I would much rather see parents that did things with their kids than parents whe are so busy with their own lives they don't have time for their kids.
I would much rather see kids with high self esteem than no self esteem.
I would much rather see kids playing baseball, any baseball than sitting in front of an xbox , computer screen , staring at their high tech cell phone, etc etc - for hours and hours every day.
I would much rather see kids with a dream than no dream at all.
I would much rather see parents who want to help their child realize a dream than squash them.
Are there parents who go overboard at an early age? Of course. Are there parents who are so busy with their career's, dinner parties, social events, affairs, etc etc - that the kids are simply left on their own to fend for themselves? Yes
The fact is I would be a much better parent today than I was at 27 when my first son was born. I didn't have any experience at it though. I wanted to do more than my parents could do for me. I wanted to give my kids opportunities that I was not allowed to have or my parents could afford to give. I got my first glove from the rack at Sears. My sons first glove was a heart of the hide and cost 150 bucks. Why? Because I could never have one. Because I wanted to give my kid the very best I could give him. Why? Because I love my kids and I want to give them the very best I can afford to give them. And I am not ashamed of that. I am very proud of that. Proud of the fact that I took the time to put them first and help them in any way I could to reach their goals and their dreams as long as they were willing to work to reach them.
Some people spend thousands of dollars on ATV's, Boats, Jet Skis, Vacations, Clothes, etc etc. We spend thousands of dollars on hitting lessons, pitching lessons, gloves, bats, tourney's, teams, uniforms. While we wear the same clothes. Don't take that vacation as often. Drive the same old truck. Whats the difference? Its about them. Whild Dad and his buddies are on the boat on Sunday morning throwing back a few cold ones and shooting the breeze the family is at home. When were at the ball field the family is together.
While all my friends and buddies were hanging out together, going on hunting trips, going on golfing trips to Myrtle, I was with my kids. Somewhere on a ball field. And so were and are many of you if not all of you. The best times of all were sitting on the tail gate of an F-150 after a hot day on the ball field laughing and joking and getting to know each other.
Yes people get crazy sometimes. Yes people go over board sometimes. Yes people can get a little out there sometimes. But if someone is going to go overboard and get a little nuts about something I would much rather see them do it with their kids and for their kids than for themselves.
Parents learn in all of this over time. They mellow out as the child goes through the process. They learn. They look back and they realize they went a little crazy. But they never regret the time they spent with their child. And they never regret the relationship they have built with their child. And believe me the child never forgets who was there and who was not there. And who took the time to help them and be there for them. Crazy or not.
Maybe if more parents got a little crazy over their kids when they were young we wouldn't have so many problems with some of these kids when they were older?
Every one of us have done some things when we look back we say "What the hel was I thinking?" But I bet none of us regret the fact we were there. And none of us regret the fact we cared enough to be there for them. You see my kids knew I gave up on that new suit for that new bat. They new that flight to the AAU national in Burnsville Minn and that motel would mean I would have to drive that old truck a few more years. And they new I would rather do that with them and pass on those things and I am sure they know why. Because I love them and nothing gives you more joy than seeing your children chase their dream. So maybe just maybe when my grandkids are ready for a dream my kids will do for their kids what I did for mine. If not Grand Dad will.
So go ahead and make fun of people. I could do the same thing. But I won't because its not funny to see kids go through their entire baseball career and never have a Dad show up. Be dropped off at practice while the other parents are sitting and watching and offering encouragement or just bringing drinks and snacks. Or not having time to throw in the yard because your too tired after work. Or no you can't play on that team because our weekends are for the family. "Or for me to do my thing."
I could go on forever on this topic. I know that 8 year old travel teams is crazy. But not nearly as crazy as sitting on your a** throwing down a few cold ones and watching the ball game instead of watching your own son play a ball game.
I kept thinking as I was reading that "Did his son get cut from the 8 year old travel team tryouts?" Who knows.
.
One more in a long list of Gems from the master...
44
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One more in a long list of Gems from the master...
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quote:Originally posted by observer44:
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One more in a long list of Gems from the master...
.
You can say that again.
Great Stuff Coach May! 
quote:Originally posted by dw8man:quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
In years gone by, and when baseball wasn't as popular...
Really, baseball is more popular now?
To put words into your mouth, it seems like you are saying that paying $1000.00+ a season to drive ones kids all over the place to play basically the same level of competition they played "in the olden days" has magically made baseball more popular.
Good post, actually it is less popular than it was years ago, baseball has too much competition these days, even with all the exposure.
Typical thinking of some of todays folks, that the kids of today play a much better game of baseball than the kids did in "olden days". Is it because they spend much more money the feel they are getting a better deal?
I don't believe that the emergence of today's travelball version is due to baseball being more popular, but rather the lure of the scholarship $$$ or bonus dollars that it can bring to players. The rising costs of college has not helped, parents feel that they have to spend lots and lots of money to get their children scholarships in any sport.
Baseball is baseball, I have seen kids play all of their lives but don't get past HS, and seen kids pick up a ball halfway through HS and get to college before the one playing travel since 8.
I don't agree with everything said here. We must have been bad parents, we weren't always at games, sometimes we were out working so that we could pay for those games. Sometimes son had to go away with the coach (as did other kids) because we had to work and save for college, instead of relying on our 401K or the equity in the house to pay for it. We taught son that hard work in the classroom and on the field would get you closer to your goal and the gifts that you were born with came secondary.
He also worked in HS to help pay for the little things so we could pay for those tournies, travel, camp, etc. that was really much more important than it was at 8,9,10 (it was expensive back in HS then too, everything is relative).
I've been thinking about this topic since it was first posted. I thought of many of the things already said...to which I agree and disagree. In my head, I've been writing my own response.
Then along comes Coach May's post.
I got nothing else!
Then along comes Coach May's post.
I got nothing else!
quote:Originally posted by Coach_May:
I would much rather see parents that did things with their kids than parents whe are so busy with their own lives they don't have time for their kids.
I would much rather see kids with high self esteem than no self esteem.
I would much rather see kids playing baseball, any baseball than sitting in front of an xbox , computer screen , staring at their high tech cell phone, etc etc - for hours and hours every day.
I would much rather see kids with a dream than no dream at all.
I would much rather see parents who want to help their child realize a dream than squash them.
Are there parents who go overboard at an early age? Of course. Are there parents who are so busy with their career's, dinner parties, social events, affairs, etc etc - that the kids are simply left on their own to fend for themselves? Yes
The fact is I would be a much better parent today than I was at 27 when my first son was born. I didn't have any experience at it though. I wanted to do more than my parents could do for me. I wanted to give my kids opportunities that I was not allowed to have or my parents could afford to give. I got my first glove from the rack at Sears. My sons first glove was a heart of the hide and cost 150 bucks. Why? Because I could never have one. Because I wanted to give my kid the very best I could give him. Why? Because I love my kids and I want to give them the very best I can afford to give them. And I am not ashamed of that. I am very proud of that. Proud of the fact that I took the time to put them first and help them in any way I could to reach their goals and their dreams as long as they were willing to work to reach them.
Some people spend thousands of dollars on ATV's, Boats, Jet Skis, Vacations, Clothes, etc etc. We spend thousands of dollars on hitting lessons, pitching lessons, gloves, bats, tourney's, teams, uniforms. While we wear the same clothes. Don't take that vacation as often. Drive the same old truck. Whats the difference? Its about them. Whild Dad and his buddies are on the boat on Sunday morning throwing back a few cold ones and shooting the breeze the family is at home. When were at the ball field the family is together.
While all my friends and buddies were hanging out together, going on hunting trips, going on golfing trips to Myrtle, I was with my kids. Somewhere on a ball field. And so were and are many of you if not all of you. The best times of all were sitting on the tail gate of an F-150 after a hot day on the ball field laughing and joking and getting to know each other.
Yes people get crazy sometimes. Yes people go over board sometimes. Yes people can get a little out there sometimes. But if someone is going to go overboard and get a little nuts about something I would much rather see them do it with their kids and for their kids than for themselves.
Parents learn in all of this over time. They mellow out as the child goes through the process. They learn. They look back and they realize they went a little crazy. But they never regret the time they spent with their child. And they never regret the relationship they have built with their child. And believe me the child never forgets who was there and who was not there. And who took the time to help them and be there for them. Crazy or not.
Maybe if more parents got a little crazy over their kids when they were young we wouldn't have so many problems with some of these kids when they were older?
Every one of us have done some things when we look back we say "What the hel was I thinking?" But I bet none of us regret the fact we were there. And none of us regret the fact we cared enough to be there for them. You see my kids knew I gave up on that new suit for that new bat. They new that flight to the AAU national in Burnsville Minn and that motel would mean I would have to drive that old truck a few more years. And they new I would rather do that with them and pass on those things and I am sure they know why. Because I love them and nothing gives you more joy than seeing your children chase their dream. So maybe just maybe when my grandkids are ready for a dream my kids will do for their kids what I did for mine. If not Grand Dad will.
So go ahead and make fun of people. I could do the same thing. But I won't because its not funny to see kids go through their entire baseball career and never have a Dad show up. Be dropped off at practice while the other parents are sitting and watching and offering encouragement or just bringing drinks and snacks. Or not having time to throw in the yard because your too tired after work. Or no you can't play on that team because our weekends are for the family. "Or for me to do my thing."
I could go on forever on this topic. I know that 8 year old travel teams is crazy. But not nearly as crazy as sitting on your a** throwing down a few cold ones and watching the ball game instead of watching your own son play a ball game.
I kept thinking as I was reading that "Did his son get cut from the 8 year old travel team tryouts?" Who knows.
Coach May,
To be honest-
That was one of the best posts I have ever read in response to the OP! You really rang a bell when you mentioned- "Maybe if more parents got a little crazy over their kids when they were young we wouldn't have so many problems with some of these kids when they were older?"
I often look at todays world we live in and watch all of the delinquncy problems we have with our youth and it comes right down to where the rubber meets the road- what is our ambition in life- where is our destination? For far too many it is not spending time with the kids and family. With technology and the competition with the Jones, Parents work more, spend less quality time with their families, and kids too often, are left to the idol vices of the world.
I will say this- Parents of kids who support their children, be it going to the play at the school or going to volleyball games or orchestra recitals, or even driving thousands of miles watching son play baseball, these are the kids who have the most hope in an ever encroaching evil and idol society!
Kudos to the parents who help their children chase dreams and perfection, whatever it be and whatever sacrifice it costs!
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
GBM,
Not sure where you are getting your info... unfortunately, baseball participation has been declining for many years. From 2000 to 2009, participation in U.S. for ages 7-17 declined 24% (according to a very reliable source - National Sporting Goods Association). And I know that it certainly declined in the '90's as well.
It has been a constant battle for the major manufacturers to keep the baseball equipment numbers from declining due to the increasing popularity of video games, board sports, etc. over the last few decades.
I am often skepticle though of stats about baseball popularity. I will say that typical rec ball may be seeing a decline but I personally believe it is because more and more are moving to travel ball. How do they really determine the stats? I know that no one in my area reports how many little leaguers there were (we don't even belong to any nationally recognized LL organization) from season to season. In HS ball, there are more and more kids in my area trying out each year and yet I am sure no one is reporting how many kids are trying out for the HS team. As for travel ball, most travel teams do absolutely no reporting on their status either. So I am left to wonder exactly how they get these numbers. The only thing that comes to mind is with nationally recognized and affiliated rec ball leagues where they really do keep track of those numbers. But, we all know kids are migrating by the hoards to private leagues and organizations and travel teams that do not track attendance, membership, etc.
What is the reliable source- where exactly did they get the stats from?
quote:Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
GBM,
Not sure where you are getting your info... unfortunately, baseball participation has been declining for many years. From 2000 to 2009, participation in U.S. for ages 7-17 declined 24% (according to a very reliable source - National Sporting Goods Association). And I know that it certainly declined in the '90's as well.
It has been a constant battle for the major manufacturers to keep the baseball equipment numbers from declining due to the increasing popularity of video games, board sports, etc. over the last few decades.
I am often skepticle though of stats about baseball popularity. I will say that typical rec ball may be seeing a decline but I personally believe it is because more and more are moving to travel ball. How do they really determine the stats? I know that no one in my area reports how many little leaguers there were (we don't even belong to any nationally recognized LL organization) from season to season. In HS ball, there are more and more kids in my area trying out each year and yet I am sure no one is reporting how many kids are trying out for the HS team. As for travel ball, most travel teams do absolutely no reporting on their status either. So I am left to wonder exactly how they get these numbers. The only thing that comes to mind is with nationally recognized and affiliated rec ball leagues where they really do keep track of those numbers. But, we all know kids are migrating by the hoards to private leagues and organizations and travel teams that do not track attendance, membership, etc.
What is the reliable source- where exactly did they get the stats from?
GBM,
As posted above, the source is the National Sporting Good Assoc. The stats are readily available via a search for "baseball participation year over year". Together with the SGMA (Sporting Goods Manufacturers Assoc.), these two organizations have been extremely dilligent and thorough with participation studies and regular surveys cross-checking retailers, manufacturers and end-users of all types in putting out their data. It is quite accurate. Just a small example - the manufacturers sell bats and balls. Every sanctioned league/organization has a different marking requirement for their balls and often for their bats as well. Organizations such as Little League, Cal Ripken, National HS Fed and NCAA share particpation numbers with the manufacturers partially so that the proper quantities of properly marked balls and other product are made available.
I know this because I was in the business for over 25 years and it was a significant part of my job to know. I studied up on the participation shifts and the analysis of the results on a very regular basis.
In addition to the shift toward skateboarding, bmx and related sports in the '90s and the advanced video games of the 2000's, kids have generally migrated away from baseball also because of the proliferation of instant gratification. More and more kids found baseball to be too slow and boring. Growth of other sports that were once limited to small regional pockets (i.e. - lacrosse) have also taken away potential participants from baseball.
While travel ball and some of the non-Little League entities such as Cal Ripken have grown, the overall numbers are as stated - in decline.
This has been painful for me to watch as I am a baseball guy first, but it is definitely fact.
Personally, I am dedicating quite a chunk of my time to reverse that trend. I know that many others on this site are doing the same in one form or another. I'm glad to hear that things appear to be going well in your neck of the woods.
Frankly, I think the premise of the article is rubbish....kids/parents play travel baseball for some sort of snob appeal is total c-r-a-p.
Kids play baseball because it is fun, they like it, and they can play with their friends. Most parents allow (finance) their kids baseball dreams so they have the opportunity to play in high school or beyond. Truth is that baseball has become increasingly competitive, and most need some level of instruction or guidance to further develop their skills. People don't like to shell out their hard earned dollars to then tell other people that their son plays travel baseball or goes to a private instructor. People shell out their hard earned dollars because their son loves baseball, and he wants to get better. It is up to the parents to figure out if an instructor or travel team is adding value or taking them for a ride with promises of college scholarships, etc.... Trust me, there are quite a few of those charlatans in our area. I suspect they are in your area too.
Rather than writing the article on the snob appeal of travel baseball, I would like to have seen the author expose greed on some of these less than savory travel organizations, and the business men that run them. But, I don't think the author thought of that because he is clearly writing this from the outside looking in.....he doesn't understand the value and popularity of travel baseball. I think I'll keep my subscription to Sport Illustrated.
Kids play baseball because it is fun, they like it, and they can play with their friends. Most parents allow (finance) their kids baseball dreams so they have the opportunity to play in high school or beyond. Truth is that baseball has become increasingly competitive, and most need some level of instruction or guidance to further develop their skills. People don't like to shell out their hard earned dollars to then tell other people that their son plays travel baseball or goes to a private instructor. People shell out their hard earned dollars because their son loves baseball, and he wants to get better. It is up to the parents to figure out if an instructor or travel team is adding value or taking them for a ride with promises of college scholarships, etc.... Trust me, there are quite a few of those charlatans in our area. I suspect they are in your area too.
Rather than writing the article on the snob appeal of travel baseball, I would like to have seen the author expose greed on some of these less than savory travel organizations, and the business men that run them. But, I don't think the author thought of that because he is clearly writing this from the outside looking in.....he doesn't understand the value and popularity of travel baseball. I think I'll keep my subscription to Sport Illustrated.
Lets get down to it. Travel ball, elite, select. Pay your money and call it anything you want.
This thread made me think of my brother-in-law's response when I quizzed him on the advisability of my boy playing "travel" ball. (I put travel in quotes because we live in an area where you can find plenty of good competition withing 20 miles.) I asked his advice because he keeps his mouth shut unless he has something to say. His response via e-mail:
All I can say is that I truly regret not having Junior play competitive baseball and basketball until last year. I gave into all the PC moms around talking about how “over the top” the competitive leagues were around us. Finally, after getting into them, they are nothing more than what was “normal” when I was growing up. I think that says a lot of bad things about the American psyche and what we are teaching our children about competitiveness(but that is another story). Junior has progressed almost exponentially since he started playing with a group of kids that were there to play hard. They also seem to get FAR more out of being on the team and the wins seem to be an even better experience for all of them.
If I had to give a word of unsolicited advice about kids baseball now days…….. go with what you think is best and ignore what the s****r moms have been telling you is extreme. I have finally come to the conclusion that most of that chatter is coming from the parents that never played themselves or parents of the kids that most likely would never play competitive ball anyway. I just wish Junior and I could have those years back to do things differently.
All I can say is that I truly regret not having Junior play competitive baseball and basketball until last year. I gave into all the PC moms around talking about how “over the top” the competitive leagues were around us. Finally, after getting into them, they are nothing more than what was “normal” when I was growing up. I think that says a lot of bad things about the American psyche and what we are teaching our children about competitiveness(but that is another story). Junior has progressed almost exponentially since he started playing with a group of kids that were there to play hard. They also seem to get FAR more out of being on the team and the wins seem to be an even better experience for all of them.
If I had to give a word of unsolicited advice about kids baseball now days…….. go with what you think is best and ignore what the s****r moms have been telling you is extreme. I have finally come to the conclusion that most of that chatter is coming from the parents that never played themselves or parents of the kids that most likely would never play competitive ball anyway. I just wish Junior and I could have those years back to do things differently.
quote:Originally posted by Will:
Lets get down to it. Travel ball, elite, select. Pay your money and call it anything you want.
They travel in LL too, right? It's all the same really, different organization.
Almost 10 years ago, son's senior summer, it cost a LOT of money for that exposure. So as far as costs everything is relative. It was a good program and son did well as it did most of the players.
That's a lot different than spending money that parents don't have for their 9,10,11 year olds. I have run across a lot of folks that feel the need that there are things they HAVE to do at that age. That's ok, if you have $$$, no one can tell you how to spend your money, just don't spend what you don't have, my suggestion is to save it for later when it is really important (if the goal is to play after HS). That's one thing that concerns me, these are tough times, you don't have to pay a lot of money to feel like you will be a better parent.
I hear they have travel tball these days?
I don't get the dissing of rec leagues. When kids are that young, baseball is baseball, the first step is in learning the game, learning to be part of a team, and having fun with your buddies. The problem is that many adults think it's meaningful at that age, I don't agree.
If you teach your sons to love and respect the game, it doesn't matter where you play. And IMO, extensive travel is the main cuprit for youth injuries.
That's just the way I see it, doesn't make it right or wrong.
Lookingt at the cartoon and then reading the article, my take was the same as Cleveland Dad's. Basically poking a little fun at the parent who is living vicariously through his/her son. I guess I just took it lightly so I could laugh through it, and possibly see myself in it at times, although I hope not to a big degree,
Like Coach May put it so well, almost all of us have probably gone a little over the top at times. But if we can afford it, our children enjoy it, and they are choosing to practice and participate-- then why not? Of course balance is key. Spiritual, academic, and emotional development are critical during these years, and I certainly hope we are raising our children with more than baseball in mind. But it's been fun and our family has no regrets so far.
I also agree with TPM about financial responsibility. In this economy it is so important to spend within your means. This summer our son was more fiscally aware of our baseball budget because we felt he needed to be a part of the decision making process. I think he learned a lot.
Really, we have enjoyed travel ball as well as league ball. They both taught our children something and we have good memories. I would never feel so presumptuous to say one was better than the other, as they both serve a purpose. Like everything, there are extremes.
Like Coach May put it so well, almost all of us have probably gone a little over the top at times. But if we can afford it, our children enjoy it, and they are choosing to practice and participate-- then why not? Of course balance is key. Spiritual, academic, and emotional development are critical during these years, and I certainly hope we are raising our children with more than baseball in mind. But it's been fun and our family has no regrets so far.
I also agree with TPM about financial responsibility. In this economy it is so important to spend within your means. This summer our son was more fiscally aware of our baseball budget because we felt he needed to be a part of the decision making process. I think he learned a lot.
Really, we have enjoyed travel ball as well as league ball. They both taught our children something and we have good memories. I would never feel so presumptuous to say one was better than the other, as they both serve a purpose. Like everything, there are extremes.
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
GBM,
As posted above, the source is the National Sporting Good Assoc. The stats are readily available via a search for "baseball participation year over year". Together with the SGMA (Sporting Goods Manufacturers Assoc.), these two organizations have been extremely dilligent and thorough with participation studies and regular surveys cross-checking retailers, manufacturers and end-users of all types in putting out their data. It is quite accurate. Just a small example - the manufacturers sell bats and balls. Every sanctioned league/organization has a different marking requirement for their balls and often for their bats as well. Organizations such as Little League, Cal Ripken, National HS Fed and NCAA share particpation numbers with the manufacturers partially so that the proper quantities of properly marked balls and other product are made available.
I know this because I was in the business for over 25 years and it was a significant part of my job to know. I studied up on the participation shifts and the analysis of the results on a very regular basis.
In addition to the shift toward skateboarding, bmx and related sports in the '90s and the advanced video games of the 2000's, kids have generally migrated away from baseball also because of the proliferation of instant gratification. More and more kids found baseball to be too slow and boring. Growth of other sports that were once limited to small regional pockets (i.e. - lacrosse) have also taken away potential participants from baseball.
While travel ball and some of the non-Little League entities such as Cal Ripken have grown, the overall numbers are as stated - in decline.
This has been painful for me to watch as I am a baseball guy first, but it is definitely fact.
Personally, I am dedicating quite a chunk of my time to reverse that trend. I know that many others on this site are doing the same in one form or another. I'm glad to hear that things appear to be going well in your neck of the woods.
Ok,Perhaps I am a little confused about how they generate the stats. Take my area for example. The only little league (rec ball) one can join is done as not part of any nationally sanctioned group. We have our own little league rules, bylaws, etc. We do not report any numbers to anyone. Our little league consists of approximately 30 teams from ages 7-14 with an average of about 12 on each team. These numbers have been generally steady over the past ten years. Then you have the travel teams in my area that play through a local private organization (RMSB) You probably have another 30 teams in the same age categories playing in this league, many of which have migrated from the local rec ball league. This number is growing exponetially from year to year. I am sure that no one is reporting these numbers to anyone either.
If we go off of sales alone, this can be confusing because many now are buying better equpment that last longer and thus not buying mitts or bats every year. Many teams that travel are using "team bats" and equipment and thus- less overall expense. So we can't really go off sales either.
So I am left to wonder exactly how they produce accurate numbers and stats?
Agree with Gingerbreadman to a degree, we have seen huge growth of teams in our area as well, but more importantly something else needs to be factored in. Back in the "old days" youth bats & gloves were often bought for $25-50 each, used, then thrown in the back of a closet or on a shelf in the garage. Maybe a younger sibling ended up using one, but often they had their own new glove & bat. The last dozen years has brought us tons of local sports forums, eBay, Craigslist, etc & many of these more expensive gloves & bats get quickly advertised, resold, & reused, sometimes several times. This along with poor economy & lack of disposable income has taken a big bite out of prospective sales of new bats & gloves.
GBM,
While your area is a bit unusual in that your youth league doesn't belong to some larger organinzation, there are many more ways to skin a cat.
You still buy uniforms. Your leagues still buy baseballs from local sporting goods dealers or from internet or catalogers who all buy from the mfctr and most report some level of detail to the groups I mentioned. In addition to institutional and organizational reports, there are also household participation surveys.
I hate to burst your bubble with your "better equipment" comment, but...
From a durability and materials standpoint, baseballs, gloves, uni's and even bats are essentially the same as they were 20 yrs ago. There are some new bat materials, but those typically only lessen the durability in exchange for performance (and only at the high end). Most of the base models are still 7040 or 7050 alloy with a rubber or synthetic grip. There are some new moisture-wicking uni fabrics but they generally snag easier and don't hold up any longer. Baseballs are very much the same and this item is the key indicator from an equipment standpoint.
Top brass for the baseball divisions of Easton, Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, Nike, Under Armour, H&B, Demarini, Majestic, New Era and the rest are keenly aware of the participation numbers, as are the major retailers and team sales operations. These groups also work together with NSGA and SGMA as well as the league organizations and institutions.
If you still doubt at this point, I don't know what else to tell you. Apologies to our fellow members for beating this horse dead.
While your area is a bit unusual in that your youth league doesn't belong to some larger organinzation, there are many more ways to skin a cat.
You still buy uniforms. Your leagues still buy baseballs from local sporting goods dealers or from internet or catalogers who all buy from the mfctr and most report some level of detail to the groups I mentioned. In addition to institutional and organizational reports, there are also household participation surveys.
I hate to burst your bubble with your "better equipment" comment, but...
From a durability and materials standpoint, baseballs, gloves, uni's and even bats are essentially the same as they were 20 yrs ago. There are some new bat materials, but those typically only lessen the durability in exchange for performance (and only at the high end). Most of the base models are still 7040 or 7050 alloy with a rubber or synthetic grip. There are some new moisture-wicking uni fabrics but they generally snag easier and don't hold up any longer. Baseballs are very much the same and this item is the key indicator from an equipment standpoint.
Top brass for the baseball divisions of Easton, Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, Nike, Under Armour, H&B, Demarini, Majestic, New Era and the rest are keenly aware of the participation numbers, as are the major retailers and team sales operations. These groups also work together with NSGA and SGMA as well as the league organizations and institutions.
If you still doubt at this point, I don't know what else to tell you. Apologies to our fellow members for beating this horse dead.
Journey,
I don't discount that point entirely, but as it relates to the argument of the accuracy of the participation figures...
-sales data is just one of many data points
-used equipment sales are also monitored and account for a very small portion of baseball equipment sales
-ebay and amazon have been around for quite some time now. prior to that, and still today, Play It Again served/s the same purpose
-All three report thier sales categorically
-generally, gloves are a very personal thing. most won't buy a used glove, particularly without being able to "try it on". Collectors are the exception but don't figure in to the participation discussion
-most baseball equipment sold on ebay and amazon is actually new equipment sold by dealers and, thus, accounted for accordingly
I don't discount that point entirely, but as it relates to the argument of the accuracy of the participation figures...
-sales data is just one of many data points
-used equipment sales are also monitored and account for a very small portion of baseball equipment sales
-ebay and amazon have been around for quite some time now. prior to that, and still today, Play It Again served/s the same purpose
-All three report thier sales categorically
-generally, gloves are a very personal thing. most won't buy a used glove, particularly without being able to "try it on". Collectors are the exception but don't figure in to the participation discussion
-most baseball equipment sold on ebay and amazon is actually new equipment sold by dealers and, thus, accounted for accordingly
quote:Originally posted by cabbagedad:
GBM,
While your area is a bit unusual in that your youth league doesn't belong to some larger organinzation, there are many more ways to skin a cat.
You still buy uniforms. Your leagues still buy baseballs from local sporting goods dealers or from internet or catalogers who all buy from the mfctr and most report some level of detail to the groups I mentioned. In addition to institutional and organizational reports, there are also household participation surveys.
I hate to burst your bubble with your "better equipment" comment, but...
From a durability and materials standpoint, baseballs, gloves, uni's and even bats are essentially the same as they were 20 yrs ago. There are some new bat materials, but those typically only lessen the durability in exchange for performance (and only at the high end). Most of the base models are still 7040 or 7050 alloy with a rubber or synthetic grip. There are some new moisture-wicking uni fabrics but they generally snag easier and don't hold up any longer. Baseballs are very much the same and this item is the key indicator from an equipment standpoint.
Top brass for the baseball divisions of Easton, Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, Nike, Under Armour, H&B, Demarini, Majestic, New Era and the rest are keenly aware of the participation numbers, as are the major retailers and team sales operations. These groups also work together with NSGA and SGMA as well as the league organizations and institutions.
If you still doubt at this point, I don't know what else to tell you. Apologies to our fellow members for beating this horse dead.
I don't mean to nit-pick but.. let's take sales for instance. This year our local sports store went out of business due to lack of sales. Lack of selling baseball jerseys, gloves, bats, cleats, etc. led him to shut down his store. Turns out, the local little league went through a local printing company who just bought normal T-shirts and printed numbers and logos on them. The travel teams, in order to save on costs are using last years Jerseys. In our case, son needed a new glove and we just couldn't afford it so we just repaired his old one. He had some cleats given to him this year that were someone elses whose foot grew out of them. Normally, in a better economy and cheaper gas prices, we would have been able to afford a new glove, cleats, etc.
But here is where I don't get- if my son accounts for the percentage of the stats of who is playing, it counts against that number as if he is not playing. But in reality- he has played more this year than any year before. Our legion team, in order to keep costs low, bought team bats so that everyone wouldn't have to go and but their own bat. The whole team thus used 3 bats all season long whereas in years past the players individually would have bought at least 8-10 bats. We also bought better balls and used them more instead of just buying a lot of new balls. We actually played more games in legion than in years past and had a bigger team. But, according to mere sales, it would look like there was a decrease in our area with playing baseball. Just the opposite.
Personally I think that mere new sales as reported by manufactures doesn't tell the real story. We all know that as for nationally sanctioned bodies like "Little League" and "Pony League" and "Cal Ripken" etc. are all declining in large areas. But we also know that there has been a dramatic increase in travel ball. Out travel league now consists of over 300 teams. Much of that growth is because players are moving more towards the alure of travel ball.
I would also suspect that showcase events, professional and collegiate camps are probably also increasing in numbers.
With a cash strapped economy, people spending less for the same play time, and the move of players leaving rec ball to play in private leagues and organizations, I just can't see how the stats can be very accurate.
quote:Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
Oh and by the way:
Baseball has nothing on Volleyball yet. Just saying.
Is it just Pennsylvania where the team that is eliminated at 11 am Sunday always seems to be the team assigned to 'work' the final match at 6 pm?
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
Oh and by the way:
Baseball has nothing on Volleyball yet. Just saying.
Is it just Pennsylvania where the team that is eliminated at 11 am Sunday always seems to be the team assigned to 'work' the final match at 6 pm?
I think that is on page 1 of the evil Tournament Director's handbook
GBM,
As I said before, sales are just one data point. League participation numbers are another. When your local travel team plays in tourneys, most are sanctioned and participation recorded.
If you are part of a travel league that includes 300 teams, believe me, that league is on the radar. You think the territory sales rep for Easton doesn't know about you? That's how his bills get paid.
Players moving from rec to travel doesn't equate to growth. The net is still down. As far as showcase and camps, these participants are the same players as those in travel ball - not increased participation.
You continue to use your local picture as the argument. In our area, the local Little Leagues and new Cal Ripken's and Babe Ruth's combined have less teams than ten years ago. Some went to travel but the overall numbers are still net down - more indicative of the rest of the country.
The 24% decline numbers stated were part of exhaustive survey and cross-checking. Certainly, the margin of error would be within a few percentage points. If it makes you feel better, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it only declined 22%
We really are beating the **** out of this one and it's not related directly to the OP topic. Please feel free to PM me if you wish to continue.
As I said before, sales are just one data point. League participation numbers are another. When your local travel team plays in tourneys, most are sanctioned and participation recorded.
If you are part of a travel league that includes 300 teams, believe me, that league is on the radar. You think the territory sales rep for Easton doesn't know about you? That's how his bills get paid.
Players moving from rec to travel doesn't equate to growth. The net is still down. As far as showcase and camps, these participants are the same players as those in travel ball - not increased participation.
You continue to use your local picture as the argument. In our area, the local Little Leagues and new Cal Ripken's and Babe Ruth's combined have less teams than ten years ago. Some went to travel but the overall numbers are still net down - more indicative of the rest of the country.
The 24% decline numbers stated were part of exhaustive survey and cross-checking. Certainly, the margin of error would be within a few percentage points. If it makes you feel better, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it only declined 22%
We really are beating the **** out of this one and it's not related directly to the OP topic. Please feel free to PM me if you wish to continue.
Is baseball really so different from other kids activities these days? Would any of our parents have spent the time and money we spend on __________(insert activity of choice here - baseball - s****r - dance - art - horseback riding - chess - or SAT prep). The bigger question is not so much about baseball as it is about raising kids in general.
With that said - 2 points regarding the original post.
1. When my older son (21 now) wanted to play "travel ball" at age 11 there were only 2 or 3 teams in our area and you had to be VERY GOOD to be asked to play. None of the teams were anything more than break-even propositions financially. This fall (ten years later) there are 20+ travel teams available in our area for 11 to 13 year old players. Some are businesses - some are not. You do NOT need any particular level of skill to find a team that will take your money. Is it great that there are more opportunities? Maybe.
2. I do have a problem with teams aimed at high school players that purport to provide opportunities to be seen by scouts to players that will not impress no matter how many scouts see them. While I think playing baseball is a great pass-time regardless of a players ability to make it at a higher lever - selling unrealistic expectations is terrible.
With that said - 2 points regarding the original post.
1. When my older son (21 now) wanted to play "travel ball" at age 11 there were only 2 or 3 teams in our area and you had to be VERY GOOD to be asked to play. None of the teams were anything more than break-even propositions financially. This fall (ten years later) there are 20+ travel teams available in our area for 11 to 13 year old players. Some are businesses - some are not. You do NOT need any particular level of skill to find a team that will take your money. Is it great that there are more opportunities? Maybe.
2. I do have a problem with teams aimed at high school players that purport to provide opportunities to be seen by scouts to players that will not impress no matter how many scouts see them. While I think playing baseball is a great pass-time regardless of a players ability to make it at a higher lever - selling unrealistic expectations is terrible.
Parents are indoctrinated and conditioned into to the expenses, effort and family sacrifices of select ball, travelling for tournmaments, fundraising, private instruction, etc. at an early stage in their kid's baseball career. This early conditioning directly benefits similar groups at the high school level. High School programs particularly benefit by having prepared Freshman parents that can be leaned on to support a program. Baseball parents are the best fundraisers in the high school. They contribute the most to volunteer work. We are active in the booster club and strongly support the program.
Outside the high school program, we willingly support camps, travel ball, showcases, summer ball, hotel rooms, airline tickets, gasoline, private instructors, reading material and videos, and are the major financial supporters of an entire equipment industry that sells bats, gloves, batting gloves, and baseball cleats.
Those benefiting from the high school parents pocket book and hard work owe a thank you to the youth groups that trained and prepared us. Your personal benefits would not be as great without them.
Outside the high school program, we willingly support camps, travel ball, showcases, summer ball, hotel rooms, airline tickets, gasoline, private instructors, reading material and videos, and are the major financial supporters of an entire equipment industry that sells bats, gloves, batting gloves, and baseball cleats.
Those benefiting from the high school parents pocket book and hard work owe a thank you to the youth groups that trained and prepared us. Your personal benefits would not be as great without them.
Maybe but at nine years old?
I mean many of us cringe when we see these parents that go overboard dressing up their little girls in outfits that I wouldn't let my 16 year old daughter wear just to participate in these junior beauty pagents yet many of us have no qualms about bundling Johnny up into a car and driving 375 miles so he can play baseball against another team that drove 360 miles for the same tourney.
There is a lot that can be learned from select/travel ball and those lessons certainly transfer in the high school level but 8-10 year olds should be spending more time being kids and less time on the road. If given the choice I am sure that most of these kids would much rather hang around and bike/skakeboard/fish/hunt for snakes with their buddies rather than spending an entire weekend waiting for the next tournament game to start.
Some kids are different, some will naturally want to compete at that level and I suppose that is fine but for many kids the main motivator for them is making their parents happy. My son didn't participate in any true 'travel' ball until he was 12 and I was happy that he waited. A childhood is short enough without creating more unnecessary stress for the kid.
I mean many of us cringe when we see these parents that go overboard dressing up their little girls in outfits that I wouldn't let my 16 year old daughter wear just to participate in these junior beauty pagents yet many of us have no qualms about bundling Johnny up into a car and driving 375 miles so he can play baseball against another team that drove 360 miles for the same tourney.
There is a lot that can be learned from select/travel ball and those lessons certainly transfer in the high school level but 8-10 year olds should be spending more time being kids and less time on the road. If given the choice I am sure that most of these kids would much rather hang around and bike/skakeboard/fish/hunt for snakes with their buddies rather than spending an entire weekend waiting for the next tournament game to start.
Some kids are different, some will naturally want to compete at that level and I suppose that is fine but for many kids the main motivator for them is making their parents happy. My son didn't participate in any true 'travel' ball until he was 12 and I was happy that he waited. A childhood is short enough without creating more unnecessary stress for the kid.
Some of the things missing from this article are the reasons many play travel.
1. Most kids on travel teams want to play. They are not there because dad wants them there and is forcing them to like little league.
2. The level of play among the team is closer. I watched a 12 year old LL game in our local LL and they had 4 players that still could not catch at the end of the season.
3. There would be no competition locally for the upper level select players especially at the younger ages. We have 3 10 years that throw consisently upper 60's and 2 have hit 70. We faced a kid at world series 10 year olds that threw 72. How would that work in 10 year old little league.
4. The instruction is far better. I know there are daddy ball coaches but they are getting fewer in elite ball even at the younger ages.
5. I disagree with the wait til they are 15-16 year old statement. They will be so far behind that they will never catch up to their potential. It comes down to what are you willing to do for your kid. if my kid was a genius I would have him in MIT for summer but he is a baseball player so we are on the field.
6. the relationships thing is a mute point. My sons have built relationships with players all over the world. My son at the Citadel has friends playing D1 and pro ball all over the place. He still has his local friends but they are not as big a deal because they can't relate to his life.
AS I have said for years on here. It comes down to what each parent wants and is willing to do for their child. Little league and rec is good for some. Travel is good for others.
1. Most kids on travel teams want to play. They are not there because dad wants them there and is forcing them to like little league.
2. The level of play among the team is closer. I watched a 12 year old LL game in our local LL and they had 4 players that still could not catch at the end of the season.
3. There would be no competition locally for the upper level select players especially at the younger ages. We have 3 10 years that throw consisently upper 60's and 2 have hit 70. We faced a kid at world series 10 year olds that threw 72. How would that work in 10 year old little league.
4. The instruction is far better. I know there are daddy ball coaches but they are getting fewer in elite ball even at the younger ages.
5. I disagree with the wait til they are 15-16 year old statement. They will be so far behind that they will never catch up to their potential. It comes down to what are you willing to do for your kid. if my kid was a genius I would have him in MIT for summer but he is a baseball player so we are on the field.
6. the relationships thing is a mute point. My sons have built relationships with players all over the world. My son at the Citadel has friends playing D1 and pro ball all over the place. He still has his local friends but they are not as big a deal because they can't relate to his life.
AS I have said for years on here. It comes down to what each parent wants and is willing to do for their child. Little league and rec is good for some. Travel is good for others.
If the author of the article was trying to capture the insane side of preteen travel he caught it. There are parents who get too caught up in it and will spend any amount of money because their kid is "the one."
Is preteen travel insane? It depends on your motives. My son played community based travel s****r started at age eight, community based travel basketball at age nine and community based travel baseball at age nine. He also played rec basketball and rec baseball concurrently. The cost of community based travel is not outrageous. We didn't travel far. My son didn't play for the purpose of playing at the next level. He played because it was "more ball" and he enjoyed playing sports.
Starting at 13U he started playing USSSA ball to be in the most competitive environment. The kids were now on the full size field. It was time to play at the best level of play. Early teen travel ball prepared him better for high school ball. He saw some 80 mph in 13U and 14U from the early bloomer pitchers. The funny thing is one kid I remember hitting 80 in 13U was still throwing the same speed on JV as a soph where his baseball career ended.
Is preteen travel insane? It depends on your motives. My son played community based travel s****r started at age eight, community based travel basketball at age nine and community based travel baseball at age nine. He also played rec basketball and rec baseball concurrently. The cost of community based travel is not outrageous. We didn't travel far. My son didn't play for the purpose of playing at the next level. He played because it was "more ball" and he enjoyed playing sports.
Starting at 13U he started playing USSSA ball to be in the most competitive environment. The kids were now on the full size field. It was time to play at the best level of play. Early teen travel ball prepared him better for high school ball. He saw some 80 mph in 13U and 14U from the early bloomer pitchers. The funny thing is one kid I remember hitting 80 in 13U was still throwing the same speed on JV as a soph where his baseball career ended.
All I know is.... if a kid plays travel ball, let's say for a good academy, he will have a higher "baseball IQ" than kids that just played local LL. They will know how to play the game.
How come it's ok for 9-14 year olds to play elite travel ball but not ok for 17,18 year old kids to give up their last year in HS to go play ball in college?
I mean if one is saying get a jump on it early why not go to school early...what's the difference...just saying.
I mean if one is saying get a jump on it early why not go to school early...what's the difference...just saying.
I'm all for both. I believe it is the choice of the parents and the kid. We make choices for our kids. Some kids spend 4 hours a day studying every night. For what? To get good grades. To make money. To get ahead in life. My answer is there is no difference in that and baseball.
Some will answer that the time studying is preparing them for the future. Not for all kids. I know a lot of guys who have no college and make tons of money. It is about what you want for your kid and what you are willing to give up to get it.
If a kid wants to give up his senior year to go on to college, then go for it. Is it wise? According to the kid.
Some will answer that the time studying is preparing them for the future. Not for all kids. I know a lot of guys who have no college and make tons of money. It is about what you want for your kid and what you are willing to give up to get it.
If a kid wants to give up his senior year to go on to college, then go for it. Is it wise? According to the kid.
If it's that big a deal then don't let your kid play. For us our summer vacations are extensions of tournaments. My son loves baseball and has had the opportunity to play many more games than he would in rec. Ball with kids he will not have to worry about coaching. The travel decision for us came when my son played rec ball and at his first practice the coach put the kids at short and hit them balls to throw to first. My sons turn came, he caught the grounder and fired a ball to first hitting the first baseman in the face. The coach yells "never throw a ball that hard", it took all season to get my son to actually throw the ball rather than rolling it after that. All the parents complained that he was to big to play with there kids etc.(he was 1 to 2 years younger than all the other kids). The worst year of baseball he ever played and he learned parents can also crashes to little kids. if not for "travel" ball he would have quit playing.
I can tell you most of the parents on that rec. Team would agree with your article but they didn't want a 7 year old hurting their 9 year old.
I can tell you most of the parents on that rec. Team would agree with your article but they didn't want a 7 year old hurting their 9 year old.
good stuff
quote:Originally posted by throw'n bb's:
For us our summer vacations are extensions of tournaments.
I love it! For years, people have asked me where we're going on vacation. My answer? Omaha!
Baseball has allowed my boys to visit San Diego, Long Beach, Omaha, St. Louis, Notre Dame, Minneapolis, Tampa, Jupiter, Orlando, Cooperstown, and I don't know how many other places around the Midwest.
Some people water ski...we play baseball.
quote:Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Some people water ski...we play baseball.
Actually there is no reason you cannot do both. We always try to find local things to do in between games. Granted it is easier for a starting pitcher because you do not play every day, and depending on the coach, do not show up for every game.
Regardless I agree with your point about being able to travel and visit many different places. We got into the whole travel team thing late, but went to some nice places and met some great people in the last year.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:...8-10 year olds should be spending more time being kids and less time on the road.
I agree. I had just as much fun watching my little boy fall head over heels into a trout stream. (he knew how to swim
) I've said it before. If your kid wants to play baseball all the time, that's fine. We did lots of other things. No regrets, here.
Next month son will be 26, he began tball at 6. That means that he has been playing the game for almost 20 years.
I am very happy that mine got to do lots of other things when growing up. This year between spring training, season, perhaps winter ball, it will be about 10 months of bb and that means living out of a suitcase and lying your head down in a different city, quite often.
Not complaining, but just another reason why I agree that 8-10 year olds should spend more time being kids and less time on the road.
I am very happy that mine got to do lots of other things when growing up. This year between spring training, season, perhaps winter ball, it will be about 10 months of bb and that means living out of a suitcase and lying your head down in a different city, quite often.
Not complaining, but just another reason why I agree that 8-10 year olds should spend more time being kids and less time on the road.
I agree, TPM. I just don't know if I'd recognize an "elite" 8 or 9 y.o. ballplayer if I saw one. Would he hit it 150 ft. and everyone else 130? Would he throw 45 and every other player 35-40?
In the town where Bum, Jr. grew up there was one such group of kids who were selected for an "elite" travel team at age 9. Those kids played together as one group all the way through h.s. One made D1 (backup), a few made J.C. ball and the rest fell to the wayside.
Any parent is kidding themselves if they think getting their kid onto an elite 8-10 y.o. squad will give him an advantage. Ages 12-13 maybe. Ages 14-15 definitely.
The only ways to achieve greatness in this game is through talent, hard work and heart.
I would ask Bum, Jr. nearly every day after practice if he still loved the game. "Yes," he would say. My next question is whether he would do what it takes to reach the top. "Yes," he would say. And there he was, in the middle of winter 5-6x a week year-round, training for the thaw of spring. That's what it takes. Maybe not so much the 5-6x a week in Winter but the heart.
That the talent would eventually come was icing on the cake.
In the town where Bum, Jr. grew up there was one such group of kids who were selected for an "elite" travel team at age 9. Those kids played together as one group all the way through h.s. One made D1 (backup), a few made J.C. ball and the rest fell to the wayside.
Any parent is kidding themselves if they think getting their kid onto an elite 8-10 y.o. squad will give him an advantage. Ages 12-13 maybe. Ages 14-15 definitely.
The only ways to achieve greatness in this game is through talent, hard work and heart.
I would ask Bum, Jr. nearly every day after practice if he still loved the game. "Yes," he would say. My next question is whether he would do what it takes to reach the top. "Yes," he would say. And there he was, in the middle of winter 5-6x a week year-round, training for the thaw of spring. That's what it takes. Maybe not so much the 5-6x a week in Winter but the heart.
That the talent would eventually come was icing on the cake.
Great thread, and here goes my 2 cents:
Little league is a form of travel ball too. Parents have to "travel" across town to take their kid to practice. Parents have to drive their kid to the LL field for games. I hardly ever saw kids ride a bike to their LL games. In fact I wonder if bikes were even allowed in the park due to liability reasons.
I challenge those that run leagues to go back to the old neighborhood teams, ban the draft, practice at your local elementary school and ride bikes everywhere. mmm the good old days.
And lets talk money, one of my pet peeves are these promoters (travel coaches) that were lucky enough to get an entry into say perfect game tourny or the AZ senior classic. Now they are charging up to $1,000 for kids to play (and not even every game) and this does not even cover transportation, hotel, and food. I challenge the event organizers to put a stop to this. Is this in the spirit of recreation and fun for our kids? I think not.
Little league is a form of travel ball too. Parents have to "travel" across town to take their kid to practice. Parents have to drive their kid to the LL field for games. I hardly ever saw kids ride a bike to their LL games. In fact I wonder if bikes were even allowed in the park due to liability reasons.
I challenge those that run leagues to go back to the old neighborhood teams, ban the draft, practice at your local elementary school and ride bikes everywhere. mmm the good old days.
And lets talk money, one of my pet peeves are these promoters (travel coaches) that were lucky enough to get an entry into say perfect game tourny or the AZ senior classic. Now they are charging up to $1,000 for kids to play (and not even every game) and this does not even cover transportation, hotel, and food. I challenge the event organizers to put a stop to this. Is this in the spirit of recreation and fun for our kids? I think not.
If a 10 y.o. kid is being charged $1,000 to play in a tournament in Arizona, I agree this is too much.
On the flip side, a 16-17 y.o. kid can pay $1,000 to pitch 3 innings or play the field a few innings and receive multiple college offers. It is not always about the price, or about the amount of playing time, at least at a showcase.
Parents making this decision really need to ask themselves if their kid is a true prospect. Who is to blame if a parent shells out a thousand bucks when their kid is out of shape, lacking in tools, and has basically no chance? The showcase or the parent?
On the flip side, a 16-17 y.o. kid can pay $1,000 to pitch 3 innings or play the field a few innings and receive multiple college offers. It is not always about the price, or about the amount of playing time, at least at a showcase.
Parents making this decision really need to ask themselves if their kid is a true prospect. Who is to blame if a parent shells out a thousand bucks when their kid is out of shape, lacking in tools, and has basically no chance? The showcase or the parent?
quote:Originally posted by Bum:
I agree, TPM. I just don't know if I'd recognize an "elite" 8 or 9 y.o. ballplayer if I saw one. Would he hit it 150 ft. and everyone else 130? Would he throw 45 and every other player 35-40?
In the town where Bum, Jr. grew up there was one such group of kids who were selected for an "elite" travel team at age 9. Those kids played together as one group all the way through h.s. One made D1 (backup), a few made J.C. ball and the rest fell to the wayside.
Any parent is kidding themselves if they think getting their kid onto an elite 8-10 y.o. squad will give him an advantage. Ages 12-13 maybe. Ages 14-15 definitely.
The only ways to achieve greatness in this game is through talent, hard work and heart.
I would ask Bum, Jr. nearly every day after practice if he still loved the game. "Yes," he would say. My next question is whether he would do what it takes to reach the top. "Yes," he would say. And there he was, in the middle of winter 5-6x a week year-round, training for the thaw of spring. That's what it takes. Maybe not so much the 5-6x a week in Winter but the heart.
That the talent would eventually come was icing on the cake.
Bum,
I was looking at some of the many Team Photo "Thanks Coach" plaques I have hanging on my office wall last week. It's amazing to look at the pictures of my kids from T-Ball, early basketball years, and yes...even Sockker. One photo plaque caught my eye, it was a Team Photo from my son's first travel team at age nine, a 10U team. Looking at the kids in the picture, here's a breakdown of who's moving on and continuing to play beyond HS:
4 will be playing D1 baseball this season
1 will be attending a D1 in Utah and going on a Mission his Frosh year and will hopefully walk on when completed
1 will be playing at a D2
1 will be playing at a D3
4 will be playing at a JC (3 of them at the same school)
1 will be playing his senior year in high school (parents held him back)
2 will NOT be playing...Yes only two of the fourteen kids in the photo.
This team was together for the 10U and most of the 11U Travel Season before typical politics and other issues split the team. It's amazing that 10 of the 14 kids will be on a college baseball field in 2012. There are only two kids in that team picture that are not playing anymore. One stopped playing ball at age 13 or 14? The other player was hurt in a skateboard accident before the HS season last year. Prior to the injury he was receiving serious interest from D1 schools. Apparently he's not interested in rehabbing and continuing his baseball career and is already in his second week at a Big West school as a student only. He was a very good hitter (good rating from PG), but sometime in the last couple of years he lost the Love for the game.
I responded to your post because there are some travel teams (I wouldn't call this one "Elite") that had kids that were successful because of Talent, Hard Work, Heart, and the Love for the game. I feel fortunate to be one of the coaches and dad's that watched these little guys at a young age, and now I'll be following them in college...Pretty Cool Stuff.