Feedback, advice etc please...

They should not be involved with any other team during the hs season. The hs coaches make the decisions on where kids play and what their roles will be. After the hs season ends then they can choose what they want to do. The parents and travel coaches need to step back and let the kids move on.

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They should not be involved with any other team during the hs season.

I respect your opinion. Of course I disagree. If school ball is the PRIORITY and the kid is not being over worked or taking anything away from the School team what is the harm? The truth is that with the financial situations many school districts find themselves in, most of the JV coaches if not all will be volunteers and may or may not have much coaching experience at all.

Not to mention the fact that these kids won't be getting almost any one on one instruction, UNLESS they get it from outside the school team. Remember we are talking JV level.

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The hs coaches make the decisions on where kids play and what their roles will be. After the hs season ends then they can choose what they want to do. The parents and travel coaches need to step back and let the kids move on.

I totally agree the coaches make the decisions on the players' positions and roles. I don't quite know where I posted that I didn't think that.

Sadly I'm slowly seeing many HS programs run into the ground...whether from lack of funding, booster involvement (more funding) and school districts being divided up seemingly by School Boards playing pin the tail on the donkey.

My son is lucky...he's slated to go to another local HS where the program has been getting stronger and stronger. I hope the trend continues (my worries reside with the school board) and I hope he continues to have the desire and work ethic to WANT to play at the next level...

13 yo doesnt have velocity to pitch JV. HS coach is right.

When the hs seasons ends and they are playing on the showcase team during the summer do they play on other teams during this time as well?

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I respect your opinion. Of course I disagree. If school ball is the PRIORITY and the kid is not being over worked or taking anything away from the School team what is the harm? The truth is that with the financial situations many school districts find themselves in, most of the JV coaches if not all will be volunteers and may or may not have much coaching experience at all.

I agree with Coach May on this one. The truth is that in every high school, some travel coach or parent thinks they know better than the high school coach or in this case the "less experienced" JV coach.

My advice is to relax. No one will be harmed imho. Let the high school coaches coach high school and let the kids/parents decide where they want to play in the summer. I am not suggesting that your assessment of the coach is incorrect btw. I am suggesting to let it go however even if that is true. Let these kids learn how to deal with it in their own right. It is part of learning how to progress in the game.

We are only talking about a three month period out of the entire year. Do what you want to do but I would stay out of this. Leave the hs season alone and the players alone during the hs season. Stay out of conversations about the coaches and program with the players and parents of the players.

Put yourself in those hs coaches shoes. How would you react to others saying the same thing about you and your program? What if a hot shot travel team and coach started working with your players during your season? And how would you feel if he was posting comments about you on a message board as well?

The goal of all of these kids I am sure is to eventually play varsity in this program and excell at that level for their school. Getting into the progam as a JV players is the beginning of that process. This will not end well for the players or parents of these players if they go in with a negative attitude about the coaches and program. You ask for the feedback so I am being as honest as I can be.

If your not careful you could end up on the most wanted list of these hs coaches. When some of these parents go back and talk to these hs coaches and some things get said etc etc. And the players end up doing the same thing. You may be providing much better instruction. It may be a much better baseball experience. That is not the point at all.

At least in california, playing on another team during the season makes the player ineligible for HS ball. Participation once ineligible would result in games being forfited by the high school team.

I'd let it go and simply form the team again in may or June.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
13 yo doesnt have velocity to pitch JV. HS coach is right.

Actually you'd be wrong on that one. On average a I might agree with you. This kid throws harder than all but maybe one of the returning JV kids. But that really has nothing to do with this post.

Not sure how anyone else feels about this, but young players on two teams should not be pitching on both. They have a lot of years in front of them and it's not necessary.
Here in FL you also cannot play two teams while playing HS ball.
You have been given some good advice from good coaches. I agree, stay out of it, be careful what you say, it may come back to bite you and that could hurt the kids, let the parents and players decide what they want to do.

I must be horrible at expressing things through a keyboard...or it's just reaction to the normal type of posts...

First off...I wholeheartedly support these kids going out for HS Ball. That SHOULD be the priority. I'm not looking to step in, hover, take over etc. Not at all.

Let me ask the SAME question a different way.

About 10 years ago I was asked to help Coach a 13-14 team. My kid wasn't playing (he was 3...unless the big fat bat counts....I wish he could use that now). One of the kids asked me to work with him one on one. I did that late Summer and Fall. He really took to it. Mom and Dad were not baseball people at all. This kid was a great natural athlete and just seemed to understand the game better than many more polished players.

We worked on fundamentals. Pitching mechanics. Throwing regimen, hitting etc etc. Nothing earth-shattering. The kid's confidence finally started growing and it showed on the field.

He made the JV team. I was super excited for this kid. He worked really hard and deserved it. The JV coach for his school made it clear he was to things his way. The kid called me and asked me what to do.
(Coach was telling him to change hitting style, pitching style etc). I gave this kid the same advice I was given long ago...

If you are CONFIDENT in how you are hitting, pitching etc AND you are GETTING RESULTS on the field...say YES SIR and to what the Coach tells you in practice,even if contradicts what you actually do when you are performing well.

In the game do what you know how to do. If you are getting results on the field...most times the coach will not mess with you. If you fail, be prepared to face the consequences for not doing things his way.

Some may agree, some may not. Most coaches are not going to mess with a player if he's successful...most coaches are only looking to build on and improve what's there. Some, as we all know, do things that defy explanantion. That's human nature. It's a part of all life, much less baseball.

Let me BE CLEAR here...I'm not talking disobeying a sign, a play etc. The big one with this kid was we'd worked and worked on getting him using the big muscles to hit the ball. It obviously worked as he was crushing the ball. In fact I WITNESSED the kid hit a BOMB in a JV game. This was not a pop fly...it was a line drive that just turned into a HR on a pitcher's mistake. (Lot's of those in most JV programs..being a grooved strike).

The kid was BENCHED by the Coach, because (and I quote the Coach) "you're trying to hit home runs I want base hits. You're not using you hands like I've shown you."

So what advice in that case?

And to add to this...I'm not a "Travel Snob" or against HS baseball AT ALL.

In fact if the kid was going to the other HS near him (if he lived a street over he'd be going to a different HS) this wouldn't even be an issue. Everyone I've met at that school has each kid's best interests at the forefront...not the "my way or the highway" approach.

And I should add that I told the person in question

"Don't sweat it. Work hard, hustle, and make the team. Everything else will work out."

Are you going to be able to coach these kids through high school, college and maybe even pro ball? The answer is nope - at some point you wil have to cut the strings and turn them over to another coach. You may be turning them over to a great coach or you may be turning them over to a terrible coach but either way you have no choice in the matter. These kids will need to learn to how to handle coaching from a different voice or perspective or philosophy. With this comes to potential for adversity in not so good coaching. Turn them loose and let them learn how to overcome that adversity.

You said in one of your posts that your job was to get them ready for HS ball and you have. Now turn them loose so they can perform in HS ball. Like Coach May said it's only about 3 months long so it's not going to hurt them too bad if they do end up with poor coaching. Plus it's not fair to anybody if they play on two teams. Who takes priority on games if there is a conflict? What happens if it becomes too physically demanding on a kid - which team loses out on the kid?

Also, let's say you are playing in a big weekend tournament and the kid playing on two teams takes a high inside fastball to the wrist and breaks a bone. How can that be fair to the HS team who now looses a good player and it had nothing to do with their team and vice versa. These kids are on teams with other players. Those other players are depending on that one kid to help them win. It's not fair to the kids on that team to lose a good player when it could have been avoided. Plus TPM is absolutely correct in a player should never pitch for two teams at once.

Doesn't sound to me like you need any advise on what to tell him.

5 other people on here have already told you that you should zip it and gleefully let the HS JV coach do his thing.

How fast does the 13 yo throw?

Coach you find yourself in a familiar situation. Many coaches have coached young players for years and assisted them in becoming good players prior to going into a hs program. The players and the coach build a special bond. The players trust you and your opinion. You want to look after these players that you have helped.

Every hs program does not offer the same things as far as coaching and instruction. Some kids experiences at the pre hs level is better as far as instruction and coaching. Some kids experiences at the pre hs level offers better competition than the JV level of baseball will offer. But hs baseball is a stepping stone in the ladder of baseball.

If you allow yourself to be a stumbling block in this situation you will be hurting these players development. Not in the instruction and learning of the actual game but in the learning of how to deal with the situations that they will have to learn to deal with as hs players. Players will come back to you and say "Coach they are trying to change my swing." "Coach can you believe they have Billy playing 1st base." "Coach Timmy is not pitching." "Coach they are telling me to field like this can you believe that?"

If you are not careful you can really hinder these kids and their development in your attempts to actually help them. You will reinforce their doubts about their coaches and end up in the end being a stumbling block to them. Just like someone would be if they were giving your players this shoulder to cry on when your season begins and your the coach. Players can figure all of this for themselves. But they never will if you are part of it during the hs season.

When the hs season starts get out of the way and let the boys find their own way and figure it out. Believe me they will. When your season starts coach them up and teach them to the best of your ability. When the hs season starts get out of the way and let them grow as young men in the game. The parents of these players will call you and cry on your shoulder as well. But only the ones that are not happy with their sons playing time , where they hit in the order or what posistion they are playing. The ones that are happy with the way things are going will not be calling.

If you get in the middle of this stuff you will be hurting those players that need to learn how to deal with with all of this. Its part of growing up in the game. Some hs programs offer kids great coaching and great instruction. And in those programs there are still players that are unhappy and looking for people to validate their excuses. Dont be this guy. Stay out of this one. "Boys I am not your coach right now. Get out there and work hard and do your best. I will see you after the season."

In our region we never have this problem. Anyone playing school ball is prohibited from working outside the program much less play on an outside team

In Utah a HS player cannot affiliate with another team from tryouts (this year March 1) until the end of the State Tournament in late May or he jeopardizes his eligibility.

From the original post, if this were occurring in Utah, no eligibilty problems would apply during the winter workouts if one were playing with the travel team, however it may not please the high school coach and could affect decisions made by the coach.

Just my $.02 worth.

My players stay together and I'm their "travel coach"....

One of my assistants is the "JV travel coach"...

No dads, no multiple instruction, no second guessing from daddycoaches or kids. Just my way. Might not be the best way.

I also learned this a long time ago, and I hope you aren't to this point already. The worse thing you as an adult can do is "badmouth" the "JV coach with no experience" to the kids. Will only create chaos and hurt the chemistry of the team. If you don't like him, act like you do in front of the kids.

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The JV "Assistant" coach made the rather loud announcement that once they are involved with the program (including Winter Workouts, before they have even made the team) they will not be involved with ANY other form of baseball until the season is over.

It's real simple. These are the rules.

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Several other kids that played on this JV team as 8th graders last year are freaked out, since they play local rec ball with their friends and several play travel. None of them are pitching tons of innings (two teams) and none of them have ever had a conflict issue between the two. School ball is ALWAYS the priority.

The kids have options. These are middle school kids. If they don't play JV ball in 8th grade is it going to impede their progress to varsity in the future?

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks Coach May...that post helped me realize that I need to take my own advice I give to the kids...Not to worry about things I can't control.

For the poster who asked how fast the kid throws...couldn't tell you exact speed. I can tell you he is bringing it...not to mention the more important part..his FB has a lot of late movement.

I guess I was venting more than anything. It is what it is.

RJM

The county we live in does not have MS baseball (all other sports but no football or baseball). The adjoining counties have both.

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Originally posted by RJM:
If they don't play JV ball in 8th grade is it going to impede their progress to varsity in the future?

If it was any of the other local schools I'd probably answer that with NO.

But this particular HS is a bit odd. I've seen plenty of cases of kids that should have made the team cut in favor of other kids because they knew this Coach or that person etc.

I also saw probably one of the best HS freshman players I've seen in years, not make the team. The kid played travel that year, the Dad got transferred (military) and the following season he made the Varsity (10th grader) at a very good baseball school, in a new town.

When the kid was cut, one of the assistant coaches confronted the head coach about it. He was told the kid didn't have the "Right stuff" for HS ball, and that since he was new (he'd only been in town a year or so) the other kids didn't "Bond" with him.

And yes I confirmed those exact words from the Coach. And the Coach who got that response walked away from that program and went to another school.

It goes without saying the school in question hasn't fielded a decent team in quite awhile.

It sounds like you've already committed alot of time/effort on good fundamentals and good competition to prepare your boys for the next level - HS ball. You are there now, or will be very soon, depending on the kid. Trust me, it may seem like a big deal now for the HS coach to say/do things that put 13/14 year old player's parents into a spin. But, it will be OK! Enjoy spring ball, summer will be here before you know it!

You are EXACTLY right, it IS what it IS! GED10DaD

I was wondering how an 8th grader can play high school baseball? Does he still have the 4 years of eligibility left to finish his senior year? I am from Michigan and have never heard of this before if some one could clue me in I would appreciate that. Thanks

1b coach: there are a handful of states that allow 8-12 HS participation.

I don't want to seak for other states but Kentucky allows students of any grade to participate in most sports. Contact sports like football and wrestling have restrictions but other than that you can go as low as you want to go.

When I was a head coach there my "Freshman" team was 7th, 8th and 9th graders and I've dressed a couple of 8th graders on varsity. But they only played in times I felt they could compete and be successful.

Not sure about this but I think it's because KY does not have classifications on most sports. Football has 6 classes but baseball and basketball do not have any and everyone plays for one state championship. So it's very conceiviable to have a team with 1500 students play a team with 400 kids K-12. So to help smaller schools field teams they let them go down into middle school grades to get players.

I have been told that in VA, a HS coach can NOT prevent a player from involvement with other teams or sports during the season (ex: a football player can play fall baseball or a kid could play both travel and HS baseball at the same time). NOTE: I do not know if there is any rule either way - just what I've been told. I'm sure there are some folks on this site who can provide the "real" answer for VA...

I KNOW that when my son's team was 14U, we had several kids who were HS freshmen that made their HS teams. Some Varsity and some JV. The JV players joined the travel team whenever they could (after practices or games, on weekends, etc.) even during the VA HS season. Those who made Varsity did not. I've seen that happen as well with other teams. I do know the Varsity coaches (those above and others I've spoken to) encouraged their kids to "not risk injury" by playing with another team during the HS season. I'm sure that JV coach could "find" a reason to cut the kid or keep the kid on the bench if he felt that his suggestions were ignored.

I'm not suggesting that they don't listen to the HS coach - rather I'm suggesting that there is no RULE against playing outside of HS ball, but that the kid might be taking too many risks to do it if the coach is of that opinion. If the parents still wanted him to play travel at the same time, I think a friendly conversation with the coach would be in order for them to be able to make the most informed decision. I'd also say that if he DOES pitch for HS and play for the travel team, you shouldn't expect to put him on the hill during the HS season.

JMHO...

TurnTwoNet in all honesty if I had a kid on my HS team and he felt the need to play travel ball he can do it all he wants. Just make sure my uniform and my stuff are clean when they turn it in. I truly believe it is wrong to let kids do this and it I think it's a completely selfish move.

This kid is making commitments to two teams that he can't fully keep to both - maybe one but definately not two. One team will have practice or a game at the same time as the other team so why make this kid choose and basically say "this team is more important"?

Plus think about the team mates. You got a kid named Frank who plays both HS and travel and he's a stud. Both teams depend on him to be a huge factor. On the HS team is a kid named Bobby who is not bad but he doesn't have a chance to go to college - he's a decent HS player. On the travel team you got a kid named Johnny that's basically in the same boat as Bobby. Both these guys depend on Frank who's a stud to win games and without Frank the team is much weaker. Frank is basically telling each guy "hey man we are team mates and I want you to be there for me and I'll be there for you.......unless something comes up with my other team." Frank has a bright future but this is it for Bobby and Johnny and they can possibly be cheated out of some great accomplishments in a TEAM sport and have great memories because the stud chose to go with the other team that day. It's wrong and I wish every state would adopt a rule that bans playing on two teams at once.

Im not saying pick HS over travel because all I'm saying is pick ONE or the other but not both. It's not fair to the teams or the player to be put in such a tough spot.

In Michigan you can not play on any other team at the same time in the sport that is in season, so travel ball starts at the end of high school. If your team makes it deep into the state finals you generally miss the first 2-3 weeks of summer ball on a scout team. Are big problem up here is the expectation of the players to particapate in other varsity sports (7 on 7 football and summer basketball )during the summer months that should be dedicated to baseball.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
TurnTwoNet in all honesty if I had a kid on my HS team and he felt the need to play travel ball he can do it all he wants. Just make sure my uniform and my stuff are clean when they turn it in. I truly believe it is wrong to let kids do this and it I think it's a completely selfish move.

Coach,

Please understand I was not suggesting right or wrong and I was not involved in any of the decisions with any of the families. I definitely understand where you're coming from and while I'd say it worked out well in the season I mentioned, the travel team definitely had to "survive" the HS season until those players rejoined full time. The travel team coach told each of those players that HS should be their priority, but that they were welcome anytime.

I was not the coach of any of those teams. Had it been my son with the option (it wasn't), I would probably have told him he needed to pick one or the other. The only part that I was trying to address was the rules as I have heard them in VA as compared to the actions of the coach. If the rules as I have heard them are correct, then the coach was in direct violation of the rule and I see that as an issue as well. Since ctandc lists VA as their location, I felt the info relevant to the discussion.

I'd also point out that he said "before they even made the team". This suggests the player who may or may not make the HS team cannot even workout with any other team during the winter. That potentially eliminates the player from any chance he has to play on the travel team in the event he does not make the HS team. I can definitely see a need for a rule specifying that any player on a HS team cannot participate in other team sports (same or other sport) during that season. But, as far as I know, the current rules are exactly the opposite. Either way, I don't think any rule should apply prior to the player being selected for the team.

Hope that explains it better...

I completely understand TurnTwoNet and I apologize if I came across harsh because that wasn't my intent. Kinda of a rough day at school and probably came across in my post but I do stand behind my point though.

I have no idea what the rules are in VA but from what I've read and stuff it seems like different parts of the state have different rules. I'm probably wrong on that but that's the way I read it. Rules need to be in place to protect teams and players. If there are places where they can play both at once you will find someone who overuses their pitchers. It might be on purpose or it might be because the player / parents don't tell the whole truth when the kid pitches. That in itself is why they need rules like this to keep them from being on two teams.

BUT there also needs to be rules in place that allow HS kids to play on summer / travel teams if that's what they want - mainly for better competition. Rules need to be passed by using logic but as we all know that isn't always the case.

No worries...I don't think I explained it well enough in my first post...

I'm in complete agreement about the pitching too...Too many coaches and families don't worry about potential pitching issues even if they only have one team to worry about!