Ex-Yankee pitcher: I could not have competed in the majors naturally
http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/politi/index.ssf?/base...589124280.xml&coll=1
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Another good link. Thanks.
Thanks.
Pushed by his parents and coaches. Looking for the paycheck. I suppose this the motivation for most of the players who used. Sound like he underwent some very serious side effects - I hope he is pysically healed now. He is still working on the mental healing.
Pushed by his parents and coaches. Looking for the paycheck. I suppose this the motivation for most of the players who used. Sound like he underwent some very serious side effects - I hope he is pysically healed now. He is still working on the mental healing.
That why they call it cheating. It is at the expense of someone who was honest.
But he looked across the clubhouse that day and spotted the pitcher he beat out. He saw another reliever, named Mike Trombley, a guy who, unlike Naulty, was not filling his veins with steroids. Trombley was headed to the minors, and as he packed up his locker, tears rolled down his face.
Naulty had stolen a job from an honest man. Trombley would go to Triple A and take a job from someone else, who would take a spot in Double A. The dominoes would keep falling, more clean players pushed away from their dreams as Naulty achieved his unfairly. This was the thought that haunted Dan Naulty at the moment he was supposed to celebrate.
My friends who play college ball say they see it in college as well.
Guys who add muscle and performance over a couple weeks. One day they are normal and a couple weeks later they are muscled up and pounding the ball.
But he looked across the clubhouse that day and spotted the pitcher he beat out. He saw another reliever, named Mike Trombley, a guy who, unlike Naulty, was not filling his veins with steroids. Trombley was headed to the minors, and as he packed up his locker, tears rolled down his face.
Naulty had stolen a job from an honest man. Trombley would go to Triple A and take a job from someone else, who would take a spot in Double A. The dominoes would keep falling, more clean players pushed away from their dreams as Naulty achieved his unfairly. This was the thought that haunted Dan Naulty at the moment he was supposed to celebrate.
My friends who play college ball say they see it in college as well.
Guys who add muscle and performance over a couple weeks. One day they are normal and a couple weeks later they are muscled up and pounding the ball.
I think the motivation goes much deeper for some.
For many players baseball is who they are.They have spent their life time being identified by what they do... play baseball. If they can't play baseball, who are they??
Players start working on the dream as children,If they make it to pro ball its 24/7. They live it and everything else comes 2nd. Think of all the family events holidays etc that you would miss from Feb thru Sept and for minor leaguers there is fall and winter leagues.
They have given so much and work so hard to follow this dream that they continue to do what ever it takes to stay in baseball.
I know there is a great deal of money in baseball for those who make it.... But I really don't think that is the motivation for most players.
For many players baseball is who they are.They have spent their life time being identified by what they do... play baseball. If they can't play baseball, who are they??
Players start working on the dream as children,If they make it to pro ball its 24/7. They live it and everything else comes 2nd. Think of all the family events holidays etc that you would miss from Feb thru Sept and for minor leaguers there is fall and winter leagues.
They have given so much and work so hard to follow this dream that they continue to do what ever it takes to stay in baseball.
I know there is a great deal of money in baseball for those who make it.... But I really don't think that is the motivation for most players.
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
I think the motivation goes much deeper for some.
For many players baseball is who they are.They have spent their life time being identified by what they do... play baseball. If they can't play baseball, who are they?
I agree with you. That's why it is so very important to have so many other things going on in your life other than baseball.
I don't always agree with the advice, work your butt off, to be the best you can be, I often wonder what type of message that actually sends to young players. Expectations become so high, when they are not met, what steps will a person take to live out the expectations placed upon them by themselves or others.
The ironic thing is that he had to have had the talent to get where he was in the first place, but obviously impatient or afraid he would have to wait longer, or not make it at all. The same with injuries, in this game you have to face up to your injuries and how far you will go until it's time to let it go. Sooner or later it becomes an obsession, and I am wondering how much obsessive personalities played in ones decision to cheat or not cheat. JMO.
As strange as it sounds, we have always had very little discussion about baseball when son is around, it's just not important. He also understands that if things don't work out, it's ok with us and I think he feels that way also.
I also agree with njbb. My son also put BB first. He just loved the game but even more I think he felt special when he played. He wanted to succeed and to be on a team. The thing is he can keep playing for years around here in competitive ball. One of his teammates in summer ball was 42 years old and still playing well. Several were 30ish. 2 even played in the World Cup for Great Briton.
The thing is that these kids as they grow up their priorities change. My son reads books, has a girl friend and wants to work. These are all new to him. He still loves BB but only time will tell if he is chasing a dream or not.
The thing is that these kids as they grow up their priorities change. My son reads books, has a girl friend and wants to work. These are all new to him. He still loves BB but only time will tell if he is chasing a dream or not.
The worst internal feeling I have ever experienced is when I doubted that I had given my best effort and failed. It created a rage inside me, mad at myself.
At 16 years old, I experienced a catastrophic injury and reconstructive surgery (1975). Having been a gym rat my whole life, I had no idea what other people did...none. Consequently I tried to come back from my injury too early, and wound up having the same reconstruction twice in 10 months.
The point is, that the loss of lifestylye is devastating. The willingness to maintain it or get it back can really overwhelm a person who has known nothing else his whole life. When mired in a situation of immenent or continued despair or given a way out, we don't always see things in the rational, cold light of day. It's only in reflection do we see the error of our ways.
I don't condone bad decisions, but having made a few, I understand a little about how it happens.
At 16 years old, I experienced a catastrophic injury and reconstructive surgery (1975). Having been a gym rat my whole life, I had no idea what other people did...none. Consequently I tried to come back from my injury too early, and wound up having the same reconstruction twice in 10 months.
The point is, that the loss of lifestylye is devastating. The willingness to maintain it or get it back can really overwhelm a person who has known nothing else his whole life. When mired in a situation of immenent or continued despair or given a way out, we don't always see things in the rational, cold light of day. It's only in reflection do we see the error of our ways.
I don't condone bad decisions, but having made a few, I understand a little about how it happens.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I also agree with njbb. My son also put BB first. He just loved the game but even more I think he felt special when he played. He wanted to succeed and to be on a team. The thing is he can keep playing for years around here in competitive ball. One of his teammates in summer ball was 42 years old and still playing well. Several were 30ish. 2 even played in the World Cup for Great Briton.
The thing is that these kids as they grow up their priorities change. My son reads books, has a girl friend and wants to work. These are all new to him. He still loves BB but only time will tell if he is chasing a dream or not.
It's important to have balance in your life. My husband is a workaholic, he just passed his test for his RIA and now going to take another course for his series 7, he doesn't stop and it sometimes takes a toll. I gave up on him trying to find a balance, but at close to 60 he is getting better at letting up. He has that obsessive personality always trying to out do himself and get better. I think a lot comes from his childhood experiences.
My son on the other hand shows very little obsession in just about most he has ever done, yet has been successful. He is more competitive than anything else. Baseball has been a part of his life, not his life. If he was obsessive about it, I would be worried.
njbb raises a great point. i would guess more players are like this than not,don't even realize it. i think to make it to the pro level in a sport you need to be driven. which can be consuming,it can become who they are. i know when people ask about my son ,thats what they ask about. no different than throwing yourself into your work?
tpm
don't take this the wrong way ,but it sounds like you have the perfect son. your very fortunate that he is. you can expose kids to other things ,but you can't make them love them. again i meant no disrespect tpm.
it reminds me of the movie mr. baseball. something like,( i've been a baseball player my whole life....even before i was a baseball player, i was a baseball player.) that says a lot. it can be who they are. makes you think , who are we?
tpm
don't take this the wrong way ,but it sounds like you have the perfect son. your very fortunate that he is. you can expose kids to other things ,but you can't make them love them. again i meant no disrespect tpm.
it reminds me of the movie mr. baseball. something like,( i've been a baseball player my whole life....even before i was a baseball player, i was a baseball player.) that says a lot. it can be who they are. makes you think , who are we?
20dad,
I am not sure what your remark has to do with this thread.
There is no way I have the perfect son. He has had his share of getting into trouble, doing things he shouldn't have (glad he went to college first)
often indulges more than he should on certain things, has his very lazy moments, he's just, IMO, a pretty well rounded individual.
If you sat down with son for an hour, you most likely would walk away never knowing he is a baseball player. He very rarely will tell strangers that, because he doesn't define his life by baseball. I think that is a healthy attitude and for him he does not want to be defined as to who he is by baseball.
I think that was njbb's point of her post.
Some people define success by how much time you have spent on working towards a goal. If that's true, it doesn't fit here. He's most likely spent less time preparing for baseball than you could ever imagine. It's now up to him, not us, to decide how hard he wants it, and I hope that he never feels the need to cheat to do it.
There's a difference between being driven to be successful and obsessive.
I am not sure what your remark has to do with this thread.
There is no way I have the perfect son. He has had his share of getting into trouble, doing things he shouldn't have (glad he went to college first)
often indulges more than he should on certain things, has his very lazy moments, he's just, IMO, a pretty well rounded individual. If you sat down with son for an hour, you most likely would walk away never knowing he is a baseball player. He very rarely will tell strangers that, because he doesn't define his life by baseball. I think that is a healthy attitude and for him he does not want to be defined as to who he is by baseball.
I think that was njbb's point of her post.
Some people define success by how much time you have spent on working towards a goal. If that's true, it doesn't fit here. He's most likely spent less time preparing for baseball than you could ever imagine. It's now up to him, not us, to decide how hard he wants it, and I hope that he never feels the need to cheat to do it.
There's a difference between being driven to be successful and obsessive.
It is important to have other interest but once the season starts there is little time for anything else but baseball.
Position players play most every game of the season, their other interests are eating and sleeping
Position players play most every game of the season, their other interests are eating and sleeping
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
It is important to have other interest but once the season starts there is little time for anything else but baseball.
Position players play most every game of the season, their other interests are eating and sleeping
I agree, folks don't realize, baseball season is 24/7, so enjoy other interests while you can.
.
I'd take njbb's thoughts beyond baseball...
The messages that society/mass media often sends are that we are WHAT we have achieved(titles, career, celebrity..)and WHAT we have(money, cars, houses...) rather than WHO it is we are. At some level we are being told on a regular basis that unless we reach these society delineated goals that we are not worthy. Is it any wonder that players and people judge themselves and by those standards? Is it any wonder many of us take whatever means necessary to acheive them?
At it's best sports is the greatest teacher of life lessons a young person can have. At worst it is a mightmare childhood that sets young people up for a big fall later. Many fail to realize that sports is not an end in and of itself. If that hard work and effort and emphsis leads to college ball or a professional career so be it. But it is a very tough numbers game...one that the vast majority are bound to lose...but in the end if the goal is to teach life lessons and through those lesosns create better human beings, more humanity, and happiness then every player, and every family can succeed and win. That is our choice and our responsibility.
44
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I'd take njbb's thoughts beyond baseball...
The messages that society/mass media often sends are that we are WHAT we have achieved(titles, career, celebrity..)and WHAT we have(money, cars, houses...) rather than WHO it is we are. At some level we are being told on a regular basis that unless we reach these society delineated goals that we are not worthy. Is it any wonder that players and people judge themselves and by those standards? Is it any wonder many of us take whatever means necessary to acheive them?
At it's best sports is the greatest teacher of life lessons a young person can have. At worst it is a mightmare childhood that sets young people up for a big fall later. Many fail to realize that sports is not an end in and of itself. If that hard work and effort and emphsis leads to college ball or a professional career so be it. But it is a very tough numbers game...one that the vast majority are bound to lose...but in the end if the goal is to teach life lessons and through those lesosns create better human beings, more humanity, and happiness then every player, and every family can succeed and win. That is our choice and our responsibility.
44.
44,Good post.
tpm
i wouldn't call my post a remark, as in my mind that means a derogatory statement.that wasn't my intention,i meant no disrespect.it was meant as a compliment. your son sounds that he has a handle on his life ,baseball or not. and most 21 yr olds don't.
as njbb said they become baseball players,and some are defined by what they do, same as an architect ,doctor etc,.
i am sorry if you took it another way. i thought i was adding to the thread,didn't mean to get off base.
i wouldn't call my post a remark, as in my mind that means a derogatory statement.that wasn't my intention,i meant no disrespect.it was meant as a compliment. your son sounds that he has a handle on his life ,baseball or not. and most 21 yr olds don't.
as njbb said they become baseball players,and some are defined by what they do, same as an architect ,doctor etc,.
i am sorry if you took it another way. i thought i was adding to the thread,didn't mean to get off base.
20dad,
No problem, thanks.
FYI, he's 22.
No problem, thanks.
FYI, he's 22.
The best that one can hope for as a parent is that your son gets the "opportunity" to "prove" himself "worthy".
The problem that "steroids" creates is its effect on the outcomes of the "opportunity".
My son is playing collegeball now and he has achieved the "opportunity" that he hoped to achieve but he knows that the results in wins and losses will not always be a true reflection of the "natural skills" of the players in the games.
My hope for all players in collegeball is that they realize that the best thing they can do for themselves is graduate and plan a life after college that does not have anything to do with baseball.
The criminals are running the asylum and the playing fields have an odor, a stench that we all know is ruining the game for the "honest" and the "straight" players.
JMO
The problem that "steroids" creates is its effect on the outcomes of the "opportunity".
My son is playing collegeball now and he has achieved the "opportunity" that he hoped to achieve but he knows that the results in wins and losses will not always be a true reflection of the "natural skills" of the players in the games.
My hope for all players in collegeball is that they realize that the best thing they can do for themselves is graduate and plan a life after college that does not have anything to do with baseball.
The criminals are running the asylum and the playing fields have an odor, a stench that we all know is ruining the game for the "honest" and the "straight" players.
JMO
quote:My hope for all players in collegeball is that they realize that the best thing they can do for themselves is graduate and plan a life after college that does not have anything to do with baseball.
It's probably advisable to pursue what makes you happy, gives you confidence, contributes to society and provides a living wage, if need be. If that involves playing baseball without PED's, that's ok with most folks. If it involves coaching at some level, so be it. I think it's understood that playing the game ends for most with plenty of life to live. It can still be enjoyed for a lifetime though.
I think you should pursue the next base. And when you get it - pursue the one after that.
You should also pursue being a good person - getting an education - having alot of good friends - eating well - and breathing.
You should also pursue being a good person - getting an education - having alot of good friends - eating well - and breathing.
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Exactly.
First I'd submit that in the end it is about character and values as much as the asylum or the culture. You have to decide and define for yourself not others, what your boundries are and in the process, exactly WHO you are. What you stand for. Are you willing to go to the mat with your values if need be. OR are you about WHAT. What others value. What others see. What others want you to be. WHATever it takes.
And while I do believe in taking action against PED's...Often you cannot control or modify the culture you are in. When it comes to MLB it is clear that the inmates have indeed been running the asylum for well over a decade. The good news is that no matter what the culture you can define for yourself who you are, what you will tolerate and where your boundaries are.
And I'd sadly submit that the same "value check" will be found beyond baseball. I see it regularly in business. One of the first jobs beyond college that I had, it became clear to me that most of those who were successful bent the moral and legal rules. It was the culture. It was what they did, and they were wildly successful in a conventional sense because of it. One day in a moment of clarity, I realized that I could conform and bend the rules as they all did and likley become very successful (and likely no one would ever know), or I could hold to my values and seriously risk failure, likley be seen as loser, but know for certain who I was and what it was I stood for. It was my choice.
Many of our son's have already lost positions, innings and PT to illegally enhanced players....They will lose jobs and Kudo's to those who operate on insider information and bend the moral and legal rules. Maybe someday our culture will have greater respect and appreciation for the integrity those who will not play the game by "dirty" rules no matter what their income, celebrity, success, outcome, toys may be. I do.
44
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quote:The best that one can hope for as a parent is that your son gets the "opportunity" to "prove" himself "worthy".
The problem that "steroids" creates is its effect on the outcomes of the "opportunity".
My son is playing collegeball now and he has achieved the "opportunity" that he hoped to achieve but he knows that the results in wins and losses will not always be a true reflection of the "natural skills" of the players in the games.
My hope for all players in collegeball is that they realize that the best thing they can do for themselves is graduate and plan a life after college that does not have anything to do with baseball.
The criminals are running the asylum and the playing fields have an odor, a stench that we all know is ruining the game for the "honest" and the "straight" players.
Exactly.
First I'd submit that in the end it is about character and values as much as the asylum or the culture. You have to decide and define for yourself not others, what your boundries are and in the process, exactly WHO you are. What you stand for. Are you willing to go to the mat with your values if need be. OR are you about WHAT. What others value. What others see. What others want you to be. WHATever it takes.
And while I do believe in taking action against PED's...Often you cannot control or modify the culture you are in. When it comes to MLB it is clear that the inmates have indeed been running the asylum for well over a decade. The good news is that no matter what the culture you can define for yourself who you are, what you will tolerate and where your boundaries are.
And I'd sadly submit that the same "value check" will be found beyond baseball. I see it regularly in business. One of the first jobs beyond college that I had, it became clear to me that most of those who were successful bent the moral and legal rules. It was the culture. It was what they did, and they were wildly successful in a conventional sense because of it. One day in a moment of clarity, I realized that I could conform and bend the rules as they all did and likley become very successful (and likely no one would ever know), or I could hold to my values and seriously risk failure, likley be seen as loser, but know for certain who I was and what it was I stood for. It was my choice.
Many of our son's have already lost positions, innings and PT to illegally enhanced players....They will lose jobs and Kudo's to those who operate on insider information and bend the moral and legal rules. Maybe someday our culture will have greater respect and appreciation for the integrity those who will not play the game by "dirty" rules no matter what their income, celebrity, success, outcome, toys may be. I do.
44.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
You have to decide and define for yourself not others, what your boundries are and in the process, exactly WHO you are. What you stand for.
When you open a brokerage account, the companies make you fill out a questionaire. It's designed so that you and they may assess your risk tolerance...how much risk you are willing to take with your money. It's great to have theories and ideals about it, but the reality is that no one really knows what their risk tolerance is, until they've exceeded it. If they lose money and sleep well, then they haven't reached it, but at the point when sleep is hard to come by as the financial losses continue to mount, then we know we've passed the tolerance threshold. It's a life lesson and like most life lessons, learned from experience.
Our society today is very intolerant of learning through experience, we think we should be an, "I told you so" society of finger pointers. Tolerance is the ability to allow someone the mistake to gain the requitsite experience to be a complete person. What that person does after that experience is what defines him, not before.
In relation to the essence of this post, the experience for the individual was watching another suffer from his own transgression. What he did with that experience is what defines him, not the original transgression.
quote:itsinthegame posted: I think you should pursue the next base. And when you get it - pursue the one after that.
Bingo...you are out if you don't get to the next base, but it doesn't mean you didn't play well.
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Big proponent of learning by experience. You cannot know for certain what your values are, or how strongly they are held until you have put the verbaled/proposed ones to the test of temptation.
44
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quote:....It's a life lesson and like most life lessons, learned from experience.
Our society today is very intolerant of learning through experience, we think we should be an, "I told you so" society of finger pointers. Tolerance is the ability to allow someone the mistake to gain the requitsite experience to be a complete person. What that person does after that experience is what defines him, not before.
Big proponent of learning by experience. You cannot know for certain what your values are, or how strongly they are held until you have put the verbaled/proposed ones to the test of temptation.
44.
Great link! At least Naulty is able to own up like a man- and admit to his idiocy. And if he, his parents, and coaches all knew what was going on and urged him to continue for the paycheck, then how many "I took, but I didn't know what it was" guys are actually telling the truth. Probably a number close to 0.
This article (I was only able to view the first page) really said it nicely- he stole the job and chance of many ballplayers, who had a pure love for the game.
However, this case is much different than those of Bonds, McGuire, etc. because these guys were going to play no matter what- they just became absolute beasts.
I never even realized just how much steroids is killing the game. At least, for the honest ones who play it.
God**** steroids.
This article (I was only able to view the first page) really said it nicely- he stole the job and chance of many ballplayers, who had a pure love for the game.
However, this case is much different than those of Bonds, McGuire, etc. because these guys were going to play no matter what- they just became absolute beasts.
I never even realized just how much steroids is killing the game. At least, for the honest ones who play it.
God**** steroids.
Yes Bonds etc would have played because of their talent but for how long? With out the steroids and hgh they would have been out of the game earlier, so they kept younger players from taking their place.
When Tom Brady was asked about his NFL accomplishments his response was, "There has to be more to life than this." That's a role model for balance of life. Football is his focus. But it obviously doesn't consume him.quote:For many players baseball is who they are.They have spent their life time being identified by what they do... play baseball. If they can't play baseball, who are they??
Well, yes, but in Brady's case he was referring to super models.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Well, yes, but in Brady's case he was referring to super models.
That would explain the imbalances in my life...lack of supermodels!
Why does the title have to say "Ex-Yankee pitcher"??? Wasn't he with the Twins? 