Elbow pain

Well, mmac, we needed something to keep things going until scrimmages start.

Glad to hear that things look good. Sounds like you & your son are doing the right things.

Hit&Run,

I have a degree in Management Science and an MBA, and have never taking a medical course, although I watched ER a couple times, so my advice to you is to bench press 57.5 pounds 2.5 times while stretching your achilles and drinking exactly 6.28 ounces of H2O. Then unplug the computer and the pronation will subside along the keyboard. You should see steam that forms a question mark and hear a voice telling you that you're OK now. I'm making a video of this in my yard, after I rake it.

Chris

I visited your site--it still tells me nothing regarding your baseball knowledge, nothing at all

I think you should keep your advice to yourself because it would be better for all concerned and perhaps you want to get your two sons a real coach

I cannot believe anyone would give out advice on elbow pain without being an expert in the field.

I just got an email from a coach here in Ontario that has a player that (because bone chips have torn his elbow up so much) may have to get his elbow REPLACED!!! 15 years old and he is he is finished as a ball player.

This is a result of misdiagnosis from whom ever he told that his elbow hurt.

Absolutely tragic...

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I visited your site--it still tells me nothing regarding your baseball knowledge, nothing at all

What exactly do you want to know?

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I just got an email from a coach here in Ontario that has a player that (because bone chips have torn his elbow up so much) may have to get his elbow REPLACED!!! 15 years old and he is he is finished as a ball player. This is a result of misdiagnosis from whom ever he told that his elbow hurt. Absolutely tragic...

I agree it's tragic. Unfortunately, it also reflects that lack of knowledge that exists among both coaches and MDs about what to do to prevent these injuries.

Elbow chips are caused by bones slamming together. In this case, while you can't know exactly what happened without knowing where the bone chips were found, the most likely cause of the problem is the tip of the Olecranon (the elbow end of the Ulna bone) slamming into its fossa in the Humerus (upper arm bone).

- Illustration of the Ulna

This is generally caused by the rapid extension of the elbow that occurs as the pitching arm is accelerated. As the rate at which the shoulders turn starts to decrease, the pitching forearm rapidly flies out 90 or more degrees. Unfortunately, the rate at which the forearm flies out can exceed what the muscles of the arm (especially the Brachialis) can handle, which causes the bones to slam together as the elbow extends to the limit of its stops (and sometimes beyond in which case you get a hyperextension). This can be worsened if the forearm is supinated at the moment the elbow reaches the limit of its extension.

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I talked to my son's doctor last night and he said the elbow is hyperextended, not serious.

Did the hyperextension happen when throwing or was it due to something unrelated (e.g. a fall)? If the hyperextension was related to throwing, then it could reveal a problem with the underlying ligaments (e.g. looming need for Tommy John surgery).

With any hyperextension injury you have to be careful because some damage could have been done to the ligaments (whose primary purpose is to maintain the integrity of joints and prevent hyperextensions from happening). This a big deal because, unlike muscles which the body can repair in days, it can take the body months or even years to fix ligaments and tendons.

Sometimes the only thing that works is to shut the player down for the year.

CC,

Avoid squirrels, chocolate candy bar factories and hardware stores or anywhere someone could be looking for another nut.

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Avoid squirrels, chocolate candy bar factories and hardware stores or anywhere someone could be looking for another nut.

I would love to know what problems you have with my description of the anatomy of the elbow or what happens as the ball is being thrown.

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Avoid squirrels, chocolate candy bar factories and hardware stores or anywhere someone could be looking for another nut.

Here's a simple question.

What is the angle (degree of extension) of the elbow at the moment a major league pitcher releases the ball?

A. 90 degrees (bent)
B. 180 degrees (fully extended)

The fact that you're thoroughly and completely unqualified jumps into mind first.

What part of the elbow is in pain and in what part of the throwing motion does it hurt? It could be forearm tightness or inflammation of the ulnar ligament. Running and cardio will promote more blood flowing to that region of the body due to longer raised heartrate level. A rice bucket exercise program would be a good idea, possibly. Take a normal size bucket from Home Depot or wherever and fill it about 75% with rice....put a baseball in the bucket, grip the ball and go through light pitching motions with the wrist and forearm. Take the ball out and dig the fingers in trying to get to the bottom...opening and closing the hand. Proper warming up and stretching prior to throwing workouts is something I'd suggest as well. Hope that gives you some help...anything else, post back to me. Thanks

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The fact that you're thoroughly and completely unqualified jumps into mind first.

Fine, but what's wrong with what I am saying?

If you don't understand what I am saying, then who are you to judge whether I am qualified to say it or not and whether it makes any sense?

I completely understand what you say. I also understand that what you say usually does not match the situation being discussed.

It's easy to judge someone who lacks every possible qualification to give summaries, prescriptions and evaluations. If I hear someone's hurt, I recommend seeing a doctor, because I lack the education in that area to offer medical advice or rehabilitation treatment.

I read these boards to learn and sometimes chime in. Most people here are generous and knowledgable. You are the anthisis of the majority here.

I just want people to know that you lack the background to purport yourself as a pitching coach. You try and mislead with cuts and pastes and SAT words. Lunch hours on the internet cannot replace real education and experience, of which you have neither in the baseball arena.

Just my opinion on you. And I'm not alone.

My son had an inflamed Ulnar and there was no pain. He said the elbow felt tight but didn't hurt. Took him to the doctor who is a specialist on pitchers. He checked the elow for damage and said it was in geat shape. Told him to keep throwing. The tightness dissapeared in a week or 2.
The stiffness was causing him to throw differently but once he knew it would be fine he was back to form.
Injury was a result of his arm cooling down on a freezing day after his team went on an offensive rampage in the 4th inning.
Chris anyone can read articles and delude themselves into believing they understand everything and therefore they are competent to give advice on pitching.
I am not sure if you are the researcher or the lab rat. You definitly should stay in the lab.

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You try and mislead with cuts and pastes and SAT words.

Exactly what is misleading about what I say?

Your deception is that you are unqualified to present the information as you do. You are Cliff the Postman from Cheers pertaining to baseball.

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Your deception is that you are unqualified to present the information as you do.

By definition, how can I be unqualified to present the information if it's not wrong? If what I say is correct?

Isn't the best test of whether someone is qualified (or not) to discuss something whether they're right (or not)?

Not having a degree and/or formal training doesn't make what someone says wrong any more than having a degree and/or formal training makes it right.

It all comes down to whether what they say is correct (or not).

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Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
The truth is Chris that all pitchers are subject to injury even with good mechanics. Good mechanics and proper conditioning help to reduce the risk.

100% agree..... That's why looking for pitchers with injuries, then trying to find a specific cause in mechanics is guesswork.Players get hurt in many ways...many of which do not relate to some mechanical flaw (Some do). Ken Griffey Jr.keeps pulling/tearing his hamstring....does not mean he needs advice on how to run. He may have made one mis-step that he is still paying for. Same with pitchers....they make make one individual movement (could be on the field, could be in the shower ?) that injures them that no amount of clip searching will ever identify.

I've been coaching youth baseball for years...Never had, or seen, one longterm arm injury. That does not mean we don't have an occasional tired arm. What do we do with it? REST IT. I have seen a correlation between sore arms and when the other team's best hitter is coming up with guys on base... maybe we should get rid of him?

You've become tiresome. You're exposed now. It's all good.

on the topic of elbow pain, I started feeling very mild pain "inside" my elbow, but it has lasted for a couple of days. Any ideas as to if it could be serious and/or what it could be?

i have an elbow problem as well it's not that serious when i shadow pitch i feel a tingle in the middle of my elbow not the back the front ot the elbow, this maybe because i also play basket ball and in basetball while shooting you do have to push hard with your elbow it does not hurt just tingles, any thoughts?

WOW! How did I miss all the fun on this thread today

Glad the poster's son that predicated the thread is OK!

For whatever its worth, pain is a sign like the dummy lamps in your car, go get it checked out, could be nothing, could be something to address right away. It's great to get advice from friends and the like, but something as important as your son's elbow or rotator cuff should be diagnosed by a MD, just my opinion.

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on the topic of elbow pain, I started feeling very mild pain "inside" my elbow, but it has lasted for a couple of days. Any ideas as to if it could be serious and/or what it could be?

Pain is never good.

Have you seen a doctor? If not you should.

How old are you? Where is the pain relative to the bony bump on the inside of your elbow.

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i have an elbow problem as well it's not that serious when i shadow pitch i feel a tingle in the middle of my elbow not the back the front ot the elbow, this maybe because i also play basket ball and in basetball while shooting you do have to push hard with your elbow it does not hurt just tingles, any thoughts?

Have you seen a doctor? If not you should.

How old are you?

It sounds like you could be irritating one of the nerves that runs through the elbow.

i have not seen a doctor and i am 15

What do you think about this RHP?

Notice closed foot on toe-touch?

Would like to send a few video segs of this RHP to Zig Z. for DNA Motion Analysis.

Believe PG does this type of thing.

Shep

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i have not seen a doctor and i am 15

This could be a sign of a problem inside your elbow.

It could be caused by a mechanical problem.

When throwing or pitching, do you show the ball to Center Field?

Consultant

You have a PM sir.

Shep

what to you mean by center-field if you mean the when i'm in the power triangle when my feet have landed i put the ball in between 3rd and short.

I recently finished two months of physical therapy due to elbow pain over the summer. The pain was from muscle strain, and the therapists had me doing exercises for my upper back. With the overextendedness, he should go see an orthopedic doctor, let him further examine his elbow.

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I recently finished two months of physical therapy due to elbow pain over the summer. The pain was from muscle strain, and the therapists had me doing exercises for my upper back.

Just curious. Do you know why they had you do upper back exercises if you had elbow pain?

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what to you mean by center-field if you mean the when i'm in the power triangle when my feet have landed i put the ball in between 3rd and short.

You might want to consider a more neutral hand position if it takes some conscious effort for you to do this. Have your palm facing more toward 3B.

I would saty clear of weighted baseballs.

They do not help performance and can place a great deal of strain on the shoulder and elbow joint.

They will certainly change mechanics, obviously the last thing anybody wants.

Hard to comment specifically on your son's elbow without seeing it and speaking with his doc, but I can tell you weighted baseballs are an injury waiting to happen.

I don't care what the marketing says.

Upper back muscles and forearms/elbows are closely related.

Typically when the forearms ar engaged the uppwer backis as well.

Try this right now...stick your hand straight out in front of you with a closed fist. Now slowly open and close your hand..try tp open as wide as possible. If you pay close attention you will feel the upper back muscles of the same side working slightly.

So the PT had his do upper back muscles to help the rehab of the entire chain.

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Upper back muscles and forearms/elbows are closely related.

Well...

Yes, the Long Head Of The Biceps Tendon does insert into the upper arm.

However, the muscles of the upper back are used to decelerate the arm. Elbow injuries occur while the arm is accelerating, not while it is decelerating.

Jon Doyle:

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I would saty clear of weighted baseballs.

They do not help performance and can place a great deal of strain on the shoulder and elbow joint.

_______________________

In terms of the potential problems you note, is there any difference between throwing a weighted baseball and throwing a regular baseball while wearing one of those weighted gloves on your throwing hand (the kind you insert small lead weights into)?

Thanks.

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Originally posted by Coach Chris:

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Upper back muscles and forearms/elbows are closely related.

Well...

Yes, the Long Head Of The Biceps Tendon does insert into the upper arm.

Chris please stop with the anatomy observations, your wrong again. Although the longhead of the biceps tendon does have a connection close to the upper arm unfortunatly being close is not good enough, two actually its insertion point is in the radias bone of the forearm. It originates from the supragleniod tubercle of the scapula. It also has a superior/posterior connection to the glenoid labrum. It does course over the head of the humerus on its way to its insertion point. at least you were close huh!

However, the muscles of the upper back are used to decelerate the arm. Elbow injuries occur while the arm is accelerating, not while it is decelerating.

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Chris please stop with the anatomy observations, your wrong again...It does course over the head of the humerus on its way to its insertion point. at least you were close huh!

If you want to get technical, here is the anatomy...

- Biceps Muscle - Gray's Anatomy

The point is that, while the biceps does insert into the elbow and shoulder/upper arm structure, it is rarely involved in elbow problems. More often, when it comes to a muscle problem in the elbow, it's at the attachment of the Brachialis at the Coronoid Process.

All of this is only superficially related to the back (via the scapula).