smokeminside posted:

 I think you mayb have more time for a pitcher.

If you wish, PM me with some details like who’s looking at him now, what his grades are like, and his test scores and I might be able to give you more  accurate information. Knowing the event he was at might help too. 

Thanks, I will PM when I get on a computer, as it doesn't seem to work on my iPad.

smokeminside posted:

I have the same hunch about that event.  it just seems too late in the summer to matter For a position player. Sure tempting though with That lineup of the coaches there. 

Spot on, Smoke. My son had an Ivy RC tell him about a month ago (when discussing summer schedules) that the early August date didn't work with that school's timeframe (for rising seniors).

2019Dad posted:
smokeminside posted:

I have the same hunch about that event.  it just seems too late in the summer to matter For a position player. Sure tempting though with That lineup of the coaches there. 

Spot on, Smoke. My son had an Ivy RC tell him about a month ago (when discussing summer schedules) that the early August date didn't work with that school's timeframe (for rising seniors).

Would y'all say the same applies to pitchers?  I mean, yes position players have a tougher road when it comes to timing, but would you say early August at HF or Showball before senior year is too late for a pitcher to get interest from Ivies or other HA D1s?  How about HA D3s?  (My son's a 2020--just thinking about next year.)

For reference:

Penn has 6 2019 "commitments" on PG.  Typically Ivy and high academic D3 commits do not always announce on PG as well.  So that means AT LEAST 6 (and 3 are P).  And they also have a 2020 already committed.  You all can look up the other Ivies, who may have fewer listed but probably more than those listed as well.

Also, I remember a prominent high academic D3 school told my son his rising senior year at HF -- we really liked you when we saw you at Stanford last year but you never seemed all that interested in us and we moved on.  This is why high academic kids need to cast a wide net, early, just my two cents or so.

*** from when I wrote this yesterday Penn added another and is now up to 7!!

 

 

Last edited by Twoboys
JYNY posted:
Gov posted:

Same experience when we went to the Head Coach Showball Camp late July last year. 

  • Princeton: was still looking for lefty hitting MIF's, and another LHP
  • Yale: Frawley had offered a MIF who the RC had seen a lot right before the event, were still looking for another RHP
  • Harvard: indications were they were still looking, and son was going to their August camp as a follow up the HC Showball to see if he could clinch a MIF spot. Shortly after we signed up for the camp, the RC said if they wanted to, they would have stopped recruiting in the spring for the 2018 class.  They liked what they had seen from New England candidates in the spring) This statement caused me to pull back from their Camp, and have a heart to heart with 2018 and step up D3's.  I ate the 595.00 camp cost... oh well.  Surprisingly, son moved on quickly.
  • Columbia: Boretti stated clearly he was looking for another position player who had a big bat. Son was not that guy after the Showball HC Camp.  Boretti had talked to my son extensively, and acted like he didn't even know him. Kind of shitty, but it's how it goes.
  • Brown: they've been looking for P's every year all the way to ED deadline
  • Penn: same as Brown
  • Dartmouth: same as above Brown
  • Cornell: absolutely clueless with where they were, son didn't care

You guys might recall my comments last year shortly after all of this:  if you are a position player with academic chops and are determined on an Ivy, you have to get on their front porch - their specific camps which are from July - Sept, your incoming JUNIOR YEAR.  There's always GTown, W&M, Holy Cross, and several other relationship high academic D3's with that Ivy.

If you are a P, took the ACT early and rung in a solid number, if they like you as a P, they will try to recruit you over the winter of your Junior year.  The Ivy coaches will use your strong resulting Academic Index to help recruit other players. (Strong P with a 33-35 ACT to recruit a C with a 29 ACT, especially with HPY).

 The IVY Head Coach Camps are great for incoming Juniors!!  I wouldn't have thought this last year... Concur AD2018

How did you get all this info?  Your son talking to all the coaches or are you that parent?

Great advice, I need to find out more detail about their front porches this summer.

 

Ha.  Son talked with almost all of the Ivy coaches actively in July while at two Showball Camps, then a few parents I met while at those same camps compared Intel our son's were gathering, as well knowing few parents whose kids play at a few of those Ivy's.  Former Air Force Officer - Intel gatherer.

DiamondsRmomsBF posted:

So rising Jr is too early for serious interest from even D1s at Headfirst? (e.g., Ivies, Patriot League). 

It's not too early to get interest from D1 eg. Ivies and Patriot.  They see you in the summer and follow you in fall, eg. AZ Fall Classics and other fall tournaments/showcases, and may make an offer in Winter/Spring.  Kids get offers by Patriot League and Ivy's in their Junior year b/c they were seen at HF as a Jr.

Concur: for academic D1's they're searching for last few incoming seniors, and developing their watch list for incoming juniors.  If they see an absolute stud incoming junior they will be all over it.  As a position player you'd have to have a massive bat to get noticed at a larger venue camp like HF or SB, helpful to also attend one of their specific two day college camps so you can gets tons of reps in front of all the coaches.

Basic question about HF in NY:  Do they show pitchers' velos in any way that is visible to spectators and/or make velo info available in writing afterwards?  Trying to decide whether to try to take my old eBay radar gun on the plane with me--would be happy to leave it at home.

Chico Escuela posted:

Basic question about HF in NY:  Do they show pitchers' velos in any way that is visible to spectators and/or make velo info available in writing afterwards?  Trying to decide whether to try to take my old eBay radar gun on the plane with me--would be happy to leave it at home.

Not sure about NY, but in CA they did not make velo visible to spectators or report it to the players. However, they did deliver a "scouting report" to the coaches, which included velo.

That said, there are a lot of coaches with Stalkers there, so it's not too hard to see how hard a pitcher is throwing.

Chico Escuela posted:

Basic question about HF in NY:  Do they show pitchers' velos in any way that is visible to spectators and/or make velo info available in writing afterwards?  Trying to decide whether to try to take my old eBay radar gun on the plane with me--would be happy to leave it at home.

Last year at the HF Showcase in NY that my son attended, they did not show pitcher's velocities.  

AD2018 posted:
smokeminside posted:

For those contemplating the Showcase circuit, my 2019 just finished attending HF and SB events in California. My humble takeaways and observations:

Sacramento Headfirst was busy, full of talks, and longish ones for how hot it was.  Talks were helpful but more about keep trying, don't give up, blah, blah, blah.  My son is over those, wants to just get to work.  The video stuff HF now offers we ignored.  By this point for a rising senior interested in d3, the coaches want to see the kids in person.  If contacts with videos haven't already been made by now, in my opinion, new video for a 2019 isn't going to help much.  2020 could be an entirely different matter, but if you're already filming your kid, and you or they can handle imovie, you can make your own video.  HF Showcase the first morning included throwing velo, 60, fielding exhibition, BP round, and hitting velo off a T, all watched by all Coaches.  Then one game in the afternoon of the first day, and two games on the second day. (Prior years each kid had four games: exhausting by end of second day).  Time in between games to walk around and seek out coaches.  Hardest part of event was getting son to approach coaches.  Fun times HS kid turns into monk who's taken a vow of silence.  Unreal.

Showball: very fast paced format.  Showcase like HF (and probably every other event) in the morning and early afternoon of first day, followed by a half hour where there's a meet and greet with HC's.  This worked way better for son than HF approach because EVERYONE was doing the same thing at the same time.  Would have helped if it had been a little longer period of time, but son got to meet the coaches he wanted to meet and reinforce his interest.  They were polite, or super encouraging depending on school, and all coaches he talked to said they'd make sure they watched him the next day.  Day 2 had two games, with a couple hours between. relaxed but fast paced format.  Stunningly beautiful day.  75-80, no clouds, nice, cooling breeze. Coaches umpired as they did at HF.  Half as many coaches at Showball, but all HC's.  Can talk to them if you're assertive, but not as easy as the meet and greet format. Good mix of Ivy's and "high" academic d3s.

Both events had batters start 1-1, and if you walk on the first aB you're supposed to only get fastballs after that.

Twice as many coaches at HF as at Showball, but the Showball event had a much higher proportion of high academic schools.  Frustrating that you can't get all the ivies in one place in the early summer.  I'm not sure what spots will be left in August when they do all meet together for a showcase in SoCal.

Son's clear favorite was Showball, but he hit better there, so take that for what it's worth.   Happy to try to answer any questions.

PS, old adage here that you will know when they're interested is a cliche but completely accurate.  Six UVs initiated by coaches, all D3. (Send us your transcripts, scores, we want to do a pre read asap and get you on campus, etc. etc.).  No D1 conversation other than son saying, "Hi, my name is Mickey Mantle. Watch me run."  D1 Coaches: "Nice to meet you.  Good luck."

My 2018 did the Quakes--Ivy showcase in So Cal last year after doing HF.  He was eagerly looking forward to playing in front of all the Ivy coaches...but came away very disappointed when he learned that most of the Ivies were all done with their 2018 recruiting.  The Ivies were looking for a final pitching piece here or there...and to me, it felt more like the coaches were on a vacation than a serious recruiting event...especially since most of the kids were 2018s.  

 

Gov posted:
JYNY posted:
Gov posted:

Same experience when we went to the Head Coach Showball Camp late July last year. 

  • Princeton: was still looking for lefty hitting MIF's, and another LHP
  • Yale: Frawley had offered a MIF who the RC had seen a lot right before the event, were still looking for another RHP
  • Harvard: indications were they were still looking, and son was going to their August camp as a follow up the HC Showball to see if he could clinch a MIF spot. Shortly after we signed up for the camp, the RC said if they wanted to, they would have stopped recruiting in the spring for the 2018 class.  They liked what they had seen from New England candidates in the spring) This statement caused me to pull back from their Camp, and have a heart to heart with 2018 and step up D3's.  I ate the 595.00 camp cost... oh well.  Surprisingly, son moved on quickly.
  • Columbia: Boretti stated clearly he was looking for another position player who had a big bat. Son was not that guy after the Showball HC Camp.  Boretti had talked to my son extensively, and acted like he didn't even know him. Kind of shitty, but it's how it goes.
  • Brown: they've been looking for P's every year all the way to ED deadline
  • Penn: same as Brown
  • Dartmouth: same as above Brown
  • Cornell: absolutely clueless with where they were, son didn't care

You guys might recall my comments last year shortly after all of this:  if you are a position player with academic chops and are determined on an Ivy, you have to get on their front porch - their specific camps which are from July - Sept, your incoming JUNIOR YEAR.  There's always GTown, W&M, Holy Cross, and several other relationship high academic D3's with that Ivy.

If you are a P, took the ACT early and rung in a solid number, if they like you as a P, they will try to recruit you over the winter of your Junior year.  The Ivy coaches will use your strong resulting Academic Index to help recruit other players. (Strong P with a 33-35 ACT to recruit a C with a 29 ACT, especially with HPY).

 The IVY Head Coach Camps are great for incoming Juniors!!  I wouldn't have thought this last year... Concur AD2018

How did you get all this info?  Your son talking to all the coaches or are you that parent?

Great advice, I need to find out more detail about their front porches this summer.

 

Ha.  Son talked with almost all of the Ivy coaches actively in July while at two Showball Camps, then a few parents I met while at those same camps compared Intel our son's were gathering, as well knowing few parents whose kids play at a few of those Ivy's.  Former Air Force Officer - Intel gatherer.

 

Mom2, happy to try to help, especially since I made the original post on this thread in an attempt to offer a comparison of the two events.

Can you be more specific about what you’d like to see compared? 

mom2baseballplayer posted:

How does Showball compare to Headfirst?

My son attended Showball (SB) last summer. It definitely worked out for him. The reason he attended Showball vs. HF is because SB's event included ONLY head coaches--and it included the head coaches of ALL eight Ivy schools.

The majority of SB's events are "Head Coach" (HC) events; it looks like there are two out of seven in 2020 which will not be HC events.

I don't believe there are any HF events which claim ONLY HC's.

I've heard that HF camps are a tad bit more organized but I don't have any experience with them so I can't comment. A HF camp was going on at the same exact time as the SB camp my son attended last summer and it was just up the road (Medford, NY). Unfortunately the weather didn't cooperate but I think SB did a fantastic job getting the entire showcase completed given the weather. We were satisfied at least. The games were rushed but that was to be expected in order to get everyone seen by the coaches. The HF camp up the road included coaches (mostly assistant volunteers) from just about the same schools represented in the SB event.  I'm guessing the HC's and their assistants traveled together to the events.

I'm also pretty sure there is either a report or video (or both) sent out to attendees of the HF camp (plus I guess they'll be using new technology this year which I presume will be included in their reports). I'm guessing SB will claim it doesn't need to provide any output/feedback because the HC's are there to witness the players themselves.

Let me know if you need any more specific info on the SB camp. My son's friend attended the HF camp up the road so he provided some feedback to us.

ABSORBER posted:
mom2baseballplayer posted:

How does Showball compare to Headfirst?

My son attended Showball (SB) last summer. It definitely worked out for him. The reason he attended Showball vs. HF is because SB's event included ONLY head coaches--and it included the head coaches of ALL eight Ivy schools.

The majority of SB's events are "Head Coach" (HC) events; it looks like there are two out of seven in 2020 which will not be HC events.

I don't believe there are any HF events which claim ONLY HC's.

I've heard that HF camps are a tad bit more organized but I don't have any experience with them so I can't comment. A HF camp was going on at the same exact time as the SB camp my son attended last summer and it was just up the road (Medford, NY). Unfortunately the weather didn't cooperate but I think SB did a fantastic job getting the entire showcase completed given the weather. We were satisfied at least. The games were rushed but that was to be expected in order to get everyone seen by the coaches. The HF camp up the road included coaches (mostly assistant volunteers) from just about the same schools represented in the SB event.  I'm guessing the HC's and their assistants traveled together to the events.

I'm also pretty sure there is either a report or video (or both) sent out to attendees of the HF camp (plus I guess they'll be using new technology this year which I presume will be included in their reports). I'm guessing SB will claim it doesn't need to provide any output/feedback because the HC's are there to witness the players themselves.

Let me know if you need any more specific info on the SB camp. My son's friend attended the HF camp up the road so he provided some feedback to us.

Could you PM me? Would love more info. What was the date of the SB event your son attended? Could you share some of the results/coaches who expressed actual interest after SB? Is your son a senior now? I saw that a couple of SB and HF overall in 2020. Would love more feedback from you. And your son’s friend!

mom2baseballplayer posted:

Which Quakes showcase did your son attend? The pre-summer one in May or the one later in the summer?

Son attended the one later in the summer.  All the Ivy coaches (+ Notre Dame) were there.  Problem was that most of the kids were rising seniors and the coaches were for the most part done looking at rising seniors.  Cornell coach admitted that they were done with their 2018 class.  Would have been great if you were a rising junior.  Net-net the summer Quakes was too late for most rising seniors.

mom2baseballplayer posted:
ABSORBER posted:
mom2baseballplayer posted:

How does Showball compare to Headfirst?

My son attended Showball (SB) last summer. It definitely worked out for him. The reason he attended Showball vs. HF is because SB's event included ONLY head coaches--and it included the head coaches of ALL eight Ivy schools.

The majority of SB's events are "Head Coach" (HC) events; it looks like there are two out of seven in 2020 which will not be HC events.

I don't believe there are any HF events which claim ONLY HC's.

I've heard that HF camps are a tad bit more organized but I don't have any experience with them so I can't comment. A HF camp was going on at the same exact time as the SB camp my son attended last summer and it was just up the road (Medford, NY). Unfortunately the weather didn't cooperate but I think SB did a fantastic job getting the entire showcase completed given the weather. We were satisfied at least. The games were rushed but that was to be expected in order to get everyone seen by the coaches. The HF camp up the road included coaches (mostly assistant volunteers) from just about the same schools represented in the SB event.  I'm guessing the HC's and their assistants traveled together to the events.

I'm also pretty sure there is either a report or video (or both) sent out to attendees of the HF camp (plus I guess they'll be using new technology this year which I presume will be included in their reports). I'm guessing SB will claim it doesn't need to provide any output/feedback because the HC's are there to witness the players themselves.

Let me know if you need any more specific info on the SB camp. My son's friend attended the HF camp up the road so he provided some feedback to us.

Could you PM me? Would love more info. What was the date of the SB event your son attended? Could you share some of the results/coaches who expressed actual interest after SB? Is your son a senior now? I saw that a couple of SB and HF overall in 2020. Would love more feedback from you. And your son’s friend!

Sent you a PM, for everyone else who may be interested I'll summarize:

1. Recruiting is needs-based first and foremost. If they don't need your position it doesn't matter what kind of player you are.

2. Assistant coaches do NOT have the same pull as head coaches. Of course programs differ but when the HC is using his position to secure a slot for you at a high academic institution I would be willing to bet he wants to see you firsthand before he sticks his neck out for you.

3. Timing is important. My personal belief if you need to be seen by Ivy coaches before your junior year and then again before your senior year if you don't have an offer. The earlier you are seen the more leeway they have your you academic index. Of course it depends on #1 above. If your position is their #1 need they definitely have more leeway and can recruit other players later who have higher AI's. If you are looking at D3 then I think you can wait to do HA camps until summer after junior year--although I would recommend EARLY summer...

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