paragraph 3 and 4 should be fine reading for you
http://www.cagw.org/media/wast...-sector-compensation
http://www.governing.com/gov-i...sation-pensions.html
"The national debate over public pensions raises a number of key issues, including fairness, transparency, the proper role of government and the sanctity of the free market. The bottom line, however, is the bottom line: Are public-sector workers making out better than their private-sector counterparts? The answer, according to a new model of private-versus-public-sector lifetime compensation, is yes."
there are hundreds of examples just look around.
ironhorse posted:old_school posted:jacjacatk posted:old_school posted:my brother is a teacher, works hard does great job. makes a good solid income, top rate at 90k for a job with tenure and a pension is that is so it good it is bankrupting the state funds....all I am saying is they, being public employees, should pay for their own debt like every other profession.
The thought that public employees are unpaid is factually incorrect, you can do the research for yourself but it is true. The compensation curve changed years ago and is actually accelerating the other way.
The idea that front-line teacher pay/benefits is bankrupting states is ludicrous. Teacher retention is a huge problem in a lot of areas, especially in STEM, which is good evidence that pay/benefits are too low in those places, as is the fact that there aren't tons of people jumping at the opportunity to fill those jobs.
Just like a lot of public goods, where there's no obvious profit in providing them, it's easy to dismiss/vilify teachers.
Not in mine brother, 30 years and retire at 90 percent pension for the rest of your life....it is sweet heart of deal that nobody could ever get again. Our district has 100 plus applicants for 6 or 8 jobs a year. almost all of the new full timers spend a year or 2 as full time sub to get in the door. as long as you show up and make an effort it the safest job you could get with good money at the top and lifetime pension...so they could at least pay their own college bills...like everyone else.
I do the love the sorry story but it doesn't hold water.
It doesn't hold water where you live. Which is obviously the only place in America.
hmmm you should try searching before you type....
old_school posted:ironhorse posted:old_school posted:jacjacatk posted:old_school posted:my brother is a teacher, works hard does great job. makes a good solid income, top rate at 90k for a job with tenure and a pension is that is so it good it is bankrupting the state funds....all I am saying is they, being public employees, should pay for their own debt like every other profession.
The thought that public employees are unpaid is factually incorrect, you can do the research for yourself but it is true. The compensation curve changed years ago and is actually accelerating the other way.
The idea that front-line teacher pay/benefits is bankrupting states is ludicrous. Teacher retention is a huge problem in a lot of areas, especially in STEM, which is good evidence that pay/benefits are too low in those places, as is the fact that there aren't tons of people jumping at the opportunity to fill those jobs.
Just like a lot of public goods, where there's no obvious profit in providing them, it's easy to dismiss/vilify teachers.
Not in mine brother, 30 years and retire at 90 percent pension for the rest of your life....it is sweet heart of deal that nobody could ever get again. Our district has 100 plus applicants for 6 or 8 jobs a year. almost all of the new full timers spend a year or 2 as full time sub to get in the door. as long as you show up and make an effort it the safest job you could get with good money at the top and lifetime pension...so they could at least pay their own college bills...like everyone else.
I do the love the sorry story but it doesn't hold water.
It doesn't hold water where you live. Which is obviously the only place in America.
hmmm you should try searching before you type....
Yet my school hasn't had a Spanish teacher for two years because no one has even applied for the job. And this year, no foreign language teachers at all because the German teacher retired and no one has applied for that job either. Add to that my wife has to take care of 22 severely developmentally disabled high school Special Ed kids because no one has applied for the open spot in Special Education. But, she does pull down 31 big ones a year.
old_school posted:jacjacatk posted:old_school posted:my brother is a teacher, works hard does great job. makes a good solid income, top rate at 90k for a job with tenure and a pension is that is so it good it is bankrupting the state funds....all I am saying is they, being public employees, should pay for their own debt like every other profession.
The thought that public employees are unpaid is factually incorrect, you can do the research for yourself but it is true. The compensation curve changed years ago and is actually accelerating the other way.
The idea that front-line teacher pay/benefits is bankrupting states is ludicrous. Teacher retention is a huge problem in a lot of areas, especially in STEM, which is good evidence that pay/benefits are too low in those places, as is the fact that there aren't tons of people jumping at the opportunity to fill those jobs.
Just like a lot of public goods, where there's no obvious profit in providing them, it's easy to dismiss/vilify teachers.
Not in mine brother, 30 years and retire at 90 percent pension for the rest of your life....it is sweet heart of deal that nobody could ever get again. Our district has 100 plus applicants for 6 or 8 jobs a year. almost all of the new full timers spend a year or 2 as full time sub to get in the door. as long as you show up and make an effort it the safest job you could get with good money at the top and lifetime pension...so they could at least pay their own college bills...like everyone else.
I do the love the sorry story but it doesn't hold water.
Well sure, 'cause "your area" is clearly the bellwether for the profession and the education system in the US in general.
Anyway, quit your job and do your 30 if it's such a sweetheart deal. And feel free to name the district, I've posted mine and anyone who wants can do the math for themselves if they want to apply, turnover's definitely an issue in that district.
Oh, and, http://www.sourcewatch.org/ind...te_for_Public_Policy. You can always move to Kansas where they're cutting taxes and pulling money from the school and highway funds to cover the shortfalls. Or are there actual benefits to living in Connecticut?
I guess this why the federal government shouldn't make broad rules for the entire country where they aren't needed....it is a local and a state issue not federal. No matter how you want to look at it I am correct on this because of pesky facts!
old_school posted:No matter how you want to look at it I am correct on this because of pesky facts!
Impressive, if ironic, argument.
jacjacatk posted:RJM posted:roothog66 posted:old_school posted:ironhorse posted:That's awesome. I'm guessing this is something your state does? I can't find any federal program like that, and nothing in Texas. I could use that help.
Awesome is word for it, as a taxpayer who doesn't work for the government I would probably use a different term...just sayin
Well, we bitch and moan about the quality of teachers and how they are underpaid, but we do nothing about it. This is how we draw more qualified people into the field. I guess the school district could just up property taxes more, but then only homeowners would be paying for better teachers.
Teacher pay is awful. Starting pay in our district out of college is $51K. PhD+ is over $100K. A teacher commented they earn every penny dealing with know it all parents. I once got irritated dealing with the know it all (We know what's best for your child more than you do. We're trained for this.) teachers and advisors.
Citation needed.
Even ignoring cost of living, the US top decile is around $90K and median is about $56K (http://money.usnews.com/career...chool-teacher/salary), and the vast majority of teachers earning at that level have at least a Master's. New York and a couple of other NE states lead the US in teacher pay, and while it's certainly possible that the numbers you cite are correct for one of those areas, the COL is markedly higher there as well.
Here's the district I worked in last year, http://www.fultonschools.org/e...20Salary-Teacher.pdf. Assuming you can get a job in that district straight out of school (not a given), starting bachelor's pay is $44K and with 25 years in and a PHD you don't get to $100K, and that's one of the better paying districts in GA, which all things considered isn't a terrible place to be a teacher.
I did 15 years in the normal corporate world, and made more 15 years ago than I do now. Teaching is substantially more actual work than any of the corporate jobs I've held, though the side benefits of doing that work within a school year schedule are nice, especially with school age kids, and I actually find teaching far more enjoyable. I would invite anyone who thinks it's "easy" or whatever to man up and quit their existing job and join us.
http://www.mcall.com/news/nati...y-map-htmlstory.html
If the school district drop down didn't stay look up Lower Merion School District. It's the top paying district in the state. Our district is within $5K of all of their teacher numbers.
After you designate the school district you have to find the little gray dot and click on it. If you have trouble finding LM it's to the left of Philadelphia.
jacjacatk posted:old_school posted:my brother is a teacher, works hard does great job. makes a good solid income, top rate at 90k for a job with tenure and a pension is that is so it good it is bankrupting the state funds....all I am saying is they, being public employees, should pay for their own debt like every other profession.
The thought that public employees are unpaid is factually incorrect, you can do the research for yourself but it is true. The compensation curve changed years ago and is actually accelerating the other way.
The idea that front-line teacher pay/benefits is bankrupting states is ludicrous. Teacher retention is a huge problem in a lot of areas, especially in STEM, which is good evidence that pay/benefits are too low in those places, as is the fact that there aren't tons of people jumping at the opportunity to fill those jobs.
Just like a lot of public goods, where there's no obvious profit in providing them, it's easy to dismiss/vilify teachers.
My wife is a good example. As a degreed engineer, she re-entered the workforce as a math teacher 2 yrs ago, after 25 yrs raising kids, and has now taken a position as an engineer with the federal government. Her salary immediately jumped 1.6 times her teacher salary with much more upward mobility.
RJM posted:jacjacatk posted:RJM posted:roothog66 posted:old_school posted:ironhorse posted:That's awesome. I'm guessing this is something your state does? I can't find any federal program like that, and nothing in Texas. I could use that help.
Awesome is word for it, as a taxpayer who doesn't work for the government I would probably use a different term...just sayin
Well, we bitch and moan about the quality of teachers and how they are underpaid, but we do nothing about it. This is how we draw more qualified people into the field. I guess the school district could just up property taxes more, but then only homeowners would be paying for better teachers.
Teacher pay is awful. Starting pay in our district out of college is $51K. PhD+ is over $100K. A teacher commented they earn every penny dealing with know it all parents. I once got irritated dealing with the know it all (We know what's best for your child more than you do. We're trained for this.) teachers and advisors.
Citation needed.
Even ignoring cost of living, the US top decile is around $90K and median is about $56K (http://money.usnews.com/career...chool-teacher/salary), and the vast majority of teachers earning at that level have at least a Master's. New York and a couple of other NE states lead the US in teacher pay, and while it's certainly possible that the numbers you cite are correct for one of those areas, the COL is markedly higher there as well.
Here's the district I worked in last year, http://www.fultonschools.org/e...20Salary-Teacher.pdf. Assuming you can get a job in that district straight out of school (not a given), starting bachelor's pay is $44K and with 25 years in and a PHD you don't get to $100K, and that's one of the better paying districts in GA, which all things considered isn't a terrible place to be a teacher.
I did 15 years in the normal corporate world, and made more 15 years ago than I do now. Teaching is substantially more actual work than any of the corporate jobs I've held, though the side benefits of doing that work within a school year schedule are nice, especially with school age kids, and I actually find teaching far more enjoyable. I would invite anyone who thinks it's "easy" or whatever to man up and quit their existing job and join us.
http://www.mcall.com/news/nati...y-map-htmlstory.html
If the school district drop down didn't stay look up Lower Merion School District. It's the top paying district in the state. Our district is within $5K of all of their teacher numbers.
After you designate the school district you have to find the little gray dot and click on it. If you have trouble finding LM it's to the left of Philadelphia.
Well, that's COL living for you. For reference, my school last year was in 30004, and this year is in 30040, neither of which can hold a candle to 19041 (used that one for Haverford since the one landmark I recognized on that map was Bryn Mawr). Kind of surprised they start as low as $51K, given the numbers here, http://www.bestplaces.net/cost...ania/haverford/19041.
Are there more reasonable places to buy property in the vicinity? Everything here is sprawl, so there's lots of housing options depending on your tolerance for commuting, though it's much worse the closer you get to Atlanta.
jacjacatk posted:RJM posted:jacjacatk posted:RJM posted:roothog66 posted:old_school posted:ironhorse posted:That's awesome. I'm guessing this is something your state does? I can't find any federal program like that, and nothing in Texas. I could use that help.
Awesome is word for it, as a taxpayer who doesn't work for the government I would probably use a different term...just sayin
Well, we bitch and moan about the quality of teachers and how they are underpaid, but we do nothing about it. This is how we draw more qualified people into the field. I guess the school district could just up property taxes more, but then only homeowners would be paying for better teachers.
Teacher pay is awful. Starting pay in our district out of college is $51K. PhD+ is over $100K. A teacher commented they earn every penny dealing with know it all parents. I once got irritated dealing with the know it all (We know what's best for your child more than you do. We're trained for this.) teachers and advisors.
Citation needed.
Even ignoring cost of living, the US top decile is around $90K and median is about $56K (http://money.usnews.com/career...chool-teacher/salary), and the vast majority of teachers earning at that level have at least a Master's. New York and a couple of other NE states lead the US in teacher pay, and while it's certainly possible that the numbers you cite are correct for one of those areas, the COL is markedly higher there as well.
Here's the district I worked in last year, http://www.fultonschools.org/e...20Salary-Teacher.pdf. Assuming you can get a job in that district straight out of school (not a given), starting bachelor's pay is $44K and with 25 years in and a PHD you don't get to $100K, and that's one of the better paying districts in GA, which all things considered isn't a terrible place to be a teacher.
I did 15 years in the normal corporate world, and made more 15 years ago than I do now. Teaching is substantially more actual work than any of the corporate jobs I've held, though the side benefits of doing that work within a school year schedule are nice, especially with school age kids, and I actually find teaching far more enjoyable. I would invite anyone who thinks it's "easy" or whatever to man up and quit their existing job and join us.
http://www.mcall.com/news/nati...y-map-htmlstory.html
If the school district drop down didn't stay look up Lower Merion School District. It's the top paying district in the state. Our district is within $5K of all of their teacher numbers.
After you designate the school district you have to find the little gray dot and click on it. If you have trouble finding LM it's to the left of Philadelphia.
Well, that's COL living for you. For reference, my school last year was in 30004, and this year is in 30040, neither of which can hold a candle to 19041 (used that one for Haverford since the one landmark I recognized on that map was Bryn Mawr). Kind of surprised they start as low as $51K, given the numbers here, http://www.bestplaces.net/cost...ania/haverford/19041.
Are there more reasonable places to buy property in the vicinity? Everything here is sprawl, so there's lots of housing options depending on your tolerance for commuting, though it's much worse the closer you get to Atlanta.
I'm not sure how old the data is on the website you posted. It's says the average cost of a home in my town is $152K. The 2015 average cost is $408K. It's lists cons of urban decay and violent crime. It's where suburban meets rural. It has an incredible number of homes built in the past thirty years. It's been a regular on the FBI safest twins in America.
RJM posted:I'm not sure how old the data is on the website you posted. It's says the average cost of a home in my town is $152K. The 2015 average cost is $408K. It's lists cons of urban decay and violent crime. It's where suburban meets rural. It has an incredible number of homes built in the past thirty years. It's been a regular on the FBI safest twins in America.
It appears to be pulling current Trulia data, at least for my zip code, and eyeballing it the number looks right for me (median of 307K in my zip code). It has Haverford (19041) as $647K. Maybe it's sensitive to town or zip code boundaries? I'm not in the town that it thinks belongs to my zip code, for instance, and the median price for the town I'm actually closer to being in (next zip code over) is $243K.
roothog66 posted:Go44dad posted:pabaseballdad posted:Go44dad posted:Golfman25 posted:Go44dad posted:Golfman25 posted:I don't see the big deal about the kid being in debt and playing baseball. He's just like any other student and got to play a game he loved. Had he not been a baseball player, he probably would have the same issue. The number of college students in big time debt is unconscionable. Tuition keeps going up and up, and the pushers keep giving them money. Moral of the story is make sure your degree can support the payback of the debt. Not many can.
Debt is a big deal. And he is no longer playing baseball.
How is that different from average joe college student?
The monthly loan repayment is the same, baseball player or non sports playing student. In theory, the baseball player has a better support system around him? Maybe it was his choice.
It can be overcome and paid back. Sleep on a couch with four roommates in a cheap apartment, eat spaghetti every night for ten years, ride a bike to work. Sounds kinda like the minor leagues?
Teach your kids finance, and the time value of money.
I feel sorry for Marks, and other graduates with really high debt loads with degrees with low starting salaries.
Feel sorry for Marks? I feel sorry for whoever he competes with when he decides what it is he wants to do with his life! This kid had no business in a D1 baseball field. 5 ft 7. Terrible slap hitting swing. Below average arm. He is fast. I'll give him that. what he is is a winner. He's an animal. He had the gall to think he could walk on and make it at a d1 program when his only other option was point park in Pittsburgh. No one even knew him around here. Not only makes the team but leads them to the national championship ??? That can't happen. But it did. I have a feeling he's going to be fine. Id hire him in two seconds over a kid with a business degree from Harvard
I agree! But lion or lamb, payment is still $1300 a month.
Someone will hire him based on his competitiveness.
It would be nice to know more details, his story. But it's also his private story.
Here's where I never understand people when it comes to student loans. I hear these stories about kids making $30k a year with $1600/mo. student loan bills. They are either full of it or stupid. Anyone is eligible for payments based on income. Income based payments for someone making $30k to $40k per year will bring payments down below $100 a month. When your income goes up, your payments go up. Then, after 20 years, the rest can be forgiven. If you're a teacher or in public service it's much better. You can pay income driven payments for 10 years and have it forgiven then. Anyone paying those huge amounts is either making very good money are isn't smart enough to fill out an application for a payment based on income.
AS an FYI, As I read a bit more on this, There are more that qualify than just teachers and government. I am finding out about the non profit organizations that have a 501 (c) 3. my company qualifies as that, So I will be researching whether the parent plus loan I am currently paying on for my oldest son qualifies. Although honestly I think I will have paid off in "120 qualifying monthly payments". I seriously doubt that will be the case for my daughter who is entering college this year.