's. Wherever your from, if you hit well against these teams you are a hitter.
As For CPLZ please get out your glasses and re-read the post before you tyrade calling people dirtball because you have difficulty with context. I was referring specifically to TRhit & JH who label themselves as "old timers".If you are going to make wrong assumptions and mis-quotes about people you really ought to tell your wife. Maybe she cares. Just remember every one in the baseball world has gotten along fine without you as it shall continue.
standup,
Interestingly enough, I didn't notice this post originally, I guess I skimmed through the thread too quickly. It's true, The Oklahoma Travelers have a very good program. They came out to San Diego for the USABF World Series and won the tournament. I know, because my kid threw 5 innings against the Travelers in a 5-1 loss. He gave up four runs, and 5 hits in his appearance, and struckout eight. I remember the game well because there were two players on the Travelers that owned my son in that game. One of the players (I believe Texas A&M commit) hit two solo HR's off bsbl jr. What you fail to realize is that the SD SHOW was playing with nine players in that game. We had several kids that were playing out of position all over the field. Also, there was another 18u Wood Bat Tournament going on in Southern California that week, , and we had a team entered in that tournament as well. So basically we were playing as a Split Squad. As far as outscoring the California teams by such a wide margin? Consider that ABD, SGV Arsenal, Nor Cal, and several other high profile Calif teams were not in the USABF Series. We played in it because it was in our backyard, but we were a depleted roster. Take nothing away from the Travelers, they're good, but if we had our full contingency of players and the other Calif teams were entered, things would have been much different, JMO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I had read that your boy was part of the Travelers program? Maybe I misunderstood? I have to agree with you, Oklahoma has outstanding baseball and some very good players...however, not quite as deep as the talent pool here in California!
Wow, you guys still at it...This could be an All Nighter...When PG 2012 State rankings comes out, it will be interesting.
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
Ryanrod,
I'm done, I originally missed his post regarding the California teams...and since my kid was involved I chimed in. I usually prefer to stay out of these disagreements, I'd much rather debate in person...my fingers can't handle all this typing!
I'm done, I originally missed his post regarding the California teams...and since my kid was involved I chimed in. I usually prefer to stay out of these disagreements, I'd much rather debate in person...my fingers can't handle all this typing!
quote:Originally posted by Ryanrod23:
Wow, you guys still at it...This could be an All Nighter...When PG 2012 State rankings comes out, it will be interesting.
2011 PG State Rankings are out..
bsbl247..Good Luck to Junior on the 10th!
Thank you.
Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I'm leaving the cyber baseball world and appreciate the awsome people on this board.If you have any questions you can re-read my posts. The thing I love most about baseball is the people involved. I truly hope you all have peace and happiness. God bless you and keep you safe.
standup,
Sorry if you think I was slighting baseball in your area. We had two Oklahoma HS pitchers on the Aflac team this year and they are both ranked very high in the 2011 class. We know of a few more current Oklahoma HS pitchers who are outstanding. All of those pitchers played on summer club teams rather than, or in addition to, legion or HS ball. Doesn't necessarily make them better, just much more visible.
I will go out on a limb and say the pitchers I'm talking about are considered the top HS age pitchers in Oklahoma by the entire scouting community.
That said the depth of talent in Southern California is well recognized every year in the MLB draft. The number of draft picks and often very early draft picks is well documented. There's not much to argue about when it comes to that.
Even at that, we don't have (that other player) ranked so high because of what he did in high school. He has created quite a buzz in the scouting community by playing coast to coast against the best possible competition in the country with wood bats. And he has been an absolute animal at those events.
No one is saying your son isn't deserving of more recognition. It's always possible he could be one of the best. I think it's the approach that people disagree with. As far as rankings, we like to think we are the best. However, I assure you that we have been wrong many times and we will be wrong many more times. Everyone who evaluates talent makes mistakes and will admit it, that includes college coaches and MLB scouting departments.
Also I think you mentioned something about a PM. Sorry if I didn't remember, I really get lots of those and can't keep up with all of them.
I understand that you mentioned the other kid as being great while doing the comparison. You did not cut him down at all or I'd be the first to get POed. You were simply trying to describe your sons ability. Personally I think that is the wrong approach. Then again remember that I have been wrong many times before. I also think you might be getting a bit too defensive here, but that too is your decision. Heck I get that way myself at times.
Stick around and you will find lots of good people, who post here, pulling for your son. Even those who might disagree with you now. Lots of people who have already gone through what you are experiencing and will experience. They understand how stressful these things can be at times.
We hear from parents arguing about rankings and grades all the time. Sometimes they have legitimate points. But we have seen a lot... We have seen great scouts who can pick out talent in a heartbeat, but they can't evaluate their own son accurately. We know who a parents favorite player is. We also tell players to never be satisfied with what they have accomplished. Satisfaction is a baseball players biggest enemy! Maybe it's a parents worst enemy as well.
Most important is to let rankings do whatever they do. Maybe the right approach is to go about proving them wrong. I love to see kids prove us wrong, it's not an insult at all because we know we will be wrong or miss kids at times.
Best of luck to your son and to you too.
Sorry if you think I was slighting baseball in your area. We had two Oklahoma HS pitchers on the Aflac team this year and they are both ranked very high in the 2011 class. We know of a few more current Oklahoma HS pitchers who are outstanding. All of those pitchers played on summer club teams rather than, or in addition to, legion or HS ball. Doesn't necessarily make them better, just much more visible.
I will go out on a limb and say the pitchers I'm talking about are considered the top HS age pitchers in Oklahoma by the entire scouting community.
That said the depth of talent in Southern California is well recognized every year in the MLB draft. The number of draft picks and often very early draft picks is well documented. There's not much to argue about when it comes to that.
Even at that, we don't have (that other player) ranked so high because of what he did in high school. He has created quite a buzz in the scouting community by playing coast to coast against the best possible competition in the country with wood bats. And he has been an absolute animal at those events.
No one is saying your son isn't deserving of more recognition. It's always possible he could be one of the best. I think it's the approach that people disagree with. As far as rankings, we like to think we are the best. However, I assure you that we have been wrong many times and we will be wrong many more times. Everyone who evaluates talent makes mistakes and will admit it, that includes college coaches and MLB scouting departments.
Also I think you mentioned something about a PM. Sorry if I didn't remember, I really get lots of those and can't keep up with all of them.
I understand that you mentioned the other kid as being great while doing the comparison. You did not cut him down at all or I'd be the first to get POed. You were simply trying to describe your sons ability. Personally I think that is the wrong approach. Then again remember that I have been wrong many times before. I also think you might be getting a bit too defensive here, but that too is your decision. Heck I get that way myself at times.
Stick around and you will find lots of good people, who post here, pulling for your son. Even those who might disagree with you now. Lots of people who have already gone through what you are experiencing and will experience. They understand how stressful these things can be at times.
We hear from parents arguing about rankings and grades all the time. Sometimes they have legitimate points. But we have seen a lot... We have seen great scouts who can pick out talent in a heartbeat, but they can't evaluate their own son accurately. We know who a parents favorite player is. We also tell players to never be satisfied with what they have accomplished. Satisfaction is a baseball players biggest enemy! Maybe it's a parents worst enemy as well.
Most important is to let rankings do whatever they do. Maybe the right approach is to go about proving them wrong. I love to see kids prove us wrong, it's not an insult at all because we know we will be wrong or miss kids at times.
Best of luck to your son and to you too.
quote:Originally posted by standup:
Again you read the post from Swampboy whose brain is the only thing that evaporated. He couldn't find his from page 8 so I have to assist another pundit into the light by providing links to college rosters.Every pitcher I mentioned is as represented. Have you ever heard of the USABF?
In Swampboys response to you, nowhere was he personally insulting the way you seem to respond to anyone who doesn't agree with you.
What is this penchant you have to retaliating like an 11 year old to adult conversation?
I have a tip for you. If you wouldn't say something face to face to the person you are speaking to, don't say it on a message board either. You are acting like a spoiled brat, who, when he doesn't get people to agree with him, lashes out in anger with insults and derision.
Lets just hope the kid is humble.
I have read the entire thread. I admit that I am new to this site. But what I have read is a bit disheartening. Although standup jr. already has interest from D1 schools, Standup is complaining that jr. is not ranked??? Really??? Thousands of kids would kill just to be noticed by ANY school (DIII NAIA, JUCO, whatever). Who gives a flying you know what whether the kid is ranked. He's clearly a very good player (based on what I read) and apparently will have no problem whatsoever finding a place somewhere, likely D1. IMHO, standup should stop worrying about rankings (even if standup is correct in his/her views) and just be extremely happy with jr's obvious talent and success. A ranking a ballplayer does not make.