Freshman Son Confused at D1 Mid-Major

I knew a player very well who "was your son". Had 20 ABs as a freshman and was All-American as a sophomore. In between was the hardest worker day in and day out. Many kids play little or none as freshman and then contribute big for two or three years. Until there is a tangible reason to not believe the coach, I'd take him at his word that he is glad your son is in the program and opportunities will come. Until then, work hard and be the best teammate.

@High Change Ups Go A Long Way posted:

I knew a player very well who "was your son". Had 20 ABs as a freshman and was All-American as a sophomore. In between was the hardest worker day in and day out. Many kids play little or none as freshman and then contribute big for two or three years. Until there is a tangible reason to not believe the coach, I'd take him at his word that he is glad your son is in the program and opportunities will come. Until then, work hard and be the best teammate.

Great advice from above. Coaches do plan on using true freshman in certain situations to get acclimated but often the situation doesn't arise. It also depends on how the season is going for the team.

His roster is set now for conference play and unless that SS gets hurt he won't be needed this season, obviously. And keep in mind coaches need to keep comments positive until final exit interviews.

That's not cut throat, IMO. If he had promised your son would start as a freshman, to keep him from not committing elsewhere, that's cut throat.

What I don't agree with is when a coach burns a players redshirt year with a few at bats or pitches on the mound. But to be honest most coaches only give RS status if player was hurt.

Hopefully the coach has made arrangements for him to play this summer.

@TPM posted:

Great advice from above. Coaches do plan on using true freshman in certain situations to get acclimated but often the situation doesn't arise. It also depends on how the season is going for the team.

His roster is set now for conference play and unless that SS gets hurt he won't be needed this season, obviously. And keep in mind coaches need to keep comments positive until final exit interviews.

That's not cut throat, IMO. If he had promised your son would start as a freshman, to keep him from not committing elsewhere, that's cut throat.

What I don't agree with is when a coach burns a players redshirt year with a few at bats or pitches on the mound. But to be honest most coaches only give RS status if player was hurt.

Hopefully the coach has made arrangements for him to play this summer.

Thanks for the information.  I do agree with burning the redshirt year.  I am a little frustrated they didn't offer that as an option as I hate to see him waste a whole year of eligibility for really no reason.  Anyway, I knew going in that play time would be very limited and I am by no means upset about that.  It's more about the seemingly opposite messaging he is getting between the actions and words from the coaches.  Thanks!

A few things

1. Sounds like he's on pace for about 15 ABs. That's about normal for a straight up backup. The only non starters who will really get meaningful ABs are matchup dependent starters, one time starters who lost their job, or somebody who filled in due to injury. The only non starters on our team with more than 10 ABs are the midweek catcher, and our 10/11 guys who play based on L/R matchups and DH spots. It seems like a waste, and it probably is, but it's pretty much on line.

2. Your son is at the age where these meetings with the coaches are supposed to be open dialogues not them talking at him. So when coach says we love you and you're going to get your opportunities then your son needs to say then why am I not traveling? How am I going to get opportunities when I am not attending half our games? Your son needs to determine whether the coach is being honest or is giving him the run around.

3. What do the stats say? Are the three infielders all hitting? You say they struggle. Did they struggle for a week or a month? What has your son done with his 6 ABs? Coming off the bench cold isn't great for success, but for a lot of the guys looking for more opportunities it's what you have to do.

4. I would say no more meetings. Exit meeting is the next time they talk about his role. The coach's actions do not back up his words, not traveling would indicate he's 28-35 on the roster. Not saying this to be rude, but that is not a good place to be. Let the season play out, have the exit meeting and it needs to be an honest discussion where your son pushes back on the BS. Determine whether he wants to stick it out or enter the portal and look for more playing time elsewhere.

TimeFlies,

Your son plays a very demanding position in a time when talented players are switching teams willy-nilly.  If your son likes it there then keep working hard to master what he is being asked to learn.   

The way I read your post was that your son was being groomed or given the opportunity to grow and be groomed.   In my mind there are two positions where a college HC has to feel most comfortable....catcher and shortstop...these are "security blanket positions".  Those two positions have to understand how the Coaches mind works during a game, and how the Coach wants things done...possibly your son just doesn't have that experience yet.   The other question that came to mind reading your post is about your son's hitting.   If your son demonstrates he is a strong and capable hitter then he should be able to break into that lineup and play anywhere as you mentioned.   You want to make a college coach happy and look good?  Give him a shortstop that can hit, field, and play any position.

I agree with HCUGALW that until there is a tangible reason to not believe the coach, I'd take him at his word.   If there becomes a tangible reason then that is a different discussion entirely.

JMO. Good luck!

Point of reference. My son was "loved" by the coaches that recruited him at his D3. Had a great fall. His team was pre-season top 10 in the spring and the team was pretty loaded. He got 8 ABs in the first 7 games, including getting pulled from a couple games after going 0 for 2 (DH). Didn't travel and ended up with 11 ABs for the season. The guys who played ahead of his at 1B and DH did their jobs, and I assume that the coaches didn't think he separated himself from those guys enough to go with the unproven newcomer. I was pissed, but I never let that leak into any of my interactions with him.

Sophomore year he started every game, slugged 585 and made first team all conference. No doubt in my mind that a couple of hard hit balls during those 8 ABs during freshman would have changed everything for that season. That's baseball.

My unsolicited advice for you is to do your best to keep your anxiety about it to yourself. Chances are, your son has this under control. He may be staying the course, or he may be thinking about leaving. Either way, he'll figure it out. Just support him and try to enjoy that he's a part of the team for now.

"Time flys"

as TPM states the "key" is the Summer League. Will the Coach select the League and team? A strong Summer team will provide the experience that will be needed by the player for his future College career. It is also a indication of his future as a SS.

Bob

@TimeFlies posted:

Thanks for the information.  I do agree with burning the redshirt year.  I am a little frustrated they didn't offer that as an option as I hate to see him waste a whole year of eligibility for really no reason.  Anyway, I knew going in that play time would be very limited and I am by no means upset about that.  It's more about the seemingly opposite messaging he is getting between the actions and words from the coaches.  Thanks!

That's usually not an option given to the player. Hopefully the NCAA will come up with a solution for this issue.

Good luck to your son and hang in there. Let us know how the season ends.

@Consultant posted:

"Time flys"

as TPM states the "key" is the Summer League. Will the Coach select the League and team? A strong Summer team will provide the experience that will be needed by the player for his future College career. It is also a indication of his future as a SS.

Bob

Bob,

He was assigned to a summer collegiate league late in the fall.  He will be playing in the Perfect Game Collegiate Baseball League in New York.  I hope it will be a good experience for him.

@TPM posted:

That's usually not an option given to the player. Hopefully the NCAA will come up with a solution for this issue.

Good luck to your son and hang in there. Let us know how the season ends.

From what I understand, the NCAA has worked on the football side regarding redshirting and now allows a maximum number of games and can still redshirt.

As it now stands, for NCAA baseball, 1 plate appearance or 1 pitch thrown (or any other game appearance) will burn the year of  participation.

...unless you can qualify for a medical waiver...

"Time flys"

It will be a interesting experience for your son. Will any of his teammates join him?

Is this a "wood bat" league? How many games each week?

Ask your son to list 5 areas for improvement of his skills.

Bob

@TimeFlies posted:

From what I understand, the NCAA has worked on the football side regarding redshirting and now allows a maximum number of games and can still redshirt.

@T_Thomas posted:

As it now stands, for NCAA baseball, 1 plate appearance or 1 pitch thrown (or any other game appearance) will burn the year of  participation.

...unless you can qualify for a medical waiver...

From what we’ve seen, when a kid transfers it is relatively easy for the new school to get the NCAA to retroactively grant that medical waiver on past seasons where a kid barely played.

@Consultant posted:

"Time flys"

It will be a interesting experience for your son. Will any of his teammates join him?

Is this a "wood bat" league? How many games each week?

Ask your son to list 5 areas for improvement of his skills.

Bob

Bob,

He will be playing on this team by himself, he had a teammate that was also going but is no longer with the program.

It is a wood bat league and they average 5-6 games per week.

I will take your advice and have him list out those areas for improvement.

Thanks!

How were his freshman fall semester grades? Is he far enough removed from future eligibility concerns? I don’t know where this starts for coaches. I’m guessing it depends of the perceived challenge of the school and major. 2.3 is required freshman year. Is he far enough away from this number?

@RJM posted:

How were his freshman fall semester grades? Is he far enough removed from future eligibility concerns? I don’t know where this starts for coaches. I’m guessing it depends of the perceived challenge of the school and major. 2.3 is required freshman year. Is he far enough away from this number?

Freshman fall grades were very good - 3.6.  So I don't think eligibility is an issue at all from that standpoint.  Thanks!

@Consultant posted:

"Time flys"

as TPM states the "key" is the Summer League. Will the Coach select the League and team? A strong Summer team will provide the experience that will be needed by the player for his future College career. It is also a indication of his future as a SS.

What is the benefit of the summer league? The coach is still being deceitful - his actions do not match his words. I would imagine somebody excluded from the travel roster would not be a priority summer placement.

Benefits of  a strong summer league is to rebuild the players confidence, learn from playing, develop new skills and exhibit to college scouts his tools. It will take only one Coach to admire his Skill.
Two months of summer league at 5 games weekly equals a College season.

Bob

@3and2Fastball posted:

From what we’ve seen, when a kid transfers it is relatively easy for the new school to get the NCAA to retroactively grant that medical waiver on past seasons where a kid barely played.

Interesting...is that related to the transfer?  A buddy of my son's pitched one inning early in his freshman year and then caught a bad case of Covid.  Sidelined a good month and never got back in.  Applied for a medical waiver (at same school) but no dice.

Bob

@TimeFlies posted:

Thanks for the information.  I do agree with burning the redshirt year.  I am a little frustrated they didn't offer that as an option as I hate to see him waste a whole year of eligibility for really no reason.  Anyway, I knew going in that play time would be very limited and I am by no means upset about that.  It's more about the seemingly opposite messaging he is getting between the actions and words from the coaches.  Thanks!

I agree with @TPM and @fenway

@TimeFlies posted:

Bob,

He was assigned to a summer collegiate league late in the fall.  He will be playing in the Perfect Game Collegiate Baseball League in New York.  I hope it will be a good experience for him.

@timeflies

https://csbn.news/2021/07/06/c...-10-csb-league-list/

Note, there might be other summer league rankings

My 2015 was told he was going to play some during the spring as well.  2015 didn't play for the first 25 games and he was frustrated to say the least!  He spoke with the HC and was told he will get an opportunity but would not commit to when.  I encouraged him to do the things that he can control like work hard to get better.   Game 26...... an opportunity to start in mid week game and 2015 did well enough to provide the HC confidence to give him  40AB by season's end.

My message to him was to work hard to be ready for the opportunity.  Freshman need to earn the confidence of the coaches and nothing is given. My 2015 may want the opportunity but the starter has earned the HC's confidence and my freshman 2015 had not earned the confidence yet.  Most players coming in as Freshman have to adjust to their role and understand they are not "the man" anymore. 

IMO the message should be work hard to earn the confidence of the coaching staff and an opportunity will come.  Just like in the business world not many recent college graduates are going to compete for the CEO positions their first year. Work hard to gain knowledge so one day you will gain the respect and confidence of the people rewarding the promotions! 

Just my thoughts!

@T_Thomas posted:

As it now stands, for NCAA baseball, 1 plate appearance or 1 pitch thrown (or any other game appearance) will burn the year of  participation.

...unless you can qualify for a medical waiver...

We had kids play and get red shirt status. We were told it was a certain date. I’m unclear.

How did son do in the ab's that he got?

@PitchingFan posted:

How did son do in the ab's that he got?

He had some good ABs, one K, one hit, couple groundouts, two lineouts.  If he would have went 5-6 with 3 HRs things probably would be different haha.  But the reality is he probably didnt show enough to warrant more ABs IMO. 

@PABaseball posted:

What is the benefit of the summer league? The coach is still being deceitful - his actions do not match his words. I would imagine somebody excluded from the travel roster would not be a priority summer placement.

Totally disagree.  Someone that doesn't get the playing time during the season really needs a summer team to hone their skills!  After freshman year, the team/league really doesn't matter as much as playing time. I am glad he already has a place to play.

@keewart posted:

Totally disagree.  Someone that doesn't get the playing time during the season really needs a summer team to hone their skills!  After freshman year, the team/league really doesn't matter as much as playing time. I am glad he already has a place to play.

I did not say he didn't need a summer league. The summer league would be very valuable - he needs reps.

I'm not sure what the benefit of the summer league is to his current situation. It doesn't address the issue of the coach not being upfront and honest about the players role. I believe that is a bigger issue than him not getting enough reps.

Guys 28-35 on the roster are not typically priority summer league placements. Who is going to the Top 10 summer league? The everyday starter or the non traveler? In the vast majority of competitive programs players 28-35 are the players who are not in prime position to become contributors. They're typically walk ons, injuries, or guys who are no longer anticipated to be part of the program long term.

How many non travelers are with the program the following year? How many non travelers end up becoming everyday starters the following year? These aren't digs at TimeFlies either - the situation speaks for itself.

Every non traveler in the past two years at our program is no longer with our program with the exception of one who has pitched 3 innings this season.

@PABaseball posted:

I did not say he didn't need a summer league. The summer league would be very valuable - he needs reps.

I'm not sure what the benefit of the summer league is to his current situation. It doesn't address the issue of the coach not being upfront and honest about the players role. I believe that is a bigger issue than him not getting enough reps.

Guys 28-35 on the roster are not typically priority summer league placements. Who is going to the Top 10 summer league? The everyday starter or the non traveler? In the vast majority of competitive programs players 28-35 are the players who are not in prime position to become contributors. They're typically walk ons, injuries, or guys who are no longer anticipated to be part of the program long term.

How many non travelers are with the program the following year? How many non travelers end up becoming everyday starters the following year? These aren't digs at TimeFlies either - the situation speaks for itself.

Every non traveler in the past two years at our program is no longer with our program with the exception of one who has pitched 3 innings this season.

Lots of good information from everyone and I really appreciate all the feedback.  Right now we are waiting for exit meetings and I fully expect him to not keep his baseball scholarship.  Son is already thinking and planning on what he wants to do next depending on the outcome of the exit meetings.

My biggest question/complaint is how the coaches would literally lie face to face with a kid who is working his butt off and continuing to be a great teammate and only wants honest feedback.  I couldnt do it and be able to sleep at night. 

I want to be very clear I am not at all upset with playtime or opportunities - I understand the process.  We used this site for tons of recruiting information etc so nothing is a surprise except for the seemingly lying that is going on.  But, as others have said, maybe the coach is being truthful - I guess we will know in a few short weeks!

As far as summer plans - if he is "cut", would it still be worth playing in the summer league without having the College affiliation?  I fear the summer team coach would not have as much vested to give him innings, etc.

@TimeFlies posted:

Lots of good information from everyone and I really appreciate all the feedback.  Right now we are waiting for exit meetings and I fully expect him to not keep his baseball scholarship.  Son is already thinking and planning on what he wants to do next depending on the outcome of the exit meetings.

My biggest question/complaint is how the coaches would literally lie face to face with a kid who is working his butt off and continuing to be a great teammate and only wants honest feedback.  I couldnt do it and be able to sleep at night.

I want to be very clear I am not at all upset with playtime or opportunities - I understand the process.  We used this site for tons of recruiting information etc so nothing is a surprise except for the seemingly lying that is going on.  But, as others have said, maybe the coach is being truthful - I guess we will know in a few short weeks!

As far as summer plans - if he is "cut", would it still be worth playing in the summer league without having the College affiliation?  I fear the summer team coach would not have as much vested to give him innings, etc.

@timeflies

Here is my take, it is only worth a cup of tea, I don't like coffee.

Regardless of what has happened in the past, consider the collegiate summer league as a internship.

Based on what league your son has been place can give you a sense of the potential commitment the coach has to your son.

Is it a internship to flip burgers at McDonalds or an Accounting firm (assuming it is your son's major).

He should not take off, he needs to go mash the ball and play stellar defense.

The family should do a cost benefit analysis of the league, if you don't like said league, maybe he can be upgraded.

Don't take your proverbial ball home, remember there are college coaches that might be attending these games, looking for that gem.

Also remember the impact of the MLB Draft, as for it can change the situation for any college.

If the family feels the situation will not change, start looking for options.  Note, I'm seeing more 4 yr coaches getting players from JUCO.

*Remember, the 2020 and 2021 seasons for a JUCO players were exempted.

Thus a high school player will be competing with a JUCO (Potential 2 yrs older with college experience)

Connors State Alumni at 4 yr schools.  Note, we are in the middle of reconciling NAIA then NCAA-D3

@timeflies,

You have a private messages.

OP, I'm willing to bet that you are wrong.  I bet he has a good exit meeting and his scholarship will still be there.  They will say get better at hitting have fun this summer and play hard.  Look forward to seeing you this fall.  Just because you do not play as a freshman does not mean you are going to be cut.  Our team only has 2 freshman studs pitching,  That is the only true freshmen getting any significant time other than a few at bats from 2 other guys but very little to no time in the field and one reliever getting minimal innings.  But I bet we have 10 hearing exactly what your son is hearing and will be keeping their scholarships and coming back next fall unless they choose to go somewhere else.  Getting to play as a freshman in D1 is hard.  Be supportive and I say this with myself in mind, not accusing you of anything, don't be part of the problem.  You have to decide if that is the case or not for you.  Remember every player on the team was a star in HS and travel ball.  We have a kid who turned down 2-3 round money to come and is not seeing the field or batting very much.

@PitchingFan posted:

OP, I'm willing to bet that you are wrong.  I bet he has a good exit meeting and his scholarship will still be there.  They will say get better at hitting have fun this summer and play hard.  Look forward to seeing you this fall.  Just because you do not play as a freshman does not mean you are going to be cut.  Our team only has 2 freshman studs pitching,  That is the only true freshmen getting any significant time other than a few at bats from 2 other guys but very little to no time in the field and one reliever getting minimal innings.  But I bet we have 10 hearing exactly what your son is hearing and will be keeping their scholarships and coming back next fall unless they choose to go somewhere else.  Getting to play as a freshman in D1 is hard.  Be supportive and I say this with myself in mind, not accusing you of anything, don't be part of the problem.  You have to decide if that is the case or not for you.  Remember every player on the team was a star in HS and travel ball.  We have a kid who turned down 2-3 round money to come and is not seeing the field or batting very much.

Agree 100%

This is very true at every level in college baseball. 

@PitchingFan posted:

OP, I'm willing to bet that you are wrong.  I bet he has a good exit meeting and his scholarship will still be there.  They will say get better at hitting have fun this summer and play hard.  Look forward to seeing you this fall.  Just because you do not play as a freshman does not mean you are going to be cut.  Our team only has 2 freshman studs pitching,  That is the only true freshmen getting any significant time other than a few at bats from 2 other guys but very little to no time in the field and one reliever getting minimal innings.  But I bet we have 10 hearing exactly what your son is hearing and will be keeping their scholarships and coming back next fall unless they choose to go somewhere else.  Getting to play as a freshman in D1 is hard.  Be supportive and I say this with myself in mind, not accusing you of anything, don't be part of the problem.  You have to decide if that is the case or not for you.  Remember every player on the team was a star in HS and travel ball.  We have a kid who turned down 2-3 round money to come and is not seeing the field or batting very much.

I am hoping the same as he enjoys the school and enjoys being on the team!  I want to clarify that we (my wife and I) continue speaking encouragement to him and we still watch every game and support the team as well.  My advice to him is to keep working hard and be a great teammate no matter what.  Thanks for the feedback and I will keep everyone posted throughout the next few weeks!

Very good.  Never meant to insinuate anything.  I just know for me sometimes I'm not always part of the solution with my kids because I get frustrated and want them to play more just like them.  My youngest is an important part of the #1 team in the nation but he and I wish he threw more but fully understand his role and why they hold him at times rather than pitch him early.    They have said over and over that they trust him if they ever get in trouble that he is going to make guys swing a bat so they hold him to the end and sometimes he never gets a chance.  Part of being a bullpen guy.  But he said last weekend when I might have been a little frustrated and trying to be positive with/for him.  I'm a part of something special and have my role.  We are winning and I play a role in that every weekend whether I'm in the game or in the bullpen ready to go in the game.  He had been in the bullpen for 6 innings on Friday night and 7 on Saturday.  My response.  Just always keep that in the forefront of your mind.  Enjoy the ride which has been incredible.

@PitchingFan posted:

OP, I'm willing to bet that you are wrong.  I bet he has a good exit meeting and his scholarship will still be there.  They will say get better at hitting have fun this summer and play hard.  Look forward to seeing you this fall.  Just because you do not play as a freshman does not mean you are going to be cut.  Our team only has 2 freshman studs pitching,  That is the only true freshmen getting any significant time other than a few at bats from 2 other guys but very little to no time in the field and one reliever getting minimal innings.  But I bet we have 10 hearing exactly what your son is hearing and will be keeping their scholarships and coming back next fall unless they choose to go somewhere else.  Getting to play as a freshman in D1 is hard.  Be supportive and I say this with myself in mind, not accusing you of anything, don't be part of the problem.  You have to decide if that is the case or not for you.  Remember every player on the team was a star in HS and travel ball.  We have a kid who turned down 2-3 round money to come and is not seeing the field or batting very much.

I think this is true a lot of places. We have multiple guys who turned down money and aren’t getting playtime.  The rub for me is the string of Grad transfers. I can get past the extra year everyone got (sucks but ok), but 5th year guys that were starters, entering the program for one year instead of developing the guys in the program is bs to me.  I do put that on coaches.  You make a commitment to guys and most of them are much less likely to go back on it than the coaches.

@baseballhs posted:

I think this is true a lot of places. We have multiple guys who turned down money and aren’t getting playtime.  The rub for me is the string of Grad transfers. I can get past the extra year everyone got (sucks but ok), but 5th year guys that were starters, entering the program for one year instead of developing the guys in the program is bs to me.  I do put that on coaches.  You make a commitment to guys and most of them are much less likely to go back on it than the coaches.

There are some programs that are good at developing younger players in the program. But IMO there aren’t very many. It takes time, energy, knowledge & desire to help young players get better. It’s much easier and a lot less work to go look in the transfer portal.

Adbono

Development of a young player involves a "plan" and the skilled Coaches.

The "portal" does NOT have a "profile" or Scouting REPORT for the prospective player. As you have experienced the best "development Coaches are at the JC's.

"Self development" involves selecting a strong Summer Team.

"Play me or Trade me"!!!

Bob

My only question in TimeFlies equation is why is a kid perceived to be the next shortstop not traveling with the team as a backup? He’s probably talented enough to backup a few infield positions, pinch hit or pinch run.

I’m not saying he’s not good enough. But as a player I would be analyzing this scenario.

@adbono posted:

There are some programs that are good at developing younger players in the program. But IMO there aren’t very many. It takes time, energy, knowledge & desire to help young players get better. It’s much easier and a lot less work to go look in the transfer portal.

And to me that’s not a coach, it’s a manager.

I think you have to have a mix of in house talent you mature and transfers. We have both but no grad transfers.  Had a catcher grad transfer last year.  We have freshman that are playing, Friday and Sunday starters, transfer portal player who is Saturday starter. But we also have starting second base, shortstop, and third base that are juniors who stayed with the program and are now getting rewarded and two of those are top 150 draft guys for this year.   We have six year guy at first and fifth year guy who was hoping to get drafted last year but did not and transformed himself into a pitcher from an outfielder and now is considered a draft prospect. Then you have kids like my son who have contributed all three years.   It helps to have a good mix of recorded guys, portal transfers, and juco transfers,