Fingers off the seams???

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

Find a facility near you that has REV FIRE. Son trains at the Florida Baseball Ranch and REV FIRE is used to track spin rate and there.

To the above poster's point, we have yet to have a scout mention spin rate. Two main topics that come up are ALWAYS grades and velocity.

I would work on a third pitch if you feel he has command and control of  1 & 2. Change up comes to mind and/or cutter. 

wareagle posted:

Background:

Son is 2019 RHP. Velo - 84-86 last year hoping for a little bump up this year???

breaking ball spin rate 90th percentile per track man. 

Fatball spin rate 35th percentile. 

When I watch him pitch, these numbers appear to hold true. Lots of break on breaking ball and gets more ground balls than fly balls. So I assume he is getting more of a "heavy fastball". 

When looking at spin rate on his fast ball. I would assume that to be "top level". It needs to be in the top 80th percentile or the  bottom 20th percentile. 

Given his current numbers, it seems that it would be easier to try to lower the spin rate 15percent vs trying to raise it 45 percent.???

i read an article that suggested to lower spin rate you may be able to simply move the fingers off of the seams.  I don't want to mess  with his control and I dont have any way of knowing if this was reducing spin rate or not until he pitched using track man again. 

Any thoughts???

is there anywhere in Georgia that has a rental facilty that has track man or similar system available??

i am really intrigued with  spin rate, if anyone knows of other good articles. 

Thanks

I believe that a Georgia version of the Baseball Ranch will be opening soon in the Roswell area. Let me get the number and PM it to you. 

HShuler-thanks. Please do

He has a change up. When it good it's really good. When it's not, it's really not.  Still working on consistency.  His HS coaches are just starting to look at a cutter. They say it looks promising. We will see?

i really don't expect that anyone woul ask what his spin rate is. But from what I am reading, it can affect results. And coaches do see that.  I am not completely sold, and I am not ready to attempt major mechanical changes to try to improve spin rate. But if something as simply as changing the fastball grip could add a little more drop, then I would certainly be willing to have him try. I was curious if anyone had tried this with good or bad results.   

Thanks for the responses so far!

I read good things about FBR. Do they do anything specific to improve spin rates or just measure them?

Wareagle 

So far FBR is just providing a means to measure spin rate. What we did learn though is those pitchers with high spin rates tend to do better Throwing higher in the zone and those with lower spin rates tend to do better lower in the zone.

I knew this thread was coming soon enough!!

You're right, spin ultimately has relevance.  But your son is a sophomore in HS with plenty of velocity for his age/grade.  Focus on learning how to throw 3 pitches for strikes - he!!, even 2 for strikes would be '90th percentile!'

Colleges benches are full of over-tinkered-with hitters and pitchers.

Try to relax and have some fun for the next 3 years.

Have you read through the Driveline stuff on spin rate?  Interesting stuff.

The focus on spin rates is so new, and the technology is still really in it's infancy.  I think over the next few years we are going to learn a lot.

As Driveline mentions though, it's not just about the raw spin rate - but how effective that spin is.  As you noted, sometimes a lower spin rate can get the pitcher the desired result as well.

The problem is of course as they mention..." But there is a lot we don’t know. We don’t know how to increase a pitcher’s spin rate. We don’t know what factors change spin rate (besides splitters), be it grip, limb length, hand size, mechanics, etc."

In your case, I don't see that there is any harm in varying the grip and seeing what happens.  You may not be able to get a measurement of the spin, but you can see the movement.  If it gets the movement you seek, well - it's the right spin rate for you guys regardless of what a reading might say.

You would think moving off the seams would decrease friction and therefore spin rate, but at the same time it could change the angle of the spin and render it less effective.  I don't think there is any way to really predict what will happen.  You just have to go out there and try it.

WarEagle - Pitchers experiment with different grips and ways to create movement all the time. 

I don't think there are drills that he can do to improve spin rate but he can work to create more movement. 

I am sending contact through PM now. 

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

C'mon, you just tell the kid to throw strikes.

Works every time.

Rob T posted:

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

C'mon, you just tell the kid to throw strikes.

Works every time.

My wife seems to think so.

roothog66 posted:

Rob T posted:

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

C'mon, you just tell the kid to throw strikes.

Works every time.

My wife seems to think so.

Thought cloud - "Mom, what the heck do you think I was trying to do?"

hshuler posted:

roothog66 posted:

Rob T posted:

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

C'mon, you just tell the kid to throw strikes.

Works every time.

My wife seems to think so.

Thought cloud - "Mom, what the heck do you think I was trying to do?"

Hah! My kid hooked up early in the fall with a pretty well known team for a showcase. He started the game by walking the first two batters and the coach yells out at him, "You're overthrowing! Slow it down and just throw strikes." I'm thinking, "Coach, do you not see those 25 guys standing behind the backstop with radar guns? Those guns aren't for measuring accuracy."

"Coach, do you not see those 25 guys standing behind the backstop with radar guns? Those guns aren't for measuring accuracy."  

That has to win the award for most true and funny at the same time!  On my son's team the guy throwing gas (but not the most accurate) verbally committs this year. The most accurate pitcher gets selected for All Tourney All American.  

hshuler posted:

WarEagle - Pitchers experiment with different grips and ways to create movement all the time. 

I don't think there are drills that he can do to improve spin rate but he can work to create more movement. 

I am sending contact through PM now. 

Agree with Shu on this. Experiment. I know college camps are mostly about making money and recruiting but I will say as I have said before South Carolina does a nice job of giving quality instruction as well. And my son and I both agree that the breakout on grips at their pitching camp was 100% worth the cost of the camp. They went over a number of grips and the purpose behind them. But their strongest message was to experiment. That no two deliveries are exactly alike and different grips work for different guys. Don't get out in the cookie cutter. My son had the hardest time finding a change up grip. He took this advice to heart and messed with every stupid way of gripping the change he could think of. Finally he found one that has been nothing short of dominant for him. ~10mph difference and drops off the table to the point it almost resembles a splitter or true 12/6 curve. He has 4 different two seemers he throws. One of them with high speed camera we estimates to be around 1000rpm (insanely low). Easily gets the highest ground ball percentage on his team. It's not as sexy as 2900rpm and striking everybody out but he goes deep into games. 

My one question on dropping rpm - cause I agree easier to manipulate for low rpm than high - is will the scouts pay attention to this over the next few years. The technology is there and it is real. But baseball coaches have sometimes been slow to accept data. Favoring the 90mph guy with 2200 spin rate who will get rocked rather than the 85mph 1300 spin rate guy who will induce one ground ball after another. 

Some will say there is no snap of the wrist in a pitch. And if you think about it like holding your arm still and flicking your wrist I agree. But watch very carefully super slow motion and the wrist does aid in the pitch. I would  assume long fingers are an important factor for high rpm. But since there is little we can do about that stronger wrist and fingers are second best thing. The more that wrist can travel throughout the course of the pitch the more backspin. But your wrist and fingers will need a lot of strength to outrun the speed of your arm.  Tensile strength is another measurement that is becoming big. 

Sorry for the long post. Hope it is helpful!

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

Great question root. And great discussion here. Root I have always been of the mind that the same thing that increases velocity also increases command/control. Smooth and repeatable mechanics. I realize command connotes something a little different than control but I think it all comes down to repeatable mechanics and reps. Just don't think there is any shortcutting that. But if you find the way let me know!!

As for a couple comments that scouts aren't looking at spin rate. I don't think that is true. Some are. But as I mentioned I am concerned about how many. There is no doubt in my mind spin rate/effective spin rate will have an equal seat at the table just don't know how soon. The smart programs will be first in line. 

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Kyle, remember we had this conversation about a year ago. Thought of some ways to reduce spin rate but increasing it - a lot tougher. Have you guys come up with anything since then?

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Have you made a correlation study with finger length? Also the layback angle of the wrist/fingers compared to the forearm maybe? Or maybe how close you grip the ball toward the fingertips?

Obviously finger tip speed would have an influence but that is basically just arm speed, right?

Dominik85 posted:

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Have you made a correlation study with finger length? Also the layback angle of the wrist/fingers compared to the forearm maybe? Or maybe how close you grip the ball toward the fingertips?

 

Obviously finger tip speed would have an influence but that is basically just arm speed, right?

I would think fingertip speed that outruns arm speed would be a multiplier of velocity and a big boost to rpm. The question is how do you coach to that?  Is it just strength as I kind of intuitively figure?  Is it as you mention intentionally laying the wrist back as much as possible as the forearm starts its forward momentum?  That's seems intuitive to me. That's why I think strength there is important. Clearly we could have huge rpms if we just flicked the ball off fingers but of course no velocity. Trick is how can we get arm moving violently forward and still 'flick' the ball off our fingers as much as possible. Then is it possible to throw a two seemer or change without the flick?

to your pint though the fingertips begin behind the forearm and at release are in line with or ahead of forearm. So there is some degree of wrist snap though I know some on here don't like that thought. 

I know these aren't the clearest of shots. But you can obviously see the wrist is at a good angle to the forearm at forward momentum (for arm) and almost perfectly in line at release. So whatever you may want to term it to make sense of it there is clearly wrist snap. 

2020dad posted:

As for a couple comments that scouts aren't looking at spin rate. I don't think that is true. Some are. But as I mentioned I am concerned about how many. There is no doubt in my mind spin rate/effective spin rate will have an equal seat at the table just don't know how soon. The smart programs will be first in line. 

Area scouts aren't looking at spin rate, but they're reporting it to the front office - and they care very much. I've done draft work for a handful of teams and they all note it. I also receive phone calls and emails right around the draft on my draft-eligible trainees about Trackman data. 

2020dad posted:

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Kyle, remember we had this conversation about a year ago. Thought of some ways to reduce spin rate but increasing it - a lot tougher. Have you guys come up with anything since then?

Yes. It's somewhat complicated and not conclusive yet. Continuing to test things this off-season since we have a ton of pros in here.

Anyone who says they have the answer is definitely lying. Or way smarter than me. Which is totally possible.

Dominik85 posted:

Have you made a correlation study with finger length? Also the layback angle of the wrist/fingers compared to the forearm maybe? Or maybe how close you grip the ball toward the fingertips?

 

Obviously finger tip speed would have an influence but that is basically just arm speed, right?

No anatomical measurements across 100+ very good college pitchers (and some pros rehabbing) showed any correlation with spin rate in either direction.

"Layback angle" is a theory being tested now. Some good initial data on laxity seems to point in a decent enough direction that it's worth spending time on it.

Finger tip speed is closely related to arm speed but not the same. Not everyone with the same "arm speed" components (IR velocity and EE velocity, let's say) have the same resultant velocity at the wrist or even middle fingertip. There's a lot of reasons why, most are unknown.

Baseball is far from being solved when it comes to what actually creates velocity, spin, and command. It's a fun thing to research. Also very hard.

Kyle Boddy posted:

2020dad posted:

As for a couple comments that scouts aren't looking at spin rate. I don't think that is true. Some are. But as I mentioned I am concerned about how many. There is no doubt in my mind spin rate/effective spin rate will have an equal seat at the table just don't know how soon. The smart programs will be first in line. 

Area scouts aren't looking at spin rate, but they're reporting it to the front office - and they care very much. I've done draft work for a handful of teams and they all note it. I also receive phone calls and emails right around the draft on my draft-eligible trainees about Trackman data. 

I am hoping colleges get on this train within the next couple years!

2020dad posted:

Kyle Boddy posted:

2020dad posted:

As for a couple comments that scouts aren't looking at spin rate. I don't think that is true. Some are. But as I mentioned I am concerned about how many. There is no doubt in my mind spin rate/effective spin rate will have an equal seat at the table just don't know how soon. The smart programs will be first in line. 

Area scouts aren't looking at spin rate, but they're reporting it to the front office - and they care very much. I've done draft work for a handful of teams and they all note it. I also receive phone calls and emails right around the draft on my draft-eligible trainees about Trackman data. 

I am hoping colleges get on this train within the next couple years!

At least one is. They ask me for Trackman data all the time. A bunch of schools in the ACC are getting with it as well.

Kyle,

Is there a particular stat from the Trackman offerings that coaches are looking at? Besides Velo..

Scott Munroe posted:

Kyle,

Is there a particular stat from the Trackman offerings that coaches are looking at? Besides Velo..

Haha, you know them too well.

Spin rate and direction are two major things, as well as total movement of pitches. I hired a very intelligent kid from UNC who is 18 years old and runs an 8 person analytics team for the baseball team. They chop up Trackman data like you wouldn't believe. They have a lot of input on the field and in recruiting. UNC is becoming the most statistically-advanced college baseball team in the nation. 

Thank you Kyle! Glad to hear UNC is leading the way....one of the interesting things I am hearing about those teams that are using the benefits of modern technology is that they are realizing size of player should not be the only consideration when looking for talent. 

Kyle Boddy posted:

2020dad posted:

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Kyle, remember we had this conversation about a year ago. Thought of some ways to reduce spin rate but increasing it - a lot tougher. Have you guys come up with anything since then?

Yes. It's somewhat complicated and not conclusive yet. Continuing to test things this off-season since we have a ton of pros in here.

Anyone who says they have the answer is definitely lying. Or way smarter than me. Which is totally possible.

I do not think anyone solved it yet but would you publish it if you solved it? That information is worth a ton and if for example Dr buffi and the Dodgers solved it they would have a big incentive to keep it in house to keep the edge (at least for 1 to 2 seasons, then it would likely come out anyway.

Dominik85 posted:

I do not think anyone solved it yet but would you publish it if you solved it? That information is worth a ton and if for example Dr buffi and the Dodgers solved it they would have a big incentive to keep it in house to keep the edge (at least for 1 to 2 seasons, then it would likely come out anyway.

Yeah we'd publish it somehow. If it wasn't actionable information, we'd publish it openly. If it was actionable information and it was groundbreaking, we'd probably productize and charge for it. 

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

It is a good/serious question.  I don't know the answer really - our older son tells me that he ultimately moved into a reliever role in pro ball because he didn't have the same command that starters have.  Why couldn't he be trained to have more of it?

But a clue to the 'develop' part that may be worth something?  Our younger son, who has such good command that at times he has been coached in pro ball to throw pitches more out of the zone on purpose at times.  In his HS program (different from older son's and one of the best), nearly every bullpen came with a command and control "game."  PC would award points, hamburgers, milk shakes, whatever....to the pitchers for winning a 'game' of locating their pitches.  The program in general had high rewards for locating pitches in practices and games.  Pretty much a mindset, embedded in his brain.

Don't know if that is largely responsible?  Or maybe its just a skill not everyone has?  But I gotta believe that four HS years had more than a little impact on his command.

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

I was gonna say that, but didn't.  Still...its true.

2020dad posted:

Kyle Boddy posted:

We have Trackman and Rapsodo in our facility to measure spin rate and directionality. There's a lot more to spin rate than just the gross number. It's a fairly complicated topic and as people have noted, I've written a lot about it on my blog.

I'll tell you a good way to manipulate spin rate: Pine tar or firm grip. Give it a shot and measure it. Then report back

Kyle, remember we had this conversation about a year ago. Thought of some ways to reduce spin rate but increasing it - a lot tougher. Have you guys come up with anything since then?

I don't think the physics of producing spin are unknown, but rather how such physics get introduced into a pitching motion on a generic basis.  For instance, someone mentioned laying the wrist back and then advancing that joint (flicking) ahead of arm speed.  That should produce additional spin (assuming other things don't change).  Reality is that laying back the wrist further than one currently does will 99% of the time change other things in the delivery, for good or bad or simply different.  Its kind on like handing over a baseball and a couple 18 yo kids to a physicist and telling him to create the perfect pitching motion.  They will go to the drawing board and figure out the "angles" and come back and instruct the kids how to throw.  Some will be better than others as the mechanics will fit better, but the physicist is someone who can then tinker with these guys and improve their pitching by going against the optimum path that came from the drawing board.  I think if you delivered your kid to Kyle and asked for some additional RPM - while not backsliding on any other aspects such a MPH or command - Kyle could probably tweak based on this one individual.

2017LHP has some high spin.  He does have longer fingers and a fluid motion which I believe helps everything catch up (gives himself time for wrist and fingers to accelerate past the arm).  I have wondered about what Kyle said concerning pine tar or grip.  I have always wondered if professional pitchers have any type of "skin care" regiment when it comes to their hands.  2017LHP doesn't even go the his mouth in February when it is below 40 degrees and swears pitching in 40 degree weather is not much different from 80 degree weather when it comes to gripping the ball.  My fingertips are like a bowling ball when it gets down to 40.  I'm thinking a kid's natural skin "texture" (not exactly sure what term to use) may have some influence on pitching.  Think about some kid that maybe has a job swinging a hammer or simply loves BP and develops some tough skin.  Doesn't this tough skin simply have less stick to the ball and allow the ball to slip out just before the very ends of the fingertips impart that last bit of spin.  This is one of my little ideas that 2017LHP thinks is stupid and therefore doesn't concern himself with any skin care.

Lastly, has anyone read any good articles on the sequencing of moves in pitching?  This sounds good, but I get the impression that to perfectly line up the sequence and continue to line up that sequence as some moves speed up requires timing that cannot necessarily be taught.  Just think sequencing 1) trunk roation, 2) shoulder, 3) elbow, 4) wrist, and maybe 5) fingers.  1,2 and 3 are larger moves (of course #1 starts the sequence so no problem there), but as the arm accelerates, the window to perfectly time #4 and #5 gets extremely small.  I guess I am curios to see if anyone has put any measurements on this timing.

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

It is a good/serious question.  I don't know the answer really - our older son tells me that he ultimately moved into a reliever role in pro ball because he didn't have the same command that starters have.  Why couldn't he be trained to have more of it?

But a clue to the 'develop' part that may be worth something?  Our younger son, who has such good command that at times he has been coached in pro ball to throw pitches more out of the zone on purpose at times.  In his HS program (different from older son's and one of the best), nearly every bullpen came with a command and control "game."  PC would award points, hamburgers, milk shakes, whatever....to the pitchers for winning a 'game' of locating their pitches.  The program in general had high rewards for locating pitches in practices and games.  Pretty much a mindset, embedded in his brain.

Don't know if that is largely responsible?  Or maybe its just a skill not everyone has?  But I gotta believe that four HS years had more than a little impact on his command.

I think some element of command comes from the pitcher gaining a precise understanding their movements - maybe call it awareness.  My 2017LHP at some point starting talking about why an individual pitch did not end up where he wanted it.  I guess he developed some sort of feedback loop to where he didn't have to be told - which is good because the difference can be so small as to escape most observers.  He has decent control, but seems to have an excellent grasp of what occurred during any given pitch.  He may not be able to make the correction instantaneously, but eventually he'll start putting it where he wants.  Also helps when he is given instruction and potential changes and helps with the back and forth with the coach on what's working, what's not working and possibly why (is the change affecting other aspects where the net effect is negative).

2017LHPscrewball posted:

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

2 or 4 seam? I think a low spin 4 seamer is never good.

however I would not try to tinker with that yet and Focus on developing command and Velo.

So, a serious question because, after 35 years of coaching I still don't have an answer; how do you "develop" command?

It is a good/serious question.  I don't know the answer really - our older son tells me that he ultimately moved into a reliever role in pro ball because he didn't have the same command that starters have.  Why couldn't he be trained to have more of it?

But a clue to the 'develop' part that may be worth something?  Our younger son, who has such good command that at times he has been coached in pro ball to throw pitches more out of the zone on purpose at times.  In his HS program (different from older son's and one of the best), nearly every bullpen came with a command and control "game."  PC would award points, hamburgers, milk shakes, whatever....to the pitchers for winning a 'game' of locating their pitches.  The program in general had high rewards for locating pitches in practices and games.  Pretty much a mindset, embedded in his brain.

Don't know if that is largely responsible?  Or maybe its just a skill not everyone has?  But I gotta believe that four HS years had more than a little impact on his command.

I think some element of command comes from the pitcher gaining a precise understanding their movements - maybe call it awareness.  My 2017LHP at some point starting talking about why an individual pitch did not end up where he wanted it.  I guess he developed some sort of feedback loop to where he didn't have to be told - which is good because the difference can be so small as to escape most observers.  He has decent control, but seems to have an excellent grasp of what occurred during any given pitch.  He may not be able to make the correction instantaneously, but eventually he'll start putting it where he wants.  Also helps when he is given instruction and potential changes and helps with the back and forth with the coach on what's working, what's not working and possibly why (is the change affecting other aspects where the net effect is negative).

Scouts often refer to athletic ability when it comes to potential to learn command. Someone with better motor skills might have more potential to improve his command.

Great dialog.  Regarding command, we try to dumb things down for our HS staff and this correlates with many comments here.  

Work toward consistent mechanics.  Help them recognize the effect very slight changes in direction of the landing foot has (working inside/outside).  Help them recognize the effect of release point and bend in the finish (up/down).  Work on shrinking the targets.  Bullpens with location focus.  Bullpens with location competition.  Just wish I could afford burgers and shakes for every competition