TravelBallCoach- What level of coaching is the highest that you've experienced to enable you to form strong enough opinions such as this? Because in my experience as a player from tee-ball to college ball, I have witnessed quite the contrary to what you presented in your post. In fact, I'd be able to make a strong case that what I've experienced is quite literally the exact opposite of everything that you said.
In fear of piling on, I have to disagree with TravelballCoach as well.
I reject the idea that (1) you can tell who is naturally going to be a great player by the age of 12 and (2) that the hitting and throwing mechanics of kids are set by the age of 12.
I have seen several instances where a big 12 year old has been projected to be some kind of superstar only to see him fall off when he fails to grow more than three inches in the next four years. Likewise I've seen some 5'1 twelve year olds turn into out and out studs once puberty kicks in. the simple fact is that no one can definitively predict physical maturity or mental desire in the average 12 year old.
We have a kid staying with us now (playing college summer league ball) that by his own admission was short, and relatively weak until his junior year in high school. He got a 50% D1 scholarship his senior year because he matured into a fantastic SS in the next two years. But he said he was lousy his first couple of years in high school.
I have also seen too many instances where players have been able to correct mistakes in their swings or improve their throwing motion after the age of 12. My son saw one of those kids on the mound in summer ball just a week ago. When he played with my son as a 12 year old the kid had a quirky side arm delivery that would just as likely hit a batter than get over the plate. Over the year he worked with a respected local pitching instructor and he is a new pitcher.
If there was no fixing issues with swings after 12 then major league clubs wouldn't have hitting instructors on staff. Using your logic no one over 12 should take up golf.
There are advantages to travel ball, maybe even at a younger age. Some kids take to it but I reject the idea that putting your kid on a travel team at an age under 12 will necessarily mean he will have an advantage over any other 12 year old. The reality is that once puberty kicks in, once all the distractions of being a teenager kick in and once all the other smaller kids start catching up many times things start to equalize. At that point it is up to the kid that works harder, puts in the reps and is willing to give up the idea of a full time summer job/serious girlfriend at 14 and hours of playing video games all summer. That kid will have an advantage.
I reject the idea that (1) you can tell who is naturally going to be a great player by the age of 12 and (2) that the hitting and throwing mechanics of kids are set by the age of 12.
I have seen several instances where a big 12 year old has been projected to be some kind of superstar only to see him fall off when he fails to grow more than three inches in the next four years. Likewise I've seen some 5'1 twelve year olds turn into out and out studs once puberty kicks in. the simple fact is that no one can definitively predict physical maturity or mental desire in the average 12 year old.
We have a kid staying with us now (playing college summer league ball) that by his own admission was short, and relatively weak until his junior year in high school. He got a 50% D1 scholarship his senior year because he matured into a fantastic SS in the next two years. But he said he was lousy his first couple of years in high school.
I have also seen too many instances where players have been able to correct mistakes in their swings or improve their throwing motion after the age of 12. My son saw one of those kids on the mound in summer ball just a week ago. When he played with my son as a 12 year old the kid had a quirky side arm delivery that would just as likely hit a batter than get over the plate. Over the year he worked with a respected local pitching instructor and he is a new pitcher.
If there was no fixing issues with swings after 12 then major league clubs wouldn't have hitting instructors on staff. Using your logic no one over 12 should take up golf.
There are advantages to travel ball, maybe even at a younger age. Some kids take to it but I reject the idea that putting your kid on a travel team at an age under 12 will necessarily mean he will have an advantage over any other 12 year old. The reality is that once puberty kicks in, once all the distractions of being a teenager kick in and once all the other smaller kids start catching up many times things start to equalize. At that point it is up to the kid that works harder, puts in the reps and is willing to give up the idea of a full time summer job/serious girlfriend at 14 and hours of playing video games all summer. That kid will have an advantage.
IMHO... Very little to nothing your kid will do on the small youth field will matter when transferring to the high school/college field. If he's got a competitive nature and knows the game with proper offensive and defensive fundamentals, he will be fine... The few things that can be beneficial to a player that plays travel ball is getting the early experience of the routine of tournament play, or being coached early by a highly experienced coach (MLB, NCAA experience only sorry Dads, you may 'know' the game, but you don't know as much as these guys - PERIOD) that can instill confidence... My son played on some of the highest ranked teams in the nation according to USSSA rankings and TravelBallSelect.com, it was a great experience, but in retrospect unnecessary, and had very little influence in the player he is today. In the end, there is NO replacement for talent, size, strength, reps, determination, commitment and passion. If he's good enough, THEY WILL more than likely find him, and HE WILL PLAY!!
Good luck!
Good luck!
My son didn't start travel ball until he was 12. After two complete seasons of travel ball my opinion is that he is 2 to 3 yrs ahead of ball players in our small town that have just played league ball.
By "ahead" I mean my son has acquired situational awareness, what to do and where to be, in game situations.
However I would contribute more of the improvement to the quality of coaching and quality of practices than to the high level of competition.
No doubt playing really good teams has taught my son to elevate his game.
I saw the contrast when 13 yo son played on a 17U high school summer team for a double header.
By "ahead" I mean my son has acquired situational awareness, what to do and where to be, in game situations.
However I would contribute more of the improvement to the quality of coaching and quality of practices than to the high level of competition.
No doubt playing really good teams has taught my son to elevate his game.
I saw the contrast when 13 yo son played on a 17U high school summer team for a double header.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
In fear of piling on, I have to disagree with TravelballCoach as well.
I reject the idea that (1) you can tell who is naturally going to be a great player by the age of 12 and (2) that the hitting and throwing mechanics of kids are set by the age of 12.
I have seen several instances where a big 12 year old has been projected to be some kind of superstar only to see him fall off when he fails to grow more than three inches in the next four years. Likewise I've seen some 5'1 twelve year olds turn into out and out studs once puberty kicks in. the simple fact is that no one can definitively predict physical maturity or mental desire in the average 12 year old.
Wklink, you are on a roll! Son played Babe Ruth with a kid of small stature, he didn't mature until college and now drafted in 26th round. He was a good fielder but by no means would I have predicted him being drafted at that time.
My son who is now 14 played LL and also TB since he was 12. I think paying TB under some very good coaching has prepared him well for HS. He was clearly ahead of the other freshman this year in the HS summer league. It was noticeable in his approach to hitting and his field awareness. As far as believing TB is necessary, I do not, but it does have its advantages. I truly believe if my son did not play TB he would not be having the success he is having now (played up with varsity all summer). Like most have said if a kid has talent he will be noticed, TB just accelerates the learning process not the natural ability.
I thought I made it perfectly clear that there are exceptions. I went to extreme lengths in my original post to emphasize that I am talking about a trend and not an absolute. However, to say that you can’t tell at 12 years old who are going to be some of the best players in high school is in direct contradiction to everything I’ve seen. I’m not talking about the early maturing 12u kids; I’m talking about real talent. You can see real talent even at that age (Bryce Harper is a popular example). Most of the kids on the best USSSA rosters from several years ago are now going to D1 programs or pro (with a little work, you can verify this yourself). My point is that a very high percentage of the best of the best from then are still among the best of the best now. Having coached in some of the best tournaments in America for years, I’m talking about a huge sample size.
I also said that mechanics CAN be improved at older ages, but they are extremely hard to change at older ages. I don’t think any coach would say otherwise. It is easy to change a stance, but the actual swing process is a completely different animal. That is why I believe that every effort should be made to improve mechanics at a young age (playing good competition can help with that). Otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle.
Even if you disagree with everything I’ve said, there are still very legitimate reasons to be involved with travel baseball at young ages. The most important reason is that the kids absolutely love it. The popularity of travel ball indicates that.
I also said that mechanics CAN be improved at older ages, but they are extremely hard to change at older ages. I don’t think any coach would say otherwise. It is easy to change a stance, but the actual swing process is a completely different animal. That is why I believe that every effort should be made to improve mechanics at a young age (playing good competition can help with that). Otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle.
Even if you disagree with everything I’ve said, there are still very legitimate reasons to be involved with travel baseball at young ages. The most important reason is that the kids absolutely love it. The popularity of travel ball indicates that.
quote:Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
I saw the contrast when 13 yo son played on a 17U high school summer team for a double header.
You have to be joking?
Great post by jemaz and others.
I think that TBC is not a new poster, I would also like to know his background and what ages he coaches.
quote:Originally posted by TravelBallCoach:
I thought I made it perfectly clear that there are exceptions. I went to extreme lengths in my original post to emphasize that I am talking about a trend and not an absolute. However, to say that you can’t tell at 12 years old who are going to be some of the best players in high school is in direct contradiction to everything I’ve seen. I’m not talking about the early maturing 12u kids; I’m talking about real talent. You can see real talent even at that age (Bryce Harper is a popular example). Most of the kids on the best USSSA rosters from several years ago are now going to D1 programs or pro (with a little work, you can verify this yourself). My point is that a very high percentage of the best of the best from then are still among the best of the best now. Having coached in some of the best tournaments in America for years, I’m talking about a huge same size.
I also said that mechanics CAN be improved at older ages, but they are extremely hard to change at older ages. I don’t think any coach would say otherwise. It is easy to change a stance, but the actual swing process is a completely different animal. That is why I believe that every effort should be made to improve mechanics at a young age (playing good competition can help with that). Otherwise, you are fighting an uphill battle.
Even if you disagree with everything I’ve said, there are still very legitimate reasons to be involved with travel baseball at young ages. The most important reason is that the kids absolutely love it. The popularity of travel ball indicates that.
Three responses:
1. You really cannot tell who the best players will be in the end until you get to a full-sized field. Yes, a lot of the best players at 12 will be among the best players later, but more of the best players at 12 will disappear than you think.
2. The worst part of travel baseball (which I agree is great fun) is the sense of entitlement it builds in many, many parents. They get their son on a team, where he plays a lot and has success and they come to believe that he somehow has thus earned a spot on the high school varsity. Nothing could be further from the truth.
3. Little League has the best sense of community that I have ever experienced. You say All Stars was the best part of LL. I say no way. The best part was going to the field every night and watching evenly matched teams compete and cheering on kids who were a part of our every-day lives. Sometimes the best baseball is not the best baseball.
TravelBallCoach- I personally hope you realize that we are not trying to "gang up" on you by any means, we are just simply responding to your post. While I disagree with your post, I think you were very insightful and well-thought out. I hope you choose to stick around and provide the boards with more insight on such topics, as conversations like these are only healthy.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
I saw the contrast when 13 yo son played on a 17U high school summer team for a double header.
You have to be joking?
Great post by jemaz and others.
I think that TBC is not a new poster, I would also like to know his background and what ages he coaches.
I usually smile when I'm joking. Did you see me smiling?
I don't think my son is exceptional when comparing against other competitive ball players his age in travel ball.
However when my son played on a 60/90 field his first time a few weeks ago he showed game awareness in situations where at least half the team wasn't sure what to do.
He actually caught one game and demonstrated that he was able to block the ball efficiently and provide the pitcher a comfort zone that increased strike proficiency. And my son is the BACKUP catcher on his travel team.
So yeah travel ball when coupled with good coaching can progress a talented kid years ahead of regular league players.
Of course it doesn't hurt that my son is 5'-10", 165 lbs at age 13.
quote:Originally posted by J H:
TravelBallCoach- I personally hope you realize that we are not trying to "gang up" on you by any means, we are just simply responding to your post. While I disagree with your post, I think you were very insightful and well-thought out. I hope you choose to stick around and provide the boards with more insight on such topics, as conversations like these are only healthy.
Baseball forums are always skewed towards the anti-travel baseball point of view. I just like to bring a little balance to the discussion. I don’t want people who are new to baseball to only get one side of the argument.
I know how much I enjoyed playing travel baseball and how much my players have enjoyed it. Many of them are doing well in high school and will likely get the opportunity to play college baseball. Whether playing travel baseball from 8-12 had anything to do with that or not is debatable (as evident in this thread), but I honestly don’t think they wasted their time and money. As long as the players enjoy it and they continue to get better, I don’t plan to stop coaching travel baseball. In my opinion, it has improved the level of baseball over the past decade or so.
quote:Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
Of course it doesn't hurt that my son is 5'-10", 165 lbs at age 13.
Obviously your son is physically maturing earlier than others, so for him the transition at his age may be easier, maybe better coaching at this point and time has something to do with it as well.
Come back in a few years when everyone else has caught up and tell us that what he did in TB under 12 helped him get a college scholarship.
Were we supposed to be impressed that he is 13 playing with 17U, because to me that is not an indication that he will be better as he gets older.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
I think that TBC is not a new poster
In a way, you are correct. I posted here several years ago when the hitting debates were going strong. It has been so long, that it was easier just to register a new username (I don’t remember the old password or even the old email address I used). However, I highly doubt you remember me because I sure don’t remember you.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
Of course it doesn't hurt that my son is 5'-10", 165 lbs at age 13.
Obviously your son is physically maturing earlier than others, so for him the transition at his age may be easier, maybe better coaching at this point and time has something to do with it as well.
Come back in a few years when everyone else has caught up and tell us that what he did in TB under 12 helped him get a college scholarship.
Were we supposed to be impressed that he is 13 playing with 17U, because to me that is not an indication that he will be better as he gets older. Were we supposed to be impressed that he is 13 playing with 17U, because to me that is not an indication that he will be better as he gets older.
JMO.
Well the coaches on the team he played for was impressed as was I. I didn't know how it would turn out but it vindicated the expense of travel ball. Now he's only played 2 yrs of travel ball.
It is an indication that at the moment he will be able to perform on a 60/90 field as long as he maintains the drive and work ethic.
And I could have taken almost anyone on his tournament team and put them in his place on the 60/90 and they would have performed very similar. Remember, I consider my son an average player on his tournament team.
I just want to make sure you can breathe on the bottom of the pile before I jump on. This isn't your typical baseball board of dads with experience all the way up to 12U. This board is full of parents whose son's are playing high school, college and pro ball. A majority of the regualars son's are at least at the college level.quote:Originally posted by TravelBallCoach:
Baseball forums are always skewed towards the anti-travel baseball point of view. I just like to bring a little balance to the discussion. I don’t want people who are new to baseball to only get one side of the argument.
I know how much I enjoyed playing travel baseball and how much my players have enjoyed it. Many of them are doing well in high school and will likely get the opportunity to play college baseball. Whether playing travel baseball from 8-12 had anything to do with that or not is debatable (as evident in this thread), but I honestly don’t think they wasted their time and money. As long as the players enjoy it and they continue to get better, I don’t plan to stop coaching travel baseball. In my opinion, it has improved the level of baseball over the past decade or so.
Experience tells us you are wrong. But, there isn't a perfect answer. In New England Legion is still strong. In other parts of the country it's dying. My son did not grow up in NE. He grew up in SE PA. LL was his primary game as a preteen. He played community travel the two summers his LL all-star team didn't play into August. Rec ball falls apart at 13U. Legion is soft. My son played travel exclusively starting at 13U. So I believe travel is the answer starting at 13U.
It is true most of the better players by high school were the better players in the preteen years. But not all of them. I also saw preteen, early bloomer 13U and 14U dominating studs not improve after age fourteen. Others gained on them physically and proceeded to play a better game.
The travel debate is chicken and egg. Does travel make the baseball player? Or is are the better players attracted to the competition in travel? I believe travel attracts the better players. Players improve by getting the best instruction regardless of rec, travel or training center. I genuinely hope you're not implying travel coaching from 8U to 14U is any better than rec coaching. I've seen some real clowns coaching travel.
While I don't believe travel made the player, in my son's case competing at the travel level from 13-15 years old had him more prepared for high school ball. He saw a lot of 80+ before high school in travel. He went into high school ball believing he belonged.
quote:Originally posted by TravelBallCoach:quote:Originally posted by J H:
TravelBallCoach- I personally hope you realize that we are not trying to "gang up" on you by any means, we are just simply responding to your post. While I disagree with your post, I think you were very insightful and well-thought out. I hope you choose to stick around and provide the boards with more insight on such topics, as conversations like these are only healthy.
Baseball forums are always skewed towards the anti-travel baseball point of view. I just like to bring a little balance to the discussion. I don’t want people who are new to baseball to only get one side of the argument.
I know how much I enjoyed playing travel baseball and how much my players have enjoyed it. Many of them are doing well in high school and will likely get the opportunity to play college baseball. Whether playing travel baseball from 8-12 had anything to do with that or not is debatable (as evident in this thread), but I honestly don’t think they wasted their time and money. As long as the players enjoy it and they continue to get better, I don’t plan to stop coaching travel baseball. In my opinion, it has improved the level of baseball over the past decade or so.
I don't think the group is anti-travel ball. Most of our kids have played travel/select ball. Mine is doing it now as well as playing Legion. I have nothing against travel ball/select baseball.
I think the main contention is with the insinuation that you made that kids that don't play travel ball, especially at a young age, will be developmentally behind other players. My argument is that there are too many factors involved that can alter that belief.
What honestly bothers me is when you hear people make comments like, 'If your 8 year old doesn't start getting serious about his baseball future now then he won't be ready by high school'. My son heard it at 9, when he was literally striking out every kid he faced in his first years in PONY.
If it is about going out and playing in different areas at different parks and meeting new kids then great, go for it. If parents have the money and the time then have at it. It can and should be a positive experience for both parents and kids. As long as the team is ultimately about having fun and meeting friends there is nothing wrong with it.
But often I see parents scraping by so their kids can play simply because someone has told them that they HAVE to get the kid into some super competitive league at the age of 8. It isn't true.
Lets face reality, on a great 10U travel team, out of 15 kids, probably 1/3 will be playing baseball their senior year. Some teams may have more, some less but by the time these kids reach the last year of high school many will not be playing. Girlfriends, jobs, desire for a car, or just plain getting tired of the game will make a vast majority of even really good junior ballplayers leave. The kids that want to play baseball in high school are the ones that will see it through to their senior year because the WANT to do it and are willing to put in the extra work. Paying 2500 dollars for a 10U team will not change that.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:quote:Originally posted by TravelBallCoach:quote:Originally posted by J H:
TravelBallCoach- I personally hope you realize that we are not trying to "gang up" on you by any means, we are just simply responding to your post. While I disagree with your post, I think you were very insightful and well-thought out. I hope you choose to stick around and provide the boards with more insight on such topics, as conversations like these are only healthy.
Baseball forums are always skewed towards the anti-travel baseball point of view. I just like to bring a little balance to the discussion. I don’t want people who are new to baseball to only get one side of the argument.
I know how much I enjoyed playing travel baseball and how much my players have enjoyed it. Many of them are doing well in high school and will likely get the opportunity to play college baseball. Whether playing travel baseball from 8-12 had anything to do with that or not is debatable (as evident in this thread), but I honestly don’t think they wasted their time and money. As long as the players enjoy it and they continue to get better, I don’t plan to stop coaching travel baseball. In my opinion, it has improved the level of baseball over the past decade or so.
I don't think the group is anti-travel ball. Most of our kids have played travel/select ball. Mine is doing it now as well as playing Legion. I have nothing against travel ball/select baseball.
I think the main contention is with the insinuation that you made that kids that don't play travel ball, especially at a young age, will be developmentally behind other players. think the main contention is with the insinuation that you made that kids that don't play travel ball, especially at a young age, will be developmentally behind other players. My argument is that there are too many factors involved that can alter that belief.
What honestly bothers me is when you hear people make comments like, 'If your 8 year old doesn't start getting serious about his baseball future now then he won't be ready by high school'. My son heard it at 9, when he was literally striking out every kid he faced in his first years in PONY.
If it is about going out and playing in different areas at different parks and meeting new kids then great, go for it. If parents have the money and the time then have at it. It can and should be a positive experience for both parents and kids. As long as the team is ultimately about having fun and meeting friends there is nothing wrong with it.
But often I see parents scraping by so their kids can play simply because someone has told them that they HAVE to get the kid into some super competitive league at the age of 8. It isn't true.
Lets face reality, on a great 10U travel team, out of 15 kids, probably 1/3 will be playing baseball their senior year. Some teams may have more, some less but by the time these kids reach the last year of high school many will not be playing. Girlfriends, jobs, desire for a car, or just plain getting tired of the game will make a vast majority of even really good junior ballplayers leave. The kids that want to play baseball in high school are the ones that will see it through to their senior year because the WANT to do it and are willing to put in the extra work. Paying 2500 dollars for a 10U team will not change that.
I know of a coach, whose players are 4 yrs ahead of my 13 yo, that is a great coach who built a practice field by his house and practice his league players 2 hrs for 3 days / week minimum. The team was good. According to one of the kid's dad, who is now my boss, they had to play a few TB tournaments to encounter the competition that would make them better.
So, depending on the level of competition available, I believe TB can put kids, developmentally, ahead of their peers. I know it has for my son.
Of course it depends upon the level of the TB tournament you can compete. In Triple Crown and USSSA there are AA, AAA, and Majors level. I've seen AA teams that looked like the best a local league could offer.
Perhaps all of this can be summed up in one question.
"Why is a young kid playing the game and who is he playing it for?"
"Why is a young kid playing the game and who is he playing it for?"
Coaching and instruction at young ages are like anything in youth sports. The quality may vary regardless of the brand name. It's possible to get the worst coaching in travel. It's possible to get the best coaching in rec ball. It's the people behind the team who make the difference.
We took a different approach. We never really relied on any coach to train our son. We expected the coach to manage the team and create opportunities to schedule games providing our son exposure to those responsible for recruiting for the next level.
We did expect typical drills to enhance the training that he did receive. The repetion of ground balls, the BP and situational hitting. The long toss to develop arm strength.
All these items were a byproduct of playing Little League, or AAU, or High School Ball, or College Ball and Summer College Ball.
But, the training my son received over the years was done by me until he was 11 years old. I put him against the outfield fence and threw hundreds of balls each session short hopping him, making him dive, drawing blood from his nose if he missed the ball.
It was me who built the soft toss screen in the back yard and tossed hundreds of balls at a time each day to help him develop his natural swing.
Fathers are the key to the development of their son's skills. That is why it is so difficult for those from broken homes to make their way in the sport. It is a skill oriented sport. A lot of repetition is required for a young boy eventually a young man to achieve his potential.
When my son got to the point at the age of 11 where it was clear to me he had a love for the game and had skills that were beyond my ability to further enhance, I found professional trainers to work with him. From the time he was 11-22 he had 2 trainers. Denny Doyle of the Doyle Academy, and Dave Kent of the Hitting Zone. Dave was an Alumni of the Doyle Academy and sent us to Denny. So, both trainers were on the same page.
But the point is, my son was trained by trainers, and we located teams for him to play on so he could take the training he received and utilize it in game situations.
I guess there are travel ball coaches out there who are gifted with the knowledge and ability to effectively train players. But the route we went was to find the best trainers available, and then find the best teams in our area where he could play.
We did expect typical drills to enhance the training that he did receive. The repetion of ground balls, the BP and situational hitting. The long toss to develop arm strength.
All these items were a byproduct of playing Little League, or AAU, or High School Ball, or College Ball and Summer College Ball.
But, the training my son received over the years was done by me until he was 11 years old. I put him against the outfield fence and threw hundreds of balls each session short hopping him, making him dive, drawing blood from his nose if he missed the ball.
It was me who built the soft toss screen in the back yard and tossed hundreds of balls at a time each day to help him develop his natural swing.
Fathers are the key to the development of their son's skills. That is why it is so difficult for those from broken homes to make their way in the sport. It is a skill oriented sport. A lot of repetition is required for a young boy eventually a young man to achieve his potential.
When my son got to the point at the age of 11 where it was clear to me he had a love for the game and had skills that were beyond my ability to further enhance, I found professional trainers to work with him. From the time he was 11-22 he had 2 trainers. Denny Doyle of the Doyle Academy, and Dave Kent of the Hitting Zone. Dave was an Alumni of the Doyle Academy and sent us to Denny. So, both trainers were on the same page.
But the point is, my son was trained by trainers, and we located teams for him to play on so he could take the training he received and utilize it in game situations.
I guess there are travel ball coaches out there who are gifted with the knowledge and ability to effectively train players. But the route we went was to find the best trainers available, and then find the best teams in our area where he could play.
"Fathers are the key to the development of their son's skills"
So true ! Well said floridafan
Here in San Diego County it's very easy to meet guys who played college,minor,or major league baseball.They are everywhere. All of the ones that I've ever met had something in common.Their dads spent a lot of time throwing BP,hitting grounders,playing catch,and helping their boy(s) become the best players they can be.
So true ! Well said floridafan
Here in San Diego County it's very easy to meet guys who played college,minor,or major league baseball.They are everywhere. All of the ones that I've ever met had something in common.Their dads spent a lot of time throwing BP,hitting grounders,playing catch,and helping their boy(s) become the best players they can be.
quote:Fathers are the key to the development of their son's skills. That is why it is so difficult for those from broken homes to make their way in the sport. It is a skill oriented sport.
I sure don't like to do this, but this seems a bit over the top, to me. I just don't feel anyone can make these types of judgments and conclusions, especially knowing there are so many Mom's, some single parents, doing everything they can do to guide and support their son.
I am a Dad. Our son went a very different path.
As I posted many years ago, I give credit, and lots of it, to his HS coach, his college coaches and his college Summer Wood bat league coaches.
I acknowledge I could be wrong, but I just don't think what happens through ages 12-13 make the difference, or any major difference, in how a player competes and succeeds if he is still playing at age 18-21.
Its okay infielddad, if you think I am over the top that is fine, I did not intend to be that way. I believe more accurately as you do, that everyone has their own path, and regardless of that path if the passion and desire to improve exist in that young athlete, they can go very far in the game that they love.
I see the "broken home" issue affecting some of the players on our team.
When mommy is dragging around her new boyfriend and little johnny knows that's not his Dad, it can screw up a kid mentally.
A few parents have done this on our team.
When mommy is dragging around her new boyfriend and little johnny knows that's not his Dad, it can screw up a kid mentally.
A few parents have done this on our team.
I scanned through this ...there is a lot here, however wanted to bring up a how it evolved in our area.
SELECT started first (8-9). This was a way to cut players who didn’t match up and when teams decided to add a few weekend tournaments to the normal league play. Eventually league play became practice for tournaments. Tournaments started off all in town with 1 or two out of town gradually adding more and more were out of town vs local.
Travel ball (9-12): This became the norm after your team played most of your tournaments out of town, little if any league play. Coaches still decided paths, usually teamed up with a facility to help reduce costs.
Select Travel Ball (12+) / Elite: Now teams played ONLY tournaments but training was added during the season with a little in front of the season. Teams now managed by companies and a few free off season batting cages were thrown in. “Gets you ready for Baseball”. You pay all fees to company. Some coaches are paid, you can add additional training at additional cost. Cost significantly more – sponsorships / fundraisers required.
HS / Travel / Elite / etc (14+): Now year round training at their facility with their coaches. Additional conditioning plus baseball specific skills. CORPORATIONS now prepare your child according to their plan / age group. Most tournaments are outside your area (thinking is go to the college coaches). Significant investments required, not only for the training but for the 10-12 weeks of on the road baseball.
Sitting back and watching this evolve was funny….The first Select Teams were the bomb! Everyone was just scared to play them. When other started seeing the potential money, companies popped up overnight to partake. Some teams were well guided and stayed with it. Others just saw $$$ and took those willing to pay “to take yoru son to the next level”. Many of these eventually lost following. We even had swindlers come in and promise the world only to take your money and deliver little in return. We went through a very confusing time where quality was extremely diluted due to the high number of teams, no one was any good. In the end, a structure was worked out were some teams (companies) folded, others stayed and we are building back quality teams.
Now did we did we do this….yes. At first, it was for fun. We wanted more out of a summer (not because we have a MLB player) but we wanted to do something than just play at the local fields against the local teams. As this grew, expenses grew and justification was a little harder but it was still fun, adventure, with a little more.
However at 7th / 8th / HS grades things became serious (program costs). We knew 90% of the kids that were going to tryout for HS were doing these so we got in a catch 22, you have to do this to compete. Once HS hit, the “Winter Prep” gets Jr ready for Spring HS baseball to be ready on Day 1 – well ahead of any others not in programs like these. If you don’t make your HS team what do you do when all the other players are playing daily for 2-3 months and your waiting….
Sorry so long but endless spiral. If we could do it over again we would change things…Yes. Do we think the money we put into all this will result in a college scholarship / MLB contract that will be a positive return on our investment – more than likely not (I’m a realist and the odds are not in anyone’s favor)….
However I didn’t want to regret saying “I should have done this he would have been a star”….Although I might be saying “A better investment might have been”….
In the end, keep it real, keep it fun and ensure your doing this for the right reasons, not just because others are. Make sure its what Jr wants and try to enjoy it…..it won’t last forever!
SELECT started first (8-9). This was a way to cut players who didn’t match up and when teams decided to add a few weekend tournaments to the normal league play. Eventually league play became practice for tournaments. Tournaments started off all in town with 1 or two out of town gradually adding more and more were out of town vs local.
Travel ball (9-12): This became the norm after your team played most of your tournaments out of town, little if any league play. Coaches still decided paths, usually teamed up with a facility to help reduce costs.
Select Travel Ball (12+) / Elite: Now teams played ONLY tournaments but training was added during the season with a little in front of the season. Teams now managed by companies and a few free off season batting cages were thrown in. “Gets you ready for Baseball”. You pay all fees to company. Some coaches are paid, you can add additional training at additional cost. Cost significantly more – sponsorships / fundraisers required.
HS / Travel / Elite / etc (14+): Now year round training at their facility with their coaches. Additional conditioning plus baseball specific skills. CORPORATIONS now prepare your child according to their plan / age group. Most tournaments are outside your area (thinking is go to the college coaches). Significant investments required, not only for the training but for the 10-12 weeks of on the road baseball.
Sitting back and watching this evolve was funny….The first Select Teams were the bomb! Everyone was just scared to play them. When other started seeing the potential money, companies popped up overnight to partake. Some teams were well guided and stayed with it. Others just saw $$$ and took those willing to pay “to take yoru son to the next level”. Many of these eventually lost following. We even had swindlers come in and promise the world only to take your money and deliver little in return. We went through a very confusing time where quality was extremely diluted due to the high number of teams, no one was any good. In the end, a structure was worked out were some teams (companies) folded, others stayed and we are building back quality teams.
Now did we did we do this….yes. At first, it was for fun. We wanted more out of a summer (not because we have a MLB player) but we wanted to do something than just play at the local fields against the local teams. As this grew, expenses grew and justification was a little harder but it was still fun, adventure, with a little more.
However at 7th / 8th / HS grades things became serious (program costs). We knew 90% of the kids that were going to tryout for HS were doing these so we got in a catch 22, you have to do this to compete. Once HS hit, the “Winter Prep” gets Jr ready for Spring HS baseball to be ready on Day 1 – well ahead of any others not in programs like these. If you don’t make your HS team what do you do when all the other players are playing daily for 2-3 months and your waiting….
Sorry so long but endless spiral. If we could do it over again we would change things…Yes. Do we think the money we put into all this will result in a college scholarship / MLB contract that will be a positive return on our investment – more than likely not (I’m a realist and the odds are not in anyone’s favor)….
However I didn’t want to regret saying “I should have done this he would have been a star”….Although I might be saying “A better investment might have been”….
In the end, keep it real, keep it fun and ensure your doing this for the right reasons, not just because others are. Make sure its what Jr wants and try to enjoy it…..it won’t last forever!
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
Its okay infielddad, if you think I am over the top that is fine, I did not intend to be that way. I believe more accurately as you do, that everyone has their own path, and regardless of that path if the passion and desire to improve exist in that young athlete, they can go very far in the game that they love.
floridafan,
I might be a bit too sensitive to the issue.
I more than respect the efforts and support you have provided your son. Those efforts and support have obviously been meaningful, for each of you and more than successful based on the college career and early transition to Milb. Nothing can take away from that journey, those efforts and the results.
For the last 4 years, we have been mentoring a young man who is now a 13 year old. His father chose to leave and has not been part of the home for a number of years.
These last 4 years have created new impressions as well as different and sometimes unusual or challenging experiences for me.
For reasons which certainly can vary, it seems like too many children are like our mentee because of the decisions of adults who are also parents.
The struggles and support, for our mentee, from his mother and grandmother are nothing short of inspirational. Those struggles and the extent of that support was what I, perhaps clumsily, attempted to post. My apology. I did not want to come off judgmental or harsh. In re-reading, I can see where I probably did.